OEC Problems?

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NUKE

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I have heard some recent news that some of the OEC residents are getting out of their contracts. I hear that they are having to pay $200,000 to get out. OEC, because of these reasons, are cutting ties with several of the schools they were once interested in and are decreasing the number of spots in the schools they are currently in. I dont know if any of this is true just what I heard. If anyone has any info please let me know.
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That reminds me.....where's ol' Jedi these days?
 
NUKE said:
I have heard some recent news that some of the OEC residents are getting out of their contracts. I hear that they are having to pay $200,000 to get out. OEC, because of these reasons, are cutting ties with several of the schools they were once interested in and are decreasing the number of spots in the schools they are currently in. I dont know if any of this is true just what I heard. If anyone has any info please let me know.
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Where are you getting your information? I am very curious. Thanks.
 
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NUKE said:
I have heard some recent news that some of the OEC residents are getting out of their contracts. I hear that they are having to pay $200,000 to get out. OEC, because of these reasons, are cutting ties with several of the schools they were once interested in and are decreasing the number of spots in the schools they are currently in. I dont know if any of this is true just what I heard. If anyone has any info please let me know.
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I heard this same thing yesterday. Weird.
 
Jediwendell said:
I heard this same thing yesterday. Weird.
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I personally know of 1 person who paid back a huge sum (didn't pry too much but i'm pretty sure it was well over 200 G's). He basically said they promise a whole bunch of stuff, but every promise has like a million conditions - even the salary, # of patients, everything. they tell you how to run your practice, and life, and then when you don't satisfy them, cut your salary, office support, other things. i encouraged him to sign up for sdn, told me he has 0 free time. didn't ask him about his colleagues, if most are doing the same so I can't comment on that.
 
rraa said:
I personally know of 1 person who paid back a huge sum (didn't pry too much but i'm pretty sure it was well over 200 G's). He basically said they promise a whole bunch of stuff, but every promise has like a million conditions - even the salary, # of patients, everything. they tell you how to run your practice, and life, and then when you don't satisfy them, cut your salary, office support, other things. i encouraged him to sign up for sdn, told me he has 0 free time. didn't ask him about his colleagues, if most are doing the same so I can't comment on that.
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I have heard that, too, but I have also heard that OEC is withdrawing funding for their "residents" and the residencies that they have started. Also, OCA is going bankrupt. Good, if true.
 
Jediwendell said:
I have heard that, too, but I have also heard that OEC is withdrawing funding for their "residents" and the residencies that they have started. Also, OCA is going bankrupt. Good, if true.
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Heard the same thing - OEC couldn't come up with all the money for the resident scholarships.
 
Jediwendell said:
I have heard that, too, but I have also heard that OEC is withdrawing funding for their "residents" and the residencies that they have started. Also, OCA is going bankrupt. Good, if true.
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I thought OCA & OEC weren't affiliated anymore. They just happened to be started by the same person.

But after reading that article Col Sanders posted, all I can think is :eek: .
 
griffin04 said:
I thought OCA & OEC weren't affiliated anymore. They just happened to be started by the same person.

But after reading that article Col Sanders posted, all I can think is :eek: .
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Hopefully you didn't fall for that one Griff. You have seen how dirty the ortho world can be. :D
 
Further, that article points out how freakin' ******ed OEC is. 16 students start the program in August and another 16 in the Fall?! Sounds like a money-making factory to me.

I pity those that chose to enter that program.
 
ItsGavinC said:
Further, that article points out how freakin' ******ed OEC is. 16 students start the program in August and another 16 in the Fall?! Sounds like a money-making factory to me.

I pity those that chose to enter that program.
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Sounds like a money pit, to me. 32 residents coming out a year? What the heck do they plan on doing with all of those people?
 
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ItsGavinC said:
Further, that article points out how freakin' ******ed OEC is. 16 students start the program in August and another 16 in the Fall?! Sounds like a money-making factory to me.

I pity those that chose to enter that program.
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The article says sixteen people "started" in August. I take it to mean last Aug. And another 16 this fall. Surely they're not cranking out 32/yr. Regardless, OEC is indeed ******ed and will hopefully dry up like the piece of crap it is.
 
DDSSlave said:
The article says sixteen people "started" in August. I take it to mean last Aug. And another 16 this fall. Surely they're not cranking out 32/yr. Regardless, OEC is indeed ******ed and will hopefully dry up like the piece of crap it is.
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Yeah, you're right. I'm a ******. :rolleyes:
W
 
DDSSlave said:
The article says sixteen people "started" in August. I take it to mean last Aug. And another 16 this fall. Surely they're not cranking out 32/yr. Regardless, OEC is indeed ******ed and will hopefully dry up like the piece of crap it is.
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Right you are, my bad for doing a quick read. And apparently it is drying up...
 
OEC is here at UNLV and I had my first experience with the residents in a space maint. exercise. They were asked by the ortho prof to come in and help. The few that I worked with were complete *****s. You can 100% tell they were at the "bottom" of the ortho app pool. :eek: :thumbdown:
 
unlvdmd said:
OEC is here at UNLV and I had my first experience with the residents in a space maint. exercise. They were asked by the ortho prof to come in and help. The few that I worked with were complete *****s. You can 100% tell they were at the "bottom" of the ortho app pool. :eek: :thumbdown:
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Did you meet Naren Chelian? He certainly wasn't in the bottom, but he's not OEC either.
 
cuneatus2 said:
Did you meet Naren Chelian? He certainly wasn't in the bottom, but he's not OEC either.
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Not that I remember. Isn't ALL of UNLV OEC? I thought the whole program was sponsored by OEC but only a select few spots were the ones where you "sign" your life away. :confused: Anyone?
 
what we need is a bunch of guys from the bottom of the dental class to go into a specialty program, cause they did earn it. Lets make them super orthodontists!
 
Firm said:
OEC has major problems. Don't sign with them. They commit fraud!
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Very interesting. That is a change in tune from your previous posts.
 
niles19 said:
CU is not accepting and UNLV has directed all questions back to OEC. I do not know about Jacksonville.
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Where did you get this information? I just spoke with the CU Orthodontics Program Administrative assistant, she said that they are accepting applications for next years class. There will be 16 positions available with none of them being OEC positions.
 
Gunner1971 said:
Where did you get this information? I just spoke with the CU Orthodontics Program Administrative assistant, she said that they are accepting applications for next years class. There will be 16 positions available with none of them being OEC positions.
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We'll see if they actually accept 16, if this is true. I have heard different. If they charge 80 grand a year, they may be able to pull it off.
 
Jediwendell said:
We'll see if they actually accept 16, if this is true. I have heard different. If they charge 80 grand a year, they may be able to pull it off.
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Where did you hear this, I'm thinking of applying but not if it is 80 grand...does OEC still cover the tuition if you accept a scholarship?
 
wirebender said:
Where did you hear this, I'm thinking of applying but not if it is 80 grand...does OEC still cover the tuition if you accept a scholarship?
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Direct from the University of Colorado's program director, Dr. Larry Oesterle:

Tuition for one year--> $40,000 (currently a 27 month program)
Instrument fee--> $3,500
Laptop with required software--> approx. $2,200 (first year only)
Health insurance for self --> approx 2,500-3000
Misc fees (clinic coats, parking, pager, etc) approx $1,000

16 positions available for 2007 class
No OEC scholarships (No OEC support for this program)
No GME

Approximate new patient starts: 55-65 with 20-30 transfers as well
 
I know an OEC orthodontist. They are pulling his practice. He has an option to buy the equipment and maintain the lease on the building for a pretty good fee. The biggest plus is that he is completely absolved of his contract and non-competitive clause.

To sum it up, those that have completed the OEC program and have not yet fulfilled their 7 year post-graduate commitmenet (OEC taking 60% of the after overhead profits!!!) have run into the best possible thing that could have happened to them.
 
rrc said:
I know an OEC orthodontist. They are pulling his practice. He has an option to buy the equipment and maintain the lease on the building for a pretty good fee. The biggest plus is that he is completely absolved of his contract and non-competitive clause.

To sum it up, those that have completed the OEC program and have not yet fulfilled their 7 year post-graduate commitmenet (OEC taking 60% of the after overhead profits!!!) have run into the best possible thing that could have happened to them.
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I don't know about that. OEC wants there money back.
 
Gunner1971 said:
Direct from the University of Colorado's program director, Dr. Larry Oesterle:

Tuition for one year--> $40,000 (currently a 27 month program)
Instrument fee--> $3,500
Laptop with required software--> approx. $2,200 (first year only)
Health insurance for self --> approx 2,500-3000
Misc fees (clinic coats, parking, pager, etc) approx $1,000

16 positions available for 2007 class
No OEC scholarships (No OEC support for this program)
No GME

Approximate new patient starts: 55-65 with 20-30 transfers as well
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I would be VERY wary of the 55-60 starts. Is that a guarantee or a requirement? If they can support it, I guess they will keep chugging along, but I have heard that CO and UNLV were having trouble keeping their people busy, so they had to decrease their fees to ludicrous levels (ie they werent making any money on the cases). This is going to play out in a very interesting manner.
 
Jediwendell said:
... I have heard that CO and UNLV were having trouble keeping their people busy, so they had to decrease their fees to ludicrous levels...
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I'd hate to be an orthodontist in the greater Denver area.
 
Firm said:
I don't know about that. OEC wants there money back.
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Does this apply to the money they sunk into the schools (don't know how they would demand that money back). Also, longterm do you feel these programs will be viable?

I'm considering adding Colorado to my list as a late addition. While I'm definitely interested in Colorado now that OEC is out, do you think that the programs will suffer (fall apart?). I got the impression that you are a resident at an OEC school.
 
Wasn't the money for the school a donation? I wouldn't think Lazarra can get that money back easily. He can probably find a sleazy lawyer way to make the "scholarship" students repay for their education but to get the money back from the school may be difficult.

Now that there isn't an OEC affiliation with CU I may apply there too. Denver is a sweet town, but being in a program with 16 students may have some drawbacks.
 
kato999 said:
Wasn't the money for the school a donation? I wouldn't think Lazarra can get that money back easily. He can probably find a sleazy lawyer way to make the "scholarship" students repay for their education but to get the money back from the school may be difficult.

Now that there isn't an OEC affiliation with CU I may apply there too. Denver is a sweet town, but being in a program with 16 students may have some drawbacks.
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I would stay away from anything to do with OEC or any previously affiliated entities.
 
as someone just starting an orthodontic residency i can not explain how happy i am to see this company fall apart. i hope it continues. the dental profession as a whole should be happy to see this for profit educational system fall apart.
 
Firm said:
I don't know about that. OEC wants there money back.
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What money? They dont give you any money. They take money from your profits. What money is there for them to take? This is after the residency is over of course.
 
The scholarship is given in return for work after school. It's not really a true scholarship. Lazzara wants the money that he spent on the residents back (tuition & stipend, not the money donated to the schools). Since Lazzara can't afford to pay the salary of all the doctors, he has given them the opportunity to 1.)buy the offices, 2.)sell your services to some other company (ie. Sears, Coast) 3.) Pay back the money that was spent.

Colorado, and Jacksonville will be viable schools. UNLV is a different story, they have problems that are bigger than OEC. The school wasn't set up right. Colorado will have to charge $40,000, and Jacksonville $75,000, but you know the ortho wannabes will pay it.
 
Firm said:
UNLV is a different story, they have problems that are bigger than OEC. The school wasn't set up right.
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Can you elaborate on this? Just curious cause I go to UNLV. Not interested in the ortho program, just like to know what is going on :D
 
Firm said:
Colorado, and Jacksonville will be viable schools. UNLV is a different story, they have problems that are bigger than OEC. The school wasn't set up right.
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I dont understand what you mean by this. Whats your source?
 
Jediwendell said:
I have heard that CO and UNLV were having trouble keeping their people busy, so they had to decrease their fees to ludicrous levels (ie they werent making any money on the cases).
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This is absolutely not true at UNLV. Where is your source?
 
Firm said:
Colorado, and Jacksonville will be viable schools. UNLV is a different story, they have problems that are bigger than OEC. The school wasn't set up right. Colorado will have to charge $40,000, and Jacksonville $75,000, but you know the ortho wannabes will pay it.
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I just don't see how these residencies can support 16 residents a year without outside support. Heck, St. Louis has 14 and they don't start that many cases and St. Louis is bigger than Jacksonville and las Vegas and probably the same size as Denver (don't go look up census data, I'm talking metro). I think all three of the residencies will continue and do well, but I can see them eventually taking a more reasonable number, like 5to 10. The bummer is that I am sure that Lazzarra and Co. worked into the deal that the actual name on the loan for the clinic and equipment is the dental school, not OEC. That means that these places are going to be scrambling for ways to pay for that fancy clinic.

One thing I don't think these residencies really understand is that they will now desperately need the support of the outside community in these areas. They never had it before, and it will be tough to sustain if they are putting out 16 total residents a year. The crux of the matter is this: can a single attending faculty cover a 16 man clinic every day? Not well, and not up to usual education standards. The dental school will undercut the pay of some of the faculty and will run people off, so you will have less faculty. In turn, part timers will be forced to cover in larger numbers, something that may be difficult to achieve.
 
As a GP about a mile from the CU dental school, I looked into the ortho program as a possible place to refer. They charge $3200 for comprehensive tx on children, and $3300 for adults. Since orthodontists in this area charge anywhere from $3500-$5500, I wouldn't consider their fees ridiculous. The residents I've met have 50-55 starts, but they seem to still be accepting new patients. I imagine that after a while they will have to have their residents start fewer patients, as cases get passed down. Not sure what this will do to their bottom line, but from what I can see, right now their ortho program is making lots of money. With each resident having 50 patients at all times, there are 1600 patients being treated. With average tx time of 27 mo. that's about $190,000/mo or $2.275 million /year.

Assuming they can churn out patients in 27 mo. I don't see why this wouldn't be sustainable.
 
Geezer99 said:
As a GP about a mile from the CU dental school, I looked into the ortho program as a possible place to refer. They charge $3200 for comprehensive tx on children, and $3300 for adults. Since orthodontists in this area charge anywhere from $3500-$5500, I wouldn't consider their fees ridiculous. The residents I've met have 50-55 starts, but they seem to still be accepting new patients. I imagine that after a while they will have to have their residents start fewer patients, as cases get passed down. Not sure what this will do to their bottom line, but from what I can see, right now their ortho program is making lots of money. With each resident having 50 patients at all times, there are 1600 patients being treated. With average tx time of 27 mo. that's about $190,000/mo or $2.275 million /year.

Assuming they can churn out patients in 27 mo. I don't see why this wouldn't be sustainable.
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They treat a significant number of medical assistance patients at much lower than the 3K figure. plus at a clinic lacking supervising faculty they can't work very efficiently, and from what i've heard 27 mo ain't gonna cut it for finishing most of those 50 cases. factor in other costs of running a post grad ortho program and there you have it.
 
TKD said:
They treat a significant number of medical assistance patients at much lower than the 3K figure. plus at a clinic lacking supervising faculty they can't work very efficiently, and from what i've heard 27 mo ain't gonna cut it for finishing most of those 50 cases. factor in other costs of running a post grad ortho program and there you have it.
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Medicaid pays $2800 in CO for full treatment. I asked and the school said that their patient base is approx. 30% medicaid. 27 mo is a pretty conservative estimate, considering the majority of cases are probably class 1 crowding cases that take 10 mo. Of course some cases are going to take longer, but I haven't heard anything from the patients regarding inefficient clinics or excessive waiting times. Keep in mind that all of the residents are doctors, and probably do not need constant assistance from faculty.
 
I heard that the UNLV and the CO school were headed down the tubes and that the Jacksonville one was goint to remain open as a private school nonoec.... Is this true? I heard it from a faculty member at a southeastern orthodontic program.
 
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