Chapter 31 "Qualifying for Voc-Rehab" Journey

[BC_89]

We have a lot of great feedback concerning those using and qualifying for Chapter 31 VR&E Benefits over the past few years on some of our existing threads. I thought I would start a new one to gauge specifically towards the slight changes on Chapter 31 and overcoming Voc-Rehab Counselors (VRC's) along our journey. Questions are still welcomed as how to extend or qualify to earn or maintain these benefits.

I'll start with my updated outline thus far from the transition of Active Duty Service to Veteran Status and try to report my own updates of my success or downfall of gaining Chapter 31 Benefits by the time my professional program in pharmacy starts August 13th of 2019:

**Medical Evaluation Board Phase** (MEB) Initiation: September 21st 2018 (Treatments and Building case since May 2017 - March 2018).

**Informal/Formal Physical Evaluation Board Phase** (PEB Exam): October 4th - 5th 2018

**Formal Physical Evaluation Board Preliminary Rating** (FPEB): October 31st 2018

**DOD / VA Final Rating**: December 3rd 2018 (70% DOD / 80% VA --> bumped later to 100%)

**Final Orders**: December 12th 2018 (Separation Date February 25th 2019)

**VRC State of Texas Assigned**: October 10th 2018

**VRC State of Texas Rejection of Chapter 31**: November 14th 2018

Reason: B.S. Biochemistry and will not approve a Professional Doctorate Program as entry level employment

Currently on permissive leave and have appointment with new VRC in Kansas December 21st and will download my info on e-benefits while under the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) until I'm considered a service connected disabled vet on February 26th 2019.

Goal: Prove SEH by showing my disabilities keeping me from gaining “degree related” employment while maintaining doctor appointments in new state with my acceptance letter in hand for School of Pharmacy.

I will update my progression as time goes. Others feel free to report your journey or questions when it comes to Chapter 31. If you were successful, please let us know what part of your process helped you the most. The more stories and questions we can build, the better off we all can be while applying for this entitlement.

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[Teepster87]

I'm currently utilizing VocRehab for the remainder of veterinary school. The process took a long time, and when I initially applied I remember checking a box saying that I would be moving within 6 months (IIRC) that led to no one contacting me. Once I was set up at school I reapplied and waited awhile longer for an appointment. Ended up using my remaining 15 days of the Post 9/11 GI Bill I had remaining from undergrad during 1st year, which may have been a mistake, since I no longer rate the higher BAH rate that the GI Bill has.

I went in for my initial appointment with only a 10% VA rating, but had a new claim in for a lot of things I previously hand 0% ratings for. Went over my career assessment thing that I was asked to do, and my resume with the counselor. Laid out my post military work experience in the veterinary field and SPECIFICALLY state how each of my disabilities impacted my ability to maintain working in the field at that level. I was already attending veterinary school at the time, and I think that her final decision a bit easier. She told me how much of a hassle getting vets lined up for GRE/GMAT/etc tests are and having them applying for professional schools. The main thing of that meeting was laying out how my varies issues created problems gaining and maintaining employment. This is primarily a program for employment, and it's not pushing for education. I stated my case that as a veterinarian I'd have much more control over what I'm doing in the day to day job activities and would be able to tailor that to best fit what I needed.

Even with only 10% I was found to have a SEH, and was granted another 12 months of benefits. I believe there's some cap (legally?) of 48 months of total education benefits to receive between this program and the GI Bill. Once I had some transcripts in showing my ability to handle school my counselor put in a waiver for an extension for me that will cover me until graduation.

 

[BC_89]

I'm currently utilizing VocRehab for the remainder of veterinary school. The process took a long time, and when I initially applied I remember checking a box saying that I would be moving within 6 months (IIRC) that led to no one contacting me. Once I was set up at school I reapplied and waited awhile longer for an appointment. Ended up using my remaining 15 days of the Post 9/11 GI Bill I had remaining from undergrad during 1st year, which may have been a mistake, since I no longer rate the higher BAH rate that the GI Bill has.

I went in for my initial appointment with only a 10% VA rating, but had a new claim in for a lot of things I previously hand 0% ratings for. Went over my career assessment thing that I was asked to do, and my resume with the counselor. Laid out my post military work experience in the veterinary field and SPECIFICALLY state how each of my disabilities impacted my ability to maintain working in the field at that level. I was already attending veterinary school at the time, and I think that her final decision a bit easier. She told me how much of a hassle getting vets lined up for GRE/GMAT/etc tests are and having them applying for professional schools. The main thing of that meeting was laying out how my varies issues created problems gaining and maintaining employment. This is primarily a program for employment, and it's not pushing for education. I stated my case that as a veterinarian I'd have much more control over what I'm doing in the day to day job activities and would be able to tailor that to best fit what I needed.

Even with only 10% I was found to have a SEH, and was granted another 12 months of benefits. I believe there's some cap (legally?) of 48 months of total education benefits to receive between this program and the GI Bill. Once I had some transcripts in showing my ability to handle school my counselor put in a waiver for an extension for me that will cover me until graduation.

That's great they gave you the extension!

It may seem confusing to most, but truth is their is no cap when opting into Chapter 31 VR&E from Chapter 33. So long as you have one day left of post 9-11 gi bill, you can actually utilize the BAH rating from post 9-11 and apply it to Chapter 31. Majority of VRC's wont mention it since most still believe this cannot happen (back in 2015 there was a cap with Chapter 33 and 31 not to exceed 48 months but that got changed---Not to be confused with the cap from Chapter 30 to Chapter 33 that still exists).

If you don't mind sharing, how were you able to explain the difference of being a tech and a veterinarian in terms of your disability not getting exasperated? I find myself in the same situation from being a pharmacy tech in the army and now accepted to pharmacy school. I have a 80% rating and finding it more difficult than usual to explain how my role as a pharmacist would not be a burden to my disabilities although being a tech would. To be fair though, my disabilities include degenerative disc, spurred ankles exasperated (thanks to rucking and air assault) and PTSD.

A great VRC makes all the difference and I'm glad you had the opportunity to present your case with an accepted letter in hand. As you said, that really does put leverage on the counselor due to the high investment to put someone through professional schooling (especially if the individual has no actual acceptance yet).

 

[esob]

That's great they gave you the extension!

It may seem confusing to most, but truth is their is no cap when opting into Chapter 31 VR&E from Chapter 33. So long as you have one day left of post 9-11 gi bill, you can actually utilize the BAH rating from post 9-11 and apply it to Chapter 31. Majority of VRC's wont mention it since most still believe this cannot happen (back in 2015 there was a cap with Chapter 33 and 31 not to exceed 48 months but that got changed---Not to be confused with the cap from Chapter 30 to Chapter 33 that still exists).

If you don't mind sharing, how were you able to explain the difference of being a tech and a veterinarian in terms of your disability not getting exasperated? I find myself in the same situation from being a pharmacy tech in the army and now accepted to pharmacy school. I have a 80% rating and finding it more difficult than usual to explain how my role as a pharmacist would not be a burden to my disabilities although being a tech would. To be fair though, my disabilities include degenerative disc, spurred ankles exasperated (thanks to rucking and air assault) and PTSD.

A great VRC makes all the difference and I'm glad you had the opportunity to present your case with an accepted letter in hand. As you said, that really does put leverage on the counselor due to the high investment to put someone through professional schooling (especially if the individual has no actual acceptance yet).

There are a couple of "standard" arguments that I have seen other vets (including myself) use when justifying the higher level position. These arguments actually stem from Ch 38 of the CFR, but are referenced in the Ch 31 code. Specifically, subsection 21.51 states that an employment handicap (as well as an SEH) is implied when the veteran lacks the ability to prepare for, obtain, or keep employment in an occupation consistent with his or her abilities, aptitudes, and interests. (38 CFR 21.51 - Determining employment handicap.) This wording also shows up again when referencing an SEH in 21.52. The takeaway from this is that if being a pharm tech (or a PA, etc) is not consistent with the veteran's interest, then an IWRP could not be written for that job because it would undermine the goal of the program (which is to overcome the vocational impairment, and a lack of interest in a goal would thus imply the impairment was not overcome). This is the reason that the idea of "entry level employment" doesn't mean they can just get you a job at a Chevron station and call it a day.

The TL;DR is that technically if you are not interested in being a pharm tech but are interested in being a pharmacist (for whatever reason, sheer curiosity, prestige, money, etc), then it creates a qualifying exception. This argument usually comes with the caveat that you need to put forth a valid reason "why" you are not interested and that reason needs to be believable. The easiest way to present this for the healthcare field is to express an interest in both academic and clinical medicine. The one degree that would allow you to work as a clinician and a faculty member at a school would be the terminal degree, and you almost assuredly could not due this as a tech.

The second argument in the terminal degree centers on the idea that your SCD's are likely to worsen over time. Achieving the terminal degree while you are still healthy enough to do so, allows the veteran to fall-back to a reduced work schedule in the event that their SCD's preclude full-time employment, without reducing the veteran's income to a point where they can no longer actually make a living. That is, you can work as a part-time as a pharmacist or a "mommy track" as a physician and still make a house payment and provide for your family. This second argument actually even works from the start, noting that some veterans may never be able to work full time given their SCD's, but that with the terminal degree they could be self-supporting by working part-time due to the level of pay provided with the terminal degree.

Another take on this is the demand placed on terminal degree holders. Terminal degree holders in most health care professions are more often in a favorable position to obtain employment under terms that include reasonable accommodations for their SCD's. Part of this is due to the higher degree of autonomy given to those at the top of the food chain and part of it just supply and demand.

There are lots of other valid points to make in this argument but the main thing is to make the argument and point to the CFR. If you make the argument that pharmacist is better than pharm tech because of the CFR, you put your VRC in a position where they now have to demonstrate how it is not in-line with the CFR and also force them to realize that you have done your due diligence and aren't just seeking a pie-in-the-sky dream.

 

[BC_89]

There are a couple of "standard" arguments that I have seen other vets (including myself) use when justifying the higher level position. These arguments actually stem from Ch 38 of the CFR, but are referenced in the Ch 31 code. Specifically, subsection 21.51 states that an employment handicap (as well as an SEH) is implied when the veteran lacks the ability to prepare for, obtain, or keep employment in an occupation consistent with his or her abilities, aptitudes, and interests. (38 CFR 21.51 - Determining employment handicap.) This wording also shows up again when referencing an SEH in 21.52. The takeaway from this is that if being a pharm tech (or a PA, etc) is not consistent with the veteran's interest, then an IWRP could not be written for that job because it would undermine the goal of the program (which is to overcome the vocational impairment, and a lack of interest in a goal would thus imply the impairment was not overcome). This is the reason that the idea of "entry level employment" doesn't mean they can just get you a job at a Chevron station and call it a day.

The TL;DR is that technically if you are not interested in being a pharm tech but are interested in being a pharmacist (for whatever reason, sheer curiosity, prestige, money, etc), then it creates a qualifying exception. This argument usually comes with the caveat that you need to put forth a valid reason "why" you are not interested and that reason needs to be believable. The easiest way to present this for the healthcare field is to express an interest in both academic and clinical medicine. The one degree that would allow you to work as a clinician and a faculty member at a school would be the terminal degree, and you almost assuredly could not due this as a tech.

The second argument in the terminal degree centers on the idea that your SCD's are likely to worsen over time. Achieving the terminal degree while you are still healthy enough to do so, allows the veteran to fall-back to a reduced work schedule in the event that their SCD's preclude full-time employment, without reducing the veteran's income to a point where they can no longer actually make a living. That is, you can work as a part-time as a pharmacist or a "mommy track" as a physician and still make a house payment and provide for your family. This second argument actually even works from the start, noting that some veterans may never be able to work full time given their SCD's, but that with the terminal degree they could be self-supporting by working part-time due to the level of pay provided with the terminal degree.

Another take on this is the demand placed on terminal degree holders. Terminal degree holders in most health care professions are more often in a favorable position to obtain employment under terms that include reasonable accommodations for their SCD's. Part of this is due to the higher degree of autonomy given to those at the top of the food chain and part of it just supply and demand.

There are lots of other valid points to make in this argument but the main thing is to make the argument and point to the CFR. If you make the argument that pharmacist is better than pharm tech because of the CFR, you put your VRC in a position where they now have to demonstrate how it is not in-line with the CFR and also force them to realize that you have done your due diligence and aren't just seeking a pie-in-the-sky dream.

Great Info!

Once I get my DD-214 I will scan 50 copies and staple the 38 CFR 21.51 outline on the back of 49 of them (lol) along with my acceptance letter and official transcripts for my new-to-be Voc-Rehab Counselor (VRC).

Let me outline the consensus here then I'll lay a question on a contingency I may/may not do.

1) Show up professionally dressed.

2) Explain that due to my 80% disability rating, I am interested to pursue entry level employment that correlates with my "abilities" and "interests" as a Doctorate of Pharmacy holder (PharmD) that otherwise I would not be able to obtain as a CPhT (Certified Pharmacist Technician) certificate holder. I would state the following two factors:

a) Fulfill my interests and focusing my abilities on a PharmD degree in order to have the opportunity to work in both academic and clinical medicine that I otherwise could not possibly do with my current certificate.

b) With the worsening of my service-connected-disabilities (SCDs), I could obtain a PharmD that would alott me the self-supporting income should I have to drop to a part-time level of pay that would still sustain the essential items I need to provide for myself and family (ie mortgage, food, clothing, utility bills, etc).

3) Upon hearing / answering fundamental questions with my VRC, I present my acceptance letter, official transcripts, and copy of subsection 38 CFR 21.51 as referenced in Chapter 31 Benefits outline:

38 CFR 21.51 - Determining employment handicap.

4) In addition, outline Chapter 8 - 8.2 of the Individualized Written Rehabilitation Plan (IWRP) showing how no cause of action can take place due to my outlined abilities and interests defined in the 38 CFR:

Chapter 8: Individualized Written Rehabilitation Plan (IWRP)

Here's another question:

I am placed under the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA - not sure what that means other than I'm currently Active Duty) since I will soon be on terminal leave but not officially a disabled veteran until 26 Feb 2019. Would it be wiser for me to set up an appointment with my new VRC after 26th of February once I'm declared a veteran or make early preparations albeit I may not show up in the system until I have officially left the service?

I go on terminal leave on the 18th of Jan and plan on making an appointment in the new state. At this point its all about timing.

 

[esob]

Great Info!

Once I get my DD-214 I will scan 50 copies and staple the 38 CFR 21.51 outline on the back of 49 of them (lol) along with my acceptance letter and official transcripts for my new-to-be Voc-Rehab Counselor (VRC).

Let me outline the consensus here then I'll lay a question on a contingency I may/may not do.

1) Show up professionally dressed.

2) Explain that due to my 80% disability rating, I am interested to pursue entry level employment that correlates with my "abilities" and "interests" as a Doctorate of Pharmacy holder (PharmD) that otherwise I would not be able to obtain as a CPhT (Certified Pharmacist Technician) certificate holder. I would state the following two factors:

a) Fulfill my interests and focusing my abilities on a PharmD degree in order to have the opportunity to work in both academic and clinical medicine that I otherwise could not possibly do with my current certificate.

b) With the worsening of my service-connected-disabilities (SCDs), I could obtain a PharmD that would alott me the self-supporting income should I have to drop to a part-time level of pay that would still sustain the essential items I need to provide for myself and family (ie mortgage, food, clothing, utility bills, etc).

3) Upon hearing / answering fundamental questions with my VRC, I present my acceptance letter, official transcripts, and copy of subsection 38 CFR 21.51 as referenced in Chapter 31 Benefits outline:

38 CFR 21.51 - Determining employment handicap.

4) In addition, outline Chapter 8 - 8.2 of the Individualized Written Rehabilitation Plan (IWRP) showing how no cause of action can take place due to my outlined abilities and interests defined in the 38 CFR:

Chapter 8: Individualized Written Rehabilitation Plan (IWRP)

Here's another question:

I am placed under the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA - not sure what that means other than I'm currently Active Duty) since I will soon be on terminal leave but not officially a disabled veteran until 26 Feb 2019. Would it be wiser for me to set up an appointment with my new VRC after 26th of February once I'm declared a veteran or make early preparations albeit I may not show up in the system until I have officially left the service?

I go on terminal leave on the 18th of Jan and plan on making an appointment in the new state. At this point its all about timing.

This sounds like a good plan. As far as waiting, I just saw my VRC a couple weeks ago and they have a screen in their system that tells them your combined rating, individual ratings, and what you SCD's are. In theory, they need this information to ensure that whatever IWRP they write is in line with the veteran's "abilities". So, the million dollar question will be whether or not you will be in the system until your official date. Have you signed into eBenefits yet, and if so, does it show your SCD's and ratings there? If so, I would think the VRC would have the info as well since I'm pretty sure the systems are centrally linked.

 

[BC_89]

Update:

***January 17th 2019***: Received official DD-214 documentation (Both the Member #1 and #4 outline) proclaiming : Honorary Medical Retirement

***January 18th 2019***: Began Transition (Terminal) Leave and have moved from the Southern Texas region to the midwest district (KS/OK/MO).

Albeit my 80% service connected disability rating has been finalized, nothing is reflected on my e-benefits portal. This could be due on two factors: I am not officially a disabled veteran until February 26th 2019, and my compensation payment has not been established (usually ~2 months after leaving service). In the meantime, I plan on scheduling an appointment by end of february / early march with a new VR&E counselor and starting my process yet again rather than appeal.

Once my e-benefits portal is updated, I once again plan on providing acceptance letter to Pharmacy School for August 2019, copies of my notarized disability rating(s) in case it has yet to reflect on the VA portal website, and copy of CFR 21.51 subsection defining the qualifications for Chapter 31 benefits 38 CFR 21.51 - Determining employment handicap.

As a reminder, I do qualify for 100% Post 9/11 benefits and have never touched any entitlements (earned my bachelors without outside assistance excluding typical scholarships I qualified for unrelated to chapter entitlements). Update will be established when appointment and meeting results have taken place.

 

[usmcDDog]

Just got denied for voc rehab today. I’m 50% disabled and will be starting OMS3 this summer. Anyone been denied and successfully appealed? I was denied because I have a bachelors degree and they could get me employment ASAP if I quit school. This doesn’t seem right.

 

[BC_89]

Just got denied for voc rehab today. I’m 50% disabled and will be starting OMS3 this summer. Anyone been denied and successfully appealed? I was denied because I have a bachelors degree and they could get me employment ASAP if I quit school. This doesn’t seem right.

That’s exactly what they told me. I’m still waiting for my ebenefits portal to reflect my finalized 80% rating (still on terminal leave) to see what my new VRC will have to say.

It seems proving an SEH despite getting a job (not related to your interests as outlined in Title 30 CFR 21.51) is either not established, or most counselors throw the red flag to every bachelors they see on a resume...

How did you validate a severe handicap?

 

[usmcDDog]

That’s exactly what they told me. I’m still waiting for my ebenefits portal to reflect my finalized 80% rating (still on terminal leave) to see what my new VRC will have to say.

It seems proving an SEH despite getting a job (not related to your interests as outlined in Title 30 CFR 21.51) is either not established, or most counselors throw the red flag to every bachelors they see on a resume...

How did you validate a severe handicap?

Oh she wouldn’t even talk about my disabilities. She just basically said my bachelors disqualified me, which after some cursory research, it most definitely does not disqualify anyone automatically.

My quickest rout to gainful employment is finishing med school and not dropping out to go work for Arkansas wildlife and fisheries dept. I’m two months out from dedicated usmle prep, I’m totally going to drop out to go tromp around Arkansas with two bad knees doing wildlife management...
It’s a good career field for sure, and I’m not knocking it, just not feasible for me, or after sinking 2 years into med school...

 

[BC_89]

Then she’s wrong. Most have been integrated to think a Bachelors is a disqualifying factor when (according to Title 30 of you “abilities” and “interests”) in fact, it’s the opposite.

I’ve posted this elsewhere, but here’s what I’d do and it’s not an appealment:

1) Request to switch your VRC (Voc-Rehab Counselor). Even if it means doing a phone or Skype session (which is mandated upon request if over 50 miles to appointment location).

2) Call your Congress Representative with subsection titles and CFR codes that establish your qualifications. They will quickly be up to speed on Chapter 31 Benefits and be able to force upper hands when need be. Provide signed paperwork as to why you were denied coupled with your other school documents / transcripts.

An acceptance goes a long way, but I believe an appealment will only waste time...Many others (including past counselors I’ve personally spoken with) will strongly recommend you be provided a new counselor.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Oh she wouldn’t even talk about my disabilities. She just basically said my bachelors disqualified me, which after some cursory research, it most definitely does not disqualify anyone automatically.

My quickest rout to gainful employment is finishing med school and not dropping out to go work for Arkansas wildlife and fisheries dept. I’m two months out from dedicated usmle prep, I’m totally going to drop out to go tromp around Arkansas with two bad knees doing wildlife management...
It’s a good career field for sure, and I’m not knocking it, just not feasible for me, or after sinking 2 years into med school...

FWIW, I'm in med school on VRE due to have two bad knees. I've also seen people get approved for med school (and other grad and professional schools) after already having a bachelors at time of appointment. Your counselor is downright lying.

 

[usmcDDog]

FWIW, I'm in med school on VRE due to have two bad knees. I've also seen people get approved for med school (and other grad and professional schools) after already having a bachelors at time of appointment. Your counselor is downright lying.

It is just frustrating because she wouldn’t even consider anything I had to say. What is my recourse then? Do I have to wait for the letter from the VA outlining the denial? Could anyone provide their VR counselors contact info that approved them and see what someone else says?

 

[BC_89]

This is why I’ve argued in times past that a veteran can be a “Wal-Mart Welcomer Associate” with VRCs logic of job placement...

This is why the CFRs and subsection codes are in place: To meet your abilities and interests. Be diligent and polite, but stand your ground that your disability will keep you from Persueing their job entry placements.

I too have seen many use Chapter 31 after a bachelors for law, medical, and dental school..

 

[BC_89]

What is my recourse then? Do I have to wait for the letter from the VA outlining the denial?

You do not have to wait for the letter. I would insist on finding the next closest counselor as well as look up who your representative would be in your district as a disabled vet.

For further assistance without taking $ out of pocket, look into the Chapter 31 Disabilty Voc-Rehab facebook page (occasional trolls lurk there but a lot of veterans who have similar situations as yourself get good tips). The founder is an attorney who puts out helpful tips every now and then to get you started.

 

[esob]

I posted the link in another thread the other day with actual numbers from the VA, but the long and short of it was that ~ 15% of those using the program are using it for postgraduate level work. If almost 1 in 5 vets is doing it, your VRC is just really, really, really bad at knowing what is going on.

Edit: Here is the official document from the VA that shows what types of education are being paid for by the program

https://www.benefits.va.gov/REPORTS/abr/docs/FY17-Vocational-Rehabilitation.pdf

 

[usmcDDog]

You do not have to wait for the letter. I would insist on finding the next closest counselor as well as look up who your representative would be in your district as a disabled vet.

For further assistance without taking $ out of pocket, look into the Chapter 31 Disabilty Voc-Rehab facebook page (occasional trolls lurk there but a lot of veterans who have similar situations as yourself get good tips). The founder is an attorney who puts out helpful tips every now and then to get you started.

Do I have to go through my current counselor to find another one? How does this work if she has already denied the claim?

 

[BC_89]

Do I have to go through my current counselor to find another one? How does this work if she has already denied the claim?

You can go to their supervisor to request it. If she closes you out and you don’t appeal, it’s as if your “let go” to scramble to find another VRC

 

[esob]

I found out today that I am going to have to switch counselors when I start school too, but my current VRC is going to write up everything in stone for me so the new vrc will either be forced to accept my plan or they will kick it back to my current VRC and I will simply have to come back and have a face to face with her once a year. That will be a little bit of a pain if it goes that way, but still well worth having everything paid for.

 

[MusicDOc124]

I found out today that I am going to have to switch counselors when I start school too, but my current VRC is going to write up everything in stone for me so the new vrc will either be forced to accept my plan or they will kick it back to my current VRC and I will simply have to come back and have a face to face with her once a year. That will be a little bit of a pain if it goes that way, but still well worth having everything paid for.

Congrats!

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Do I have to go through my current counselor to find another one? How does this work if she has already denied the claim?

Document everything via email. Give her 4 weeks to unscrew herself and get things right if you haven't already.

If she's a lost cause, ask her to give you a new Voc Rehab counselor or elevate this situation to a higher chain of command.

If you have time, I personally would build a relationship with a physician and have him vouch for you about how your disabilities are preventing you from doing whatever the hell that she has in mind.

Keep knocking her bs back at her. Be perseverant bc when you're finally accepted, back payment in term of BAH and school tuition will be traced back to the original date of your application.

 

[BC_89]

Update:

**February 26th 2019:** Officially a disabled veteran separated from the Army as an E-5...

E-Benefits portal has acted up for me so faxed and electronically sent my DD-214 (member 4) to an Education representative to update my Chapter 33 Benefits to include BAH at the E-5 w/ dependents rate. Only using them until the VA disability portal on my profile reflects my rating. I can’t hit that Vocational Rehab submission until DEERS updates my veteran status (and tricare retroactively covers me).

Although normally I could submit since I’m done with IDES stage of transition, I’m gonna play it safe and wait for my pending status to say complete....Hopefully in the next 30-40 days I’ll submit and prep for my “second” first interview with a new VRC.

 

[esob]

Update:

**February 26th 2019:** Officially a disabled veteran separated from the Army as an E-5...

E-Benefits portal has acted up for me so faxed and electronically sent my DD-214 (member 4) to an Education representative to update my Chapter 33 Benefits to include BAH at the E-5 w/ dependents rate. Only using them until the VA disability portal on my profile reflects my rating. I can’t hit that Vocational Rehab submission until DEERS updates my veteran status (and tricare retroactively covers me).

Although normally I could submit since I’m done with IDES stage of transition, I’m gonna play it safe and wait for my pending status to say complete....Hopefully in the next 30-40 days I’ll submit and prep for my “second” first interview with a new VRC.

Nice, now you gotta get those DV plates so you can quit paying vehicle registration fees

 

[Teepster87]

Just got denied for voc rehab today. I’m 50% disabled and will be starting OMS3 this summer. Anyone been denied and successfully appealed? I was denied because I have a bachelors degree and they could get me employment ASAP if I quit school. This doesn’t seem right.

Vocrehab is an employment program, but as far as I know it's not a "take the first available job" program. They're supposed to get you prepared for work as an entry level _______. I'd highlight your previous experiences, and how they aggrevated or worsened your service connected disabilities.

I used the assessment test they made me take initially to point me specifically toward veterinary medicine. Then talked about how the different positions I'd had post-military while gaining experience aggrevated my disabilities, and told them that by being a veterinarian I'd have more control over my work requirements and be able to tailor them to fit my needs.

I would definitely be appealing their decision whenever you receive it. You're not trying to be in wildlife management, you want to be a physician.

 

[esob]

Ask for a new VRC or supervisor review before filing an actual appeal; they can take literally years to process.

 

[vet_doc92]

Good read! I'll be taking this for my own use too, as I'm hoping to get Voc Rehab to cover my pharmacy program. I still have GI Bill left, but maybe I'll reach out once I know i'm accepted... or at least get the interview. Waiting on PharmCAS now.

When I retired out, my Terminal Leave ended 11/19/16 and I got paid my first month of benefits in January. I forwarded my DD-214 via my VA Rep at the office on post, and that's what kicked it off for me, otherwise it takes longer for them to review your claims in veteran status.

 

[BC_89]

Update:

Although now getting my military pension until my VA back-pay retroactively kicks in, I found out when getting my blue retirement card I’m under TDRL rather than permanent status...

Wondering if this will put a damper in my provision of proving job employability. I’m gonna do follow up appointments for two months to validate my ability to be employed while still meeting my SEH for pharmacy. May be tricky but I’m covering any small loop holes while waiting for my ebenefits portal to update my rating...

 

[esob]

TDRL sucks, hopefully, you only have to make one follow-up before they put you on PDRL. I was on TDRL for like 2 years before they changed my status, but I think they could keep you on it for up to 5 years. I used to have to travel from TX to WRAMC for follow up's, lol.

 

[vet_doc92]

Bummer. I was so glad to get PDRL. Check out PEBForum for some info there on the TDRL/PDRL help if you need some insight.

 

[BC_89]

TDRL sucks, hopefully, you only have to make one follow-up before they put you on PDRL. I was on TDRL for like 2 years before they changed my status, but I think they could keep you on it for up to 5 years. I used to have to travel from TX to WRAMC for follow up's, lol.

I heard they were making adjustments from 5 years to 3, but apparently it’s not finalized:

https://wct.army.mil/modules/soldier/s6-tdrl.html#HOWLONG

I received a letter telling me my first follow up examination is in August but have not told me a specific day...Nonetheless once the date is final I’m mandated to attend. Right when my accelerated program begins!!!

I hope it’s a one-hit wonder and not dragged on...I think to avoid an appealment I best wait til I’m off TDRL to show I’ve stabilized and may seek employment within my SEH (once I prove it). This really is a hit to the gut, but here’s to hoping patience and preparation pays off..

In the meantime, I have 100% of my post 9-11 Benefits starting this Fall so I have wiggle room to process my case once my TDRL is hopefully finalized sooner rather than later...

 

[esob]

I heard they were making adjustments from 5 years to 3, but apparently it’s not finalized:

https://wct.army.mil/modules/soldier/s6-tdrl.html#HOWLONG

I received a letter telling me my first follow up examination is in August but have not told me a specific day...Nonetheless once the date is final I’m mandated to attend. Right when my accelerated program begins!!!

I hope it’s a one-hit wonder and not dragged on...I think to avoid an appealment I best wait til I’m off TDRL to show I’ve stabilized and may seek employment within my SEH (once I prove it). This really is a hit to the gut, but here’s to hoping patience and preparation pays off..

In the meantime, I have 100% of my post 9-11 Benefits starting this Fall so I have wiggle room to process my case once my TDRL is hopefully finalized sooner rather than later...

Sorry to hear man, it's an unfortunate setup the army has where they basically say "we've pretty much ruined you mentally and physically, but we want to string you along a bit more for good measure just in case we need another warm body to soak up the depleted uranium and we can't convince young and healthy people to do it anymore" In all seriousness though, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell if a SCD will ever improve to the point that would make a soldier once again deployable, and in almost all cases, that answer is no. I could even understand them doing it for the sake of finances if it were the parent service branch that was going to primarily undertake the burden of paying retirement, but in almost all cases, vets opt instead of the tax-exempt VA compensation, which negates any argument about keeping the TDRL system active for fiscal concerns. Honestly, the idea of getting yanked back onto AD at any point in time over a 5-year timeframe, however, is mind-numbing, to say the least, and is not (IMHO) conducive to disabled vets working toward a plan of rehabilitation.

 

[BC_89]

Update:

**April 22 2019**: E-Benefits finalized my disability rating at the 100% service connected rate. I’m still under TDRL and found out it’s “3 years” for a decision since I started my filing after Jan 1st 2017 (times past it was indeed 5 years for a final decision). I’ll be mandated for a re-evaluation every 6-18 months for a final permanent decision with my rating.

I have decided that by July I will officially apply for Voc-Rehab through my online portal and prepare for my first appointment while concurrently utilizing my post 9-11 benefits (coupled with the yellow ribbon program). I anticipate the initial appointment taking 2-3 months to start, but I’ll prepare and actively see what will take place.

 

[esob]

Congrats! Honestly, the biggest benefit you will take with you is not the retirement pay, it is Tricare. It isn't the greatest insurance but knowing that you will always have coverage and that you won't have to pass up a job you really want to take in the future solely because the healthcare package is inadequate will be a very nice asset to have for the rest of your life.

Aside from that, if you need to be rated for an SEH, a 100% service rating makes it pretty hard for Voc Rehab to deny an SEH with that rating level.

 

[BC_89]

Congrats! Honestly, the biggest benefit you will take with you is not the retirement pay, it is Tricare. It isn't the greatest insurance but knowing that you will always have coverage and that you won't have to pass up a job you really want to take in the future solely because the healthcare package is inadequate will be a very nice asset to have for the rest of your life.

Aside from that, if you need to be rated for an SEH, a 100% service rating makes it pretty hard for Voc Rehab to deny an SEH with that rating level.

That was my conclusion as well when it comes to proving an SEH. Although I was skeptical with the TDRL, the 100% rating at this time puts me at ease in going in to the meeting a little more prepared than before. I also agree with the Tricare. For the time being, that's definitely the greatest benefit I can have for myself and the kids growing up!

 

[loveokfood]

That was my conclusion as well when it comes to proving an SEH. Although I was skeptical with the TDRL, the 100% rating at this time puts me at ease in going in to the meeting a little more prepared than before. I also agree with the Tricare. For the time being, that's definitely the greatest benefit I can have for myself and the kids growing up!

I have my first appt soon w/ VRC for pharmacy school and I am super nervous! I too was a pharmacy tech and would like to go towards clinical pharmacy so I can sit. Your posts have been rather helpful. I am nervous about it bc its an “advanced degree”. I will let you know how my experience goes!

 

[BC_89]

I feel I need to make "clear" my TDRL status and 100% rating status (I broadly coupled them into my overall rating when I need to be more specific for future readers and even myself when going into my preparation with a new VRC).

My latest update needs to be simplified...I don't want to edit but rather explain the details as I think it'll better serve in addition to my overall Voc-Rehab Journey as my time comes closer....

I noted earlier in my posts last December that I received a DOD and VA rating....I want to make clear that my latest update is in reference to my 100% disability rating which indeed is noted as service connected according to the Veteran Affairs Department NOT the military (Department of Defense). The DOD has me on TDRL (Temporary-Disabled-Retiree-Listing) at 70% but my VA findings have recently been 100% with no mention of TDRL at all.

With this information, does this mean that my VA determination rating is finalized and only my re-evaluation under TDRL is based on the army and what they deem as permanent for Tricare purposes? I ask this because if this is the case, my future-to-be Voc-Rehab Counselor has no "ammo" to justify my disabilities as "unstable" since that TDRL label came from the DOD and NOT the VA correct? If this is the case, all that the VRC has to know is that I have a 100% rating and what my conditions are labeled as (but has no business to know if I'm TDRL).

My 20 page front-and-back VA letter does not mention anything about TDRL (nor does my E-benefits portal). Anyone else have a thought or experience with this? If it truly is deemed separate I have more ammo for myself and NOT my future VRC.

 

[loveokfood]

I feel I need to make "clear" my TDRL status and 100% rating status (I broadly coupled them into my overall rating when I need to be more specific for future readers and even myself when going into my preparation with a new VRC).

My latest update needs to be simplified...I don't want to edit but rather explain the details as I think it'll better serve in addition to my overall Voc-Rehab Journey as my time comes closer....

I noted earlier in my posts last December that I received a DOD and VA rating....I want to make clear that my latest update is in reference to my 100% disability rating which indeed is noted as service connected according to the Veteran Affairs Department NOT the military (Department of Defense). The DOD has me on TDRL (Temporary-Disabled-Retiree-Listing) at 70% but my VA findings have recently been 100% with no mention of TDRL at all.

With this information, does this mean that my VA determination rating is finalized and only my re-evaluation under TDRL is based on the army and what they deem as permanent for Tricare purposes? I ask this because if this is the case, my future-to-be Voc-Rehab Counselor has no "ammo" to justify my disabilities as "unstable" since that TDRL label came from the DOD and NOT the VA correct? If this is the case, all that the VRC has to know is that I have a 100% rating and what my conditions are labeled as (but has no business to know if I'm TDRL).

My 20 page front-and-back VA letter does not mention anything about TDRL (nor does my E-benefits portal). Anyone else have a thought or experience with this? If it truly is deemed separate I have more ammo for myself and NOT my future VRC.

I was found entitled. I will go next week to go over the vocational goal and another assessment. I was also told there is a “red flag” with the pharm school I was accepted to (its accredited so idk what it could be). I dont want to put on here the school but if someone is familiar with a situation like this please message me. But I was told we will discuss it next week.

 

[BC_89]

I was found entitled. I will go next week to go over the vocational goal and another assessment. I was also told there is a “red flag” with the pharm school I was accepted to (its accredited so idk what it could be). I dont want to put on here the school but if someone is familiar with a situation like this please message me. But I was told we will discuss it next week.

For most programs, it doesn’t just come down to Accreditation but cost (no surprise). I’m only speculating, but it could be due to you attending a private or out of state program if they found you had more than one acceptance...Even the simple title of “for-profit” could bring up the caution.

Another speculation is attrition rate as well as NAPLEX pass rates and the advertised job placements the institute puts out. May not meet the threshold your region feels comfortable with.

Without much detail, that’s my take.

 

[loveokfood]

For most programs, it doesn’t just come down to Accreditation but cost (no surprise). I’m only speculating, but it could be due to you attending a private or out of state program if they found you had more than one acceptance...Even the simple title of “for-profit” could bring up the caution.

Another speculation is attrition rate as well as NAPLEX pass rates and the advertised job placements the institute puts out. May not meet the threshold your region feels comfortable with.

Without much detail, that’s my take.

That makes sense.

 

[Boomer10]

Greetings everybody! I am new here and am pleasantly surprised there is an active community here talking about Voc Rehab. I’ve read through this thread, as well as the previous one that is 9 pages; and would greatly appreciate any advice.


I am a former Air Force Aerial Combat Videographer and I was just approved yesterday for 10% SCD due to Tinnitus(they denied me when I got out in 2015, I reapplied after a friend told me about VocRehab) I completed an undergrad degree (using post 9/11 GI Bill) in Journalism and was accepted, pending completion of an accelerated “lateral” year of grad school, to the only Audiology (AuD) program in my state. I just finished this lateral year of grad school and officially start as a “year 1” AuD student in September. After reading through the important CFRs, it seems to me that I would need to explain 1. I have no interest in the field of journalism. I don’t like it, The pay stinks and doesn’t provide for my wife (and in a few months, daughter) 2. Being in loud environments triggers my tinnitus to become unbearable. After the military I have worked for an NBA team (extremely loud) and I currently work seasonally filming horse races (loud environment).



My questions;
will being only 10% disqualify me?
What do I need to expand on, to give myself a fighting chance? (I intend on bringing copies of the pertinent CFRs, acceptance letter, transcripts from first year of grad classes, 3.75 GPA)
Do I need my PCP to write me a bill of faith , or should I notify him of the struggles I have working at the race track?

I’m sure they will say , “see, you can find a videographer job with your degree” to which I will respond that my tinnitus is exasperated by the loud environment and being on a noisy headset 24/7. I want to be an audiologist to help those that endure the same problems as I do (I’ll also be in control of my seemingly calm/quiet environment)


Thanks in advance for any responses! Sounds like getting a good VRC is half the battle, and I understand that others have far worse disabilities than Tinnitus.

 

[esob]

So, the 1st hurdle is that you will need to be found to have a serious employment handicap (SEH) since your rating is 10%.

You can read about the context of an SEH here:

38 CFR § 21.52 - Determining serious employment handicap.

www.law.cornell.edu

It is, of course, a bit of grey area, as a VRC will likely try to make the case that paragraph (a)(3)(i) excludes you from the determination since your work as a videographer could be limited to lower volume events. Now, if you could demonstrate that by restricting your clientele to only low volume events, that you are unable to make a living, then you could claim that your service-connected disability is indeed an SEH. I think you would have to have some sort of paper trail to demonstrate this, however, if you wanted the case to be compelling enough to sway the typical VRC.

 

[loveokfood]

I have to find job listings that show they dont aggravate my injuries. For clinical pharmacist jobs none of them say “this is a sitting job” because they all are sitting. How can i prove they are sitting jobs?

 

[BC_89]

I have to find job listings that show they dont aggravate my injuries. For clinical pharmacist jobs none of them say “this is a sitting job” because they all are sitting. How can i prove they are sitting jobs?

Well, define a sitting job because many of the clinical pharmacists (especially specialized PGY-2 slots) that I’ve worked with / under don’t sit. Those in general clinical settings round with other healthcare professionals and check the intricacies of pharmacotherapy of their patients.

Although they do sit, they primarily move around (unless your talking admin roles or working on behalf of insurance claims) so that’ll be tough to prove in that scenario

 

[loveokfood]

Well, define a sitting job because many of the clinical pharmacists (especially specialized PGY-2 slots) that I’ve worked with / under don’t sit. Those in general clinical settings round with other healthcare professionals and check the intricacies of pharmacotherapy of their patients.

Although they do sit, they primarily move around (unless your talking admin roles or working on behalf of insurance claims) so that’ll be tough to prove in that scenario

When I worked for a clinical pharmacist it was in an office setting. The pharmacist assisted doctors on their coumadin/diabetes patients. I tried to find those sort of positions for my case.

 

[Boomer10]

I have an appointment with a VRC Thursday morning, I'll update you all with the results.

 

[Boomer10]

My appointment this morning resulted in the decision "not entitled".

My VRC was a very nice guy, so I don't see where changing people will get a different opinion. He would say "This is where I'm at, what are your thoughts", I'd respond with how journalism doesn't fit my interests or abilities. Tinnitus impacts me when doing camerawork due to the loud environment and headset communication. He said he could find jobs for me with my degree, even things that don't have anything to do with my degree. I told him I want to be an Audiologist, I've been accepted into Audiology school etc... I was then told they could only cover 12 more months since I used the GI Bill. Luckily I had done some research on here and countered that if a SEH was found then the program could be paid for in entirety. He seemed a little shocked I knew this and said that was true but certain criteria has to be met and there are people above him who are QC about that. Once again he said he could help me find a job but he knew that it probably wasn't what I wanted and reiterated "this is where I'm at, what are your thoughts"? I told him I am going to continue pursuing audiology and if there is anything I can do to sway is opinion. He said a doctors note listing Tinnitus restraints on my work would help. He said he will close the case and that I can email him this information and he can open it back up.


Has anyone else had luck doing this? Does anyone have any recommendations to add to the email when/if I get a doctors note?

I believe he genuinely gave me a fair shake and will probably be my best bet for getting a positive decision; I just need help persuading him.

 

[BC_89]

My appointment this morning resulted in the decision "not entitled".

My VRC was a very nice guy, so I don't see where changing people will get a different opinion. He would say "This is where I'm at, what are your thoughts", I'd respond with how journalism doesn't fit my interests or abilities. Tinnitus impacts me when doing camerawork due to the loud environment and headset communication. He said he could find jobs for me with my degree, even things that don't have anything to do with my degree. I told him I want to be an Audiologist, I've been accepted into Audiology school etc... I was then told they could only cover 12 more months since I used the GI Bill. Luckily I had done some research on here and countered that if a SEH was found then the program could be paid for in entirety. He seemed a little shocked I knew this and said that was true but certain criteria has to be met and there are people above him who are QC about that. Once again he said he could help me find a job but he knew that it probably wasn't what I wanted and reiterated "this is where I'm at, what are your thoughts"? I told him I am going to continue pursuing audiology and if there is anything I can do to sway is opinion. He said a doctors note listing Tinnitus restraints on my work would help. He said he will close the case and that I can email him this information and he can open it back up.


Has anyone else had luck doing this? Does anyone have any recommendations to add to the email when/if I get a doctors note?

I believe he genuinely gave me a fair shake and will probably be my best bet for getting a positive decision; I just need help persuading him.

Its good you did some homework regarding SEH and not go along with the 12 month extension based on the combination of the GI Bill + Voc-Rehab (which isn't true in its entirety due to Voc-Rehab not being an educational entitlement but an "employment" entitlement that may cover education for entry level employment … Thus it is not bound by the 48 month educational benefits rule).

Unfortunately I'm not sure what more you can do other than be diligent with the doctors note. I'd have your specialist make specific outlines of what type of area or job setting you cannot work in just to give you a professional opinion-turned-fact when presenting your case once again. If you trust him/her enough to re-open and not have you go through an appeal, then I would insist on showing any additional advantage you have with gainful employment in audiology by way of your transcripts if you've been a student at least for one semester.

In the meantime, review your specific disabilities and word it to meet a majority or all of the criteria outlined in 38 CFR & 21.52 (with your DOCTOR)

38 CFR § 21.52 - Determining serious employment handicap.

www.law.cornell.edu

I don't know your background, but if you have been unemployed or only part time, use that in your favor when showing evidence of an exasperated SCD that either is getting worse or not getting any better (I would word this with your specialist in coping this along with your doctors note).

 

[Boomer10]

Its good you did some homework regarding SEH and not go along with the 12 month extension based on the combination of the GI Bill + Voc-Rehab (which isn't true in its entirety due to Voc-Rehab not being an educational entitlement but an "employment" entitlement that may cover education for entry level employment … Thus it is not bound by the 48 month educational benefits rule).

Unfortunately I'm not sure what more you can do other than be diligent with the doctors note. I'd have your specialist make specific outlines of what type of area or job setting you cannot work in just to give you a professional opinion-turned-fact when presenting your case once again. If you trust him/her enough to re-open and not have you go through an appeal, then I would insist on showing any additional advantage you have with gainful employment in audiology by way of your transcripts if you've been a student at least for one semester.

In the meantime, review your specific disabilities and word it to meet a majority or all of the criteria outlined in 38 CFR & 21.52 (with your DOCTOR)

38 CFR § 21.52 - Determining serious employment handicap.

www.law.cornell.edu

I don't know your background, but if you have been unemployed or only part time, use that in your favor when showing evidence of an exasperated SCD that either is getting worse or not getting any better (I would word this with your specialist in coping this along with your doctors note).

Thanks for your help! I thought I had a breakthrough, I had a very good doctors note. This is the email I received from my VRC.

****,

"Like we discussed at our face-to-face meeting, the medical documentation does help but what I was saying at our initial appointment is that, with your current degree, you are employable and it does not have to be in the same field you were in before. I will be glad to schedule another appointment with you and we can go over your options again if you would like, just let me know."

I'm really stumped at how i'm being railroaded with this response. Any tips?


I'm guessing I should email him back highlighting the CFR's regarding INTERESTS, abilities and aptitudes? Maybe bring up that 15% of the individuals in the program have at least a bachelors degree.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Thanks for your help! I thought I had a breakthrough, I had a very good doctors note. This is the email I received from my VRC.

****,

"Like we discussed at our face-to-face meeting, the medical documentation does help but what I was saying at our initial appointment is that, with your current degree, you are employable and it does not have to be in the same field you were in before. I will be glad to schedule another appointment with you and we can go over your options again if you would like, just let me know."

I'm really stumped at how i'm being railroaded with this response. Any tips?


I'm guessing I should email him back highlighting the CFR's regarding INTERESTS, abilities and aptitudes? Maybe bring up that 15% of the individuals in the program have at least a bachelors degree.

What is the employment that is being suggested to you since they mention it doesn't have to be in the field? And what kind of jobs will a journalism degree get you? Have you spoken with the supervisor at all?

 

[Boomer10]

He said he know people on the air force base that have degrees in something that don't relate to their jobs. I have a journalism degree in video production and thats what I did in the air force (aerial videographer).

My doctor wrote "Due to his problem with tinnitus it is my belief that it would be difficult to obtain or maintain consistent employment in this career field. The high pitched ringing significantly worsens with the wearing of the head sets and uncontrollable and often noisy environments. I support his request for vocational rehab to the audiology field because of its controlled environment".

Also- I haven’t spoken with a supervisor yet