Honest Questions

[PremedNoob]

I am curious as to why matriculating pod students have such low MCATs and how is it that some schools have so many scholarships vs most med/dental schools. I am sure I will get flamed, considering I have never taken the MCAT, but it just seems odd and makes me think of the recent discussion on here about podiatry schools scraping by for qualified students. I do agree most students don't know about podiatrists, but with so few schools it seems like a great opportunity to do something you like that isn't over-saturated (ahem, pharmacy).


My username isn't very accurate (made a while back), but I am primarily focusing on dentistry, but I am very interested in podiatry.

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[lyndamn]

I might get yelled at.... but my honest opinion and my theory is the following...

If admissions only wanted people with the MCAT and GPA averages of M.D. or D.O. schools, then their number of matriculants would significantly decrease and eventually podiatry would fade. Why? Well, if a student had excellent stats and got accepted to both MD/DO and DPM schools, the student would most likely choose the MD/DO route because it opens more doors to more opportunities (can specialize in anything, etc...) and less risk (residency issues, podiatrists aren't doctors issue, respect, etc...). If a person says they have passion for only feet and ankles, then they could also specialize in ankle/feet by going the M.D./D.O. route by becoming an orthopedic surgeon. It would be silly to deny that orthopedic surgeons are more well known than podiatrists and maybe more respected also (unfortunately). If someone offered you guaranteed positions as either an orthopedic surgeon or a podiatrist, which would would you rather choose?

I, however, think the average stats of matriculants to podiatric schools will gradually rise and the total number of applicants will slowly increase. It just takes time... and they just can't jump the gun right away. If you look at any healthcare profession, it took years for their stats to be at the numbers they are. I also believe that podiatrists will EVENTUALLY be as respected as M.D./D.O. It just takes time and advertisement. I believe dentistry was once in podiatry's position... but today, dentistry is pretty much at the same level (avg. stats increased from the past, and the physicians I have shadowed told me to go the dental route instead of the M.D./D.O. route because of the better lifestyle and potential income). This also applies to D.O. at one time. Many M.D.'s once said that D.O.'s are not doctors and blah blah blah, but that issue has gotten much better. I shadowed a team of doctors that consist of both M.D./D.O. a couple years ago and they are doing very well.

As for the scholarships..... scholarships are used to make the program more attractive and to reel students in because not many people want to become podiatrist as compared to M.D./D.O./D.D.S.
For instance, back when my mom was in college (this was yearsssss ago), nurses were in demand and there was a shortage. So, at the time, they offered programs for nursing with many benefits. Basically, my mom said they would take almost anyone. And the nursing school would be fully paid for as long as you work for a certain hospital for a certain amount of years. This is a similar concept.

 

[javajava]

I am curious as to why matriculating pod students have such low MCATs and how is it that some schools have so many scholarships vs most med/dental schools. I am sure I will get flamed, considering I have never taken the MCAT, but it just seems odd and makes me think of the recent discussion on here about podiatry schools scraping by for qualified students. I do agree most students don't know about podiatrists, but with so few schools it seems like a great opportunity to do something you like that isn't over-saturated (ahem, pharmacy).


My username isn't very accurate (made a while back), but I am primarily focusing on dentistry, but I am very interested in podiatry.

I would assume it has to do with popularity, although I believe the general trend is that all will increase just like dentistry and DO

 

[tiptoeing]

I would assume it has to do with popularity, although I believe the general trend is that all will increase just like dentistry and DO

100% agree javajava. Yes, podiatry average entering numbers as of right now is lower in comparison to other programs and popularity has something to do with it also. With the move to award P&S (physician and surgeon) certificate to Pod graduates from the california schools, those numbers will become more and more competitive...much like what happened to DO and DDS/DMD.

 

[PremedNoob]

But doesn't it make sense that with so few of pod schools that a shortage is possible? The little research I have done makes me believe that to those who need pod care (if there are "enough" patients)...there really aren't that many pods out there..at least in the largest city that I live next to (800,000 people). In my city alone, the ratio of pods to dentists is roughly 160:1400, that seems crazy.

Obviously shadowing and doing more research will give me a better insight, but is there enough procedures people really need to sustain a larger number of pods if there are increases in seats at schools or schools in general? I've read obviously about diabetic care and my own personal experience with a couple very in-grown nails, but are other profitable procedures common?

Again, just trying to learn a little more about the profession from hopefully some of the Pods or residents on this board.

 

[tiptoeing]

But doesn't it make sense that with so few of pod schools that a shortage is possible? The little research I have done makes me believe that to those who need pod care (if there are "enough" patients)...there really aren't that many pods out there..at least in the largest city that I live next to (800,000 people). In my city alone, the ratio of pods to dentists is roughly 160:1400, that seems crazy.

Obviously shadowing and doing more research will give me a better insight, but is there enough procedures people really need to sustain a larger number of pods if there are increases in seats at schools or schools in general? I've read obviously about diabetic care and my own personal experience with a couple very in-grown nails, but are other profitable procedures common?

Again, just trying to learn a little more about the profession from hopefully some of the Pods or residents on this board.

best suggestion i can give you is do more research and go shadow...nothing anyone will tell you either here or any other website will be comparable to what you will see and witness in a clinical setting

 

[DancerPod]

Something to consider: I will definitely admit that Pod entry standards are lower than the other schools, but they are rising. That being said, the numbers of those that actually graduate as DPMs are much higher. When I was interviewing, some of the schools had attrition as high as 20%. Pod schools take more people, but have MUCH higher rates of attrition because of it.
From what I understand, this is not that unusual. One of my friends is a practicing dentist. When he started at NYU they were accepting people with scores that they wouldn't even look at these days. They actually stretched his first year out to two years to ensure he'd pass. Nowadays that simply doesn't happen. Any of my friends that went for NYU were scrutinized pretty rigorously, if there was any doubt they wouldn't make it through, they never even started.
Pod school? I can only speak for my own, but they are much more willing to take the chance on you, I know some that came from places like Rutgers with a 3.7 and failed out in a semester, others came from state schools with a 3.0, had to take a "pre-course" program and get a minimum of 3.3 for the school to accept them, but are now entering their third year and holding down school officer positions. No one I know from the allopathic or dentistry schools know anyone like that.
I do think this is changing though. Every year we get more impressive applicants, every year the classes fill up sooner. I really think it is only a matter of time before the entry scores for Pod school is the same as the others.
There was a study done on this (entry numbers from allopathic vs. Pod graduates) that I read about 6 months ago. I've been searching like mad trying to find it. If anyone can, please link it, it was an interesting read.

 

[PremedNoob]

Thank you for the insight Dancer. It just baffles me still with so few of schools that there isn't a huge need for pods, especially when you factor in the attrition that you speak about at your school alone. If any pods are reading, do you feel like you compete with ortho ankle/foot docs? If there was strong competition, then it would make more sense that the need is less. Another thing to think about is since the profession is so un-popular or unknown of by students, I am assuming most pods are quite old (I am not basing this on any stats, so I guess thats completely wrong, but still).

The reason I talk about these things is that I see a big need for the field in the future (now?) and I can't wait to shadow some pods to get a better idea about some of these things.

Thanks everyone

 

[air bud]

Thank you for the insight Dancer. It just baffles me still with so few of schools that there isn't a huge need for pods, especially when you factor in the attrition that you speak about at your school alone. If any pods are reading, do you feel like you compete with ortho ankle/foot docs? If there was strong competition, then it would make more sense that the need is less. Another thing to think about is since the profession is so un-popular or unknown of by students, I am assuming most pods are quite old (I am not basing this on any stats, so I guess thats completely wrong, but still).

The reason I talk about these things is that I see a big need for the field in the future (now?) and I can't wait to shadow some pods to get a better idea about some of these things.

Thanks everyone

Shadow a lot first, then come to these forums and ask some of these questions. Make sure you shadow a few newer graduates, as well as some more established ones.

 

[AttackNME]

A lot of pods nowadays are starting to practice in groups alongside orthos, and I've heard from a lot of residents that they work alongside orthos rather than compete against them. What i've noticed also is that there are two different generations of pods, the old ones and the young ones. The old ones did a lot of debriding, nail procedures, and fabricate orthoses and a few did simple surgery. The young ones do a lot of complex surgery that include reconstructions and ex-fixes. Obviously there are old pods that do complicated procedures, but the trend is for us to all start doing it and getting really good at it. Podiatry is still rapidly evolving and I expect that by the time I come out and practice, students will be learning much more than I have learned as a student.

 

[PodSquad7]

The little research I have done makes me believe that to those who need pod care (if there are "enough" patients)...there really aren't that many pods out there..at least in the largest city that I live next to (800,000 people). In my city alone, the ratio of pods to dentists is roughly 160:1400, that seems crazy.

The reason there are so many more dentist than Podiatrist is simple. Take that 800,000 person city and assume everyone has decent insurance. To my knowledge most insurance policies cover two teeth cleanings a year and therefore you have 800,000 people needing a 20 minute basic tooth care twice a year. Ultimately, you will need a lot more dentist to cover the demand.

As for podiatrist, it all depends on how much hard work and dedication you want to put in. I have shadowed a new pod who just finished residency who only had 10 patients a day (needs to build his reputation and repeat clients) however the guy he works under sometimes has over 30 patients a day but also has 25 years of experience. Both are doing very well financially.

 

[PADPM]

The reason there are so many more dentist than Podiatrist is simple. Take that 800,000 person city and assume everyone has decent insurance. To my knowledge most insurance policies cover two teeth cleanings a year and therefore you have 800,000 people needing a 20 minute basic tooth care twice a year. Ultimately, you will need a lot more dentist to cover the demand.

As for podiatrist, it all depends on how much hard work and dedication you want to put in. I have shadowed a new pod who just finished residency who only had 10 patients a day (needs to build his reputation and repeat clients) however the guy he works under sometimes has over 30 patients a day but also has 25 years of experience. Both are doing very well financially.

As I've stated many times on this site, in addition to the number of patients seen daily, it depends on the type of patient being treated and the complexity of the problem. I treated 46 patients yesterday, and only saw about 7 "routine"/palliative patients. The remainder consisted of new patients, post op patients, pre op consults, injuries, infections, ulcerations, aches and pains, etc. Some of my partners can see above 70 patients daily, but on those days they are treating more "routine" patients. Our office is busier than it should be at times, and can get very hectic, but we do have a lot of assistants picking up the slack.

There is an opportunity to do very well in this profession, but I don't know of ANYONE in this profession who has done well and hasn't worked extremely hard. Each doctor in our practice, including the partners, works extremely hard and dedicates a lot of time to the practice.

I have one afternoon of "free time" off per week, and that's this afternoon. However, one of my partners called me that there's an emergency surgery that needs to get done and I'm the only one not scheduled to see patients in the office. So guess what? I don't whine, I don't tell my partners I have plans or it's my afternoon "off", I simply say "OK" and step up to the plate. And they do the same on a daily basis.

That is the formula that ALSO contributes to success. This isn't a part time job, and if you make it one, don't complain about not being successful.