The Investment Thread (stocks, bonds, real estate, retirement, just not gold)

[WVUPharm2007]

I think I figured out what I'll do if pharmacy as a career peters out. I'm getting into gutter maintenance.

Gutters are a racket. Anybody can do this ****.

I wanted to get a small section of my gutters rehung that fell down after the leaves fell and got all wet. I wanted to get gutter guards installed, too. These ****boys around here are trying to charge people like $300 to rehang the gutter and like $2000 for the gutter guards. I went to Home Depot. I bought like 6 gutter hangers for about $15. Hoisted my butt up the ladder with a level, made sure the slope was slight and toward the drain. Bzzzp. Bzzzp. Bzzzp. Moved the ladder a few feet over. More Bzzzp. Boom, done. Cost, again, $15. And don't get me started on the guards. You can roll on down to Costco, buy the materials for a few hundred dollars, and just do it yourself. Or even easier, get some of those gutter foam things and throw them in there for cheap as hell. It looks rather trifiling, but who is up there looking into your gutters, anyway?

A damn racket.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

I think I figured out what I'll do if pharmacy as a career peters out. I'm getting into gutter maintenance.

Gutters are a racket. Anybody can do this ****.

I wanted to get a small section of my gutters rehung that fell down after the leaves fell and got all wet. I wanted to get gutter guards installed, too. These ****boys around here are trying to charge people like $300 to rehang the gutter and like $2000 for the gutter guards. I went to Home Depot. I bought like 6 gutter hangers for about $15. Hoisted my butt up the ladder with a level, made sure the slope was slight and toward the drain. Bzzzp. Bzzzp. Bzzzp. Moved the ladder a few feet over. More Bzzzp. Boom, done. Cost, again, $15. And don't get me started on the guards. You can roll on down to Costco, buy the materials for a few hundred dollars, and just do it yourself. Or even easier, get some of those gutter foam things and throw them in there for cheap as hell. It looks rather trifiling, but who is up there looking into your gutters, anyway?

A damn racket.

Pro tip: Clean the leaves out of your gutter before the gutters fall down and then you don't have to replace the gutters.

 

[libra08]

I think I figured out what I'll do if pharmacy as a career peters out. I'm getting into gutter maintenance.

Gutters are a racket. Anybody can do this ****.

I wanted to get a small section of my gutters rehung that fell down after the leaves fell and got all wet. I wanted to get gutter guards installed, too. These ****boys around here are trying to charge people like $300 to rehang the gutter and like $2000 for the gutter guards. I went to Home Depot. I bought like 6 gutter hangers for about $15. Hoisted my butt up the ladder with a level, made sure the slope was slight and toward the drain. Bzzzp. Bzzzp. Bzzzp. Moved the ladder a few feet over. More Bzzzp. Boom, done. Cost, again, $15. And don't get me started on the guards. You can roll on down to Costco, buy the materials for a few hundred dollars, and just do it yourself. Or even easier, get some of those gutter foam things and throw them in there for cheap as hell. It looks rather trifiling, but who is up there looking into your gutters, anyway?

A damn racket.

Installing EV charger is a big money…..easily $700-900. You can also upsell by getting them to upgrade to 200 amp power panel so they can charge their car at max rate. Easy money.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Pro tip: Clean the leaves out of your gutter before the gutters fall down and then you don't have to replace the gutters.

Well, when you work 84 hours a week, the leaves come down and you literally have had zero time to do it, and the **** falls before your work week ends when you planned to clean them, what can you do?

 

[libra08]

And this is how California exports its seniors out of California who are no longer economically productive and need expensive healthcare. They are yours Florida, Nevada, Texas, Arizona, Colorado

 

[WVUPharm2007]

And this is how California exports its seniors out of California who are no longer economically productive and need expensive healthcare. They are yours Florida, Nevada, Texas, Arizona, Colorado


View attachment 379415

Many rich elderly Californians are leaving, too. The taxation benefits in Florida are too good to pass up for a lot of people. You can sell at bubble prices in California and buy a bigger house for cheaper in Florida. You can go from solidly upper middle class to flat out wealthy.

Also, the federal government pays for their healthcare as well as provides social security. I'm not sure California's economy "gains" anything from them leaving.

I have no desire to live in either. If I want lower taxes and property, I'll move to Delaware.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

And this is how California exports its seniors out of California who are no longer economically productive and need expensive healthcare. They are yours Florida, Nevada, Texas, Arizona, Colorado


View attachment 379415

This is the exact opposite of what happens RE healthcare. 10 states have still not expanded Medicaid as permitted under the Affordable Care Act. It would cost them virtually nothing while insuring an additional 2+ million people. Why not expand Medicaid? The obvious answer is so that poor people will move to San Francisco where they can at least get healthcare.

In case you're wondering, the 10 states in question are: Wyoming, Kansas, Texas, Wisconsin, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina and Florida.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

What poor person is moving to California for Medicaid purposes? Lol.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

What poor person is moving to California for Medicaid purposes? Lol.

Well, 475,000 people made the move last year. I'm sure there were a few struggling actresses waiting to be discovered in that number.

 

[libra08]

This is the exact opposite of what happens RE healthcare. 10 states have still not expanded Medicaid as permitted under the Affordable Care Act. It would cost them virtually nothing while insuring an additional 2+ million people. Why not expand Medicaid? The obvious answer is so that poor people will move to San Francisco where they can at least get healthcare.

In case you're wondering, the 10 states in question are: Wyoming, Kansas, Texas, Wisconsin, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina and Florida.

Poor seniors also qualify for Medicaid in Florida. California sent more seniors to Florida than to any other state. Keep them. They are just taking space from a productive young family.

 

[libra08]

Many rich elderly Californians are leaving, too. The taxation benefits in Florida are too good to pass up for a lot of people. You can sell at bubble prices in California and buy a bigger house for cheaper in Florida. You can go from solidly upper middle class to flat out wealthy.

Also, the federal government pays for their healthcare as well as provides social security. I'm not sure California's economy "gains" anything from them leaving.

I have no desire to live in either. If I want lower taxes and property, I'll move to Delaware.

Some but the vast majority are nowhere to being rich. Peak spending is 45-55 years old so these seniors are not going to spend lavishly. They are going to cash out of their house in California and buy a house in a new state…a young educated family can move in. It is also good for the state because the property tax can then be adjusted to market rate. Big win for Californians

So yes, please take them (and take care of them). More room for us

 

[PharmtoCS]

This is the exact opposite of what happens RE healthcare. 10 states have still not expanded Medicaid as permitted under the Affordable Care Act. It would cost them virtually nothing while insuring an additional 2+ million people. Why not expand Medicaid? The obvious answer is so that poor people will move to San Francisco where they can at least get healthcare.

In case you're wondering, the 10 states in question are: Wyoming, Kansas, Texas, Wisconsin, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina and Florida.

Are there that many poor people moving to San Francisco for healthcare though? Most of the people living in the states in question could probably afford some degree of housing on a minimum wage, whereas in San Francisco they could only afford to live in a tent.

 

[mentos]

BTC is up 260% YTD. The ETFs and halvening are coming next year. It's going to be a wild bull market in 2024-2025.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

BTC is up 260% YTD. The ETFs and halvening are coming next year. It's going to be a wild bull market in 2024-2025.

The fake internet money stuff is still around?

 

[mentos]

The fake internet money stuff is still around?

Yep, Blackrock and Gray Scale are going to have ETFs soon. You can already buy BTC and ETH on Fidelity. SOL is supported by VISA. I don't question it anymore, just roll with it.

Remember when everyone made fun of El Salvador for YOLOing their budget into BTC? They are in the green now.

 

[Splenda88]

Yep, Blackrock and Gray Scale are going to have ETFs soon. You can already buy BTC and ETH on Fidelity. SOL is supported by VISA. I don't question it anymore, just roll with it.

Remember when everyone made fun of El Salvador for YOLOing their budget into BTC? They are in the green now.

Interesting. But it appears that you do need to have a crypto account with them.

 

[Z-Qualizer]

Yep, Blackrock and Gray Scale are going to have ETFs soon. You can already buy BTC and ETH on Fidelity. SOL is supported by VISA. I don't question it anymore, just roll with it.

Remember when everyone made fun of El Salvador for YOLOing their budget into BTC? They are in the green now.

Or the people who made fun of Michael saylor or rooted for him to go broke/bankrupt with his bitcoin investment?

I read the other day that he’s now $2 BILLION in the green. Probably even more now.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

I'm up 47% on BTC, which is nice... but it's just as quick to go down.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Still no use case. Still only like 6-7 transactions on the actual ledger an hour. It costs $25 or so to do a transaction on the actual ledger. The only far way to do it is with one of those lightning networks, but not your keys, not your crypto.

It's still insanity.

I wish you all luck anyway. I'll continue investing in actual companies that make things.

 

[Z-Qualizer]

Still no use case. Still only like 6-7 transactions on the actual ledger an hour. It costs $25 or so to do a transaction on the actual ledger. The only far way to do it is with one of those lightning networks, but not your keys, not your crypto.

It's still insanity.

I wish you all luck anyway. I'll continue investing in actual companies that make things.

No one (aware) is still arguing that bitcoin is an effective/efficient payment system - its use case has evolved over the past 15 years. Although the lightning network does make bitcoin easier to use in that manner.

Currently, the best use case for bitcoin is as a store of value - a “digital gold” if you will. It is a scarce, desired asset with a fixed supply that is secured and verified on the blockchain. For the same reason someone would store/generate wealth in gold, and buy things in USD, they could do the former with BTC.

 

[owlegrad]

Scarce is a bit misleading. It’s infinitely divisible so you can always just buy a smaller fraction of a coin.

 

[Z-Qualizer]

Scarce is a bit misleading. It’s infinitely divisible so you can always just buy a smaller fraction of a coin.

I’ve heard that argument before too… but dividing something into smaller units doesn’t create more of that thing, or make it any less scarce.

Whether you measure the water in a swimming pool by gallons or milliliters, it doesn’t change the overall amount of water in the pool.

Conversely, when the US government prints more money, they are actually increasing the size of the swimming pool and the amount of water in it, which decreases the value of the water (supply vs. demand).

 

[Splenda88]

Still no use case. Still only like 6-7 transactions on the actual ledger an hour. It costs $25 or so to do a transaction on the actual ledger. The only far way to do it is with one of those lightning networks, but not your keys, not your crypto.

It's still insanity.

I wish you all luck anyway. I'll continue investing in actual companies that make things.

I am like you. I can't still bring myself out to invest in crypto.

 

[Splenda88]

I'm up 47% on BTC, which is nice... but it's just as quick to go down.

What are you waiting for to sell?

 

[Z-Qualizer]

What are you waiting for to sell?

It’s waaay too early to sell. We’ve got at least 12-18 more months of mostly bullish activity coming.

 

[mentos]

What are you waiting for to sell?

The next halvening hasn't happened yet. Crypto runs up every 4 years. Plus the ETFs haven't been released yet. People will buy the ETFs in their IRAs. These are 2 big events that are expected to fuel the next bull run.

This recent pump came a little early. If BTC is this high now then imagine how high it'll be in 18-24 months.

 

[mentos]

Still no use case. Still only like 6-7 transactions on the actual ledger an hour. It costs $25 or so to do a transaction on the actual ledger. The only far way to do it is with one of those lightning networks, but not your keys, not your crypto.

It's still insanity.

I wish you all luck anyway. I'll continue investing in actual companies that make things.

I can see why people in countries like Argentina would choose BTC over fiat. They have 124% inflation.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Or people in war torn countries. They can't access their funds from their local bank but they can access their coins.

But for the average privileged American, yeah not much use case. No one is arguing that.

 

[Sparda29]

Installing EV charger is a big money…..easily $700-900. You can also upsell by getting them to upgrade to 200 amp power panel so they can charge their car at max rate. Easy money.

Don't you have to be a licensed electrician to do this?

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

Don't you have to be a licensed electrician to do this?

I paid an electrician $50 + parts to install mine. Took him about 15 minutes. It was a cheap charger I bought at Lowe's. My total cost was maybe $400. This was a few years ago--only did a 50 amp circuit and about 10 feet of cable/conduit.

 

[libra08]

I can see why people in countries like Argentina would choose BTC over fiat. They have 124% inflation.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Or people in war torn countries. They can't access their funds from their local bank but they can access their coins.

But for the average privileged American, yeah not much use case. No one is arguing that.

Argentina has debt up to its neck. How is it going to pay off its debt without printing money? It is basically an inflation tax on every citizen. BTC is not Argentina’s secret sauce to stopping inflation.

 

[libra08]

Don't you have to be a licensed electrician to do this?

A handyman without a license can do it but for marketing purpose it is better to have one

 

[libra08]

US collects $4T in taxes but is spending $6T. Do you know how painful it would be to cut $2T in spending? Widespread unemployment which will lead to violent crimes. Seniors won’t get full social security check. Healthcare needs to be cut across the board. Drop in spending also means drop in the stock market, real estate, etc

 

[mentos]

Installing EV charger is a big money…..easily $700-900. You can also upsell by getting them to upgrade to 200 amp power panel so they can charge their car at max rate. Easy money.

The $1,000 EV charger tax credit has been extended for 10 years. The basic ones only cost $200-300 now and electrician labor shouldn't cost more than $500 or so.

The EV Charger Tax Credit Gets A 10-Year Extension—And A Few Upgrades

A recently expired federal tax break for electric vehicle (EV) chargers got new life under the recently passed Inflation Reduction Act—a move that will give taxpayers up to $1,000 in a tax credit. The section 30C tax credit–officially referred to as the Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property

www.forbes.com

Some EVs come with free chargers and installion. The charger cost is negligible in the long run.

The depreciation is big money though. EVs depreciate 25%+ as soon as you buy it. The best deal is to buy a used EV with the 4k used EV tax credit.

 

[mentos]

Argentina has debt up to its neck. How is it going to pay off its debt without printing money? It is basically an inflation tax on every citizen. BTC is not Argentina’s secret sauce to stopping inflation.

BTC won't save Argentina but for the average Joe's working for peanuts, they are better off buying BTC than keeping their money in the bank.

 

[libra08]

BTC won't save Argentina but for the average Joe's working for peanuts, they are better off buying BTC than keeping their money in the bank.

Let’s be real here. Most people invest in BTC not because it is an inflation hedge (many other options for that) but because they think they can time it right and make a small fortune. They think they can resell it for a much higher price to the next guy but most end up buying high and selling low or getting scammed. They then vow to never touch BTC again but they end up getting caught in the next hype and getting rug pulled (again).

You do you but you need to go in big like 6 figures if you want to make live changing fortune. I, on the other hand, feel more comfortable with investing that much into rental properties and collecting my measly monthly rent. No need to convince the world to buy my properties.

 

[pharmdeep]

The next halvening hasn't happened yet. Crypto runs up every 4 years. Plus the ETFs haven't been released yet. People will buy the ETFs in their IRAs. These are 2 big events that are expected to fuel the next bull run.

This recent pump came a little early. If BTC is this high now then imagine how high it'll be in 18-24 months.

"crypto runs up every 4 years" ... why are we speaking in absolutes ? means absolutely nothing

 

[pharmdeep]

Let’s be real here. Most people invest in BTC not because it is an inflation hedge (many other options for that) but because they think they can time it right and make a small fortune. They think they can resell it for a much higher price to the next guy but most end up buying high and selling low or getting scammed. They then vow to never touch BTC again but they end up getting caught in the next hype and getting rug pulled (again).

You do you but you need to go in big like 6 figures if you want to make live changing fortune. I, on the other hand, feel more comfortable with investing that much into rental properties and collecting my measly monthly rent. No need to urge the world to buy my properties.

It may seem this way if you're living the states, but in countries where inflation is out of control, BTC might be more widely used. I was surprised when my friend in Asia told me to send him money using XRP a few years back. I think it's use is much more widespread outside of the U.S.

 

[Z-Qualizer]

"crypto runs up every 4 years" ... why are we speaking in absolutes ? means absolutely nothing

Although “past performance is not indicative of future results” blah, blah, blah…

We DO have 15 years of hard data showing that Bitcoin does exactly that. Until it shows otherwise, I’m going to assume that will continue.

The “run up” has already started - stay tuned and enjoy the show!!

 

[libra08]

Crypto gets a lot of attention but its whole market cap is just 1.6T which is about the size of Amazon market cap. Even after Luna scammed everyone..its market cap is still $1b. Since many of the small crypto companies don’t really make anything, have regular revenue or are regulated, they can be much easier to manipulate. That is why you see huge swings.

 

[libra08]

Although “past performance is not indicative of future results” blah, blah, blah…

We DO have 15 years of hard data showing that Bitcoin does exactly that. Until it shows otherwise, I’m going to assume that will continue.

The “run up” has already started - stay tuned and enjoy the show!!

If everyone believes Bitcoin goes up every 4 years and later crashes then that is what going to happen. Perception becomes reality. It is not like Bitcoin generates any income or makes groundbreaking advances. It is speculation but eventually the price will be so high that the “every 4 years” rules no longer apply.

 

[libra08]

It may seem this way if you're living the states, but in countries where inflation is out of control, BTC might be more widely used. I was surprised when my friend in Asia told me to send him money using XRP a few years back. I think it's use is much more widespread outside of the U.S.

Hedge against inflation is the selling point but when you compare inflation to Bitcoin, there is no correlation. The last couple of years should tell you that.

You also don’t need crypto to send money to your friend in Asia. There are already other ways that is cheaper, more efficient and is less likely to get scammed.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

The depreciation is big money though. EVs depreciate 25%+ as soon as you buy it. The best deal is to buy a used EV with the 4k used EV tax credit.

I'm keeping my eye on the Polestar 2s. They are starting to creep under $30k very lightly used. Once they get access to the Tesla chargers next year, they will be an attractive option.

 

[mentos]

Let’s be real here. Most people invest in BTC not because it is an inflation hedge (many other options for that) but because they think they can time it right and make a small fortune. They think they can resell it for a much higher price to the next guy but most end up buying high and selling low or getting scammed. They then vow to never touch BTC again but they end up getting caught in the next hype and getting rug pulled (again).

You do you but you need to go in big like 6 figures if you want to make live changing fortune. I, on the other hand, feel more comfortable with investing that much into rental properties and collecting my measly monthly rent. No need to convince the world to buy my properties.

I don't know the how the rental market is in Argentina but I'm guessing BTC is a better choice for them.

No one is trying to convince you to buy BTC.

 

[mentos]

"crypto runs up every 4 years" ... why are we speaking in absolutes ? means absolutely nothing

Because it does? Of course nothing is guaranteed but that's what has happened so far. It was under 17k a year ago and it has already run up to 44k, so that's even less than 4 years.

 

[mentos]

I'm keeping my eye on the Polestar 2s. They are starting to creep under $30k very lightly used. Once they get access to the Tesla chargers next year, they will be an attractive option.

They'll probably be under 25k used soon. Tesla just cut model 3 prices again.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

What are you waiting for to sell?

I don't plan on selling, at least not until it's a life-changing figure, or else I'll just hold it for 30-40 years and see what happens.

I bought it with play money and treat it as such. If it goes to zero, who cares. If it goes to to the moon... maybe I'll sell and retire early with a fat mansion in the wilderness and some nice cars.

 

[libra08]

People used to think we can keep kicking the can down the road and let the next generation pay for it. I think the pain will start with our generation.

 

[mentos]

View attachment 379656

People used to think we can keep kicking the can down the road and let the next generation pay for it. I think the pain will start with our generation.

Are those numbers adjusted for inflation? I ran them through an inflation calculator and it doesn't seem as bad.

In 2023 dollars:
2000: 10.18 tril
2010: 17.35 tril
2020: 27.58 tril

 

[Z-Qualizer]

I remember when I was in middle school the US national debt crossed the $3T threshold, and everyone in the media was freaking out… “the sky is falling!” “this isn’t sustainable!” “the US is going to lose its status as the Global reserve currency!”

Then it crossed $10T, $20T, $30T - same story each time… “we can’t keep doing this!”

Now here we are at ~$34T (and growing by the second). Maybe “this time will be different” but personally, I don’t see anything changing.

 

[libra08]

Are those numbers adjusted for inflation? I ran them through an inflation calculator and it doesn't seem as bad.

In 2023 dollars:
2000: 10.18 tril
2010: 17.35 tril
2020: 27.58 tril

Fuzzy math. Do you also go…I graduated in 2008 with $200 k in student loans and since I have not been paying it off it is now $500 k. However if I adjust my 2008 debt for inflation it is is actually $400 k. Therefore it is not so bad?