Officially Withdrew AMA

[unusualonion]

Repost from a different, and at the time, inappropriate thread but I wanted to repost to open it up to any other pod students who feel this way, or are thinking of pulling the trigger on leaving:

Made my decision to jump ship, get my old (65k/yr) research job back, and apply PA while organizing an accelerated BSN then NP route as a back up. Made a 50k oopsie on pod school and I geininuenly feel duped and lied-to by by post-bacc advisor and the administration. I know i bear the responsibility of matriculating and staying. The "doc" title aint worth the headache and I dont have the business skills or drive to go solo practice. Nor do i have the mental fortitude to be 1 of 100 applicants for 20 decent jobs nationally. Job boards (podiatrycareers dot com, and APMA website) literally prove this, also BLS stats are like a growth of 2%... snails move faster. I want to help patients and I found, for me, that I like the ED and ICU best. No amount of "professional foot and ankle trauma reconstructionist with added CAQ in foot surgery and pus bus operator" will get me on a cardiothoracic surgery team or working in the ED.

I did the math for my situation and even factoring in the debt from leaving pod school after one year, by the same time a student in my year is out of residency, I'll hopefully be an NP/PA making middle 100k (or more depending on specialty) with less debt. All of the NP/PA jobs are w-2, nice bennies, and either shift work or stable schedule, depending on specialty. Clock in, see patients, clock out. No wondering if I've made my bills for the month or other pods sniping my privileges to keep their surgical volume. Yes i know that ill not make as much as the most successful podiatrist but ill earn similar to the broad 50% of them will with, as i perceive it, much less financial stress

Ive attached a spreadsheet that helped me get it all out on paper. I carried over some debt from undergrad which sucked but leaving now will allow me to be debt free sooner in one of two actually growing provider levels. I made a lot of assumptions about timing and salaries but used reported averages to best model it. I am also able to contribute so much of my projected salaries because I have a kick-butt significant other who endlessly supports me and is willing to take on more of the cost of living to get us out of debt sooner.

Yours in many layers,
unusualonion

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[newfeet]

Repost from a different, and at the time, inappropriate thread but I wanted to repost to open it up to any other pod students who feel this way, or are thinking of pulling the trigger on leaving:

Made my decision to jump ship, get my old (65k/yr) research job back, and apply PA while organizing an accelerated BSN then NP route as a back up. Made a 50k oopsie on pod school and I geininuenly feel duped and lied-to by by post-bacc advisor and the administration. I know i bear the responsibility of matriculating and staying. The "doc" title aint worth the headache and I dont have the business skills or drive to go solo practice. Nor do i have the mental fortitude to be 1 of 100 applicants for 20 decent jobs nationally. Job boards (podiatrycareers dot com, and APMA website) literally prove this, also BLS stats are like a growth of 2%... snails move faster. I want to help patients and I found, for me, that I like the ED and ICU best. No amount of "professional foot and ankle trauma reconstructionist with added CAQ in foot surgery and pus bus operator" will get me on a cardiothoracic surgery team or working in the ED.

I did the math for my situation and even factoring in the debt from leaving pod school after one year, by the same time a student in my year is out of residency, I'll hopefully be an NP/PA making middle 100k (or more depending on specialty) with less debt. All of the NP/PA jobs are w-2, nice bennies, and either shift work or stable schedule, depending on specialty. Clock in, see patients, clock out. No wondering if I've made my bills for the month or other pods sniping my privileges to keep their surgical volume. Yes i know that ill not make as much as the most successful podiatrist but ill earn similar to the broad 50% of them will with, as i perceive it, much less financial stress

Ive attached a spreadsheet that helped me get it all out on paper. I carried over some debt from undergrad which sucked but leaving now will allow me to be debt free sooner in one of two actually growing provider levels. I made a lot of assumptions about timing and salaries but used reported averages to best model it. I am also able to contribute so much of my projected salaries because I have a kick-butt significant other who endlessly supports me and is willing to take on more of the cost of living to get us out of debt sooner.

Yours in many layers,
unusualonion

Congrats on leaving school. The only reason I made through podiatry school was my general interest (preventing amputations) in medical school aligned with podiatry school in a way I didnt even need to change my essay. But the last 8/9 years as an attending has been rough. Not being able to say I want to live here and then finding jobs in the area makes podiatry completely unworth it. It puts a strain on relationships. I say that even though most of my podiatry related student loans are gone. Really congrats on not putting yourself in the situation. Get the PA or the NP you will be way more flexible in the future.

 

[Pronation]

Can’t really argue with the math and risk vs reward theory behind your decision making process. More power to you.

 

[Podstar]

If I could go back and do it all again I would probably go for CRNA.

 

[bloxxeeey]

Congrats man, I would've gone that route too. It's not easy but it's definitely more stable and better income wise for quite some time. I wish I made the jump my first year, there were red flags at my school but you get so into it, you tend to overlook it. Glad you did.

 

[SouthPod7]

Hey, that's awesome! Congratulations for making that decision! This career has become largely non-viable for the overwhelming majority of people (I know there are people reading this thinking that it won't be them and they will find a great job but if they were really special they probably wouldn't be in podiatry school to begin with).

I think it's very brave and insightful of you to make that decision before you wasted any more time and money. I hope more pre-pods and pod students read what you wrote and see that it is possible to find a satisfying and rewarding career in healthcare as a PA, NP or CRNA. Personally, I don't think DO school should be out of reach for anybody and I would strongly recommend any pre-pod to retake the MCAT or do a post-bacc.

 

[unusualonion]

If I could go back and do it all again I would probably go for CRNA.

Thats the great thing if I end up going the NP route, I can work in an OR and see if CRNA interests me or not. No investment into the education to find out.

Can’t really argue with the math and risk vs reward theory behind your decision making process. More power to you.

Thanks. It wasn't purely cost/benefit analysis. It was an intense discussion with my significant other, family, and my therapist. It wasn't a rash decision or one I made on a whim.

 

[unusualonion]

Hey, that's awesome! Congratulations for making that decision! This career has become largely non-viable for the overwhelming majority of people (I know there are people reading this thinking that it won't be them and they will find a great job but if they were really special they probably wouldn't be in podiatry school to begin with).

I think it's very brave and insightful of you to make that decision before you wasted any more time and money. I hope more pre-pods and pod students read what you wrote and see that it is possible to find a satisfying and rewarding career in healthcare as a PA, NP or CRNA. Personally, I don't think DO school should be out of reach for anybody and I would strongly recommend any pre-pod to retake the MCAT or do a post-bacc.

totally agree. I did the post bacc thing and did well (3.9) and retook the MCAT (even did kaplan plus live 1:1 mentoring through different company) but that didn't pan out score wise. I didn't want to put myself through that wringer of rejection again. Thus, PA or NP depending on how PA admissions shakes out.

Quick indeed search yielded like 20 jobs (cross listed from podiatrycareers . com and APMA) nationally and then a few local mustache pod jobs. In my area was 300+ NP/PA jobs, of which like 95% listed either degree as acceptable. Many of which were fine with new grads.

Nothing against podiatry but no matter how i shake this out, these other mid-levels seem like a superior career move

 

[air bud]

Repost from a different, and at the time, inappropriate thread but I wanted to repost to open it up to any other pod students who feel this way, or are thinking of pulling the trigger on leaving:

Made my decision to jump ship, get my old (65k/yr) research job back, and apply PA while organizing an accelerated BSN then NP route as a back up. Made a 50k oopsie on pod school and I geininuenly feel duped and lied-to by by post-bacc advisor and the administration. I know i bear the responsibility of matriculating and staying. The "doc" title aint worth the headache and I dont have the business skills or drive to go solo practice. Nor do i have the mental fortitude to be 1 of 100 applicants for 20 decent jobs nationally. Job boards (podiatrycareers dot com, and APMA website) literally prove this, also BLS stats are like a growth of 2%... snails move faster. I want to help patients and I found, for me, that I like the ED and ICU best. No amount of "professional foot and ankle trauma reconstructionist with added CAQ in foot surgery and pus bus operator" will get me on a cardiothoracic surgery team or working in the ED.

I did the math for my situation and even factoring in the debt from leaving pod school after one year, by the same time a student in my year is out of residency, I'll hopefully be an NP/PA making middle 100k (or more depending on specialty) with less debt. All of the NP/PA jobs are w-2, nice bennies, and either shift work or stable schedule, depending on specialty. Clock in, see patients, clock out. No wondering if I've made my bills for the month or other pods sniping my privileges to keep their surgical volume. Yes i know that ill not make as much as the most successful podiatrist but ill earn similar to the broad 50% of them will with, as i perceive it, much less financial stress

Ive attached a spreadsheet that helped me get it all out on paper. I carried over some debt from undergrad which sucked but leaving now will allow me to be debt free sooner in one of two actually growing provider levels. I made a lot of assumptions about timing and salaries but used reported averages to best model it. I am also able to contribute so much of my projected salaries because I have a kick-butt significant other who endlessly supports me and is willing to take on more of the cost of living to get us out of debt sooner.

Yours in many layers,
unusualonion

Good choice. Having a significant other plays a huge role in this. Depending on their restrictions for work, it could match up with you being in a city where there's terrible Private Practice jobs and then it will be an absolutely terrible return on your investment. People like myself that went rural and I have had high paying jobs from day one the opposite is true there's really no job opportunities that are worth it for the spouse and that causes problems in the relationship. I'm talking in terms of having a spouse that's a lawyer and engineer or something like that. Best case scenario is something generic like nursing that pays well and there's always opportunities no matter the size of the city. Or obviously any type of work from home situation.

At this stage of the game it truly is a numbers game and it's just a terrible return on your investment I can't believe people would spend $350 to $400,000 to become a podiatrist in this day and age that's just crazy and beyond dumb. The loss of income producing years, coupled with the loss of years of compounding interest coupled with the chance of lower than expected income is just a dangerous combination. Do something else with your life Podiatry isn't that great.

 

[Pronation]

Do something else with your life Podiatry isn't that great.

I find this post extremely disconcerting. Have you no disregard for our aging population that is becoming more obese who can no longer reach their toenails to trim them? If podiatry goes away then who will trim their toenails??!!!?? WHO!??

WARNING: Any posts on this social medial platform that attempt to mock me WILL be publicly denounced.

 

[Weirdy]

Appreciate you guys keeping discussion supportive and on topic.
Please continue to do so.

 

[air bud]

Appreciate you guys keeping discussion supportive and on topic.
Please continue to do so.

We have nothing but support to offer for people who want to leave this god forsaken field. Just here to help!

 

[unusualonion]

I'm talking in terms of having a spouse that's a lawyer and engineer or something like that.

My wonderful and endlessly supportive fiancee is a manufacturing mechanical engineer so she has somewhat limited job prospects to larger or mid size cities. Small rural cities dont have lots of manufacturing. But she's gotten used to subsidizing my poor educational decisions.

Plus we've both agreed that we're "big" city people (Chicago, NYC area, Boston, etc) and I'm not riding the pus bus for a mustache pod while attempting to get cases for ABFAS

 

[air bud]

My wonderful and endlessly supportive fiancee is a manufacturing mechanical engineer so she has somewhat limited job prospects to larger or mid size cities. Small rural cities dont have lots of manufacturing. But she's gotten used to subsidizing my poor educational decisions.

Plus we've both agreed that we're "big" city people (Chicago, NYC area, Boston, etc) and I'm not riding the pus bus for a mustache pod while attempting to get cases for ABFAS

Ah my friend you know the way...good luck in your non pod career. Consider yourself lucky and let's hope you give others the courage to follow I. Your footsteps.

 

[MoostashPod]

Probably your best decision in your life. I don't foresee you regretting it in any way. Ten years from now, you'll look back and smile. I would and should have done that after my first semester of school, but I followed through and through and graduated, got into a residency, and now still paying back student loans after all these long years. I plan on quitting podiatry once I pay off my loans and save up a small cushion. Doing something else afterwards. You have a head start.

 

[JustAPedicurist]

Congrats. Everyday I wish I would’ve been as smart as you to admit my mistake.

 

[coyshotspur]

Thats the great thing if I end up going the NP route, I can work in an OR and see if CRNA interests me or not. No investment into the education to find out.


Thanks. It wasn't purely cost/benefit analysis. It was an intense discussion with my significant other, family, and my therapist. It wasn't a rash decision or one I made on a whim.

Good Luck! thanks for sharing

I was accepted to pod school for 2027, i
enjoy podiatry and would be very happy as a podiatrist but the ROI & job market is rough

I applied for a master’s in anesthesia (AA) at a few schools, got 1 interview last year but got rejected afterward, thinking about reapplying


I considered going back for an accelerated RN, working for a few years in critical care/ICU and then applying for CRNA or even NP, but i’ll see how it all plays out. My s/o is an RN, she tells me to avoid nursing lol

 

[prepod2016]

You are low key everyone’s hero

 

[unusualonion]

Good Luck! thanks for sharing

I was accepted to pod school for 2027, i
enjoy podiatry and would be very happy as a podiatrist but the ROI & job market is rough

I applied for a master’s in anesthesia (AA) at a few schools, got 1 interview last year but got rejected afterward, thinking about reapplying


I considered going back for an accelerated RN, working for a few years in critical care/ICU and then applying for CRNA or even NP, but i’ll see how it all plays out. My s/o is an RN, she tells me to avoid nursing lol

Yeah nursing can suck when youre wiping butt on a medsurg floor. I was a Clinical tech (glorified nursing assistant with EKG and arterial line withdrawal privileges) and the nurses agreed it sucked but a full 5-10% actually wanted to become an NP. Most of them didnt get into nursing for the autonomy so theres a exploding job market for midlevels who can do 85%of doc stuff for 1/4-1/2 the pay.

AA is literally the podiatry of midlevels. Its limited to 16 states and DC. like 4-5 of those states define the scope of AA as "delegatory authority" which is like "docs say youre good to practice" but its not state law for your practice. Its fledgling midlevel that is high risk. I'd avoid it since theres not too many jobs right now. CRNA is a proven commodity.

To be very blunt: the job market isnt "rough", its nonexistant if you dont have a connection or build a strong network. Youll ride the pus bus or be a non surgical errand boy for some guy who got his DPM in the 80s. Best case you get a cushy university or hospital job, but theres 20 of those across the country a year, maybe.

Also a rough job market is not a lot of employers taking a chance on new grad NP/PAs. Thats rough to find your first job in the specialty you want.

They pod schools will throw "scholarships" at you for you to stay. Dont let it "play out". Its much easier to explain to an MSN adcom about a bunch of "W"s on your trascript than your s/o about how youre gonna dig yourself out of 250-350k in debt.

PM if you want a more thorough breakdown of my reasoning and timelines

 

[podiatryresident]

Congratulations! PA or accelerated BSN is better in this market.

 

[DPMGuy]

Congratulations on leaving an awful profession. I’ve wanted to quit since first year of podiatry school but gave in to family and social pressures to keep stubbornly pushing through. It’s the biggest regret of my life.

 

[Pronation]

Congratulations on leaving an awful profession. I’ve wanted to quit since first year of podiatry school but gave in to family and social pressures to keep stubbornly pushing through. It’s the biggest regret of my life.

I had all these same feelings while I was getting screwed in private practice. Thankfully my application was chosen out of some 100+ applicants and now that I have a real job I just feel jaded by the stolen years and money. If I could go back in time, I would have never chosen this profession from a risk/ROI standpoint, even though I make more than the average PCP now, I feel that I got incredibly lucky to claw my way out of the mustache trenches where I made less than some RNs…

*shakes nail crumbs off of hair and walks off into the distance*

 

[air bud]

I had all these same feelings while I was getting screwed in private practice. Thankfully my application was chosen out of some 100+ applicants and now that I have a real job I just feel jaded by the stolen years and money. If I could go back in time, I would have never chosen this profession from a risk/ROI standpoint, even though I make more than the average PCP now, I feel that I got incredibly lucky to claw my way out of the mustache trenches where I made less than some RNs…

*shakes nail crumbs off of hair and walks off into the distance*

For a lot of us on here it was 2008 and the GFC. It was a crazy time. Granted I was a few years out and had zero money or jobs, but times were scary. Medicine seemed safe. Obviously jonwill and krabmas and others were not keeping it real ( I think they were attendings then? Now people who went to pod school during this last bull run when there were food jobs everywhere....

 

[Adam Smasher]

For a lot of us on here it was 2008 and the GFC

I think that may have been the high point for overall podiatry morale. That was when residencies got their 3-year overhaul and everyone going into P-school thought they were going to do something different. We shadowed old guys who had been in it since the 80s, and they told us the opportunities were even better because our training was going to be even better. They might very well have believed it.

5 years later, there's a residency crisis, residency training gets watered down, graduating residents wonder why they put in all that time if they're going to just be grinding toenails like the pods from a previous generation, tuitions go up, wages stay flat.

 

[Adam Smasher]

@unusualonion stop back in after a few years, we'd all be interested in hearing how your story unfolds.

 

[Redsting]

I've had a couple people message me about dropping out and they did. You aren't a lone. You made the right decision.
If I was in any of my friends situations I would be hating life. I am a lucky one. But that is, what? 1 out of 25+ situations? Not worth the risk.

 

[Feli]

I've had a couple people message me about dropping out and they did. You aren't a lone. You made the right decision.
If I was in any of my friends situations I would be hating life. I am a lucky one. But that is, what? 1 out of 25+ situations? Not worth the risk.

Yes, I get PMs about considering leaving pod school also... my general advice is to hang on until 3rd year if they're close to see if they like it (lightbulb seems to go off for some ppl at that point, esp if they didn't shadow much/any).

The ROI and the many more locations for decent jobs for RN or MD or PA or many other fields is just night and day with average DPM, though.

 

[heybrother]

I wrote a post awhile back about how getting into podiatry school is like falling in love. Intense chemical feelings of bonding and acceptance and being "wanted back". Months after I wrote it - someone disliked it - which was very humorous to me. Anyway, people fall out of love. Supposedly young whipper snappers these days are much more willing to quit and walk away from things. The reassurances of the board of the directors of the APMA just isn't enough for them anymore.

 

[MalleableMan]

I thought hard about quitting while I was in school because I had doubts I would be happy with my career. I’m glad I stuck it out as now I have the dream job I envisioned when I joined podiatry school in my desired location. Maybe I’m one of the lucky few, but my coresidents are happy too. Being a mid level doesn’t come close, in my opinion. Good luck.

 

[Reverdin green]

Thank you for withdrawing. The truth is a lot of guys are happy mainly because there is less competition for jobs. The more people drop out, the better the job market

 

[Pronation]

Thank you for withdrawing. The truth is a lot of guys are happy mainly because there is less competition for jobs. The more people drop out, the better the job market

We already all know that you’re a podiatry cheerleader on here but it seems to me that you are accidentally implying that the podiatry job market is indeed hot garbage, right?

 

[Adam Smasher]

A P2 PM'ed me not long ago about dropping out. I told him my concern with this plan is that once you drop out of podiatry school, it could really count against you unless your grades are rock solid. You don't simply put your name on an application and get into a PA/NP program. I would worry a lot of grad programs will look at your application and say "see this guy wasn't even smart enough to make it through podiatry school."

 

[wakaflocka88]

We already all know that you’re a podiatry cheerleader on here but it seems to me that you are accidentally implying that the podiatry job market is indeed hot garbage, right?

One dropping out means one less applicant for the coveted total toe nail fellowship, odds increases by 0.25%

 

[Drjc1977]

Congrats on leaving school. The only reason I made through podiatry school was my general interest (preventing amputations) in medical school aligned with podiatry school in a way I didnt even need to change my essay. But the last 8/9 years as an attending has been rough. Not being able to say I want to live here and then finding jobs in the area makes podiatry completely unworth it. It puts a strain on relationships. I say that even though most of my podiatry related student loans are gone. Really congrats on not putting yourself in the situation. Get the PA or the NP you will be way more flexible in the future.

First, I am coming from a place of complete ignorance. As I read not just comments on this and the related posts, but is the podiatry profession not a healthy profession? Is the profession in danger of dying? An ongoing theme as I read this is if you cannot get into MD/DO school they usually take you in DPM school. Is that really true?? What is the state of affairs here?

 

[Adam Smasher]

Is the profession in danger of dying?

Podiatry as it has traditionally been understood and as it still exists outside of the U.S. will never truly go away. There will always be a need for someone to manage foot mycosis, heel pain, give guidance on shoes and shoe inserts, and yes trim toenails. The biggest problem in my opinion is that podiatry training in the U.S. has undergone such a rapid metamorphosis in terms of length of training and cost of education the DPM degree has priced itself out of the market.

Search the forum for my lobster jokes for a better understanding, but it will take a lot for lobsters to go extinct, same with us.

An ongoing theme as I read this is if you cannot get into MD/DO school they usually take you in DPM school. Is that really true?? What is the state of affairs here?

It's an open secret, podiatry admissions are extremely porous. Schools are challenged that the brightest pre-health students have too many good options open to them and the poditary return on investment doesn't stand up. Since they are tuition-driven, they have to admit people who are not necessarily prepared for the curriculum or licensing exam

 

[iridocyclitiss]

We already all know that you’re a podiatry cheerleader on here but it seems to me that you are accidentally implying that the podiatry job market is indeed hot garbage, right?

 

[Reverdin green]

We already all know that you’re a podiatry cheerleader on here but it seems to me that you are accidentally implying that the podiatry job market is indeed hot garbage, right?

The truth ****ing hurts. People dropping out is for the benefit of those of us who are already residents. So OP, don’t think people here love you, they love you for being a fool.

 

[Adam Smasher]

People dropping out is for the benefit of those of us who are already residents.

Whether any one podiatry student stays in or opts out is not going to meaningfully change the job market nor will it change any of our individual work arrangements. However if a podiatry student does some introspection and finds he's not in too deep and that his talents will be put to best use in another field, I think all of us should support this person's move. After all this is called the STUDENT doctor network, we all want students to capitalize on the best opportunities each has available to them.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Podiatry as it has traditionally been understood and as it still exists outside of the U.S. will never truly go away. There will always be a need for someone to manage foot mycosis, heel pain, give guidance on shoes and shoe inserts, and yes trim toenails. The biggest problem in my opinion is that podiatry training in the U.S. has undergone such a rapid metamorphosis in terms of length of training and cost of education the DPM degree has priced itself out of the market.

Search the forum for my lobster jokes for a better understanding, but it will take a lot for lobsters to go extinct, same with us.


It's an open secret, podiatry admissions are extremely porous. Schools are challenged that the brightest pre-health students have too many good options open to them and the poditary return on investment doesn't stand up. Since they are tuition-driven, they have to admit people who are not necessarily prepared for the curriculum or licensing exam

Adjustments in reimbursement policies and fee schedules can potentially impact overall compensation for podiatrists. Considering the time frame you mentioned (education+training), if changes are made to insurance reimbursement and compensation, it could make podiatry a more appealing career choice.

While it's important not to prioritize money as the sole motivating factor, it's understandable that individuals have financial responsibilities, such as supporting their families and repaying loans. The impending baby boomer crisis may lead to greater equity in podiatry compensation. Effective leadership is crucial for advancing podiatry.


Alternatively: reduce the cost of podiatry education.

 

[Pronation]

The impending baby boomer crisis may lead to greater equity in podiatry compensation.

Are you using chatGPT to spam the forum or what? You're a first year student with unrealistic ambitions. The above nonsense are the same lies that were spewed to us before we became attendings and realized that we got bamboozled.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Nice post, OP. Good luck to you!

Closing!