Melee WW Game Thread-April 2024

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Santygrass said:
That's something you can only know after the flip tbh. There was'nt anything in Ms P favor tbh. And like I said, there werent any strong arguments. Clem was the other wagon near EoD to yeet and just him being a nothingburger until that point there wasnt nothing else. So /shrug

Today we get better, trust the process and all that stuff
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Sure, I'll agree that there wasn't much to go off yesterday for either of them. But other people seemed to have decent enough reasons for voting elsewhere but didn't try and push those very hard (those on Alley and Cyndia).

Santygrass said:
Mkg has been fairly villagey as well.

I think Samac+MKG are the slots Im seeing more as villa rn
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Why? Samac was shading Alley but then just sat on Zenge, who imo is near top of village list right now. If the Zenge vote was supposed to be a potential trap, why stay there at the end? She also had a quote suggesting it maybe wasn't a trap (maybe was just trying say that it wasn't really a trap to make a trap work? idk) but today is now voting me which is where Zenge ended. Unless Samac is putting Zenge near top of village reads (last list she posted had him near middle) that doesn't make sense. Also get the feeling a bit she is voting for me because she thinks Alley might lose traction (per your post questioning Samac's response to Alley's research). Samac defended that Alley's research could be wolfy but then votes me today when she had Alley as wolfiest and has never actually acted to push Alley. What Samac is saying and what she's doing don't line up to me. I'll iso her a bit to see if there's more, but idk how people are putting Samac near top of village right now...
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For Samac I agree most of their D1 was mostly NAI to me, but the sitting on Zenge and poking there at EoD is what I see as mostly towny , a bit of the "shaking the thread and look for info" I mostly vibe with V!Samac, and have trouble seeing why do it as wolf idk . Was good to see reactions and develop reads making that move overall to me
 
Also as long samac's voting and questioning someone they sus is fine. They can have you now as most sus or 'more urgent prodding' and is fine.

What you say of 'maybe alley is not a good push and thats why they switched' is like valid? But something that I can make sense as any alignment is not something I will take into account to read into Samac alignment
 
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D1 I was fighting samac and now Im advocating for them how the tables have turned wowee
 
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Stagg737 said:
For transparency, I fought Clem last night and was victorious. Idk if that means I killed him, but seems like there could have been other people attacking as well seeing as at least 2 other people (Samac and genny) are claiming to be attacked by at least 2 people and are still alive. Also intrigued reading between the lines about some claims regarding last night, but will hold off on assumptions for now.

I was between Clem and Dy because I thought those flips would give most info about some of my other PoE, but chose Clem because he felt similar to Hannibal 2 when he was a serial killer. Also because I haven't played with Dy a ton and felt guilty about killing them when they felt like I was tunneling them a bunch last game. Clem flip makes me feel a little better about Santy and Dy (though in retrospect Dy flip probably would have helped my view of Clem more). Also want to look back at vote progression yesterday knowing the 2 leading wagons for most of the day both flipped village.
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After Clem was here he felt so different than Hannibal.
 
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Stagg737 said:
Sure, I'll agree that there wasn't much to go off yesterday for either of them. But other people seemed to have decent enough reasons for voting elsewhere but didn't try and push those very hard (those on Alley and Cyndia).



Why? Samac was shading Alley but then just sat on Zenge, who imo is near top of village list right now. If the Zenge vote was supposed to be a potential trap, why stay there at the end? She also had a quote suggesting it maybe wasn't a trap (maybe was just trying say that it wasn't really a trap to make a trap work? idk) but today is now voting me which is where Zenge ended. Unless Samac is putting Zenge near top of village reads (last list she posted had him near middle) that doesn't make sense. Also get the feeling a bit she is voting for me because she thinks Alley might lose traction (per your post questioning Samac's response to Alley's research). Samac defended that Alley's research could be wolfy but then votes me today when she had Alley as wolfiest and has never actually acted to push Alley. What Samac is saying and what she's doing don't line up to me. I'll iso her a bit to see if there's more, but idk how people are putting Samac near top of village right now...
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I’m not as logical when I’m village, chaos is more fun.

I’m voting you because you got hung up on me saying huh yo MsP’s flip.
I was surprised MsP flipped the same role as me.
I’m not anymore after the night and flip, I imagine we’re all the same roles.
But being skeived out by my surprise makes me wonder if you already knew everyone had the same roles. That’s what I’m voting you.
 
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Santygrass said:
Also as long samac's voting and questioning someone they sus is fine. They can have you now as most sus or 'more urgent prodding' and is fine.

What you say of 'maybe alley is not a good push and thats why they switched' is like valid? But something that I can make sense as any alignment is not something I will take into account to read into Samac alignment
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I still think alley is probably an egg worth cracking and she’s wolfy but I guess she’s arguing to tue contrary, I feel like I have incorrectly pushed her numerous times and I would feel very guilty to do it again
But she’s arguing that I often don’t do that but eh.
The desire to go through all the old games to push a narrative isn’t village points in my opinion though. It’s a favorite wolf tactic of mine.
 
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samac said:
I’m not anymore after the night and flip, I imagine we’re all the same roles.
But being skeived out by my surprise makes me wonder if you already knew everyone had the same roles. That’s what I’m voting you.
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Honestly i guessed we were all the same role based on the title, i don't think it's that much of a stretch. i think you and stagg are v/v anyway, so this whole thing between you is just distracting
 
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genny said:
Honestly i guessed we were all the same role based on the title, i don't think it's that much of a stretch. i think you and stagg are v/v anyway, so this whole thing between you is just distracting
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My dnd playing ass was like
Okay
Rogue
Fighter
Barbarian
Ranger
Some wizards
Some bards

I was ready to full fantasy this out lol
 
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samac said:
I don’t know how to be less village-y. It’s a blessing a curse.
Samac finds someone suspicious, hones in -> village tunneling samac
Samac is a breeze blowing wherever the wind takes her -> unsure village samac
How do I village less hard

i was a wolf in SPN.
But huh.
You do realize telling me I’m better at reading you than I thought makes me feel weird right?
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lol I forgot you were a wolf in SPN because I didn't end up reading too far past D1 when I died.

You can feel weird but I wanted to confirm that what I remembered was accurate. In several of those games it just took you a few days to get a read on me, and as far as I can tell you haven't thought I was this wolfy so early in the game in a long time. So I still have hope you'll come to the correct conclusion here too
 
Zenge142 said:
Is he? I mean I’d kill Clem.

Oh. Maybe it’s a bad time to bring this up. 😬

But serious question, why do you think Clem was a “weird choice”?
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why would you have killed clem? I feel like there was a good amount of sus on him still at EoD yesterday and I agree with Samac that he was a surprising choice imo
 
Stagg737 said:
The whole “I think there’s a wolf in the people just chatting” comes across as a smokescreen to justify an early reads list. Like some kind of variation on whoever’s rule it was that there’s always a wold in the early posters. I’ll have to follow up on it more tomorrow, but felt it was worth noting and still feel that way. You’ve had more substantive posts since then, but need to compare them to that one and see how I feel.

So who else would be in the pack with Cyndia?
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Anyone could be pretty compatible with Cyndia I think. I'm not especially at a "trying to match people in a pack" point atm though
samac said:
I won my first one.
It was the ones that followed.
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Ones plural? You said you were in two fights. If you won the first one then wouldn't it only be one to follow, not ones?
 
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samac said:
no idea tbh
Don’t know whether it’s a wolfy play to make me feel guilty or she’s legitimately bothered by me wolf reading her
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Not intentionally trying to make you feel guilty. I wanted to confirm if my memory was correct
 
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samac said:
I don’t feel strongly about it because I’ve done almost this exact **** as a wolf to dubz in pasta. I was reacting to her posts in old games so she knew I was really in it trying to compare her play there to wolf play. Easy distractor.
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I quickly discovered that neither of us even played in DnD lol but MKG's post was hilarious

Also there aren't a ton of messages for me to react to in old threads because I reacted to 99% of them while playing the game lmao

As for a wolfy tactic, I don't think it's AI at all. I really only go back to do research on previous games when I have time to spare regardless of my aff, and since it's dead week and I don't want to study for finals I had plenty of time to look last night.
 
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Did a skimmy skim of Clem's content.
Clem J said:
I sheep

VOTE SAMAC
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Entered boldly following MsP's samac vote
Clem J said:
UGH

UNYEET WHOEVER I WAS VOTING

YEET PSV
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Moved to me because the vibe felt right
Clem J said:
I like samac's bounciness (she can definitely fake it but idc d1)

Santy has good vibes and that's usually how I read him, with mixed results tbf

Cyndia feels like she's busy/overwhelmed town, it's not a Hugh confidence read but

And genny is genny
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Explaining his townreads, which he seemed to stick with until he died
He had a bit of discussion with alley about what separated his slot from Cyndia's in her mind and talked about telegraphing a switch onto alley, but doesn't seem like he ended up switching.
 
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I find Clem is a bit of a wildcard who can switch reads easily and is unpredictable in that sense. As well, there wasn't a huge consensus on a massive townread except for mkg as of last night, so whacking Clem could create confusion and sow some doubt and mistrust. But I'm just theorizing here.
 
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potentialsheltervet said:
Did a skimmy skim of Clem's content.

Entered boldly following MsP's samac vote

Moved to me because the vibe felt right

Explaining his townreads, which he seemed to stick with until he died
He had a bit of discussion with alley about what separated his slot from Cyndia's in her mind and talked about telegraphing a switch onto alley, but doesn't seem like he ended up switching.
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Clem didny have much threadpull or is the slot to be wary that'll obvtown or something later so I dont think its sure that any of their posts can point to a wolf tbh.

If anything their townreads are more likely to be true (assuming they were indeed killed by mafia ofc)
 
Santygrass said:
Clem didny have much threadpull or is the slot to be wary that'll obvtown or something later so I dont think its sure that any of their posts can point to a wolf tbh.

If anything their townreads are more likely to be true (assuming they were indeed killed by mafia ofc)
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Honestly at this point I'm leaning more toward a "meh" kill from mafia rather than him being conspicuously right on anything as well
 
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potentialsheltervet said:
Anyone could be pretty compatible with Cyndia I think. I'm not especially at a "trying to match people in a pack" point atm though
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I agree, it's too early in the game to be putting together "compatible" packs when we haven't caught a wolf yet. I like to find a wolf and then try and figure out who would be a compatible packmate
potentialsheltervet said:
Ones plural? You said you were in two fights. If you won the first one then wouldn't it only be one to follow, not ones?
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I was wondering the same thing
 
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Off-topic but I am insanely jealous looking at your rotations list. Every time I read the word shelter my heart soars.
 
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Wouldn't it be funny if we're all villagers and just beating each other to death while hunting for wolves that don't exist
 
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alleycat03 said:
giving me bounty hunter WW game vibes...

I don't wanna go there yet
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My personal suspicion is that the wolves are also participating in the melee but can like... go berserk or something. You think you're just having a friendly round of kickpuncher with a pal and then they whip out a knife.
 
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I'm curious what it means to win or lose a fight too. KD could have gotten creative with this theme for sure. But that's me in general loving the mechanics talk no matter what
 
samac said:
After Clem was here he felt so different than Hannibal.
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Just re-read all of Hannibal. Looking more in depth he was a bit different, but similar joking tone with minimal true contributions and basic reads. So I disagree that he was "so" different, at least from what I saw. Also remember that there were similar arguments from people he'd played with about how he's tough to read d/t low-posting and limited reads to the point that they were almost to talk village out of an obvious win. Also Zenge trolling the last day knowing he'd jailed the SK to cause a no NK and not revealing it on thread to let us wallow in paranoia of "this is too obvious", but that's irrelevant to this game.

As an aside, the roster between games is very similar (me, you, genny, Zenge, Santy, PSV, Clem), so drawing some interesting parallels. Santy feels fairly similar. Zenge feels slightly different, I was sussing him much of Hannibal and have felt better about him here so going to check on what that means to me. genny feels genny and was similar, but I see more goofing off here with 1-2 questions regarding mechanics and no actual game solving. PSV seems okay for now comparing the two games. You're less critical and decisive with thoughts along with all the other stuff I've noted.


samac said:
I’m not as logical when I’m village, chaos is more fun.

I’m voting you because you got hung up on me saying huh yo MsP’s flip.
I was surprised MsP flipped the same role as me.
I’m not anymore after the night and flip, I imagine we’re all the same roles.
But being skeived out by my surprise makes me wonder if you already knew everyone had the same roles. That’s what I’m voting you.
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I'm not hung up on your "huh" statement. It's just one point out of several that I've made which was asked about and I clarified. I've given other reasons that you feel off or where I don't understand your actions as being village>>wolf. I'm going to reread the whole thread since it's fairly short, but I don't have stronger wolf reads that I'm convinced of at this point.

Why does being suspicious of your surprise make you think I would know that everyone has the same roles? I just think it's weird to believe strongly enough that Ms P was wolfy to be surprised of a village flip when we had almost nothing to go on. That is why I'm surprised by your surprise. What made you even mildly sure Ms P would flip wolf?

Also, when you say same "roles" what are you specifically referring to? Role name? Abilify? Affiliation? I assume the first, but would like clarification. I also have no idea if everyone has the same roles and don't know how I could possibly know that unless I was a mod/NPC.
 
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Other general thoughts from last night before I re-read in case I didn't post them.

Alley/Cyndia didn't feel V/V to me. Not sure where I lean on that since I follow both of their logic, but want to look into this more today.
Zenge felt solid village to me and was reminding me of Hannibal before the reread. Now a bit less so, but nothing that would make me believe small differences would be AI.
MKG and PSV had V leans, but not sure if that is just me subconsciously agreeing with thread sentiment or if nothing just stood out to me.
 
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If you can I'd appreciate if you talk about your feelings about alley/cyndia and if there is a particular exchange or situation that makes you think they arent v/v
 
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dyachei said:
oh see i figured it was like super smash brothers melee
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We had that game several years ago. Village bloc crushed it, but was also a long game (>120 pages) so not sure if worth a full read.

alleycat03 said:
I agree, it's too early in the game to be putting together "compatible" packs when we haven't caught a wolf yet. I like to find a wolf and then try and figure out who would be a compatible packmate

I was wondering the same thing
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Eeehhhhhh, semi agree. I think considering who is likely compatible and who isn't can help determine who to go after early on. Ie, if I'm between 2-3 people that aren't clearly more sketch than each other, I'll take the flip that gives the most info (assuming it's not hurting village through killing a PR). This is part of why I fought Clem last night. Idk if fighting kills people (seems like it may or may not?) but that's part of why I went after Clem instead of Samac or genny. If he died because of the fight (idk if I killed him or someone else, my PM just said I won not that I killed him) then his flip points me toward Dy or Santy if wolf whereas a Samac or genny flip wouldn't have really helped either way.

potentialsheltervet said:
Wouldn't it be funny if we're all villagers and just beating each other to death while hunting for wolves that don't exist
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If this is the case I'm going to have to have some serious words (or fisticuffs) with the mods for stealing my game idea!

Santygrass said:
If you can I'd appreciate if you talk about your feelings about alley/cyndia and if there is a particular exchange or situation that makes you think they arent v/v
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Will do after some reread. Or maybe I'll iso them before. I plan to do this either way.
 
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Zenge142 said:
I’m going back to look at it. Was there something specific from EOD you wanted my thoughts on, or more generally?
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Generally . I know you were busy at the time so I missed your input uvu
 
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alleycat03 said:
why would you have killed clem? I feel like there was a good amount of sus on him still at EoD yesterday and I agree with Samac that he was a surprising choice imo
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I wouldn’t have. It was a joke because of the series of statements.

The only thing in that post I actually meant was my asking Samac why she thought it was weird.
 
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Santygrass said:
Generally . I know you were busy at the time so I missed your input uvu
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I think this was one of the most interesting exchanges at close.
Cyndia said:
I also don't like alleys logic re: her reads list and me. I think we nearly had identical reads lists aside from PSV (she ranked her village and I had her in my neutrals) and her explanation of me sounding wishy washy doesn't feel like a valid reason to vote for me if all of her other game reasoning supposedly lines up with mine.
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alleycat03 said:
I didn't feel like you were contributing to the game enough to justify a village placement. It felt like a lot of off-topic comments and then a reads list that didn't feel authentic imo
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Cyndia said:
I guess where I'm confused with you logic in picking me is that our lists were so similar but you don't think it was authentic? How are you so much more confident in your reads in D1? I saw that post where you said you haven't played in 2024 and played last a while back in 2023, which is similar to my timeline.
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Cyndia said:
But fair, I understand why you don't have me in your village pile because there's nothing to go off yet, but putting me so low on your list doesn't jive with the similar reads. Feels like an easy out.
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I feel like Cyndia is making some decent points about the double standard she’s experiencing but the they both just kind of…let’s it go.

Like at first glance I had similar to thoughts to what Alley’s saying about Cyndia’s reads list but the more I mulled on it, the more I came to think it was fine. I didn’t necessarily agree with all of it, but there wasn’t anything really absurd in there. Especially for as early in the game it is.

I guess I’d ideally like to see more from Cyndia today, and alternate reasons from Alley for a Cyndia push, because I don’t currently find the argument about her reads list being lackluster very compelling.
 
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Cyndia iso:
Didn't post in first 24 hours. Early yesterday was mostly joking/3 musketeers talk and started with actual game discussion late in the afternoon (4pm correct standard time). Initial sketch reads were MsP and Clem for low posting/lacking substance and Santy for "stranger danger". Some mild back and forth with Santy that seems a bunch of null and mild pressure for PSV who seemed mildly sus but didn't really push at all. Clem posted more and Cyndia unvoted them. Then came the Alley/Cyndia stuff which I'll address separately as she hasn't posted since.

Alley now has 3 pages of posts, so will limit iso to pre-Cyndia argument and then look at that:
First post was yesterday 2.5 hours before close. Immediate vote on MKG seemingly for chili-related joke and unvoted without explanation but again seemingly d/t jokes, then shortly after gave village points for steering back to thread. Then seemed to sheep a PSV reason for finding Cyndia sus when MKG asked about it. Will give some grace here as she was still catching up, but caught up at this point. Lots of fluff posts (jokes and questions leading to nowhere/sheeping questions) until posting a general reads list the voting Cyndia for "being extra off-topic and not discussing the game, everyone else who was off-topic has a good deal of game-related content". Got called out by several people and gave mildly adequate but unconvincing responses. As an aside, I feel better about Dya after reading through this. That combined with the Clem flip is enough to at least move them into neutrals.
 
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