WashU vs UVA vs UF vs UCF

[narren]

Okay, so I am terrible at making decisions. I have already narrowed down my list quite a bit, but money is coming into play heavily. If money was not a factor at all, my preference, in order, would be UVA, followed extremely closely by WashU, and then less so by UF, and finally UCF.

But, money is an issue, especially since my parents, who look good on paper but are too tied up in debt to help me out, can't really pitch in. UVA gave me about 12K need-based for the first year (net tuition thus ~33K), but this will go away during second and third years when my sister graduates from college (even though she is on scholarship now), causing my EFC to double. WashU gave me about 10K (net tuition thus ~37K). Florida gave me an amount equivalent to a free textbook, but I'm in-state (net tuition thus ~28K). UCF, of course, is freeee (~0 K).

The problem with this decision is that I'm a fairly flexible person, and so I don't predict that I'd be miserable at any of these places. And so, being fairly cheap, UCF is currently my frontrunner, as it would amount to be hundreds of thousands of dollars--aka a house--less than the others. UF would be the next economical and would be much less risky in terms of residency placement, but it would be pretty near the range of the other two schools that I'd rather attend.

So, would I be careless to pick UCF? Would it really mess up residency chances (i.e. eliminate me from getting a competitive spot if I wanted it)? I think, even though it would be my last pick in an ideal monetary situation, I would still very much like being there, and I really feel that it is on track to eventually become a top school nationally. Thus, I do like it for several other reasons than the money.

As far as what doctors have told me, they have been about 50/50, some saying I'd be an idiot to pass up free tutition at UCF, or I'd be an idiot to risk going to UCF and pass up WashU. Of course, these opinions are split down the academic/private practice lines, but I'm not yet sure where I'd like my career path to end up.

I know this is long and complicated and that I'm an indecisive basket case, but any help or advice you could give would be most appreciated.

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[ChubbyChaser]

I would pick UCF.

 

[RoadRunner17]

I know this is long and complicated and that I'm an indecisive basket case, but any help or advice you could give would be most appreciated.

If you could fix the above bolded part, that would be the best solution.

But seriously, I would personally narrow it down to WashU vs UCF.. with UCF getting a slight edge because it's free. Also, as far as I can tell, where you go to med school isn't as important as what you do there.. if you feel like you'll be successful at UCF, then go there and don't look back.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

UCF does seem on top of their ****...so thats another plus for UCF..I dont think it willhinder you.

 

[RL536]

Gosh, this is actually a really tough decision. Given free tuition anywhere, I would definitely say go there. That's a huge deal. BUT, with UCF... it's more complicated. There are just so many unknown factors about going there and what it will produce. Nevertheless, I think your feeling is right -- I think they are going to become a great school... and the incoming class will especially have a stellar reputation, since it's obvious that they all must be pretty superior to receive full rides! Even if it's not considered top-tier by the time you do your residency interviews, people will know this about your class. So I would say UCF. It will set you apart and, for pete's sake, it's free. I'll be paying 70k per year, total COA. I am miserable !

If you like to play it safe, however, and if money wasn't really that important to be THE deciding factor, then i'd vote for UVa or WashU (i'm very partial to UVa, however, simply because I think it's absolutely awesome). The COA there, while still hugely more than UCF, is not that bad in comparison to what some of us are paying, so you'd still be ahead of the game.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'd pick Wash U... it will give you the most opportunities of any of those schools.

 

[veaselhaufen]

Man, that is a tough decision and I think you have every reason to fret about it. If staying in Florida is a big deal to you then I would choose UCF. Otherwise I would definitely go to UVA. Forget the wash u drones and UF doesn't even make sense

 

[atomi]

OP,

Take a look at what the acceptance ratio was for UCF. This is not undergrad. Do not worry about 'fit' or where you think you will have the most fun. You are in med school to learn, get your degree, and get out. It is professional school, not college. Some young students may treat it like college, but that is not what it is.

You already know the answer to this question.

 

[UVAbme2009]

I'm not sure how you can pass up free tuition. I would go to any US Allo school that offered me free tuition.

 

[flip26]

I'd pick Wash U... it will give you the most opportunities of any of those schools.

You have become a broken record on these threads RE going with the higher ranked school no matter what the cost differential, even when the OP indicates that cost is a key factor.

OP, follow the $...

 

[chiz2kul]

I'd pick Wash U... it will give you the most opportunities of any of those schools.

You have become a broken record on these threads RE going with the higher ranked school no matter what the cost differential, even when the OP indicates that cost is a key factor.

OP, follow the $...

I thought I was the only one who thought so....

 

[drizzt3117]

You have become a broken record on these threads RE going with the higher ranked school no matter what the cost differential, even when the OP indicates that cost is a key factor.

OP, follow the $...

I generally think that people ARE best off going to the better school regardless of cost. I don't think I need to repeat my treatise about debt-adverse SDNites and how that compares to most medical practitioners I've interacted with. That said, the case of UCF is even more unique simply because the program hasn't graduated a single person, so no one has any idea how they'll be regarded by PDs.

 

[Beta Cell]

OP, for me, it would be very close between UCF and WashU. Cost is an issue, so go to UCF. Also, where did you do your undergrad?

 

[narren]

OP, for me, it would be very close between UCF and WashU. Cost is an issue, so go to UCF. Also, where did you do your undergrad?

I went to UF.

 

[shindotp]

I generally think that people ARE best off going to the better school regardless of cost. I don't think I need to repeat my treatise about debt-adverse SDNites and how that compares to most medical practitioners I've interacted with. That said, the case of UCF is even more unique simply because the program hasn't graduated a single person, so no one has any idea how they'll be regarded by PDs.

I agree. Although debt is really important, opportunities and experiences that med schools have to offer will impact one's life at least as much as having an extra $2000 a month or so would. SDNers seem to think debt is a lot worse than it actually is.

 

[Beta Cell]

I went to UF.

I go to UF currently. I'd really like to see your MDapps (if you don't want to make it public, you can PM me if it, if you'd like). I haven't spoken to anyone in person here that has any of those top top acceptances, but you're the second person from SDN I've met from UF that has some nice acceptances.

Also, did you ever use Robert Kwong? What did you think of him? He seemed pretty well-versed when I did the mock interview with him for JHMP. I haven't used him for actual medical school advice yet though.

 

[pianola]

Florida gave me an amount equivalent to a free textbook

You and me both, man.

You and me both.

Honestly, in your situation, with no help from parents, I might be tempted to choose UCF (and I'm on the waitlist). I was really blown away by the interview day (which is obviously not going to tell you what the school is like totally).

But if you do decide that you absolutely can't go to UCF (for whatever reason), I'd pick the school with the lowest debt load, cause there's no way you can go wrong with either UVA or WashU.

I really think your decision may be dependent on what you think you can accomplish during the 4 years of medical school. If you know that you will be successful regardless of where you go and you are confident in your abilities, then maybe it will be worth it to take on the debt load.

Good luck, though, I feel you.

 

[pianola]

By the way, I feel for your decision. Entirely. I really wish you the best in whatever you decide.

You're looking at a much huger tuition gap than I am for your OOS school. (I'm probably going to choose Baylor over UF but there is a much smaller difference between the two).

Please don't hesitate to let us know what you decide.

 

[longhorn09]

If I were you, I would pick WashU, honestly.

 

[bobdogsam43]

how many peeps in this thread are waitlisted at WashU???




pick WashU...

 

[tallface]

If you want to go into academic medicine, I'd do WashU or UVa. WashU would be better for that, but if you like UVa a lot more than WashU, go there.

If you want to go into private practice, go to UCF. My cousin just started his own private practice, and he had to take out about $700K in loans to do that alone. That on top of school loans and house payments would be terrible.

 

[87138]

Something to keep in mind: With few exceptions, as a pre-med you really have absolutely no idea what you're actually looking for in a school.

I'm not suggesting any school over the other, but just something to keep in mind.

 

[mrmandrake]

I would go with WashU although UCF is admittedly very attractive. I think 37k/year is worth the name though. My brother and cousin both owe $200k after finishing med school and they told me you will never have to worry that much about debt. They both went to top 10 schools and said the name has opened doors for them, but that's the only thing it does.

But .... if you don't want to specialize and want to do family medicine or pediatrics or something like that, go for UCF ... who needs to go to WashU for either one of those?

 

[sarahl86]

I would go with WashU although UCF is admittedly very attractive. I think 37k/year is worth the name though. My brother and cousin both owe $200k after finishing med school and they told me you will never have to worry that much about debt. They both went to top 10 schools and said the name has opened doors for them, but that's the only thing it does.

But .... if you don't want to specialize and want to do family medicine or pediatrics or something like that, go for UCF ... who needs to go to WashU for either one of those?

You kind of negated your own argument there if you are implying OP couldn't get into competitive specialties if he decides to go to UCF...again, if. I think its hard for anyone to know what they're going into before they do rotations but the money of specializing certainly makes for a more attractive deal.

Tough decision OP, but in the grand scheme of things, medical school could cost you a lot more than the $37k/year of tuition at WashU or whatever else at UVa and Florida - they're all great programs. As for how much more you'd be afforded by going to WashU instead of UCF, I don't think anyone can really tell you for sure what difference it will make to PDs. Med school will be what you make of it and though it would be nice to go to a place with TONS more research opportunities (if you're looking into academic medicine) or better facilities --I haven't seen either place so I couln't tell you-- great board scores and strong academic performace are what WILL open doors for you residency-wise. And I have a feeling the right person could achieve this at almost any medical school.

 

[mrmandrake]

You kind of negated your own argument there if you are implying OP couldn't get into competitive specialties if he decides to go to UCF...again, if.

I am implying that it would be harder to get into a competitive residency if the OP went to UCF so go to WashU if he/she wants to get into a competitive residency. I dont get how I negated my argument.

 

[drizzt3117]

No one has any idea how PDs will view UCF students, because they've never graduated a class before, I think it's certainly a valid argument to say that this should be a concern for people <shrug>

 

[antarly]

I would pick UCF maybe is because I am attending UCF right now but I think that UCF will result in a good med school. All depends in your priority, If I were you I would pick UCF because it is free.

 

[sarahl86]

I am implying that it would be harder to get into a competitive residency if the OP went to UCF so go to WashU if he/she wants to get into a competitive residency. I dont get how I negated my argument.

By saying going to a Top 10 opened doors "but that's the only thing it does." If it only opens doors (that would also be available to a top-notch applicant from any school) but isn't a deciding factor then its not such a huge deal. True, we don't know how PDs will respond to graduates from a new school vs an established one but I don't think that in knowing all accredited/schools seeking accreditation have to meet the same curriculum standards that UCF graduates would be any less competent as physicians or capable of doing to things necessary to ace the boards, which will carry more weight with PDs than going to a school who's repuatation has yet to be established.

However, all else equal between applicants with identical stats, a PD would probably select the WashU grad. The chances of things coming to that are pretty small though. I'm arguing several other factors take precedence over the school on the OP's degree. Its fair to worry about this happening, but how much he/she is willing to spend on their medical education is entirely up to them.

 

[mrmandrake]

By saying going to a Top 10 opened doors "but that's the only thing it does."

I guess you and I have differing opinions on the value of "opening doors". I believe it is a huge deciding factor.

If it only opens doors (that would also be available to a top-notch applicant from any school) but isn't a deciding factor then its not such a huge deal.

I hoped to imply that these "open doors" would not be available to someone from another school which is why I recommended going to WashU for that privilege, but I guess you didn't get that.

 

[narren]

So, I dropped WashU and UVA today. It was quite painful, etc, but after talking with my parents about what they could realistically give me over the next 4 years, I calculated that I'd owe over 200K afterwards, and then almost half a million after interest if I did a long-term payment plan. I'm just too cheap for that.

The UF vs UCF debate is more interesting, and I still have another week to decide between the two (UCF let me in just a week ago). While my cheap side, as well as some of my other random sides, is loving UCF, 2 doctors I've talked to, one being a chief of medicine) said that they'd pick UF in a second over UCF, since PD's won't give the latter any weight for another 10 years or so. The chief's exact words were, "They're paying you to take a crappy residency." That may be too harsh, but that statement is hard to get out of my head. So, as of now, I'm leaning towards UF, which, all things considered, shouldn't be awful, but is likely a safer bet. I am just spiteful at them for only giving me enough aid for a textbook (used, and without the accompanying CD-ROM).

 

[SDN2013]

why did you choose UF over WashU? Weren't the two almost comparable in cost?

 

[19nbj58]

So, I dropped WashU and UVA today. It was quite painful, etc, but after talking with my parents about what they could realistically give me over the next 4 years, I calculated that I'd owe over 200K afterwards, and then almost half a million after interest if I did a long-term payment plan. I'm just too cheap for that.

The UF vs UCF debate is more interesting, and I still have another week to decide between the two (UCF let me in just a week ago). While my cheap side, as well as some of my other random sides, is loving UCF, 2 doctors I've talked to, one being a chief of medicine) said that they'd pick UF in a second over UCF, since PD's won't give the latter any weight for another 10 years or so. The chief's exact words were, "They're paying you to take a crappy residency." That may be too harsh, but that statement is hard to get out of my head. So, as of now, I'm leaning towards UF, which, all things considered, shouldn't be awful, but is likely a safer bet. I am just spiteful at them for only giving me enough aid for a textbook (used, and without the accompanying CD-ROM).

goodluck

 

[narren]

why did you choose UF over WashU? Weren't the two almost comparable in cost?

No. WashU was 47K, and the grant was 7 (not 10, as I mistakenly put), making the total 40/yr. And since my sister leaves college after my second year, the grant will go away, and the total will be 47K again. So the net will be 40+40+47+47 (=174K tuition only) for WashU vs. 28*4 (= 112 K tuition only) for UF.

 

[dmblue]

It's too late to mention this, but living expenses at WashU would probably be a lot lower.

 

[pianola]

I am just spiteful at them for only giving me enough aid for a textbook (used, and without the accompanying CD-ROM).

Tell me about it. Tell me about it.

I guess its too late to mention this now, but did you apply to UMiami? Cause they give a whoppingly huge dose of aid.

And by the way, I would just like to congratulate you on withstanding the pressure of SDN and making your own decision.

If I had been in your shoes I probably would have made the same one (not sure about UCF, but definitely would be deciding between UF and UCF).

I would like to say congratulations to you and that I think you made the right decision regardless of what anyone else might tell you.

 

[nlax30]

I'll just add my 2 cents in and say UCF.

There are a good amount of resources there and enough momentum behind it that I think it'll be a good school. Yeah, of course we don't know how PDs will view the graduates but my personal opinion is that what YOU personally do and achieve is weighed heavier than the "name" of your school so just focus on doing well and making those important connections as you go along.

Not sure where you're from but I would MUCH rather live in Orlando area than Gainesville.

 

[slipstream99]

Although this is a bit after-the-fact, maybe it will help ease your mind. I was in a similar position about a month ago, essentially having narrowed my list down to WashU and UCF. I had a similar financial aid package that you had at WashU and, like you said, UCF was obviously free. Not only that, but it is actually paid, so you don't even have living expenses, making the difference between WashU (174k in tuition for you) and UCF (free) even greater once you factor in those costs. I was basically set on UCF for this reason. However, a number of other factors came into play. (1) UCF is extremely on top of things. I have no doubt that the charter class will receive an excellent education. Sure, there may be a few bumps here and there, but overall I think it will be superb. (2) Members of the charter class had to go through a rigorous selection process to ensure they were top of the line students. While I'm unsure how future classes will stack up against the charter class, I have no doubt that the class of 2013 will perform well, ensuring that residency placements are strong. These two lines of reasoning - as well as other less important factors - made me comfortable with my choice to attend UCF and, I think, make it an excellent choice for you.

Bottom line: You didn't make a mistake withdrawing from WashU but picking UF over UCF would be crazy.

(As a side note, I was lucky enough to receive a full tuition scholarship at WashU, making the money issue a lot less important. In light of this, I'll be matriculating there next year instead so it looks like we won't be classmates.)

 

[QuaerensIntelle]

I had a similar issue. I was offered a large scholarship by UPitt and was also accepted at UCFCOM. It was a tough decision, but all the physicians I talked to told me to take the money (I live in Orlando so they were familiar with the school).

From what I can gather, you make your own destiny-yes you will have to be a stronger individual to get where you want to go, but it is not precluded by going to a new school. Furthermore, it seems that new schools sometimes are more flexible about away rotations etc. and will care more about the success of each individual. Not having any debt means the freedom to take a 5th year and do publishable research without worrying about loans capitalizing.

I believe that UCF will be a strong program, at least on par with USF/UF etc. and these schools allow students the chance to get any residency they want. Orlando has a huge patient population, lots of travelers(interesting cases), UCF is a huge research institution-and always growing, the facilities will be gorgeous-best I've seen out of the 7 schools i Interviewed at, and I am guessing they will continue giving more aid than any other florida school (75% to the next class would be my guess). All of these factors seem to evidence success in the future. Will it be Wash U? Probably not in the foreseeable future.

Lastly, I went to UCF undergrad-a complete no name school, and had the opportunity to go to any medical school in the country (was accepted to a top 10)....so why should residencies be any different?

I'm following the money..but also the opportunity to be influential in the success/future of the school.

 

[spike22]

UVA. It doesn't matter where you go so much as how you do in medical school. What you learn for the boards. You don't wanna be a in a ton of debt. Just my opinion.