Class of 2022...how you doin'?

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There’s a contact form that allows you to attach files so I did that even though they didn’t specify how to send anything…we’ll see if that works!
Whenever I email them, it takes them longer to get back to me than for my application process to be updated and tell me via automatic email. I think at one point I asked them if they received one of the things they needed and they emailed be over 6 weeks later.

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Whenever I email them, it takes them longer to get back to me than for my application process to be updated and tell me via automatic email. I think at one point I asked them if they received one of the things they needed and they emailed be over 6 weeks later.
Wow that doesn’t sound like the government at all 😂😂😂😂
 
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Internship schedule finally released!!
Starting on ER overnights solo 😂🥲

Scheduled to work on my wedding weekend too (travel destination)... *le sigh*
 
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So I know this probably won't sound great but honestly my mental health is at an all time low. I thought once I graduated and got a break that I would be happy but I'm not. I'm about to start my internship in a few weeks and I don't feel anything really. I'm not upset about it or scared or happy. I just feel apathetic. I'm worried in general that I'm feeling this way before a yearlong intensive undertaking. I'm talking about it with my therapist but what is there to talk about that's going to change it? I know how I'm feeling, I'm not in denial, I'm trying to do things that make me happy but I'm not happy. I just genuinely don't know what to do that I'm not already doing. Sorry to be a downer about this, this feels like it's supposed to be one of the happier times in our career but I feel worse now than I ever did on clinics.
 
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it's supposed to be one of the happier times in our career but I feel worse now than I ever did on clinics.
i hate the words "supposed to". i was supposed to be married at 25, have kids at 30, figure out what my career should be by 22. none of that happened. i'm ok with how things turned out, but i'd be really upset if i was still holding myself to this artificial "supposed to" standard that i don't even know where it came from. maybe just take it day by day for a while? let go of the idea of how you should be feeling, and just deal with what's in front of you?
 
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The start of internship has been great so far. I scored a unicorn of a roommate (living in a super nice place with one of the residents who I am already good friends with), and I'm really liking the city so far. My internmates seem like a great group of people and I quite like all of them. We even had some other people in the hospital mention that as a group we all seem very normal and easy to get along with so I don't think it is just me thinking that.

Really quite excited for the rest of internship. :)
 
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Work kicked my butt today. If I had one more tech it probably would've been really busy but fine. I didnt though so I had to sos my boss. It's not like I was triple booked or anything🤪

In reality my boss has been pretty great and this was really my first true sos call so not too bad I suppose.😅
 
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The start of internship has been great so far. I scored a unicorn of a roommate (living in a super nice place with one of the residents who I am already good friends with), and I'm really liking the city so far. My internmates seem like a great group of people and I quite like all of them. We even had some other people in the hospital mention that as a group we all seem very normal and easy to get along with so I don't think it is just me thinking that.

Really quite excited for the rest of internship. :)
It's a really decent group! You definitely lucked out cuz previous years there have been some DOOZIES
 
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Many of my classmates are complaining about the $100 licensing fee for illinois and I’m just sitting over here like 🥲 with my almost $500 in licensing. Gonna be a REAL SHOCKER for them when they are that $888 DEA price on top of that
 
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Many of my classmates are complaining about the $100 licensing fee for illinois and I’m just sitting over here like 🥲 with my almost $500 in licensing. Gonna be a REAL SHOCKER for them when they are that $888 DEA price on top of that
Suprised their practice isn't paying, all of my interviews said they would cover all...
 
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Suprised their practice isn't paying, all of my interviews said they would cover all...
For me, mine was paid for by corporate through my CE fund. Well, with it pro-rated to my start date, I had 1100ish. Didn't end up covering everything when it was all said and done between licensing and dues and such
 
Many of my classmates are complaining about the $100 licensing fee for illinois and I’m just sitting over here like 🥲 with my almost $500 in licensing. Gonna be a REAL SHOCKER for them when they are that $888 DEA price on top of that

Oh yeah, that hurt. Even though I knew I was going to be remibursed by work it still hurt. I wish it had only been a hundred.

And is why I waited to even apply for my DEA until I started work because then they just paid that directly.
 
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Many of my classmates are complaining about the $100 licensing fee for illinois and I’m just sitting over here like 🥲 with my almost $500 in licensing. Gonna be a REAL SHOCKER for them when they are that $888 DEA price on top of that
I was stoked to get my Illinois license because it was SO CHEAP compared to... I think everywhere??
 
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And it’s the gift that keeps on giving because you have your renewals too! Renewals in my previous states were like $150-250 every 2-3 years, but my current state is $280 annually just for the state license. Luckily my job covers it but it’s still not fun paying it.
 
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Do you have to have a dea or can you practice under an other doctor in MI?
@finnickthedog @SkiOtter

I've heard you can get away with not having one for certain in clinic uses but the details are unclear because work requires me to have one anyways and so I didn't really look into whether that is legitimate.

But as far as I know you wouldn't be able to write prescriptions for controlled substances without your own and I'd find that a hindrance.
 
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Finally having my first real shift as a vet tonight! What energy drinks does everyone enjoy that also seem to keep them moving?

I also decided I won't be pursuing ECC specialty (at least not for a long while) due to some life things... any advice on job searching and negotiations?
 
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negotiations
The worst they can say is no. I was easily given 10k more and a couple changes to the wording of my contract with no fights from the contracts team (corporate SA GP).

Do not accept negative accrual unless they have some sort of extra pay (I’ve seen 1.5x) for your PTO time to make up for any missed production so you aren’t affected by neg accrual for using your PTO (also don’t accept unpaid TO especially if they’re also negative accrual and it will affect your production taking your TO, which one recruiter I talked with that was the general policy at that corp. I believe that had been NVA? I know I’m December when I told them that I was not going to go with one of their clinics that I also told them I was not interested in neg accrual they said they are hoping to change it soon so it may have gotten changed).
 
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Finally having my first real shift as a vet tonight! What energy drinks does everyone enjoy that also seem to keep them moving?

I also decided I won't be pursuing ECC specialty (at least not for a long while) due to some life things... any advice on job searching and negotiations?
Good old coffee would be my go to if I needed to do an overnight. I'm not sure about your hospital, but our overnight docs are absolutely allowed to take short snoozes if there's nothing going on. I know that's not the case everywhere, but worth a check.

As someone looking into finding a full time er position, my big things will be salary, benefits, and production. I'm going to be asking for a minimum of 105k, 22+% production, and minimum 2.5k CE and 8 weeks mat leave (on top of the traditional benefits). Just know your priorities and ask for them. Like Ski said, the worst they can say is no and counter offer.
 
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I enjoy the mango flavored monster personally, or a nice chai tea latte. (If you're buying an iced latte, you can order it without ice. They'll fill the cup all the way to the top, and you basically scored two drinks for the price of one. You'll just need to BYO ice and cup to pour it into.)

Re: negotiations

Just ask for what you want and see what their top offer is. No one was insulted when I asked for more, and I leveraged different offers off each other.

Sometimes they can't say yes, especially for PTO or specific benefits like more maternity leave (sometimes their corporate leave scheme is what it is and they can't change it for specific people).

I did negotiate an extra $35,000 bonus for one of the offers I received though, and an extra $20,000 base pay for a different one. Essentially just by asking for it.

Doing multiple interviews gave me a better idea of what was being offered out there in the world, which helped me realize what was reasonable to ask for.
 
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Got my first job offer today. Followed by a second. And of course the practice I like the most is a 45-70 minute commute (depending on traffic)! :bang:
 
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I enjoy the mango flavored monster personally, or a nice chai tea latte. (If you're buying an iced latte, you can order it without ice. They'll fill the cup all the way to the top, and you basically scored two drinks for the price of one. You'll just need to BYO ice and cup to pour it into.)

Re: negotiations

Just ask for what you want and see what their top offer is. No one was insulted when I asked for more, and I leveraged different offers off each other.

Sometimes they can't say yes, especially for PTO or specific benefits like more maternity leave (sometimes their corporate leave scheme is what it is and they can't change it for specific people).

I did negotiate an extra $35,000 bonus for one of the offers I received though, and an extra $20,000 base pay for a different one. Essentially just by asking for it.

Doing multiple interviews gave me a better idea of what was being offered out there in the world, which helped me realize what was reasonable to ask for.
Did you end up going into private practice instead of the USDA?
 
Did you end up going into private practice instead of the USDA?
Nope, I am sticking with the federal government. Just wanted to see what my options were before I decided for sure. (There are some absurdly high bonuses out there if you're on the fence though.)
 
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Nope, I am sticking with the federal government. Just wanted to see what my options were before I decided for sure. (There are some absurdly high bonuses out there if you're on the fence though.)
We’ll see. Currently not super happy with them right now, so I will be considering private practice in a few years. I definitely want to consider all of my options. However, paying back the STW money does worry me. Congrats on the USDA position, and I hope you enjoy it!
 
Banfields 100k definitely enticed multiple of my classmates (though idk how it pays out and if it’s like 100k spread over a couple years as long as you stay)
Banfield contracts are 1-3 years, I think depending on how big you bonus is. The one I was offered with a very high bonus was 3 years. Most other places I talked to that were offering great bonuses also wanted at least 2 years (both corporate and privately owned).

They were all open to or had pro-rated pay back schemes (ie if you stayed for 50% of the contract, you got to keep 50% of the bonus). I basically said I wouldn't sign a contract if they didn't offer that.

Most were designed to be paid up front, but everybody I talked to was also open to having it be split into a yearly retention bonus instead. I wanted to hedge - even if I hated my life, I figured I could probably stick it out to the end of a contract year. That seemed better compared to trying to un-eff my taxes by having to pay back part of the bonus (especially a six figure bonus - oof).

Didn't take any of the offers anyway... but it's a crazy market out there man.
 
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Also, don’t forget that they withhold taxes on these huge bonuses, but if you have to pay it back, you have to pay back the entire pretax amount. At least in the few I’ve personally seen. So if you get a 100k signing bonus, you’ll get to take home 60k. But if your terms are to pay back 50% if you only stay a year, they’re gonna demand 50k back, not just half of what you took home (30k). (Edit: as discussed in the post below, this is talking about short term; you can amend your taxes and get it back eventually) You may be better off trying to negotiate a higher salary, more PTO, etc. if you think there’s a possibility you wouldn’t be staying the entire time.
 
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Also, don’t forget that they withhold taxes on these huge bonuses, but if you have to pay it back, you have to pay back the entire pretax amount. At least in the few I’ve personally seen. So if you get a 100k signing bonus, you’ll get to take home 60k. But if your terms are to pay back 50% if you only stay a year, they’re gonna demand 50k back, not just half of what you took home (30k). You may be better off trying to negotiate a higher salary, more PTO, etc. if you think there’s a possibility you wouldn’t be staying the entire time.
That tax money isn't gone forever though.

(Not sure if you were implying that or were just saying that it may be very hard to repay in the short term because of how most contracts are written, which is definely true. A lot of people seem to think they are on the hook for the taxes forever if they pay a bonus back, and that's not the case.)

Super disclaimer that I'm not a tax or legal professional, but to my understanding:

-if its the same tax year: the business can file amended paperwork with the IRS to get the taxes back themselves and then you just owe them the net amount they actually paid you.

-If they don't do that, you'll still get a tax refund for the overpayment once you file your taxes if it's the same tax year since your W2 will show your salary only and the amount of taxes you actually paid will be based on your salary + the bonus.

-If it's a year or two later, they can issue you a corrected W2 for the year you got your bonus to reflect your actual pay (ie no bonus received) so that you can amend your taxes and get a refund.

-Or they can just demand you pay back everything in full and then make you deal with the IRS yourself. You'll either have to file a deduction for the repayment or claim a tax credit for what you overpaid in the year you got your bonus if you want your money back.


In your example, if someone signed on for 100K and paid 40K on taxes, they netted 60K. If they only stick out 50% of the contract and owe the company 50K back, their net in pocket is 10K, but they massively overpaid their taxes the first year. The government can't keep all of that because it was taxes paid for 100K of income and they only actually got 50K of income. They'll either get a refund if they amend their previous tax return, or a massive 50K deduction on their current year tax return depending on the timing / what tax documents the company gives them. (All this assuming they didn't blow through their entire bonus and actually have enough cash to pay back what is needed.) They'll still net 30K in the end, it will just be a more convoluted process. (With some glossing over of FICA taxes, which are more complicated to recoup).

Companies are definitely going to try to make you pay them back in full immediately and I think thats how most contracts are written? But I think it's reasonable to try to negotiate better repayment terms that are in your favor - ie making their company deal with the IRS to recoup taxes if it's the same tax year, or forcing them to give you an amended W2 and a repayment plan that accounts for the fact that you're going to have to re-do your taxes and wait on a refund from the IRS.

I never got that far in negotiations because I decided to stick with my government job, but I think it's worth asking for as part of contract negotiations. I did tell clinics I would need enough time to consult a tax/contract lawyer before signing anything.

That's also why I asked clinics about dividing the bonuses over the course of the contract into more of a yearly retention bonus situation instead of a true sign on bonus. Ideally I wanted to try to force the company to recoup taxes from the IRS and not from me if I signed with them and left my contract early. Or at the very least, to be dealing with smaller payback amounts that were more feasible to repay if I was going to have to pay them back immediately and then deal with the IRS myself later / wait on a refund.

I don't disagree that you shouldn't sign a contract if you know you won't stay for the whole thing, but no one should feel trapped by the taxes on their bonus if they are miserable or had a life event that makes them want to leave. Or to be afraid of signing on for a really good bonus because they aren't 100% sure they'll be there 3 years later. There are ways you can protect yourself from the tax headaches / unreasonable repayment plans that can come with a bonus tied to a multi-year contract, but it seems like most people don't try to negotiate for them.

Negotiating a higher salary instead is certainly a consideration, but if your production doesn't kick in until you've earned your keep through your base you're probably leaving money on the table compared to a bonus.

I also asked what would happen with my bonus if I died suddenly or became disabled and couldn't fulfill the contract - absolutely didn't want claims being leveled against my estate if i got hit by a bus or something.
 
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Yeah, I just meant short term when you’re trying to leave and may not have that much money available as cash and they’re demanding you repay it right then…from the couple people I know who have done it by that point everyone is upset on all sides so it’s a rough situation all around. But your more extended reply is wonderful at explaining the whole thing and very informational for people. Amended tax returns suck but that’s what a CPA/tax professional can help with.
 
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That article going around on fb about how short vet med is just reminds me the impending chaos if I end up staying at this job long term or even if I leave. My clinic has the only vets for ~150mi that wont be retiring and closing its door that sees small animals and one of 2 clinics that sees large animal. We are also currently the only clinic that still does any sort of on call for smalls (nearest er is a 160mi or 3hr drive)...but I think that's probably going to change considering my boss is going to be out for 8+ weeks soon and it's not feasible for me to be on call all the time and working full time, plus ya know life.

Not sure what will happen but somethings gotta give...
Hope everyone else is surving the storm.
 
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Not sure what will happen but somethings gotta give...
Hope everyone else is surving the storm.

My hospital has lost 4 support staff and a doctor since I went on maternity leave on June 1. We have 2 docs that are with us temporarily (1 leaving in about 12-16 months to start his own practice in the north metro area and the other leaving for out of state when her husband is ready), and I have a strong suspicion another doctor will leave after her maternity leave is over (she starts mid-September). The other 2021 grad is actively looking for a new job. I plan to leave when I find a FT ER job closer to home (30 mile 1-way drive through the metro area not great when you have a baby I've realized). I have begun to study more behavior stuff in order to start offering that since I don't know how long finding the ideal job will take.

I have no idea what my hospital is doing to try to mitigate things. Whatever it is, really isn't working since we have been essentially hemorrhaging support staff and doctors. It's sad cause the hospital and staff are overall relatively great.
 
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