“Break” culture is ridiculous!

[gwarm01]

Level of maturity in this thread kind of amazes me. You guys have gone to doctorate school; make six figures, and yet behave like a 5 year old throwing tantrum when someone has different views on something?

I hope for the sake of your career, this just your internet self and not how you behave in real world..

lol

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[Dred Pirate]

The honor system was abused both ways - the punch was needed to document and keep both sides honest.

I remember when CVS was sued a ton of times in CA - they made it so when you clocked out for lunch, it would physically lock down your computer access to prevent you from working. Not a bad way to immunize yourself from these types of lawsuits.

At both places I work/worked, the time clock was on the computer, so it was an easy thing to do.

well, in the salary world outside of california -there is no need for the honor system being both ways since it doesn't matter if we work on our lunch, etc. But I like they lock down the computer -

 

[confettiflyer]

Many people have disagreed with my sentiment like Owl, Coffentiflyer or Dread pirate for example but they still have behaved like decent, intelligent forum members. Nothing wrong with disagreeing.

Responses from some others posters on the other hand.. I expect better responses from someone who has gone through lobotomy.

lol.. thanks? I used to be snarkier, I think I've mellowed out with age.

But to expand on my original reply, that the "break culture" you described here sounds like a management problem. I'm doubling down on that idea, and I really think that it's an act of self-preservation on the part of the person taking "excessive breaks" or bending the actual or implied rules surrounding breaks.

Esprit de corps is notoriously difficult to foster, build, and maintain within a group. You've really got to have a) a stable group of individuals/low turnover, b) a generous amount of trust among all of the individuals (workers and management), and c) and be able to foster it organically, and not by force or decree. There needs to be spontaneity in some individuals going above and beyond, there needs to be recognition and reward from management when it does happen, but going above and beyond also cannot be abused and relied upon.

I've seen this play out, where a great group of pharmacists/techs are poisoned by 1-2 individuals taking excessive (insert break/time off benefit here) that are 3-5 standard deviations above the rest of the group. Everyone else feels like a sucker/is stuck with a higher workload, and given enough time and behavior unchecked by management, everyone will revert to self-preservation. I've also seen it where a great group is constantly going "above and beyond," but management fails to recognize and address/remedy why all of this extra work is happening.

So however way you got to "break culture" is irrelevant, the underlying issue is that perhaps some or all of your staff have zero confidence in their fellow colleagues and management. Yes, there's crappy people out there constantly trying to game the system, but like with most things in pharmacy and healthcare, the underlying cause is more colorful.

You can try to solve it with brute force -- enforcing break times, monitoring in person/by camera, tracking bathroom breaks (hah), eventually firing the worst offenders perhaps -- but that's an incomplete response.

 

[confettiflyer]

well, in the salary world outside of california -there is no need for the honor system being both ways since it doesn't matter if we work on our lunch, etc. But I like they lock down the computer -

Hourly work in CA has its perks, though. I will gladly interact with a time clock 4x a day if it means making 1.5-2x my hourly rate if I'm held over 8/10 or 12 hours, respectively.

Side note 1 - I really wonder if the OT differential in CA is an underappreciated/unnoticed fact when out-of-state folks look at hourly rates/average annual wages vs. cost of living in deciding where to work. This isn't just for pharmacy, but for nursing, etc...

Side note 2 -- when I left CVS entering pharmacy school, I got maybe a steady stream of 5-6 settlement checks from all of the lunch abuse/break abuse lawsuits that resolved over the course of my 1st year. Definitely paid for a few meals!

 

[Dred Pirate]

Hourly work in CA has its perks, though. I will gladly interact with a time clock 4x a day if it means making 1.5-2x my hourly rate if I'm held over 8/10 or 12 hours, respectively.

Side note 1 - I really wonder if the OT differential in CA is an underappreciated/unnoticed fact when out-of-state folks look at hourly rates/average annual wages vs. cost of living in deciding where to work. This isn't just for pharmacy, but for nursing, etc...

Side note 2 -- when I left CVS entering pharmacy school, I got maybe a steady stream of 5-6 settlement checks from all of the lunch abuse/break abuse lawsuits that resolved over the course of my 1st year. Definitely paid for a few meals!

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all - I guarantee you I would have a lot more $$ in my pocket if we got paid everytime I stayed a late - although most of that was when I was a pseudo manager - which I don't know if I would have been exempt or not in that capacity. I remember getting offered a job in Florida where all the non-mgmt was hourly, I asked how does it work when you stay late to finish up things - does mgmt have an issue paying that overtime? the response was "I have been here 5 years and only made 1 hour of overtime pay - we all leave on time" I appreciated that!.

 

[confettiflyer]

I wasn't disagreeing with you at all - I guarantee you I would have a lot more $$ in my pocket if we got paid everytime I stayed a late - although most of that was when I was a pseudo manager - which I don't know if I would have been exempt or not in that capacity. I remember getting offered a job in Florida where all the non-mgmt was hourly, I asked how does it work when you stay late to finish up things - does mgmt have an issue paying that overtime? the response was "I have been here 5 years and only made 1 hour of overtime pay - we all leave on time" I appreciated that!.

Oh no worries - OT diff does create a HUGE incentive for management to get you out the door on time. With the state having cracked down on off-clock working, the only solution now is to optimize your workflow (or less commonly, reduce the workload). Overtime isn't common enough to rely on, but I think everyone on staff at my hospital can count on at approximately 1 overtime shift opportunity per month -- either through covering a sick call, or accumulating an hour here/hour there when we are in high acuity/high surge scenarios.

That translates to 120 hours a year, estimate, or an extra $14,400 at our starting hourly rate, not a bad take. I will say, half of the staff will avoid OT (usually the older, more financially comfortable pharmacists), the other half (younger, more bills to pay, etc...) will seek it out and volunteer at higher rates for sick call coverage.

I checked my 2021 compensation, I earned $13,637 in OT pay that I attribute to COVID surges/staffing needs (about 90 hours worth, so just under 8 hours per month. Nursing, however, was like an OT gold mine the last year.

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

an extra $14,400 at our starting hourly rate, not a bad take.

But, but the tax doe

 

[confettiflyer]

But, but the tax doe

Yeeeeeeahhh…’tis true.

 

[KidPharmD]

Many people have disagreed with my sentiment like Owl, Coffentiflyer or Dread pirate for example but they still have behaved like decent, intelligent forum members. Nothing wrong with disagreeing.

Responses from some others posters on the other hand.. I expect better responses from someone who has gone through lobotomy.

I don't think that there is any reason to result to direct insults. I do believe that you are still displaying an unawareness of the kind of environment that creates the kind of culture you describe. I have never been somewhere that had those kinds of problems where either a good sense of community was fostered in the workplace so that people cared about each other (and those that didn't, didn't stay) or where the disciplinary process was effective enough to not allow that to continue. The first is almost impossible when the boss (corporate) cares so little about their employees. The second is almost impossible when the employee holds so much power as they do in a shortage.

You speak of how "doctorate" holders act. I was once one of those corporate retail doctorate holding employees. I will tell you this, what is not normal is how CVS, Walgreens, etc treat their employees who are doctorate holders or their lower wage employees who are so essential. Much of that problem is because of how other pharmacists allowed themselves to be treated when wages were high and jobs were plentiful. Now that wages are dropping and jobs less easy to get, we have lost the power we should have used to create a good workplace.

Hourly work in CA has its perks, though. I will gladly interact with a time clock 4x a day if it means making 1.5-2x my hourly rate if I'm held over 8/10 or 12 hours, respectively.

Side note 1 - I really wonder if the OT differential in CA is an underappreciated/unnoticed fact when out-of-state folks look at hourly rates/average annual wages vs. cost of living in deciding where to work. This isn't just for pharmacy, but for nursing, etc...

Side note 2 -- when I left CVS entering pharmacy school, I got maybe a steady stream of 5-6 settlement checks from all of the lunch abuse/break abuse lawsuits that resolved over the course of my 1st year. Definitely paid for a few meals!

I now work in my first true salary job. Everything else was a special kind of exempt hourly. I don't get paid overtime (though I do for extra shifts) but I do get to come in late or leave early sometimes without taking PTO if I need to for something like family or appointments. Sometimes I think it balances out.

 

[mentos]

Level of maturity in this thread kind of amazes me. You guys have gone to doctorate school; make six figures, and yet behave like a 5 year old throwing tantrum when someone has different views on something?

I hope for the sake of your career, this just your internet self and not how you behave in real world..

Dude it's an anonymous forum, don't take it so seriously. We're all here for fun.

it’s a troll account and everyone knows it.. I am not referring to this thread between. I can post hundred threads proving this. He has been allowed to continue because he brings comedic value to this forum. His posts are often light-hearted and entertaining.

His posts are legit. We have a separate discord chat and he speaks the same way. Not just about pharmacy, we have random off topic discussions too.

 

[Tom Applewood]

I don't know, sounds like your real problem is corporate not staffing your store adequately and you are taking it out on your coworkers because they're not killing themselves for CVS.

Pretty much this, agreed, and see a lot of echo in the thread. We are helping patients. We are NOT helping a corporation. The corp can suck balls, at any time, all the time, every time. Corps suck. Corps will abuse us, our techs, our patients, every single effing person in the world, to milk profit. They're not evil... that's just what they do. An animal eats. An animal sleeps. An animal defecates. It follows instinct. So does a corp. It exists for profit.
Of course the corp is going to keep cutting tech hours. They'll hire a little bit, now, to try to fend off the crisis, but then they'll go back to their old ways. Wag & CVS will start more central fill locations, and strip hours from stores. They'll want a certain number of tests & vaccines per day, or else strip hours from stores. They will never staff for the maximum potential need; they will always staff for the bare minimum, and continue to burn us all out.
Techs and all other entry level workers, retail, amazon, fedex, UPS, warehouses, clerks, banks, etc: they're NOT DUMB. They know all this. There is also a huge generational gap in the workforce right now. Boomers are still working. GenX is still lost as the smallest demographic and sick of all the bullcrap from both sides. Millennials and Zoomers don't want to work. They want life outside work, so they'll punch in, go through the motions, and punch out. Can't say I blame them too much, honestly. You can't have work-life balance without LIFE. We get one chance at life, at parenting, at everything. Work is not the endgame.

We exist for our patients. We have to care for ourselves, before we care for our patients. Until we finally learn to push back and push that message up the corp ladder and take a stand, the entire profession of pharmacy is a phailure.
Right now, there's so much noise. Stay focused. We can't just squeaky wheel about everything all at once.
With CVS recently announcing lunch breaks, other chains will have to follow. Most everywhere Walgreens and CVS already did... but punitive metrics make their still work through lunch anyways.
#pizzaisntworking or #pizzaisnotworking
The big 3 we now have to consistently push for (now that we got lunch & breaks):
1) hire more techs
2) 8 hour shifts
3) non-punitive metrics

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

You corporate sucker. I bet your techs must hate your guts.

You think they're a corporate sucker for taking breaks?

 

[Sparda29]

You think they're a corporate sucker for taking breaks?

Nah, he think's he's a corporate sucker for being upset about techs taking breaks.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Nah, he think's he's a corporate sucker for being upset about techs taking breaks.

H U H

 

[Sparda29]

H U H

The guy you're quoting is calling OP a corporate sucker for being upset about workers taking long breaks.