List of highly sought-after residencies

[FutureDPM123]

Making these lists to help future students when they have to pick their clerkships. Keep in mind that each program has its own caveats so not everyone likes all of them. But it's important to have solid clerkships, especially if you're a high rank, so you don't waste months with bad programs.

Top tier programs

• Kaiser Oakland > Kaiser santa clara and kaiser Vallejo
• Presbyterian/St. Luke's Medical Center
• AdventHealth East Orlando
• HealthPartners Institute/Regions Hospital
• Legacy Health
• John Peter Smith Hospital
• Franciscan Health System - St Francis Hospital

North East Good Programs

• West penn
• Mount auburn
• Kent hosptial (RI)
• Eastern virginia medical school
• Inova

Programs to avoid

• Most of the Philadelphia, NY, and NJ programs
• Emory
• Most VA's
• Medstar
• The university of texas at san antonio

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[GreenHousePub]

Nice. Lemme dust this one off too:

 

[iridocyclitiss]

Nice. Lemme dust this one off too:
View attachment 373599

I want to be mad at this but pretty much everyone I've seen this year aside from 1 or 2 got a PP job

 

[heybrother]

I'm a little down on this thread because its just says the same old stuff we already know without the context.

 

[Adam Smasher]

university of texas at san antonio

Oohh I know who's going to want a word with you outside

 

[Feli]

These things are tough to rank, but good programs are good programs... high volume/diversity program are high volume/diversity. There are a very finite number of those probably less than 100 spots.

Emory is one of the best in the country... good attendings, good cases, great academics, good historical results for grad jobs/results. They run good meetings teaching DPMs, publish, etc etc - and have for decades. Their style of teaching won't be for everyone (I enjoyed the clerk exp but didn't apply for the interview), but there are simply not a ton of places that get those kind of teachers and cases. It took a hit when most of Camasta's cases went to the fellow, but a lot of good and even fairl programs have (unwisely) given in to that fellowship trend.

Emory and MedStar, especially the former, are not "programs to avoid." There are 100+ podiatry programs to avoid, but those are not them.

At the end of the day, there are basically four types of programs:

1. Good program highly structured (good cases, good academics, downside of some rank-order and ego bull and hard-for-the-sake-of-being-hard to put up with)
2. Good program highly self-directed (many cases, much autonomy, lacking structure or scheduled academics/research)
3. Ok program with some deficiencies (usually mediocre attendings or hinges too heavy one one or two attendings or just not a great mix or volume of cases... vast majority trauma, vast majority diabetic, doesn't tend to match top students, etc... can give you want you need but will rely on much self-starting by resident and self-study)
4. Crap program (low surgical volume and more holes than swiss cheese, low ABFAS BQ pass rate... sadly, this is probably half of the 'accredited' podiatry residencies)

I don't think we should be crapping on any programs that can easily give ppl exposure to what they need simply because we don't like their style. This is not MD land where every program has good attendings, good academics and board prep, large teaching hospital. There are FAR too many inadequate 'PMSR/RRA' programs for most students to be overly choosy (and it'll get worse with new schools), but if someone has the academic and social and work ethic chops, then yeah, pick your learning style and/or location for residency among low number of good ones.

 

[FutureDPM123]

These things are tough to rank, but good programs are good programs... high volume/diversity program are high volume/diversity. There are a very finite number of those probably less than 100 spots.

Emory is one of the best in the country... good attendings, good cases, great academics, good historical results for grad jobs/results. They run good meetings teaching DPMs, publish, etc etc - and have for decades. Their style of teaching won't be for everyone (I enjoyed the clerk exp but didn't apply for the interview), but there are simply not a ton of places that get those kind of teachers and cases. It took a hit when most of Camasta's cases went to the fellow, but a lot of good and even fairl programs have (unwisely) given in to that fellowship trend.

Emory and MedStar, especially the former, are not "programs to avoid." There are 100+ podiatry programs to avoid, but those are not them.

At the end of the day, there are basically four types of programs:

1. Good program highly structured (good cases, good academics, downside of some rank-order and ego bull and hard-for-the-sake-of-being-hard to put up with)
2. Good program highly self-directed (many cases, much autonomy, lacking structure or scheduled academics/research)
3. Ok program with some deficiencies (usually mediocre attendings or hinges too heavy one one or two attendings or just not a great mix or volume of cases... vast majority trauma, vast majority diabetic, doesn't tend to match top students, etc... can give you want you need but will rely on much self-starting by resident and self-study)
4. Crap program (low surgical volume and more holes than swiss cheese, low ABFAS BQ pass rate... sadly, this is probably half of the 'accredited' podiatry residencies)

I don't think we should be crapping on any programs that can easily give ppl exposure to what they need simply because we don't like their style. This is not MD land where every program has good attendings, good academics and board prep, large teaching hospital. There are FAR too many inadequate 'PMSR/RRA' programs for most students to be overly choosy (and it'll get worse with new schools), but if someone has the academic and social and work ethic chops, then yeah, pick your learning style and/or location for residency among low number of good ones.

My personal opinion is Medstar is only good for people who like to do wound care and are ok with atrocious hours while doing it.

 

[Feli]

My personal opinion is Medstar is only good for people who like to do wound care and are ok with atrocious hours while doing it.

I don't disagree, but they still have a pretty good BQ rate, some very good attendings (both DPM and MDs), a major teach hospital, generally match top half grads even though they have many spots, competent grads versus most programs (many get baord cert ABFAS, teach or end up otherwise at least average successful), etc.

While all of those things are to be taken for granted at MD programs, they are missing more often than they are present at most DPM programs. It will get worse with the new pod schools and more residencies as well as watering down training with added spots at existing. Therefore, MedStar is definitely a top half residency program for podiatry... because podiatry, and the sad fact that a lot of our "surgical residency" spots are jokes.

Emory is a top 10% or even elite program, depending what the student wants for structure. Hard hours and some BS? Sure. Good cases and end results? Absolutely.

We can't be saying some of our good/best programs are not worth considering just because they take call or have some early/late days. Almost all MD programs for any sort of surgery have tough hours or at least tough months. If we said the only podiatry residencies worth considering had to have high volume + diversity of surgery cases + good academics + good attendings + major hospital + reasonable hours, we'd have about 10 or 20 worth considering

 

[FutureDPM123]

I don't disagree, but they still have a pretty good BQ rate, some very good attendings (both DPM and MDs), a major teach hospital, generally match top half grads even though they have many spots, competent grads versus most programs (many get baord cert ABFAS, teach or end up otherwise at least average successful), etc.

While all of those things are to be taken for granted at MD programs, they are missing more often than they are present at most DPM programs. It will get worse with the new pod schools and more residencies as well as watering down training with added spots at existing. Therefore, MedStar is definitely a top half residency program for podiatry... because podiatry, and the sad fact that a lot of our "surgical residency" spots are jokes.

Emory is a top 10% or even elite program, depending what the student wants for structure. Hard hours and some BS? Sure. Good cases and end results? Absolutely.

We can't be saying some of our good/best programs are not worth considering just because they take call or have some early/late days. Almost all MD programs for any sort of surgery have tough hours or at least tough months. If we said the only podiatry residencies worth considering had to have high volume + diversity of surgery cases + good academics + good attendings + major hospital + reasonable hours, we'd have about 10 or 20 worth considering

I know 5 different people who call Emory the worst program they’ve been to. To each their own, but that’s why I have it on the list as such.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Presby St Luke’s is overrated. They don’t let their residents cut. They pimp you constantly but in real life nobody gives a crap about the esoteric stuff. Their clinic and off service rotations are weak. You graduate as the ultimate idiot podiatrist who knows literally every detail of podiatric minutia but you can’t operate and you don’t know basic medicine.

Mount Auburn is overrated. Basile is the only real surgeon in that group.

Kaiser Oakland is the only Kaiser worth training at even with some of their attending departures or retirements. If you want to work at Kaiser or any of the surrounding hospital systems in California then graduating from Kaiser Oakland is the biggest key to the castle.

Yale wasn’t mentioned but it is an overrated program. They double scrub cases.

VA hospitals are all terrible

NY residencies are terrible

NJ residencies are pretty bad with exception of Jersey Shore

CT residencies are bad

I’d pick Carilion over EVMS and INOVA if we are talking Virginia programs

I still think the Kentucky programs still produce competent graduates with good experience.

I think Ohio programs are in big trouble with the new negative sentiment towards podiatry which seems to be building there.

I still think UPMC and West Penn are good programs

Medstar is another overrated program. I’d consider it more legit if they didn’t accept so many residents. They have good attendings there but no way they do enough cases to support the 20+ residents they have there without double scrubbing.

—————

Programs I’ve consistently see produce quality graduates who are not dumb are Kaiser Oakland, Swedish, JPS and Wheaton Franciscan

I think the residency program in North Dakota - Fargo/Sanford is up and coming

I’d say if you want to be the best surgeon possible Wheaton Franciscan really ranks very high up there as their residents literally cut from day one. It’s a program that never gets the credit it deserves.

 

[FutureDPM123]

Presby St Luke’s is overrated. They don’t let their residents cut. They pimp you constantly but in real life nobody gives a crap about the esoteric stuff. Their clinic and off service rotations are weak. You graduate as the ultimate idiot podiatrist who knows literally every detail of podiatric minutia but you can’t operate and you don’t know basic medicine.

Mount Auburn is overrated. Basile is the only real surgeon in that group.

Kaiser Oakland is the only Kaiser worth training at even with some of their attending departures or retirements. If you want to work at Kaiser or any of the surrounding hospital systems in California then graduating from Kaiser Oakland is the biggest key to the castle.

Yale wasn’t mentioned but it is an overrated program. They double scrub cases.

VA hospitals are all terrible

NY residencies are terrible

NJ residencies are pretty bad with exception of Jersey Shore

CT residencies are bad

I’d pick Carilion over EVMS and INOVA if we are talking Virginia programs

I still think the Kentucky programs still produce competent graduates with good experience.

I think Ohio programs are in big trouble with the new negative sentiment towards podiatry which seems to be building there.

I still think UPMC and West Penn are good programs

Medstar is another overrated program. I’d consider it more legit if they didn’t accept so many residents. They have good attendings there but no way they do enough cases to support the 20+ residents they have there without double scrubbing.

—————

Programs I’ve consistently see produce quality graduates who are not dumb are Kaiser Oakland, Swedish, JPS and Wheaton Franciscan

I think the residency program in North Dakota - Fargo/Sanford is up and coming

I’d say if you want to be the best surgeon possible Wheaton Franciscan really ranks very high up there as their residents literally cut from day one. It’s a program that never gets the credit it deserves.

I agree with most of what you said about the other programs not on my list. Although I don’t think UPMC is good, just ok.

 

[Shiyuan]

Some OH programs are fantastic with good ortho relationships... notably Northeast and some Cincy ones. But very much regional.

 

[QBoyd]

Presby St Luke’s is overrated. They don’t let their residents cut. They pimp you constantly but in real life nobody gives a crap about the esoteric stuff. Their clinic and off service rotations are weak. You graduate as the ultimate idiot podiatrist who knows literally every detail of podiatric minutia but you can’t operate and you don’t know basic medicine.

Mount Auburn is overrated. Basile is the only real surgeon in that group.

Kaiser Oakland is the only Kaiser worth training at even with some of their attending departures or retirements. If you want to work at Kaiser or any of the surrounding hospital systems in California then graduating from Kaiser Oakland is the biggest key to the castle.

Yale wasn’t mentioned but it is an overrated program. They double scrub cases.

VA hospitals are all terrible

NY residencies are terrible

NJ residencies are pretty bad with exception of Jersey Shore

CT residencies are bad

I’d pick Carilion over EVMS and INOVA if we are talking Virginia programs

I still think the Kentucky programs still produce competent graduates with good experience.

I think Ohio programs are in big trouble with the new negative sentiment towards podiatry which seems to be building there.

I still think UPMC and West Penn are good programs

Medstar is another overrated program. I’d consider it more legit if they didn’t accept so many residents. They have good attendings there but no way they do enough cases to support the 20+ residents they have there without double scrubbing.

—————

Programs I’ve consistently see produce quality graduates who are not dumb are Kaiser Oakland, Swedish, JPS and Wheaton Franciscan

I think the residency program in North Dakota - Fargo/Sanford is up and coming

I’d say if you want to be the best surgeon possible Wheaton Franciscan really ranks very high up there as their residents literally cut from day one. It’s a program that never gets the credit it deserves.

Wheaton Franciscan = Ascension Wisconsin now for anyone confused. It’s 2 programs that merged in Milwaukee into 1. Incredible numbers and handed the blade immediately.

 

[Feli]

Wheaton Franciscan = Ascension Wisconsin now for anyone confused. It’s 2 programs that merged in Milwaukee into 1. Incredible numbers and handed the blade immediately.

Yeah, it's a good thing... Ascension is the same hospital system that took over and re-branded a lot of hospitals in Detroit (including the main hospital in that system, where I trained). They own a whole lot of hospitals in Chicago area and other states also. They have good GME funding and support, good teaching hospital culture from what I could tell. Research support and off-service rotations were improved, most hospitals and ASCs that I saw ran pretty smooth. It was a good thing for resident training from everything I saw... I liked it a lot.

 

[Adam Smasher]

Crap program (low surgical volume and more holes than swiss cheese, low ABFAS BQ pass rate... sadly, this is probably half of the 'accredited' podiatry residencies)

Is it really that many? I know there are bad programs out there but when you look at MAVs it's not hard to create a residency program. I could probably direct 1-2 non-RRA residents between my and my partners' case volume.

I went to what you would have classified as a "type 3" program, we were good but not great. High volume of bread-and-butter forefoot but nothing exotic coming in. Anyway, it got me to where I am. I don't feel like I do anything all that special surgically, but I'm consistent with my outcomes.

Not being argumentative, I genuinely want to know if awful residencies where people fudge their logs make up 50%.

 

[edog10]

Emory/PI is good but only if you like being yelled at by dinosaurs or want to be proficient doing an open bunion under local w/epi

Medstar hours are terrible and you need a fellowship if you want to be surgically competent to do anything but amputate or perform wound care. However, likely possible to get, based off of Steinberg's connections.

Wake Forest has a name....but a lot of ortho dominance and a lot of competition in the area for foot & ankle pathology, plus a lot of mouths to feed.

Norton was always top notch. A handful of programs in florida (orlando, bethesda, ? ) a few in texas (JPS, not sure who else anymore),
carilion and inova in VA. Always thought the columbus programs were good but maybe that has taken a hit.

 

[JustAPedicurist]

Same programs always mentioned. The best out there fly under the radar for the most part.

Emory, DMC, etc it’s not 1995 anymore.

 

[FutureDPM323]

Meant to post this back when this thread started but never got around to it:

Medstar is awful...yes I know there are far worse programs but that program is hyped up/called a good program when it simply is not and I feel students get duped into going there as a result. their own graduates and residents complain about how little blade time they actually get. Pretty sure I overheard at ACFAS this year that their second years struggle with hammer toes. And well when I rotated there as a student, let’s just say their elective case number was concerning…but they sure as heck knew how to versajet!

Legacy is a great program. It’s not talked about a ton on here because they’re in their own little bubble but if I had a top 5, Id put it on there. Between Kaiser and Legacy rotations, the residents there are seeing a lot of interesting pathology but also getting high numbers in bread and butter cases. They get the blade a good amount of time too…more than I’ve seen at a lot of places. Great balance of surgery and clinic. The program’s clinics are an example of the good clinics…the residents aren’t doing toe nails and calluses but rather seeing and working up patients different pathologies.

PSL I heard is not what it used to be. A lot of journal club/academics but very little blade time. I never rotated there so I can’t say for sure but have heard this from quite a few people in the past couple years

Inova you go there for Derner and the ortho trauma rotation. That ortho trauma rotation is probably one of the craziest ones I’ve seen but also one of the best. They also have a sick Plastics rotation if we are talking off service rotations. Derner does a lot of interesting cases that you probably won’t see anywhere else…don’t expect to do them though. Creech also sometimes does cool recon stuff. And then they get their typical bread and butter cases from other attendings. But one thing that’s lacking at this program is no real clinic which imo is a big reason why I didn’t notice attending’s and residents talking about cases beforehand. Several times I would ask a resident if they had pre op XRs and they didn’t because they didn’t have access to the EMR or that was the excuse I’d been given. Just think it’s odd to go do surgery on someone and you haven’t even seen their pre op XRs until 15 minutes before the case. They talk about cases during radiology rads though.

Mount Auburn is good for Basile and that’s it. The Cooks are okay but I felt like the residents spent too much time in clinic. And they were very annoying about being associated with Harvard. there are definitely worse programs to end up at but it’s not a program I’d put in my list of top northeast programs.

One Philly program I’d recommend is UPenn…problem is that it’s four years. The rest are all garbage. Same with the NJ programs. Even Jersey Shore isn’t good. Fleming being there didn’t change things. The residents did not get the blade much. UPMC used to be great but with the loss of Burns and their Ortho trauma rotation, I’m not sure how they’re gonna recover from that. West Penn is great for recon and bread and butter but just know they don’t do trauma.

NYC programs….LOL

For Florida programs East Orlando, JFK, Westside and Bethesda. The rest are a joke and struggle to get their numbers…I’m talking digits, first rays etc

Midwest programs you have Ascension in Wisconsin (I think it’s name changed) but I’d rank that program in a top 5 if I had one. You get so much volume and so much interesting pathology all their residents are super smart and great with their hands. I was very impressed by this program. I would have went there but didn’t wanna do residency in Wisconsin. I know there’s a few in Detroit that are pretty good but no DMC is not one of them. That’s a program I’ve been told to warn students to avoid. Grant was another great program but unfortunately looks like it’s shutting down.

For West Coast you have Legacy like I mentioned, Kaiser Oakland would be another program I’d put in my top 5, the other Kaisers are solid as well, Scripps is solid if you can get the Kaiser route…Kaiser Sacramento is crazy busy and you’ll get a lot of ankle fractures. Still a good program even without the Kaiser route but def go the Kaiser route if you can. Swedish and Franciscan are also top notch programs.

I don’t know much about Texas programs. I hear JPS thrown around a lot as a great program though

Overall though just keep in mind that programs are always changing and sometimes even year to year a great program can become an okay program or an okay program can add an attending that elevates it and becomes a good one.

And finally, find the program that fits YOU. For example, for me Medstar sucks but hey if you like wounds and want to do wound care after residency then there ya go! Or maybe you’re someone who absolutely hates clinic then the Kaisers and Legacy wouldn’t be for you but a program like Inova would be etc.

In the end we are all probably going to end up practicing the same jobs but i’d rather spend my 3 years in residency seeing everything i can while learning from competent attendings who know what they’re doing and letting me actually do cases/ask questions than triple scrubbing cases and cutting toe nails in clinic but that’s just me.

 

[JustAPedicurist]

Meant to post this back when this thread started but never got around to it:

Medstar is awful...yes I know there are far worse programs but that program is hyped up/called a good program when it simply is not and I feel students get duped into going there as a result. their own graduates and residents complain about how little blade time they actually get. Pretty sure I overheard at ACFAS this year that their second years struggle with hammer toes. And well when I rotated there as a student, let’s just say their elective case number was concerning…but they sure as heck knew how to versajet!

Legacy is a great program. It’s not talked about a ton on here because they’re in their own little bubble but if I had a top 5, Id put it on there. Between Kaiser and Legacy rotations, the residents there are seeing a lot of interesting pathology but also getting high numbers in bread and butter cases. They get the blade a good amount of time too…more than I’ve seen at a lot of places. Great balance of surgery and clinic. The program’s clinics are an example of the good clinics…the residents aren’t doing toe nails and calluses but rather seeing and working up patients different pathologies.

PSL I heard is not what it used to be. A lot of journal club/academics but very little blade time. I never rotated there so I can’t say for sure but have heard this from quite a few people in the past couple years

Inova you go there for Derner and the ortho trauma rotation. That ortho trauma rotation is probably one of the craziest ones I’ve seen but also one of the best. They also have a sick Plastics rotation if we are talking off service rotations. Derner does a lot of interesting cases that you probably won’t see anywhere else…don’t expect to do them though. Creech also sometimes does cool recon stuff. And then they get their typical bread and butter cases from other attendings. But one thing that’s lacking at this program is no real clinic which imo is a big reason why I didn’t notice attending’s and residents talking about cases beforehand. Several times I would ask a resident if they had pre op XRs and they didn’t because they didn’t have access to the EMR or that was the excuse I’d been given. Just think it’s odd to go do surgery on someone and you haven’t even seen their pre op XRs until 15 minutes before the case. They talk about cases during radiology rads though.

Mount Auburn is good for Basile and that’s it. The Cooks are okay but I felt like the residents spent too much time in clinic. And they were very annoying about being associated with Harvard. there are definitely worse programs to end up at but it’s not a program I’d put in my list of top northeast programs.

One Philly program I’d recommend is UPenn…problem is that it’s four years. The rest are all garbage. Same with the NJ programs. Even Jersey Shore isn’t good. Fleming being there didn’t change things. The residents did not get the blade much. UPMC used to be great but with the loss of Burns and their Ortho trauma rotation, I’m not sure how they’re gonna recover from that. West Penn is great for recon and bread and butter but just know they don’t do trauma.

NYC programs….LOL

For Florida programs East Orlando, JFK, Westside and Bethesda. The rest are a joke and struggle to get their numbers…I’m talking digits, first rays etc

Midwest programs you have Ascension in Wisconsin (I think it’s name changed) but I’d rank that program in a top 5 if I had one. You get so much volume and so much interesting pathology all their residents are super smart and great with their hands. I was very impressed by this program. I would have went there but didn’t wanna do residency in Wisconsin. I know there’s a few in Detroit that are pretty good but no DMC is not one of them. That’s a program I’ve been told to warn students to avoid. Grant was another great program but unfortunately looks like it’s shutting down.

For West Coast you have Legacy like I mentioned, Kaiser Oakland would be another program I’d put in my top 5, the other Kaisers are solid as well, Scripps is solid if you can get the Kaiser route…Kaiser Sacramento is crazy busy and you’ll get a lot of ankle fractures. Still a good program even without the Kaiser route but def go the Kaiser route if you can. Swedish and Franciscan are also top notch programs.

I don’t know much about Texas programs. I hear JPS thrown around a lot as a great program though

Overall though just keep in mind that programs are always changing and sometimes even year to year a great program can become an okay program or an okay program can add an attending that elevates it and becomes a good one.

And finally, find the program that fits YOU. For example, for me Medstar sucks but hey if you like wounds and want to do wound care after residency then there ya go! Or maybe you’re someone who absolutely hates clinic then the Kaisers and Legacy wouldn’t be for you but a program like Inova would be etc.

In the end we are all probably going to end up practicing the same jobs but i’d rather spend my 3 years in residency seeing everything i can while learning from competent attendings who know what they’re doing and letting me actually do cases/ask questions than triple scrubbing cases and cutting toe nails in clinic but that’s just me.

Congrats you just mentioned the same programs people always mention that are all overrated

 

[FutureDPM323]

Congrats you just mentioned the same programs people always mention that are all overrated

I simply shared my thoughts on programs i’ve either externed at or know people at. Thanks for the condescending/rude response. Your opinion is that they’re all overrated. I even mentioned that some of them are. But apparently you know of programs that are much much better, why don’t you share them with us then? If we aren’t having open discussions about programs and what they’re offering then how are you going to expect this profession to get any better/weed out the “bad”
programs and separate them from the good ones.

 

[Shiyuan]

Some good sleeper programs out there with a ton of teaching docs (DPM, MD and DO) plus enough cases to feed all mouths.
I personally thought my old program was just that (East Liverpool, OH).

 

[iridocyclitiss]

Mount Auburn is good for Basile and that’s it. The Cooks are okay but I felt like the residents spent too much time in clinic. And they were very annoying about being associated with Harvard. there are definitely worse programs to end up at but it’s not a program I’d put in my list of top northeast programs.

Beth Israel is imo the best Boston program out there- They have been poaching other residency directors in the area (like Marcoux) for their staff. Total ankle and trauma at the VA, although probably not enough. They have pretty good rearfoot numbers for the northeast, and the big thing is the attendings are all very hands off so the residents do everything skin to skin.

 

[FutureDPM123]

Meant to post this back when this thread started but never got around to it:

Medstar is awful...yes I know there are far worse programs but that program is hyped up/called a good program when it simply is not and I feel students get duped into going there as a result. their own graduates and residents complain about how little blade time they actually get. Pretty sure I overheard at ACFAS this year that their second years struggle with hammer toes. And well when I rotated there as a student, let’s just say their elective case number was concerning…but they sure as heck knew how to versajet!

Legacy is a great program. It’s not talked about a ton on here because they’re in their own little bubble but if I had a top 5, Id put it on there. Between Kaiser and Legacy rotations, the residents there are seeing a lot of interesting pathology but also getting high numbers in bread and butter cases. They get the blade a good amount of time too…more than I’ve seen at a lot of places. Great balance of surgery and clinic. The program’s clinics are an example of the good clinics…the residents aren’t doing toe nails and calluses but rather seeing and working up patients different pathologies.

PSL I heard is not what it used to be. A lot of journal club/academics but very little blade time. I never rotated there so I can’t say for sure but have heard this from quite a few people in the past couple years

Inova you go there for Derner and the ortho trauma rotation. That ortho trauma rotation is probably one of the craziest ones I’ve seen but also one of the best. They also have a sick Plastics rotation if we are talking off service rotations. Derner does a lot of interesting cases that you probably won’t see anywhere else…don’t expect to do them though. Creech also sometimes does cool recon stuff. And then they get their typical bread and butter cases from other attendings. But one thing that’s lacking at this program is no real clinic which imo is a big reason why I didn’t notice attending’s and residents talking about cases beforehand. Several times I would ask a resident if they had pre op XRs and they didn’t because they didn’t have access to the EMR or that was the excuse I’d been given. Just think it’s odd to go do surgery on someone and you haven’t even seen their pre op XRs until 15 minutes before the case. They talk about cases during radiology rads though.

Mount Auburn is good for Basile and that’s it. The Cooks are okay but I felt like the residents spent too much time in clinic. And they were very annoying about being associated with Harvard. there are definitely worse programs to end up at but it’s not a program I’d put in my list of top northeast programs.

One Philly program I’d recommend is UPenn…problem is that it’s four years. The rest are all garbage. Same with the NJ programs. Even Jersey Shore isn’t good. Fleming being there didn’t change things. The residents did not get the blade much. UPMC used to be great but with the loss of Burns and their Ortho trauma rotation, I’m not sure how they’re gonna recover from that. West Penn is great for recon and bread and butter but just know they don’t do trauma.

NYC programs….LOL

For Florida programs East Orlando, JFK, Westside and Bethesda. The rest are a joke and struggle to get their numbers…I’m talking digits, first rays etc

Midwest programs you have Ascension in Wisconsin (I think it’s name changed) but I’d rank that program in a top 5 if I had one. You get so much volume and so much interesting pathology all their residents are super smart and great with their hands. I was very impressed by this program. I would have went there but didn’t wanna do residency in Wisconsin. I know there’s a few in Detroit that are pretty good but no DMC is not one of them. That’s a program I’ve been told to warn students to avoid. Grant was another great program but unfortunately looks like it’s shutting down.

For West Coast you have Legacy like I mentioned, Kaiser Oakland would be another program I’d put in my top 5, the other Kaisers are solid as well, Scripps is solid if you can get the Kaiser route…Kaiser Sacramento is crazy busy and you’ll get a lot of ankle fractures. Still a good program even without the Kaiser route but def go the Kaiser route if you can. Swedish and Franciscan are also top notch programs.

I don’t know much about Texas programs. I hear JPS thrown around a lot as a great program though

Overall though just keep in mind that programs are always changing and sometimes even year to year a great program can become an okay program or an okay program can add an attending that elevates it and becomes a good one.

And finally, find the program that fits YOU. For example, for me Medstar sucks but hey if you like wounds and want to do wound care after residency then there ya go! Or maybe you’re someone who absolutely hates clinic then the Kaisers and Legacy wouldn’t be for you but a program like Inova would be etc.

In the end we are all probably going to end up practicing the same jobs but i’d rather spend my 3 years in residency seeing everything i can while learning from competent attendings who know what they’re doing and letting me actually do cases/ask questions than triple scrubbing cases and cutting toe nails in clinic but that’s just me.

I agree with everything you said, thanks for the detailed post!

 

[azmt4477]

Hey folks,

Someone told me about this thread, and I wanted to respond to dispel some of the myths and negativity about MedStar. After all, while some externs didn't enjoy their time, I've worked with a lot of externs who loved their experiences. Certainly, your mileage at any program varies as an extern, even on your list of "top-tier programs." Moreover, despite the inputs littered all over this thread, a lot of what you hear about any program is solely based on perpetuated rumors in a medical community that enjoys their biscuits with a large cup of tea. The only time that I felt like I knew anything about a program was when I had a close friend, who was a resident there.

Full disclosure, I am a MedStar grad. I’d like to keep myself mostly anonymous, so I won’t be revealing where I’m working or when I graduated. I chose MedStar because I wanted to train at a well-known academic center with the goal of completing a fellowship. I knew that I wanted a fellowship as a student -- simply a personal endeavor to achieve the most training possible. In speaking with my colleagues during my time as a resident, none of us felt like we needed a fellowship. I felt competent in all aspects of foot and ankle surgery ranging from a simple MIS bunion to wedge midfoot osteotomies/Charcot recon to SMOs/ExFix/TARs prior to fellowship.

I completed MedStar with over 1000 surgical first assists. I logged the minimum requirement for biomechanics and H&Ps (maybe ~120 total?? honestly can't remember). I'm also not proud to say this, but I likely left out about 100-150 first assists from stickers that I lost throughout my years (sorry Dr. Steinberg). My numbers are considered low for MedStar's standards. Even with classes of 8 graduates, it was announced that someone had 1700 surgical first assists during one of our past graduations. While these are not the highest in the country, they certainly aren't "low" with any concern for volume/diversity/quality.

Before you ask: no, most of my cases were not limb salvage. In fact, the vast majority of my procedures were elective/recon. For a very rough estimation, I would say maybe 1/3 of my cases were "dirty". The majority of these were in the first year and a small part of second year. I didn't log a single "dirty" case in my third year except for local muscle flaps or some rotational flaps that I was proud of while on Limb service.

Yes, our inpatient hours are atrocious. Sorry. Georgetown and WHC are high referral centers in a dense metropolitan area...Not sure what to tell you. It gets significantly better second and third year. MedStar follows the format of a true intern year, where the majority of what you learn is inpatient care (this is true across all surgical specialties). You do NOT take podiatry calls while on another service. You'll be in the ICU managing vents/pressors, in the trauma bay putting in chest tubes and doing clamshell thoracotomies, and on GUH Limb managing 40+ very sick primary patients. You are expected to function on the level of any medical/surgical resident on these offservice rotations. The goal is to learn how to be a physician first before you become a technician. I felt like I was just as competent as any MD resident in managing complicated patients. In your second year, you are in the OR from sunrise to way past sunset-- 80% of your day is surgery. These were truly some of the best times in residency.

It seems like the "FutureDPM" accounts had a poor experience at MedStar. Firstly, I apologize that it was unsatisfactory. DC is expensive, and I appreciate you taking the time to be there. The MedStar externship doesn't do the program justice in showing its scope. As residents, we knew this, but what could we do in face of GME limitations? Lol. Externs rotate through the two main hospitals in DC on podiatry service without exposure to the 10+ surgical/medical centers stretching from Virginia to Baltimore (yes, there's included housing when you're away). Each resident has his/her own designated region of coverage throughout these "outpatient rotations" each year. Residents work with a lot of attendings outside the two hospitals with partnerships in ortho clinics/pod clinics whose vast outpatient experiences complement our strong inpatient services.

With all of that said, I am very proud to have graduated from MedStar. It's one of the toughest processes of my life, but I would pick this residency every single time. DC is a great city. I met a lot of great people outside of work and helped a lot of patients along the way.

P.S. I'm really posting because I don't want prospective applicants to be turned away by a few disgruntled individuals. I don't really go on here much. Feel free to argue/reply as you will. Even when I was a student, this network could either be supportive or entirely ignorant and toxic.

Sorry for the many edits. I was typing on my phone and things got truncated lol.

 

[JustAPedicurist]

The problem with a program who is heavy on inpatient work is that it easily just turns into just bitch work and not a learning experience.

 

[Shiyuan]

The problem with a program who is heavy on inpatient work is that it easily just turns into just bitch work and not a learning experience.

Amen, brother.

I remember getting nail care consults in the psych ward 😒 ... great learning.

 

[Glgll]

I know 5 different people who call Emory the worst program they’ve been to. To each their own, but that’s why I have it on the list as such.

I really wonder where did FutureDPM123 go for residency lol funny af

 

[Pronation]

Hey folks,

Someone told me about this thread, and I wanted to respond to dispel some of the myths and negativity about MedStar. After all, while some externs didn't enjoy their time, I've worked with a lot of externs who loved their experiences. Certainly, your mileage at any program varies as an extern, even on your list of "top-tier programs." Moreover, despite the inputs littered all over this thread, a lot of what you hear about any program is solely based on perpetuated rumors in a medical community that enjoys their biscuits with a large cup of tea. The only time that I felt like I knew anything about a program was when I had a close friend, who was a resident there.

Full disclosure, I am a MedStar grad. I’d like to keep myself mostly anonymous, so I won’t be revealing where I’m working or when I graduated. I chose MedStar because I wanted to train at a well-known academic center with the goal of completing a fellowship. I knew that I wanted a fellowship as a student -- simply a personal endeavor to achieve the most training possible. In speaking with my colleagues during my time as a resident, none of us felt like we needed a fellowship. I felt competent in all aspects of foot and ankle surgery ranging from a simple MIS bunion to wedge midfoot osteotomies/Charcot recon to SMOs/ExFix/TARs prior to fellowship.

I completed MedStar with over 1000 surgical first assists. I logged the minimum requirement for biomechanics and H&Ps (maybe ~120 total?? honestly can't remember). I'm also not proud to say this, but I likely left out about 100-150 first assists from stickers that I lost throughout my years (sorry Dr. Steinberg). My numbers are considered low for MedStar's standards. Even with classes of 8 graduates, it was announced that someone had 1700 surgical first assists during one of our past graduations. While these are not the highest in the country, they certainly aren't "low" with any concern for volume/diversity/quality.

Before you ask: no, most of my cases were not limb salvage. In fact, the vast majority of my procedures were elective/recon. For a very rough estimation, I would say maybe 1/3 of my cases were "dirty". The majority of these were in the first year and a small part of second year. I didn't log a single "dirty" case in my third year except for local muscle flaps or some rotational flaps that I was proud of while on Limb service.

Yes, our inpatient hours are atrocious. Sorry. Georgetown and WHC are high referral centers in a dense metropolitan area...Not sure what to tell you. It gets significantly better second and third year. MedStar follows the format of a true intern year, where the majority of what you learn is inpatient care (this is true across all surgical specialties). You do NOT take podiatry calls while on another service. You'll be in the ICU managing vents/pressors, in the trauma bay putting in chest tubes and doing clamshell thoracotomies, and on GUH Limb managing 40+ very sick primary patients. You are expected to function on the level of any medical/surgical resident on these offservice rotations. The goal is to learn how to be a physician first before you become a technician. I felt like I was just as competent as any MD resident in managing complicated patients. In your second year, you are in the OR from sunrise to way past sunset-- 80% of your day is surgery. These were truly some of the best times in residency.

It seems like the "FutureDPM" accounts had a poor experience at MedStar. Firstly, I apologize that it was unsatisfactory. DC is expensive, and I appreciate you taking the time to be there. The MedStar externship doesn't do the program justice in showing its scope. As residents, we knew this, but what could we do in face of GME limitations? Lol. Externs rotate through the two main hospitals in DC on podiatry service without exposure to the 10+ surgical/medical centers stretching from Virginia to Baltimore (yes, there's included housing when you're away). Each resident has his/her own designated region of coverage throughout these "outpatient rotations" each year. Residents work with a lot of attendings outside the two hospitals with partnerships in ortho clinics/pod clinics whose vast outpatient experiences complement our strong inpatient services.

With all of that said, I am very proud to have graduated from MedStar. It's one of the toughest processes of my life, but I would pick this residency every single time. DC is a great city. I met a lot of great people outside of work and helped a lot of patients along the way.

P.S. I'm really posting because I don't want prospective applicants to be turned away by a few disgruntled individuals. I don't really go on here much. Feel free to argue/reply as you will. Even when I was a student, this network could either be supportive or entirely ignorant and toxic.

Sorry for the many edits. I was typing on my phone and things got truncated lol.

We all know people who rotated at MedStar and your description is the complete opposite of what we've heard historically. Also the fact that a MedStar grad states they felt competent doing SMOs and TARs straight out of this pus heavy program is wildly different from other's accounts. Something doesn't add up here.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

We all know people who rotated at MedStar and your description is the complete opposite of what we've heard historically. Also the fact that a MedStar grad states they felt competent doing SMOs and TARs straight out of this pus heavy program is wildly different from other's accounts. Something doesn't add up here.

Agreed. Medstar has graduated numerous residents who needed to/ went on to complete fellowships to gain experience in TARs and complex recon. If the baseline residency training was sufficient this would not be the case.

Some residents do fellowships to distinguish themselves or "try" to distinguish themselves from other podiatrists in attempt to get better job opportunities. Some graduates seem to do fellowships because they really "need" to. Everyone has different needs.

But historically there have been an awful lot of Medstar residents who went on to do fellowships.

 

[azmt4477]

We all know people who rotated at MedStar and your description is the complete opposite of what we've heard historically. Also the fact that a MedStar grad states they felt competent doing SMOs and TARs straight out of this pus heavy program is wildly different from other's accounts. Something doesn't add up here.

Haha this forum is literally still crowded with the same type of people.

The key word is “rotated,” which I addressed above regarding the externship experience.

As for the rest, to the prospective externs, I encourage you to ask for PGY3 logs regardless of where you go. I don’t feel like people do this enough on externships.

No, I’m not publishing my logs through unprotected network, especially since they now include spreadsheets that I use for hospital credentialing.

For what retrograde_nail/pronation said, I spoke in the perspective of my class and my personal competence. Through the years, MedStar grads had gone directly to private practice, most like myself went to fellowship for our own reasons, and others went directly to teaching institutions. Not all graduates went to fellowship. And believe it or not, not everyone wants to put in a TAR or round on ExFixes in the morning. SMOs are pretty fun though— they’re actually pretty easy once you get the hang of it. The Baltimore Limb Deformity Course as a PGY3 taught me a good bit outside of surgical cases.

Everyone was encouraged to do fellowship because of the MedStar culture, but the resources were there for whatever they needed. I extracted what I wanted out of residency, and I loved my training.

No residency is perfect. I’m sure you can take jabs at any program/fellowship/rotations all day long. For example, as an intern, I enjoyed learning the medicine and having autonomy in treating primary patients. However, to outsiders, this was easily “bitch work.”

There are so many keyboard warriors in podiatry. The tea must be delicious.

 

[calvinklein]

Haha this forum is literally still crowded with the same type of people.

The key word is “rotated,” which I addressed above regarding the externship experience.

As for the rest, to the prospective externs, I encourage you to ask for PGY3 logs regardless of where you go. I don’t feel like people do this enough on externships.

No, I’m not publishing my logs through unprotected network, especially since they now include spreadsheets that I use for hospital credentialing.

For what retrograde_nail/pronation said, I spoke in the perspective of my class and my personal competence. Through the years, MedStar grads had gone directly to private practice, most like myself went to fellowship for our own reasons, and others went directly to teaching institutions. Not all graduates went to fellowship. And believe it or not, not everyone wants to put in a TAR or round on ExFixes in the morning. SMOs are pretty fun though— they’re actually pretty easy once you get the hang of it. The Baltimore Limb Deformity Course as a PGY3 taught me a good bit outside of surgical cases.

Everyone was encouraged to do fellowship because of the MedStar culture, but the resources were there for whatever they needed. I extracted what I wanted out of residency, and I loved my training.

No residency is perfect. I’m sure you can take jabs at any program/fellowship/rotations all day long. For example, as an intern, I enjoyed learning the medicine and having autonomy in treating primary patients. However, to outsiders, this was easily “bitch work.”

There are so many keyboard warriors in podiatry. The tea must be delicious.

Thank you for your insight as a graduating resident. I think most of us however find this hard to believe for many reasons. For starters, Woundstar is the only program I know where multiple residents have completed 2 podiatry fellowships. I think we can all agree 2 years of a podiatry fellowship isn’t needed if the foundations were there in residency training

 

[azmt4477]

Thank you for your insight as a graduating resident. I think most of us however find this hard to believe for many reasons. For starters, Woundstar is the only program I know where multiple residents have completed 2 podiatry fellowships. I think we can all agree 2 years of a podiatry fellowship isn’t needed if the foundations were there in residency training

lol I obviously won’t speak on their behalf in order to avoid churning the rumor mill about their personal lives on an Internet forum.

As I previously mentioned, I felt like I didn’t need a fellowship (besides maybe coding/billing— this is new info if you want to use it against me). However, I was set on doing a fellowship since I was a student. I gained tremendous insight into industry/consulting as well as how to start/staff a successful practice. I built a good relationship with another mentor who I could count on for advice and support. Overall it was a win on top of my residency basics. Obviously, that’s off topic.

I really just came here to give the experience of a MedStar grad to any student/applicant that is doing research.

I’m not trying to change the opinions of members who have held steadfast notions about MedStar from years of grapevine radio lol. Wasn’t the saying something like “ a man convinced against his will holds the same opinion still?” I could be wrong, but you get the idea.

 

[calvinklein]

lol I know who these individuals are. I won’t speak on their behalf in order to avoid churning the rumor mill about their personal lives and credibilities on an Internet forum.

As I previously mentioned, I felt like I didn’t need a fellowship (besides maybe coding/billing— this is new info if you want to use it against me). However, I was set on doing a fellowship since I was a student. I gained tremendous insight into industry/consulting as well as how to start/staff a successful practice. I built a good relationship with another director/mentor who I could count on for advice. Overall it was a win on top of my residency basics. Obviously, that’s off topic.

I really just came here to give the experience of a MedStar grad to any student/applicant that is doing research.

I’m not trying to change any opinions of the members who have held steadfast notions about MedStar from years of grapevine radio lol. Wasn’t the saying something like “ a man convinced against his will holds the same opinion still?” I could be wrong, but you get the idea.

Appreciate your responses. Especially as an attending who graduated from the program. The mentorship Dr. Steinberg provides is second to none. Despite my criticisms of Medstar as a whole, having him as a mentor would definitely go a long way in any residents careers. Prospective students should take that into consideration. But also remember the versajet will be there best friend at the end of the training (sorry I had to 😂)

 

[azmt4477]

Appreciate your responses. Especially as an attending who graduated from the program. The mentorship Dr. Steinberg provides is second to none. Despite my criticisms of Medstar as a whole, having him as a mentor would definitely go a long way in any residents careers. Prospective students should take that into consideration. But also remember the versajet will be there best friend at the end of the training (sorry I had to 😂)

Haha well, the program changed every year based on resident feedback. During my time as a resident, we always held retreats to make small improvements for the next year. Of course, except for the Versajet— that was a MedStar tried and true. I could have moonlighted and trimmed hedges with it.

 

[FutureDPM323]

I know several grads from medstar and several residents there right now. what i wrote is a combo of my extern experience as well as things they’ve told me about their program that they experience. maybe some residents have crappy luck and are having a different experience than those of you doing SMOs and TARs there. No sarcasm either. I know things change year to year and i also know sometimes you go on service with the bigger name attendings and suddenly they’re not doing as much as usual. so people can have different experiences in residency.

they did all say that Steinberg has their back though and tries his best to advocate for his residents. i’ve never heard a bad thing said about him in fact he’s probably the selling point for the program because of how supportive he is.

honestly though, @Feli is right. Its all a bunch of he said, she said. so to any perspective student just ask a third year resident for their logs and ask to see the breakdown of the cases they’re doing. and this goes for any program you rotate at. then you can actually see for yourself the kind of cases they’re doing throughout their residency and not just in the month you’re there. also gives you an idea of what they’re doing at their surgery centers. probably the most concrete way to know exactly what they’re doing at the program.

 

[Feli]

In the end, most of us have only spent any meaningful time at 5 to 7 programs at most (PI, StJohn Main Detroit, DMC, UPenn, West Penn for me... visited Oakwood/Beaumont Wayne). Most students didn't do all top program clerkships. Many did not match at their top choice... or even any of their clerkships, so there is often sour grapes there. People have different learning style, different confidence/autonomy, and different personality/social style. Regardless, nobody has clerked at 10+ or 20+ programs (and stayed up to date on them!).

It'll all be hearsay and opinion regarding residency programs, but we do know a lot of DPM programs are totally inadequate. So, I think it's good to respect the half or so that are adequate and definitely recognize the 25% or so that are good/great in terms of volume, attendings, etc.

After that, it's up to the student/clerk as to what they want. It's always best to seek the top training one can find and match to. It's a life-changing decision (skills, knowledge, ABFAS board pass, jobs, networking, etc) as to what residencies to visit, interview, and rank.

...that program is hyped up/called a good program when it simply is not and I feel students get duped into going there as a result. ...

...Pretty sure I overheard at ACFAS this year that ... ...I heard is not what it used to be... ... I never rotated there so I can’t say for sure but have heard...
... which imo is a big reason why...
...there are definitely worse programs to end up at but it’s not a program I’d put in my list of top northeast programs...

...UPMC used to be great but with the loss of Burns and their Ortho trauma rotation, I’m not sure how they’re gonna recover from that. West Penn is great for recon and bread and butter but just know they don’t do trauma.

... I’d rank that program in a top 5 if I had one. You get so much volume and so much interesting pathology all their residents are super smart and great with their hands. I was very impressed by this program...
...that’s a program I’ve been told to warn students to avoid.
... I hear JPS thrown around a lot as a great program though...
...but that’s just me.

I know several grads from medstar and several residents there right now. what i wrote is a combo of my extern experience as well as things they’ve told me about their program that they experience... ... Those things came out of the lips of a resident and now graduate from there and it’s not the first time i’ve heard that. maybe some residents have crappy luck and are having a different experience than those of you doing SMOs and TARs there.

... i’ve never heard a bad thing said about him in fact he’s probably the selling point for the program because of how supportive i’ve heard he is so there’s that.

This is what I am talking about bolded above... it's basically all hearsay or total rumors. I'm not sure that's concrete info. We are talking about places we've never been (much like bickering about pod schools when nobody has attended more than maybe two at most).
Not knocking anyone in particular or any residency program, but it's simply NOT possible to have good current intel on many programs without hearsay and second/third/etc hand (supposed) info. I don't know that we can do much more than provide lists of generally good quality programs or poor quality ones, so why not just do that? It's impossible to review and describe a dozen or two dozen programs' pro/con without risking much misinformation. I think we've all played that game "telephone" as kids?

...For example, West Penn gets elite elective recon (obviously... since they publish it), but they also have adequate trauma, contrary to above: "don't do trauma." They have virtually 100% alumni ABFAS BQ pass rate (which obviously includes trauma knowledge). I watched multiple West Penn attendings reduce and residents splint stuff in their main hospital ER. I saw numerous ORIF personally and on the schedule in my one month rotation. They also do cadaver lab and sawbone and rep workshops regularly. Are they on the level of some other top programs for trauma (KY, Det, JPS, etc)? No, not for trauma volume... but they cover it adequately and tend to have have more quality/diverse elective and academics than those peers. Residency PMSR thread will have much more current info and exp of clerks. Either way, they have top notch attendings, so sometimes you don't need to see it 100x over if you do good academics and have good teachers. It's is a solid program, worth visiting and far above average... even with Mendo moved on.

 

[Pronation]

Please tell me what attending medstar residents are rotating with and regularly doing TARs for a grad to claim that they were “competent” in doing them. Otherwise I’m going to flat out say that there is some lying going on here.

 

[azmt4477]

Please tell me what attending medstar residents are rotating with and regularly doing TARs for a grad to claim that they were “competent” in doing them. Otherwise I’m going to flat out say that there is some lying going on here.

🤷‍♂️ nah. That would reveal my graduating year, and more importantly involve people who aren’t part of this conversation. I have respect for the privacy of my attendings.

I don’t understand why people see TAR as this deity in foot and ankle? They’re mostly templated with a single anterior incision for the majority of end stage DJD. Unless it’s a complicated staged correction, just follow the guide or just listen to the rep. It’s really not that hard. The rest is just anatomy. Perhaps you’re projecting some of the personal challenges/frustration you had while learning this? Lol.

As an aside, I’m still not trying to replace a 70 year old lady with 20 degrees frontal and saggital deformity whose medial mal is threatening to explode when I try to clear the medial gutter while at the same time, the patient is requesting to have the same ADLs as what she had when she was a teenager so she can leap into to the arms of her husband…I have no interest in these cases.

 

[Pronation]

🤷‍♂️ nah. That would reveal my graduating year, and more importantly involve people who aren’t part of this conversation. I have respect for the privacy of my attendings.

I don’t understand why people see TAR as this deity in foot and ankle? They’re mostly templated with a single anterior incision for the majority of end stage DJD. Unless it’s a complicated staged correction, just follow the guide or just listen to the rep. It’s really not that hard. The rest is just anatomy. Perhaps you’re projecting some of the personal challenges/frustration you had while learning this? Lol.

As an aside, I’m still not trying to replace a 70 year old lady with 20 degrees frontal and saggital deformity whose medial mal is threatening to explode when I try to clear the medial gutter while at the same time, the patient is requesting to have the same ADLs as what she had when she was a teenager so she can leap into to the arms of her husband…I have no interest in these cases.

You keep going off on these tangents about doing TARs while I’m simply calling you out on the fact that the TAR training at your former residency doesn’t exist. Stop spreading lies.

 

[azmt4477]

You keep going off on these tangents about doing TARs while I’m simply calling you out on the fact that the TAR training at your former residency doesn’t exist. Stop spreading lies.

Uh the training existed, and residents continue to graduate with them. Haha 😂.This is silly.

 

[JustAPedicurist]

TAR’s are garbage anyways. Just fuse it.

 

[Feli]

TAR’s are garbage anyways. Just fuse it.

Truth^

But I hear if you do TAR or talk about it enough, your DPM degree flips backwards, then the P goes away?
...nah, nevermind, a lot of good ortho F&A don't do TAR either (since they're highly questionable and very seldom needed).

 

[MalleableMan]

@xzippyx You don’t need to defend Steinberg’s program to these guys. This forum is just a cesspool of s***-throwing. Even if there is anything positive to say, there’ll be heavy sarcasm and slander involved.

 

[air bud]

@xzippyx You don’t need to defend Steinberg’s program to these guys. This forum is just a cesspool of s***-throwing. Even if there is anything positive to say, there’ll be heavy sarcasm and slander involved.

You are well studied in the SDNverse

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Hey folks,

Someone told me about this thread, and I wanted to respond to dispel some of the myths and negativity about MedStar. After all, while some externs didn't enjoy their time, I've worked with a lot of externs who loved their experiences. Certainly, your mileage at any program varies as an extern, even on your list of "top-tier programs." Moreover, despite the inputs littered all over this thread, a lot of what you hear about any program is solely based on perpetuated rumors in a medical community that enjoys their biscuits with a large cup of tea. The only time that I felt like I knew anything about a program was when I had a close friend, who was a resident there.

Full disclosure, I am a MedStar grad. I’d like to keep myself mostly anonymous, so I won’t be revealing where I’m working or when I graduated. I chose MedStar because I wanted to train at a well-known academic center with the goal of completing a fellowship. I knew that I wanted a fellowship as a student -- simply a personal endeavor to achieve the most training possible. In speaking with my colleagues during my time as a resident, none of us felt like we needed a fellowship. I felt competent in all aspects of foot and ankle surgery ranging from a simple MIS bunion to wedge midfoot osteotomies/Charcot recon to SMOs/ExFix/TARs prior to fellowship.

I completed MedStar with over 1000 surgical first assists. I logged the minimum requirement for biomechanics and H&Ps (maybe ~120 total?? honestly can't remember). I'm also not proud to say this, but I likely left out about 100-150 first assists from stickers that I lost throughout my years (sorry Dr. Steinberg). My numbers are considered low for MedStar's standards. Even with classes of 8 graduates, it was announced that someone had 1700 surgical first assists during one of our past graduations. While these are not the highest in the country, they certainly aren't "low" with any concern for volume/diversity/quality.

Before you ask: no, most of my cases were not limb salvage. In fact, the vast majority of my procedures were elective/recon. For a very rough estimation, I would say maybe 1/3 of my cases were "dirty". The majority of these were in the first year and a small part of second year. I didn't log a single "dirty" case in my third year except for local muscle flaps or some rotational flaps that I was proud of while on Limb service.

Yes, our inpatient hours are atrocious. Sorry. Georgetown and WHC are high referral centers in a dense metropolitan area...Not sure what to tell you. It gets significantly better second and third year. MedStar follows the format of a true intern year, where the majority of what you learn is inpatient care (this is true across all surgical specialties). You do NOT take podiatry calls while on another service. You'll be in the ICU managing vents/pressors, in the trauma bay putting in chest tubes and doing clamshell thoracotomies, and on GUH Limb managing 40+ very sick primary patients. You are expected to function on the level of any medical/surgical resident on these offservice rotations. The goal is to learn how to be a physician first before you become a technician. I felt like I was just as competent as any MD resident in managing complicated patients. In your second year, you are in the OR from sunrise to way past sunset-- 80% of your day is surgery. These were truly some of the best times in residency.

It seems like the "FutureDPM" accounts had a poor experience at MedStar. Firstly, I apologize that it was unsatisfactory. DC is expensive, and I appreciate you taking the time to be there. The MedStar externship doesn't do the program justice in showing its scope. As residents, we knew this, but what could we do in face of GME limitations? Lol. Externs rotate through the two main hospitals in DC on podiatry service without exposure to the 10+ surgical/medical centers stretching from Virginia to Baltimore (yes, there's included housing when you're away). Each resident has his/her own designated region of coverage throughout these "outpatient rotations" each year. Residents work with a lot of attendings outside the two hospitals with partnerships in ortho clinics/pod clinics whose vast outpatient experiences complement our strong inpatient services.

With all of that said, I am very proud to have graduated from MedStar. It's one of the toughest processes of my life, but I would pick this residency every single time. DC is a great city. I met a lot of great people outside of work and helped a lot of patients along the way.

P.S. I'm really posting because I don't want prospective applicants to be turned away by a few disgruntled individuals. I don't really go on here much. Feel free to argue/reply as you will. Even when I was a student, this network could either be supportive or entirely ignorant and toxic.

Sorry for the many edits. I was typing on my phone and things got truncated lol.

I love this post. I love how you embrace the idea you were on the same level as the MD/DO residents because you did the same off service rotations and pretended to be a real doc.

These experiences would actually matter if you could maintain that kind of scope after you graduated residency. The sad part is your scope becomes significantly limited once you graduate. Podiatry failed you in that respect.

You did all this intense off service training that doesn’t matter and as soon as you graduated the NPs and PAs just passed you in terms of legitimacy in the medicine world. Podiatry failed you.

Stop defending your Medstar training because it doesn’t mean anything. You wasted a year when you could have used that time to become more competent in something that will actually put food on your table like surgery and learning to master foot and ankle pathology.

This is why so many Medstar residents do fellowships.

 

[MalleableMan]

I love this post. I love how you embrace the idea you were on the same level as the MD/DO residents because you did the same off service rotations and pretended to be a real doc.

These experiences would actually matter if you could maintain that kind of scope after you graduated residency. The sad part is your scope becomes significantly limited once you graduate. Podiatry failed you in that respect.

You did all this intense off service training that doesn’t matter and as soon as you graduated the NPs and PAs just passed you in terms of legitimacy in the medicine world. Podiatry failed you.

Stop defending your Medstar training because it doesn’t mean anything. You wasted a year when you could have used that time to become more competent in something that will actually put food on your table like surgery and learning to master foot and ankle pathology.

This is why so many Medstar residents do fellowships.

It isn’t necessarily a waste to learn how to manage complex pathology on other services. And people should not be chastised for pursuing training that fits their needs. Sounds like that kind of training would have been wasted on you though.

 

[Feli]

It isn’t necessarily a waste to learn how to manage complex pathology on other services. And people should not be chastised for pursuing training that fits their needs. Sounds like that kind of training would have been wasted on you though.

It is a huge waste if you then end up doing a fellowship year to learn the advanced F&A surgery, which could have been learned in the 3yrs residency.

I think a lot of podiatry resident programs do a many months off-service months because they simply don't have enough meaningful F&A cases (especially ones done by DPMs) going on. This was my frequent experience on clerkships: that first year residents were doing non-podiatry rotations, and when they were on podiatry, they were rounding, doing I&Ds, and waiting for the ER to call. If they did scrub in, they were maybe 3rd assist (why bother). Those were programs I didn't apply to interview with.

Similarly, some of the best (again, jmo) programs have so many F&A cases by DPMs going on that they're often recalling their off-service residents - at least for the morning - to cover a few cases so the attending will have one person there. My program did 12 months non-pod and 24mo pod but did that 'borrow somebody to cover [DPM foot] cases' frequently... sometimes had to even send just a rotating clerk student to a case alone so there would be someone there to first assist. That is the type of volume to look for. I found this abundance of bone/joint F&A surgery by DPMs to be a recur theme among programs I considered. I was always glad to get back to my pod rotations after off-service... I'd study for boards or do research or look for jobs off-service months (and yeah, it was a big teach hospital and I did see good non-pod stuff.. particularly vasc, plastics, trauma, ER). In the end, though, it's mostly "use it or lose it." Rotations I saw as a student or resident don't change my degree or scope. I don't do central lines or talk down schizos or staple scalp lacs or infuse DKA inpts much nowadays, lol.

...At the end of the day, residency programs in podiatry vary WIDELY in terms of their academics, surgery volume, non-podiatry exp. Many are hastily crated programs that were not surgical until fairly recently (or a few PPMR/PSR-12 type programs cobbled together to make a surgical residency), some are VAs ones created to prevent residency shortage, some are new and high quality, and some have been good for decades. Some have good volume of podiatry surgery, and I think many dump their residents on away rotations to disguise the limited volume or the fact they take too many residents per year. People will choose/match what they like...100%. Many take what they can get, and they then tend to also say that's what they had wanted. If we didn't have so many students graduating and all promised "three year surgical training," we wouldn't have so many of these issues. We need more good programs/spots and fewer questionable students/grads. Bottom line.

I can say that, as an attending, I've never spent more than maybe 5% of my weekly time on rounding/ER (that was max, at hospital job, during my on-call stretches due to required call). Right now, that's maybe 1-2% of my time doing that stuff... and that's how PP is for the vast majority of DPMs (assuming you're not a junior associate with mandated call in a group that targets consults/inpt work). For me, the 98 or 99% rest is pod office and pod surgery or charts/paperwork... which is what most residents should be mainly learning by doing. Again, it's an individual choice, but we don't live forever... and I sure hope we don't train/work forever.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

It isn’t necessarily a waste to learn how to manage complex pathology on other services. And people should not be chastised for pursuing training that fits their needs. Sounds like that kind of training would have been wasted on you though.

You missed the entire point of my post. Where do you work? Private practice? Hospital? Maybe you do not appreciate what I said because you are in PP and you are surrounded by other podiatrists who think these are excellent opportunities.

I work in a hospital I honestly hate that I am limited by my scope when I went through rigorous off service rotations functioning just like a MD/DO resident and managing complex pathology outside of the foot and ankle. I did all this residency training only to be superseded by an NP who did like 500 hours of patient care while getting their NP degree and now all of sudden they have more scope of practice than me. Even when it comes to wound care which is INSANE. But this is podiatry after all and nothing that leadership cares about makes sense or has any organized vision.

 

[Feli]

...But this is podiatry after all and nothing that leadership cares about makes sense or has any organized vision.

Correct.

All of the recently added minimum 3 year residency for ever DPM, required off-service rotations, talk of pod students taking USMLE, opening new pod schools "can't shrink the profession to prosperity," pushing for DO pod schools, etc is easy to promote and require for people who didn't have to do it. Follow the money. I'm not saying it is all bad, but follow the money. Figure out the vested interests here. Older DPMs benefit from this stuff more than anyone else as they can tout how well podiatrists are trained, that they go to school with osteopaths, and how competent podiatrists are... without doing much/any of it themselves or having the huge time and $$ burden to do it.

It is the same self-serving argument from the lesser and fake podiatry boards: blah blah education and residency training is so good, all DPMs should just pass and be board cert. It's coat tailing... and if we had better residencies and fewer schools with more selectivity, it'd lessen quite a bit. People would just pass, the way MDs nearly all do. It's sad the way it is.

...For the student/resident, the goal should be to get no-nonsense training, MANY cases, proficient, pass (real) boards, good alumni and co-residents beside you... and do that all as quick as reasonably possible since you were already $300k+ in student debt on the first day of residency nowadays.

 

[MalleableMan]

You missed the entire point of my post. Where do you work? Private practice? Hospital? Maybe you do not appreciate what I said because you are in PP and you are surrounded by other podiatrists who think these are excellent opportunities.

I work in a hospital I honestly hate that I am limited by my scope when I went through rigorous off service rotations functioning just like a MD/DO resident and managing complex pathology outside of the foot and ankle. I did all this residency training only to be superseded by an NP who did like 500 hours of patient care while getting their NP degree and now all of sudden they have more scope of practice than me. Even when it comes to wound care which is INSANE. But this is podiatry after all and nothing that leadership cares about makes sense or has any organized vision.

I am hospital employed. I trained at a residency program with tough off service rotations and I did a fellowship. I wouldn’t say any of my time was wasted. I had my sights set on where I would eventually work and how I would get there and fortunately for me that is how it played out for me. I take care of sick patients. I don’t do it on my own, there’s a team involved, but I’m an important part of the team. I do elective surgery, sports, recon as well, and I need to do my own pre-op evaluations.

Fortunately I’m in a setting where I’m getting the opportunity to be involved with administrative duties like implant approval committees for all surgical services, quality improvement, etc and training in a hospital environment prepared me for it.

I understand where you’re coming from, but to say my program did a disservice by giving me the chance to learn those skills isn’t true.

I am careful to relay my opinions based on my experiences. I don’t think it’s right that the frequent posters on this forum render judgment about others’ training choices based on programs they may have rotated at more than half a decade ago. Your ideal set up for practice may not be the same as mine.