Difficulty recruiting

[Florida Radonc]

Our group is a private group in Tampa, FL. We are recruting but have had struggle attracting candidates. It used to be that we would post jobs on the ASTRO board and get tons of applicants, now we struggle to get any. We are a private group that is lifestyle friendly (4 days per week) and partnership track. It appears most applicants these days prefer employed jobs at academic health systems. Where do physicians go these days to apply for jobs, if they're not using the ASTRO board? Thanks for your advice.

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[UndecidedMS2]

Are you offering solid compensation? If the offer is $300k for 3 years with the hope of getting partnership and making double that in like 10 years… I can tell you the issue isn’t where you’re posting it!

 

[drowsy12]

Are you offering solid compensation? If the offer is $300k for 3 years with the hope of getting partnership and making double that in like 10 years… I can tell you the issue isn’t where you’re posting it!

Agree but I wonder if people are not even applying to find out, which may be what OP is suggesting

I will say that a lot of my peers (grads in last 5-8 years) are leery of true PP postings as there’s so much shadiness out there and large systems are less risky and more reliable.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Our group is a private group in Tampa, FL. We are recruting but have had struggle attracting candidates. It used to be that we would post jobs on the ASTRO board and get tons of applicants, now we struggle to get any. We are a private group that is lifestyle friendly (4 days per week) and partnership track. It appears most applicants these days prefer employed jobs at academic health systems. Where do physicians go these days to apply for jobs, if they're not using the ASTRO board? Thanks for your advice.

I can only speak for myself, so maybe I'm way off base, but:

I'm in the Northeast, the land of the snowbirds. I have family that chose to move to Florida and many of my patients do the 6 months north/6 months Florida lifestyle.

Or, at least, they used to. All I've heard about for the past year or two are the INSANE homeowners insurance issues happening in Florida. Family members have had their rates triple. Some people I've talked to can't even find a company willing to offer a policy. I've seen people move back north permanently because of it.

Second, Florida has always had a certain...reputation. Certainly in Radiation Oncology, all of our most salacious "events" seems to come out of that state. At this point, it feels like EVERYONE is leery of practicing Radiation Oncology in Florida. The "safe havens" are perceived to be the academic systems (Moffitt, UF, Miami, Mayo Jax).

"Florida Private Practice Radiation Oncology" was personally something I never even had on my "potential job search" list.

Third, while Florida has always been perceived on the national stage in a...certain light ("Florida Man"), since the pandemic (and Mar-a-Lago, and Epstein, etc), the state has...well, it's certainly unique. I know that influences things as well.

Fourth, as was mentioned above...the $300k/3 years to partner thing DOES NOT FLY anymore. That's the same deal that was offered a decade ago, and it feels like the practices offering this package forgot that there was such a thing as inflation.

My previous job had that package, and I knew it was a trade-off I had to make in favor of geography. But my preferred geography is fairly difficult for Radiation Oncology.

Tampa? Tampa is not exactly a linac desert. There are options. I know the ballpark of Moffitt's starting package and to a new grad, or someone with experience who would have to "start over" at a new place...the $300k/3 years will not fly anymore.

Finally: how's the reputation of your group? Any of your members been in the news recently, local or national? The name of your practice? Been associated with anything negative?

It's A LOT easier in the internet age to quickly find "dirt". The first thing I do, looking at a job posting, is Google search the practice name and see what comes up. Then the names of the group members.

What comes up when you do that with your practice?

 

[thecarbonionangle]

i am reminded of the best of craiglist post “what happened to all the nice guys?”. The simple answer is you happened. By “you” i mean a general you, the practice owner. Most people my generation know multiple people who have been screwed by YOU. Again not you you. People are incredibly hesitant to take a 300s for years deal, “just trust us we will make you partner”. People are wary of working with significantly older people who will never treat them as an equal (“some animals are more equal than others”). Perhaps it is time to look inward. Why are you not finding someone? I know you are shocked and confused but perhaps the deal you offer is not even close to a good deal. It is time for introspection. Some of these old guys literally think their farts smell like Suavage Dior Elixir

 

[drowsy12]

This is also what will lead to further death of PP rad onc. More and more new grads simply don’t trust them.

I looked pretty closely at one when I was graduating that ultimately I just didn’t trust enough to take the leap. It may have worked out. But I took something safer. A year later the practice sold out to a hospital system as they couldn’t find anyone.

The peak rad onc year graduates wanted and continue to want now - location and comfort and safety and time off.

 

[drowsy12]

Another PP interview story at a diff place that was eat what you kill. Three of the guys/gals were great. One was nice but was clear that he didn’t want to split more of what he was ‘killing’

Was a huge red flag. No thanks.

Perhaps I’m conservative but many of my peers are. I simply didn’t have that kind of worry at any of the employed jobs I looked at

 

[ramsesthenice]

So many possible issues posted already. I am still convinced that a lot of it is generational. The generation emerging now really values their time. And honestly, I get it. Between my wife and I, we bring in mid 600s and lead a very comfortable life. How much different would my life be if I made an extra 300K? In my neck of the woods where COL is very average…not much. We are already at the point we can buy anything we want at anytime. The balance sheet would look better but it wouldn’t put us to the level of buying multiple vacation homes, huge car collections, or private jets. I also value my time (especially now that I’m a parent) and I would really need to get to next level rich to consider taking on more hours or stress. That would probably be well more than is realistic to expect in the current environment.

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

Are you offering solid compensation? If the offer is $300k for 3 years with the hope of getting partnership and making double that in like 10 years… I can tell you the issue isn’t where you’re posting it!

This.

I will be trying to financially recover from a 300-ish fake partnership track job with a non existent 7 figure partner income carrot for the next decade at least.

Time value of money. Med students are savvy. I wouldn’t touch one of these jobs with a 10 foot pole unless the partnership deal was totally transparent and basically ironclad up front.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

So many possible issues posted already. I am still convinced that a lot of it is generational. The generation emerging now really values their time. And honestly, I get it. Between my wife and I, we bring in mid 600s and lead a very comfortable life. How much different would my life be if I made an extra 300K? In my neck of the woods where COL is very average…not much. We are already at the point we can buy anything we want at anytime. The balance sheet would look better but it wouldn’t put us to the level of buying multiple vacation homes, huge car collections, or private jets. I also value my time (especially now that I’m a parent) and I would really need to get to next level rich to consider taking on more hours or stress. That would probably be well more than is realistic to expect in the current environment.

"I can always make more money, I can never make more time."

 

[Reaganite]

A lot of people read this board. Post the job details here.

 

[medgator]

I can only speak for myself, so maybe I'm way off base, but:

I'm in the Northeast, the land of the snowbirds. I have family that chose to move to Florida and many of my patients do the 6 months north/6 months Florida lifestyle.

Or, at least, they used to. All I've heard about for the past year or two are the INSANE homeowners insurance issues happening in Florida. Family members have had their rates triple. Some people I've talked to can't even find a company willing to offer a policy. I've seen people move back north permanently because of it.

Second, Florida has always had a certain...reputation. Certainly in Radiation Oncology, all of our most salacious "events" seems to come out of that state. At this point, it feels like EVERYONE is leery of practicing Radiation Oncology in Florida. The "safe havens" are perceived to be the academic systems (Moffitt, UF, Miami, Mayo Jax).

"Florida Private Practice Radiation Oncology" was personally something I never even had on my "potential job search" list.

Third, while Florida has always been perceived on the national stage in a...certain light ("Florida Man"), since the pandemic (and Mar-a-Lago, and Epstein, etc), the state has...well, it's certainly unique. I know that influences things as well.

Fourth, as was mentioned above...the $300k/3 years to partner thing DOES NOT FLY anymore. That's the same deal that was offered a decade ago, and it feels like the practices offering this package forgot that there was such a thing as inflation.

My previous job had that package, and I knew it was a trade-off I had to make in favor of geography. But my preferred geography is fairly difficult for Radiation Oncology.

Tampa? Tampa is not exactly a linac desert. There are options. I know the ballpark of Moffitt's starting package and to a new grad, or someone with experience who would have to "start over" at a new place...the $300k/3 years will not fly anymore.

Finally: how's the reputation of your group? Any of your members been in the news recently, local or national? The name of your practice? Been associated with anything negative?

It's A LOT easier in the internet age to quickly find "dirt". The first thing I do, looking at a job posting, is Google search the practice name and see what comes up. Then the names of the group members.

What comes up when you do that with your practice?

Nailed it. All of it. Including the homeowners insurance crisis.

The gap between pp and employed/academic has narrowed significantly over the years. Don't want to throw out numbers given this is not in the business subforum, but suffice to say unless you are offering some technical ownership, is pro fees enough to move the needle vs higher compensation hospital jobs that may be near by?

I would add there are some big private systems that are also relatively stable-ish like Baptist in South FL and Jax, Advent and Cleveland clinic which is slowly moving up southeast coast. All of these systems are probably offering more upfront esp with any kind of experience or BC.

If you are making more with these systems right off the bat for the first 2-3 years of partnership, people will question the risk of that swear equity $300k salary.

Tampa is a really popular metro and won the Zillow award a year or two as the hottest real estate market as well. I think people all the big players in town like moffitt and tgh both of which are no longer connected and they wonder about joining a smaller private group in a competitive market

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Also how many proton centers does tampa need? Ridiculous!

 

[brushbeamscanning]

Definitely part of the calculus when I was evaluating jobs last year, a lot of sweat equity PP groups didn't feel safe if was a single specialty, small physician group with professional services contract only in a non CON state. I would imagine it being hard to find a new compelling job in the current environment if the practice gets bought out or implodes prior to several years of partner track money. Reimbursements are in a weird spot with previous talk of bundled payments so this idea of having a decade of a high partner salaries seems unlikely. There's too much fear of being taken advantage of as a new grad since most of these entrenched PP groups want to keep the gravy train going so more than likely they'll probably churn new grads versus offering fair equity.

 

[medgator]

Also how many proton centers does tampa need? Ridiculous!

As many as Jax, duh!

 

[medgator]

Definitely part of the calculus when I was evaluating jobs last year, a lot of sweat equity PP groups didn't feel safe if was a single specialty, small physician group with professional services contract only in a non CON state. I would imagine it being hard to find a new compelling job in the current environment if the practice gets bought out or implodes prior to several years of partner track money. Reimbursements are in a weird spot with previous talk of bundled payments so this idea of having a decade of a high partner salaries seems unlikely. There's too much fear of being taken advantage of as a new grad since most of these entrenched PP groups want to keep the gravy train going so more than likely they'll probably churn new grads versus offering fair equity.

SERO is single specialty I think? The most recent fair/good pp jobs I've seen that aren't pro fees only have been with multi-specialty groups which have med onc/surgeons etc with pooling of ancillaries/ownership in technical.

Agree with your sentiments regarding single specialty rad onc groups, esp if pro only

 

[DebtRising]

Would be interested. Does partnership track include technical or professional only?

 

[Doctorer]

SERO is single specialty I think? The most recent fair/good pp jobs I've seen that aren't pro fees only have been with multi-specialty groups which have med onc/surgeons etc with pooling of ancillaries/ownership in technical.

Agree with your sentiments regarding single specialty rad onc groups, esp if pro only

SERO is also in a unique position in that that they're pretty much the only game in town, right? A lot easier to keep your dominant market position in Charlotte vs any major east coast city.

 

[ramsesthenice]

SERO is also in a unique position in that that they're pretty much the only game in town, right? A lot easier to keep your dominant market position in Charlotte vs any major east coast city.

NC is a CON state. SERO and CMC will be the only games in town for years to come.

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

NC is a CON state. SERO and CMC will be the only games in town for years to come.

Is there a list of CON for linac state by state? I have googled this in the past without success. Don’t know why.

 

[RickyScott]

Sounds like a similar situation to the large pp north of Boston. Not sure they are still around, but they were paying less than the hospital employed gigs- even for partners. (In fairness, group was also incredibly arrogant)

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Is there a list of CON for linac state by state? I have googled this in the past without success. Don’t know why.

If you just Google "certificate of need state laws" a bunch of sites come up - it's basically impossible that a state with any sort of CON law will exclude linacs, so no one has bothered to just make a "linac CON list" specifically.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Nailed it. All of it. Including the homeowners insurance crisis.

The gap between pp and employed/academic has narrowed significantly over the years. Don't want to throw out numbers given this is not in the business subforum, but suffice to say unless you are offering some technical ownership, is pro fees enough to move the needle vs higher compensation hospital jobs that may be near by?

I would add there are some big private systems that are also relatively stable-ish like Baptist in South FL and Jax, Advent and Cleveland clinic which is slowly moving up southeast coast. All of these systems are probably offering more upfront esp with any kind of experience or BC.

If you are making more with these systems right off the bat for the first 2-3 years of partnership, people will question the risk of that swear equity $300k salary.

Tampa is a really popular metro and won the Zillow award a year or two as the hottest real estate market as well. I think people all the big players in town like moffitt and tgh both of which are no longer connected and they wonder about joining a smaller private group in a competitive market

Phew, this is the first time I've said all of that together outside of my head so it's good to know I haven't hit "Beautiful Mind" level math yet...

 

[medgator]

If you just Google "certificate of need state laws" a bunch of sites come up - it's basically impossible that a state with any sort of CON law will exclude linacs, so no one has bothered to just make a "linac CON list" specifically.

FL has CON for hospitals but not linacs

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

FL has CON for hospitals but not linacs

Well that certainly reinforces my comments in this thread about RadOnc in Florida...

(I'm not aware of that being the case for any other state, but obviously I'm not a legal scholar. I guess we should cross-reference states with a CON and census records for if a Dosoretz has ever lived in that state?)

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Deep red states going to find it tougher and tougher to recruit young professionals the more and more regressive they become

 

[MidwestRadOnc]

FL has CON for hospitals but not linacs

Kind of crazy you can’t find this out from google. Chat GPT tells me 10 states that MAY have a CON for linacs: NY, CA, FL, IL, GA, NC, VA, MI, NJ, MD

So obs wrong.

 

[brushbeamscanning]

There's about 36 states + DC that have CON, of which 22 have specific laws governing linear accelerators.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

There's about 36 states + DC that have CON, of which 22 have specific laws governing linear accelerators.

View attachment 384135

That's an awesome list, I haven't seen that graphic before.

Reading the bottom, it says the source is AHPA in 2016, so I would imagine the bulk of that information is still valid but would always double check.

 

[medgator]

Kind of crazy you can’t find this out from google. Chat GPT tells me 10 states that MAY have a CON for linacs: NY, CA, FL, IL, GA, NC, VA, MI, NJ, MD

So obs wrong.

Multiple proton centers now in multiple cities in FL, just like the CK thing two decades ago. Definitely no restrictions there.

I do know a large hospital system that got nailed by their competition for creating a bunch of hospital beds/expansion without going through the con process and they had to pay a ton of fines and let their competitor have some type of relief etc

 

[grenz]

"I can always make more money, I can never make more time."

Lots to like about this quote, but I do think it ignores the fact that a PP job pulling in at least several $100k more than similar hospital employed job will bring you to financial independence way earlier. I’ve modeled the two scenarios assuming in the W2 base case you’re saving 20% of gross income for retirement, and it’s the difference between retiring/opting to go part-time because you enjoy the work in your 50s vs 60s.

 

[ramsesthenice]

Lots to like about this quote, but I do think it ignores the fact that a PP job pulling in at least several $100k more than similar hospital employed job will bring you to financial independence way earlier. I’ve modeled the two scenarios assuming in the W2 base case you’re saving 20% of gross income for retirement, and it’s the difference between retiring/opting to go part-time because you enjoy the work in your 50s vs 60s.

Absolutely depends on where you live and lifestyle. I live in a very average COL area and only have 1 kid. On top of that, we had a killer market for the first several years of me working. I’ll get there with our earnings before I’m 50. But, if we lived in say So Cal or NYC and wanted to maintain the same lifestyle, the extra money would make a huge difference. And let’s be real, all things being equal, I’d take the extra money. But I could see the writing on the wall plain as day when I was starting out. Since I’ve been here, all 5 of the true PP groups within 200 miles of here have been acquired by ourselves or our competitor. The partner(s) took their payout and retired. The younger folks now work for us for about what I make with 2-3x the clinical load ☹️.

 

[grenz]

Absolutely depends on where you live and lifestyle. I live in a very average COL area and only have 1 kid. On top of that, we had a killer market for the first several years of me working. I’ll get there with our earnings before I’m 50. But, if we lived in say So Cal or NYC and wanted to maintain the same lifestyle, the extra money would make a huge difference. And let’s be real, all things being equal, I’d take the extra money. But I could see the writing on the wall plain as day when I was starting out. Since I’ve been here, all 5 of the true PP groups within 200 miles of here have been acquired by ourselves or our competitor. The partner(s) took their payout and retired. The younger folks now work for us for about what I make with 2-3x the clinical load ☹️.

Definitely case by case for both the individual and the practice, but the relative differential in financial independence between the two scenarios will hold. I still think PP is a great opportunity if you have in front of you a democratic group with a good position in the market. From the OP’s tone it seems like they genuinely believe they have both those factors, so I’d bet the trouble recruiting has more to do with Florida than generational changes in attitude towards PP. The politics in Florida are not traditional conservative governance that you may disagree with but could live with. it’s governance by whatever “owns the libs.”

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Lots to like about this quote, but I do think it ignores the fact that a PP job pulling in at least several $100k more than similar hospital employed job will bring you to financial independence way earlier. I’ve modeled the two scenarios assuming in the W2 base case you’re saving 20% of gross income for retirement, and it’s the difference between retiring/opting to go part-time because you enjoy the work in your 50s vs 60s.

Well to be clear...I don't exactly follow the quote myself either lol.

In real life, I bust it out when I have like, someone valet my car to the shop to do routine maintenance while I'm at work as opposed to doing it on my own time.

I also happen to somewhat enjoy being a Radiation Oncologist...which I assume people already knew at this point...

 

[ramsesthenice]

Lots to like about this quote, but I do think it ignores the fact that a PP job pulling in at least several $100k more than similar hospital employed job will bring you to financial independence way earlier. I’ve modeled the two scenarios assuming in the W2 base case you’re saving 20% of gross income for retirement, and it’s the difference between retiring/opting to go part-time because you enjoy the work in your 50s vs 60s.

Let’s also not forget that no matter how much you make at work, financial independence in our economy comes when your money starts making money. We talk about what we “make” but that ignores the fact my investments earned another couple hundred K last year. Fast forward 10 years when I’m early 50s, I’ll probably make as much or more from investments than work. Unless you are pulling intergenerational income (which essentially none of us possibly can), this will probably be the case.

To your point, no matter where you live or what your lifestyle is, a higher income will get you there sooner. It comes down to how much that is worth and it’s going to be different for everyone and situation.

 

[Neuronix]

Our group is a private group in Tampa, FL. We are recruting but have had struggle attracting candidates. It used to be that we would post jobs on the ASTRO board and get tons of applicants, now we struggle to get any. We are a private group that is lifestyle friendly (4 days per week) and partnership track. It appears most applicants these days prefer employed jobs at academic health systems. Where do physicians go these days to apply for jobs, if they're not using the ASTRO board? Thanks for your advice.

Show us the job. You can post on private forum if you want.

I've spent a long time in Florida. I remember when I was looking years ago and the job market was tight there were a number of notoriously predatory positions in various stages of turnover or available.

I knew several private owners at small practices who gave lousy deals and used to lament that they couldn't find anyone to work with. Their houses and rumors of their personal wealth were quite large.

Some people who were desperate used to sign a contract and bail as soon as they found something else, whether that was before starting or staying a year or two and bailing.

I know that several of those jobs are still "recruiting" to this day.

The job market is better this year, so I'm seeing a lot more available positions in Florida. It seems to me that the lousy deals aren't even going to get a churn and burn attending anymore.

If you're giving low pay "sweat equity" without a clear desirable partnership track or already have a rep for churn and burn, nobody is going to risk some nebulous partnership when they can take a sure thing from one of the pseudo-academic shops that are paying hospital employed sorts of rates.

 

[OTN]

The devil is very much in the details here, and we don't have any of those

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Do people not know the job that is being talked about? The poster left enough crumbs in their post to immediately figure it out

 

[grenz]

Let’s also not forget that no matter how much you make at work, financial independence in our economy comes when your money starts making money. We talk about what we “make” but that ignores the fact my investments earned another couple hundred K last year. Fast forward 10 years when I’m early 50s, I’ll probably make as much or more from investments than work. Unless you are pulling intergenerational income (which essentially none of us possibly can), this will probably be the case.

To your point, no matter where you live or what your lifestyle is, a higher income will get you there sooner. It comes down to how much that is worth and it’s going to be different for everyone and situation.

You’re either an avid WCI reader or a boglehead because you’re clearly doing everything right. But it does remain that over the 10 year period, in PP you could have socked away at least $2mill more, which would have allowed you to become FI much earlier and/or afford you a higher standard of living in retirement.

I’m not saying FI in 40s vs early 50s for you is meaningful, but for someone who otherwise would be hitting FI in 60s with a W2 job, PP leading to FI in 50s could be meaningful.

 

[yesmaster]

Sounds like a similar situation to the large pp north of Boston. Not sure they are still around, but they were paying less than the hospital employed gigs - even for partners. (In fairness, group was also incredibly arrogant)

ROA-NE?

 

[yesmaster]

You’re either an avid WCI reader or a boglehead because you’re clearly doing everything right. But it does remain that over the 10 year period, in PP you could have socked away at least $2mill more, which would have allowed you to become FI much earlier and/or afford you a higher standard of living in retirement.

I’m not saying FI in 40s vs early 50s for you is meaningful, but for someone who otherwise would be hitting FI in 60s with a W2 job, PP leading to FI in 50s could be meaningful.

It depends on the type of PP and if partnership is legit, and offered in good faith

 

[ramsesthenice]

You’re either an avid WCI reader or a boglehead because you’re clearly doing everything right. But it does remain that over the 10 year period, in PP you could have socked away at least $2mill more, which would have allowed you to become FI much earlier and/or afford you a higher standard of living in retirement.

I’m not saying FI in 40s vs early 50s for you is meaningful, but for someone who otherwise would be hitting FI in 60s with a W2 job, PP leading to FI in 50s could be meaningful.

In a good private practice I could have. But as I hinted at, the only one I considered that was 3 years to partnership got acquired 2 years after I would have joined. Whomp whomp. And I appreciate the confidence but as always, luck counts for a lot. Returns for most of my employment age have been stupid high. And having a 1.8% fixed rate on my mortgage while watching our home value shoot up by over 50%...we clearly had advantages that the folks just coming out probably will not. There is no question that I would not be able to put away close to what I did and maintain the same life style if I were just starting out today. I would probably have made the same decision that I did because I am very happy here, but I think I would have spent more time looking at options before signing.

But look, we agree. Even for me, there are plenty of variables which could change the equation in favor of seeking higher earnings.

 

[RSAOaky]

Florida is an amazing place to live except for the Floridians.

 

[Neuronix]

No doxxing or providing enough information to figure out who the OP or their practice might be. I deleted a post to this effect.

 

[communitydoc13]

I believe that medstuds should look for opportunities where they have a high likelihood of being as valued as senior partners/faculty within a short time period. Even if you are making good money, it is hard to feel like you are underpaid or undervalued relative to your colleagues.

For me, this means that working in a practice where some docs have technical and others do not is a red flag, as is a family owned practice, as is a satellite academic position.

Mothership academic, hospital employed, community practice with PSA and equitable partnership as well as rare legit technical buy in with diverse ownership (radonc only is nice but it's much more likely to be multi-specialty) are all reasonable options IMO.

Just me, but I suspect this viewpoint is pretty common.

Employers should advertise equity in their practice (among docs).

 

[drowsy12]

I believe that medstuds should look for opportunities where they have a high likelihood of being as valued as senior partners/faculty within a short time period. Even if you are making good money, it is hard to feel like you are underpaid or undervalued relative to your colleagues.

For me, this means that working in a practice where some docs have technical and others do not is a red flag, as is a family owned practice, as is a satellite academic position.

Mothership academic, hospital employed, community practice with PSA and equitable partnership as well as rare legit technical buy in with diverse ownership (radonc only is nice but it's much more likely to be multi-specialty) are all reasonable options IMO.

Just me, but I suspect this viewpoint is pretty common.

Employers should advertise equity in their practice (among docs).

generally agree except to say there are many satellite academic jobs which are the same essentially as other hospital employed jobs. it doesn't inherently have to be a bad thing, it depends on the system

 

[drowsy12]

Do people not know the job that is being talked about? The poster left enough crumbs in their post to immediately figure it out

even if I have seen the posting, it still doesn't really give the details.

I think the general take home point here is that people aren't even bothering reaching out to find out more.

 

[Gfunk6]

I entered the job market in 2011, got partnership 2.5 years later and, I think, have done well. Here are my views on this topic:

1. I agree that current gen people are far more interested in getting upfront $$$ rather than building equity.
2. Their is a fundamental lack of trust between new grads and existing equity partners - to an extent, I think this is well-founded. There is a history of equity partners reneging on their verbal partnership offers. Contracts are deliberately written in a vague manner to allow them to do this. Furtheremore, I've seen many instances where a 3rd party buys out the practice right before a new Rad Onc is about to become an equity partner which basically resulted them in getting nothing for their "sweat" equity.
3. New grads have delayed many major milestones in their lives to attain their educational objectives. Having kids and buying a single-family home are all on their priority list. These are more expensive than ever before and the costs have increased to a far greater extent than inflation. Getting below market compensation for a dubious partnership track is not viewed as desirable to achieve these ends.
4. @ramsesthenice - your post above was spot on. Only suckers rely on compensation for their entire careers. Wise and patient investing and generation of passive income is tremendously important. Despite all of the advertisements to the contrary, there are no fast and easy ways to do this.

 

[OTN]

Agree with all of the above. I would also add:

1. 3 years to partner is too long and not reasonable anymore in the current environment. 18 months - 24 months would be reasonable.
2. There is much greater risk now of a PE/hospital buyout than when I entered the job market. This risk needs to be compensated for new grads, with either a higher initial salary or some inclusion in gains from a buyout even if not a full partner.

 

[drowsy12]

the question here is - those of you in PP hiring, are you willing to cut the time to partner and give clauses saying as such?

In my experience, people are not willing to do that. 'if I had to work 3 years to prove myself, why should you make partner at 1.5?'

like all things, it's easy to suggest, but people are people.

Some would probably rather sell out to PE/hospital system than do this