Melee WW Game Thread-April 2024

[samac]

nothing happened to me last night

Wat.

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[samac]

as in nobody acted on me that I can tell. But my actions did something to me

What did you do to you

 

[samac]

Anyone could be pretty compatible with Cyndia I think. I'm not especially at a "trying to match people in a pack" point atm though

Ones plural? You said you were in two fights. If you won the first one then wouldn't it only be one to follow, not ones?

I was in 3. I lost 2.

 

[samac]

Wouldn't it be funny if we're all villagers and just beating each other to death while hunting for wolves that don't exist

Glad I don’t have the tinfoil anymore.

 

[samac]

Just re-read all of Hannibal. Looking more in depth he was a bit different, but similar joking tone with minimal true contributions and basic reads. So I disagree that he was "so" different, at least from what I saw. Also remember that there were similar arguments from people he'd played with about how he's tough to read d/t low-posting and limited reads to the point that they were almost to talk village out of an obvious win. Also Zenge trolling the last day knowing he'd jailed the SK to cause a no NK and not revealing it on thread to let us wallow in paranoia of "this is too obvious", but that's irrelevant to this game.

As an aside, the roster between games is very similar (me, you, genny, Zenge, Santy, PSV, Clem), so drawing some interesting parallels. Santy feels fairly similar. Zenge feels slightly different, I was sussing him much of Hannibal and have felt better about him here so going to check on what that means to me. genny feels genny and was similar, but I see more goofing off here with 1-2 questions regarding mechanics and no actual game solving. PSV seems okay for now comparing the two games. You're less critical and decisive with thoughts along with all the other stuff I've noted.



I'm not hung up on your "huh" statement. It's just one point out of several that I've made which was asked about and I clarified. I've given other reasons that you feel off or where I don't understand your actions as being village>>wolf. I'm going to reread the whole thread since it's fairly short, but I don't have stronger wolf reads that I'm convinced of at this point.

Why does being suspicious of your surprise make you think I would know that everyone has the same roles? I just think it's weird to believe strongly enough that Ms P was wolfy to be surprised of a village flip when we had almost nothing to go on. That is why I'm surprised by your surprise. What made you even mildly sure Ms P would flip wolf?

Also, when you say same "roles" what are you specifically referring to? Role name? Abilify? Affiliation? I assume the first, but would like clarification. I also have no idea if everyone has the same roles and don't know how I could possibly know that unless I was a mod/NPC.

I was surprised she flipped fighter when I am the same.
The surprise was in that. Not in village vs wolf. I don’t think I’ve played a game where everyone is the same role.

 

[samac]

unyeet stagg
Yeet alley

 

[samac]

DND again
Fast as **** boiiiiiiiii

Spoiler

Oh yeah
Monk is another melee!

 

[Stagg737]

Apologize for another essay, but here we are @Santygrass

For the Alley/Cyndia interactions, here's their reads lists:

Cyndia:
Seems okay: genny, samac, mkg
neutral: Dy, Zenge, PSV
Eh? Santy, MsP, Clem
N/a: Stagg, Alley

Alley from village to wolfy:
PSV
Samac
genny
MKG
zenge
dy
clem
santy
cyndia
Pending further posts: Stagg, MsP

So side by side Cyndia's analysis was correct. They've both got Samac, genny, and mkg as villagey; Clem and Santy as most sketch/questionable; and Dy and Zenge in the middle. Both had me and MsP as question marks. Only point of contention is PSV. I will say, there have been times when I had someone's read align well with mine and believed they were wolfy/sketch, but for me it's because I sometimes ask myself how wolf Stagg would rank/target villagers and then ask myself if I actually think they're manufacturing a list or if they're just seeing the same things I am. Problem I have here is that both lists seem to be mostly just reflections of thread consensus (maybe minus Zenge being neutral instead of more village lean) and nothing really jumps out as original thoughts and one person (Alley) voted the other (Cyn) over Clem and MsP at the time when the reasoning for all 3 of them was the same.

Interaction is briefer than I recalled and I have other interesting observations from pg 14, but interaction can be summed up in Zenge's quoting of their quotes. I think Alley's reasoning for voting Cyndia over Clem is very weak. Yes, Clem was more present later, but he stated himself that up to that point he only had 1-2 game relevant posts but Alley defended her vote on Cyndia over Clem, not sure I like that. Cyndia did come on later and call Alley out, and I disagree with Zenge that she just kind of "backed off" as Cyn's most recent post was from 2 minutes before close and was calling Alley out for taking an easy out. I give Cyndia some village points for this interaction because her reasoning and calling out of alley seems to come from a more village place of game solving than Alley's arguments which seem to be defense of a weak vote. Only gets some village points because multiple other people had called Alley out between Alley's reads list and Cyndia commenting.

On reflection, this seems weird for Alley to vote Cyndia, get called out by a bunch of people, then get called out by Cyndia and then Cyndia vote for Alley. Wolf theater seems plausible but highly unlikely given how close to vote close this all was. V/V seems more plausible to me now, but I've got concerns both ways. Wolf Cyndia could have tried to use momentum of everyone calling out Alley to try and shift the vote there and saved MsP for an easy vote for D2. Especially if a packmate helped advise/coach them to do so, which could have happened since her argument was pretty concise and quick for someone who logged off 3 hours before close, had to catch up on several pages, then started posting again 25 minutes before close. Seems less likely than Alley being a wolf and getting caught making weak arguments while trying to play catch up. The "research" seems to refute Samac but doesn't add much imo. It's the "look at the work I did" argument that doesn't add anything, which is a classic wolf strategy to do work that doesn't really push game state anywhere (shout out to @JaggedJimmyJay !)

Summary: Maybe be V/V, but I have concerns about both making feel there's a fair chance that there is a wolf here. I pick Alley over Cyndia as the more likely wolf both based on their actions and based on how they would fit into potential packs and where I have other players in PoE.

 

[Cyndia]

Hi I'm finally home, catching up now.

 

[Stagg737]

I was surprised she flipped fighter when I am the same.
The surprise was in that. Not in village vs wolf. I don’t think I’ve played a game where everyone is the same role.

Then why did you not just say that earlier? Imo that would have been a valid explanation, but you apparently tried to play a gotcha game with me looking for village code. You should know by now that mods don't slip on that here. Also, why were you on my back about it but not Santy's? Santy was arguing from the same point I was (perceiving you being surprised d/t affiliation, not role), any thoughts on that?

I also have more interesting thoughts on both Samac and Zenge from pg 14 but have to go rumble IRL. I'll be back after I go fight some punks.

 

[samac]

Then why did you not just say that earlier? Imo that would have been a valid explanation, but you apparently tried to play a gotcha game with me looking for village code. You should know by now that mods don't slip on that here. Also, why were you on my back about it but not Santy's? Santy was arguing from the same point I was (perceiving you being surprised d/t affiliation, not role), any thoughts on that?

I also have more interesting thoughts on both Samac and Zenge from pg 14 but have to go rumble IRL. I'll be back after I go fight some punks.

That’s not village code.
I wanted to see how you’d continue to react.
If everyone is a fighter that’s fine, but wolves may have already knew that and not been as surprised as those of us who didn’t know someone else had the same role.

 

[Cyndia]

Alright who knocked me out and what did you get for it

I'm sorry, that was me... Someone challenged me first that I beat, then I went to you and you were fatigued so I beat you easily, then I went back and got beaten by someone else. Busy night lol. I'm assuming one of these is Santy..

And apologies for knocking you out! You mentioned leaving bread crumbs and had asked people to fight you three times in the first couple pages, so I was hoping it meant there was some sort of role activation with that, but turns out not. I had such an internal crisis worrying I was going to accidentally vig you or something and you weren't on my wolf list so I almost uncontingency'd it, but figured it was safe to try after the MsP flip.

Yeet Cyndia

Would love to know your reasoning. I'm assuming you tried to fight me last night?

The fact that you didn’t understand the huh makes me concerned about you.

I'm following this and also felt less good about Stagg.

D1 I was fighting samac and now Im advocating for them how the tables have turned wowee

This makes me feel better about Santy.

I think this was one of the most interesting exchanges at close.

I feel like Cyndia is making some decent points about the double standard she’s experiencing but the they both just kind of…let’s it go.

Like at first glance I had similar to thoughts to what Alley’s saying about Cyndia’s reads list but the more I mulled on it, the more I came to think it was fine. I didn’t necessarily agree with all of it, but there wasn’t anything really absurd in there. Especially for as early in the game it is.

I guess I’d ideally like to see more from Cyndia today, and alternate reasons from Alley for a Cyndia push, because I don’t currently find the argument about her reads list being lackluster very compelling.

You said I let it go but I did move my vote there after that. Assumed it wasn't going to get traction because of MsP at the time but that was where I was intending to go.

 

[dyachei]

man some of these posts feel like word salad. you're saying words but I'm just not following

 

[kaydubs]

Day 2 Vote Tally:

Cyndia (1) - Santy
Stagg ()
samac (1) - Stagg
alley (1) - samac

3/10
Missing: status quo

Vote closes at 10pm 4/16/24 (~26.5 hours).

 

[dyachei]

vote: alley

 

[Santygrass]

I was going to vote alley and now I dont wanna smh

 

[Santygrass]

Would love to know your reasoning. I'm assuming you tried to fight me last night?

You assume wrong!

The vote was mostly because still felt like you were unresolved / were at the same place in my headspace that when I voted you D1 . After reading quotes and stagg post about you/alley I feel better about you and worse about alley tbh

 

[Santygrass]

Unyeet Cyndia

 

[dyachei]

I was going to vote alley and now I dont wanna smh

you snooze you lose

 

[Santygrass]

FROZEN and crying in townchat

 

[Santygrass]

Yeet dyachei

 

[Santygrass]

Yeet dyachei

This is not a "omg dyachei so sus kill em with fire"
But more of a "Im reconsidering the read that I have of this slot and think other people looking into it and giving thought would be appreciated"

 

[Santygrass]

I think they were fine at EoD , but the vibe I have mostly is that they seem to parse through thread in a very... Controlated manner, to put some words into it.

Not wolfy by itself, but something that gives me pause.

 

[dyachei]

i think alley wanted time yesterday so I was giving her time but I don't really think much has improved

 

[dyachei]

I think they were fine at EoD , but the vibe I have mostly is that they seem to parse through thread in a very... Controlated manner, to put some words into it.

Not wolfy by itself, but something that gives me pause.

i was hoping for more activity today but it didnt really happen other than stagg....who's posts are very dense

 

[genny]

i was hoping for more activity today but it didnt really happen other than stagg....who's posts are very dense

i have a hard time with the text walls.

 

[Santygrass]

i was hoping for more activity today but it didnt really happen other than stagg....who's posts are very dense

Yeah, I feel like other than Stagg I didnt see any WIM go up so today was mostly samac+Stagg .

PSV dip in thread I just reread and was really superficial as well so dropping the townlean I had there

 

[genny]

It’s nice to be alive tbh

were you told that you almost died? because now i'm wondering if what happened to me was different than your standard fight.

 

[dyachei]

how do you read psv?

 

[Cyndia]

were you told that you almost died? because now i'm wondering if what happened to me was different than your standard fight.

Fyi all of my flairs involved knocking out or getting knocked out, but nothing about almost dying. I agree yours sounds like more.

 

[dyachei]

i thought eod was today in like 30 mins but its probably tomorrow isnt it

 

[samac]

were you told that you almost died? because now i'm wondering if what happened to me was different than your standard fight.

No it was a comment towards santy always killing me when he’s scum.

 

[samac]

i thought eod was today in like 30 mins but its probably tomorrow isnt it

Yeah it’s tomorrow. I’m busy getting ruidium corrupted in dnd tonight

 

[Stagg737]

That’s not village code.
I wanted to see how you’d continue to react.
If everyone is a fighter that’s fine, but wolves may have already knew that and not been as surprised as those of us who didn’t know someone else had the same role.

It's village-code adjacent, how would wolves know everyone else's role anyway? I've never played a game where wolves were privy to role mechanics but no one else was...

man some of these posts feel like word salad. you're saying words but I'm just not following

I assume you're referring to my posts. Sorry, my inner Cray escaped. Anything I can clarify? Same to @genny (or anyone really)

You assume wrong!

The vote was mostly because still felt like you were unresolved / were at the same place in my headspace that when I voted you D1 . After reading quotes and stagg post about you/alley I feel better about you and worse about alley tbh

What did you find so convincing?

 

[samac]

It's village-code adjacent, how would wolves know everyone else's role anyway? I've never played a game where wolves were privy to role mechanics but no one else was...


I assume you're referring to my posts. Sorry, my inner Cray escaped. Anything I can clarify? Same to @genny (or anyone really)


What did you find so convincing?

That’s why it’s not village code.
Goodness.
It’s just wolves being in a role pm together and their roles being like
“You are a fighter
You are also a fighter”
So when a villager flipped fighter they weren’t surprised because they knew that
But I was surprised

 

[Stagg737]

Here's my post above but cut down significantly to help simplify. @genny and @dyachei , let me know if this is better.

Cyndia's analysis of her and Alley's lists was correct. However, both lists seem to be mostly just reflections of thread consensus and nothing really jumps out as original thoughts.

Interaction is briefer than I recalled and can be summed up in Zenge's quoting of their quotes. I think Alley's reasoning for voting Cyndia over Clem is very weak and Clem even called her out. I give Cyndia some village points for this interaction because her reasoning and calling out of alley seems to come from a more village place of game solving than Alley's arguments which seem to be defense of a weak vote. However, I still have concerns about Cyndia.

Summary: Maybe be V/V, but I feel there's a fair chance that there is a wolf here. I pick Alley over Cyndia as the more likely wolf both based on their actions and based on how they would fit into potential packs and where I have other players in PoE.

 

[Stagg737]

That’s why it’s not village code.
Goodness.
It’s just wolves being in a role pm together and their roles being like
“You are a fighter
You are also a fighter”
So when a villager flipped fighter they weren’t surprised because they knew that
But I was surprised

Even if wolves all had the same role, why would they assume that all the villagers have the same role? Could be a possibility, but not something I'd just assume as a wolf.

 

[kaydubs]

Day 2 Vote Tally:

Cyndia ()
Stagg ()
samac (1) - Stagg
alley (2) - samac, dya
dya (1) - Santy

4/10

Vote closes at 10pm 4/16/24 (~23.75 hours).

 

[Santygrass]

What did you find so convincing?

The reasoning/questioning cyndia make to alley when comparing the two lists seems p towny in hindsight

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I was in 3. I lost 2.

I thought earlier you said you were in two.

I think they were fine at EoD , but the vibe I have mostly is that they seem to parse through thread in a very... Controlated manner, to put some words into it.

Not wolfy by itself, but something that gives me pause.

Personally I still have them in neutrals because that's the vibe I always get from dy. I think I have only played one wolf and one village game with them and found them tonally the same so my read there is just kinda shrug.

No it was a comment towards santy always killing me when he’s scum.

Seems a bit odd? 1) You... kind of always die no matter who is scum. Your most likely to die N1 stuff didn't surface from thin air. 2) Feels like a strange comment within the context of the interaction if this is the angle you meant

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I pulled up the post and the wording was that two people tried to fight samac. So assuming she challenged someone and then two people wham-bam-boomed her, that would be three fights. Got a little lost in the sauce there.

 

[Santygrass]

I have the feeling that me bragging about how you all have to get better at fighting will end up with me just being beaten up next night and ded.

Worth it tbh

 

[Santygrass]

@potentialsheltervet who are your scumreads atm?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

@potentialsheltervet who are your scumreads atm?

Honestly it's just very fluid at the moment. I don't feel great about Cyndia still. Samac is not a town read. Everyone else just kinda floats in the goo.

 

[Zenge142]

Yeet dyachei

So I’ve felt kind of meh on Dy this whole game. Like nothing screams town or howls wolf.

Talk me through your thoughts.

 

[Zenge142]

Honestly it's just very fluid at the moment. I don't feel great about Cyndia still. Samac is not a town read. Everyone else just kinda floats in the goo.

Can you clarify the difference between “floating in goo” per everyone else and “not a town read” per Samac?

 

[alleycat03]

Just re-read all of Hannibal. Looking more in depth he was a bit different, but similar joking tone with minimal true contributions and basic reads. So I disagree that he was "so" different, at least from what I saw. Also remember that there were similar arguments from people he'd played with about how he's tough to read d/t low-posting and limited reads to the point that they were almost to talk village out of an obvious win. Also Zenge trolling the last day knowing he'd jailed the SK to cause a no NK and not revealing it on thread to let us wallow in paranoia of "this is too obvious", but that's irrelevant to this game.

As an aside, the roster between games is very similar (me, you, genny, Zenge, Santy, PSV, Clem), so drawing some interesting parallels. Santy feels fairly similar. Zenge feels slightly different, I was sussing him much of Hannibal and have felt better about him here so going to check on what that means to me. genny feels genny and was similar, but I see more goofing off here with 1-2 questions regarding mechanics and no actual game solving. PSV seems okay for now comparing the two games. You're less critical and decisive with thoughts along with all the other stuff I've noted.



I'm not hung up on your "huh" statement. It's just one point out of several that I've made which was asked about and I clarified. I've given other reasons that you feel off or where I don't understand your actions as being village>>wolf. I'm going to reread the whole thread since it's fairly short, but I don't have stronger wolf reads that I'm convinced of at this point.

Why does being suspicious of your surprise make you think I would know that everyone has the same roles? I just think it's weird to believe strongly enough that Ms P was wolfy to be surprised of a village flip when we had almost nothing to go on. That is why I'm surprised by your surprise. What made you even mildly sure Ms P would flip wolf?

Also, when you say same "roles" what are you specifically referring to? Role name? Abilify? Affiliation? I assume the first, but would like clarification. I also have no idea if everyone has the same roles and don't know how I could possibly know that unless I was a mod/NPC.

Can I get a tldr on your thoughts about Hannibal and the game outcome/who was scum? I appreciate you reading it but I’m kinda getting lost in your post.

 

[alleycat03]

Eeehhhhhh, semi agree. I think considering who is likely compatible and who isn't can help determine who to go after early on. Ie, if I'm between 2-3 people that aren't clearly more sketch than each other, I'll take the flip that gives the most info (assuming it's not hurting village through killing a PR). This is part of why I fought Clem last night. Idk if fighting kills people (seems like it may or may not?) but that's part of why I went after Clem instead of Samac or genny. If he died because of the fight (idk if I killed him or someone else, my PM just said I won not that I killed him) then his flip points me toward Dy or Santy if wolf whereas a Samac or genny flip wouldn't have really helped either way.

That’s understandable and logical. It’s just a pet peeve when people try to figure out “who’s compatible” so early on and use that to sus people. I think evaluating the game as a whole and using interactions is smart if it helps decide who to prioritize out of several equal candidates. But making a “compatible” pack before we catch any wolves doesn’t feel like solid gamesolving to me.

Also I don’t think you killed clem by trying to fight him. If a single fight (or several, in Samac’s case) was deadly, it appears that we would have a lot more people dead today.

 

[alleycat03]

I wouldn’t have. It was a joke because of the series of statements.

The only thing in that post I actually meant was my asking Samac why she thought it was weird.

Okay, so why did you think it wasn’t weird? Several of us were not expecting clem to be the NK so you’re the only contrarian rn

 

[alleycat03]

Cyndia iso:
Didn't post in first 24 hours. Early yesterday was mostly joking/3 musketeers talk and started with actual game discussion late in the afternoon (4pm correct standard time). Initial sketch reads were MsP and Clem for low posting/lacking substance and Santy for "stranger danger". Some mild back and forth with Santy that seems a bunch of null and mild pressure for PSV who seemed mildly sus but didn't really push at all. Clem posted more and Cyndia unvoted them. Then came the Alley/Cyndia stuff which I'll address separately as she hasn't posted since.

Alley now has 3 pages of posts, so will limit iso to pre-Cyndia argument and then look at that:
First post was yesterday 2.5 hours before close. Immediate vote on MKG seemingly for chili-related joke and unvoted without explanation but again seemingly d/t jokes, then shortly after gave village points for steering back to thread. Then seemed to sheep a PSV reason for finding Cyndia sus when MKG asked about it. Will give some grace here as she was still catching up, but caught up at this point. Lots of fluff posts (jokes and questions leading to nowhere/sheeping questions) until posting a general reads list the voting Cyndia for "being extra off-topic and not discussing the game, everyone else who was off-topic has a good deal of game-related content". Got called out by several people and gave mildly adequate but unconvincing responses. As an aside, I feel better about Dya after reading through this. That combined with the Clem flip is enough to at least move them into neutrals.

Day 1 is hard for me, we just don’t have much to go on to form strong opinions and that irks me. As much as endgame is stressful, at least there’s tons of posts to evaluate and something to go off of. When I finished the thread, Cyndia stood out to me as someone who was trying to look helpful and engaged, but when I analyzed closer it was mostly off-topic. I would like to see more gamesolving from her today now that we have two flips and several more pages of posts to analyze.

Yes, my catch-up did have some fluff but I hope you see that I tried to stay on track and ask relevant questions and I stayed engaged for the rest of the cycle. I still think I was quite involved and I’ve continued to post consistently today.

Clearly cyndia’s reads list was actually more similar to my own than I remembered. My biggest gripe was that her list didn’t feel genuine. Kinda like it was thrown together without much gumption or conviction. In hindsight, I probably should’ve given her more grace since it was Day 1 but that was my immediate reaction. I am re-evaluating because I realize the hypocrisy of saying it is hard to form opinions during D1 and then voting her for an unnatural reads list that is similar to my own.