Clarity on the voc rehab/ gi bill

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jhurl91

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I've been a member of SDN for a while and have been watching in the back observing and eating popcorn. As dental school inches ever closer for me, tuition and loans are a growing concern (obviously). Currently, I am a recipient of a post 9/11 gi bill and will have approximately 7 months remaining by the time I'm set to graduate in the spring. While attending school, I've run into a student that was utilizing the voc rehab benefit to cover his school tuition. He intrigued me with some stats so I went home to research the benefit. LET ME TELL YA, the information I found was so contradicting and convoluted. I was hoping this group would be able to offer some clarity! After researching the criteria that was needed in order to be eligible for voc rehab, I do qualify. Knowing that I then went and tried to answer the question of what it would do for me in my scenario. I noticed that there was testimony from the forums offered on this website that stated they had undergrad and four years of grad school covered by using both chapters 33 and 31. Is this truly possible or is one only entitled to 48 months?
The 48 months of coverage for voc rehab also brings up another question that I've had difficulty answering. Chapter 33 benefits cover 36 months' worth of school, which equals 4 years. Does that mean you can get 12 months of coverage from the voc rehab once the gi bill s exhausted, 0 months of coverage because you burned 4 years of gi bill or 4 more years on top of chapter 33. I saw a comment in the forum that he had been approved for coverage of all 4 years of grad school using voc rehab with just one month of post 9/11 gi bill remaining. It's a long-winded post however if someone can offer insight into this it would be greatly appreciated.

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I've been a member of SDN for a while and have been watching in the back observing and eating popcorn. As dental school inches ever closer for me, tuition and loans are a growing concern (obviously). Currently, I am a recipient of a post 9/11 gi bill and will have approximately 7 months remaining by the time I'm set to graduate in the spring. While attending school, I've run into a student that was utilizing the voc rehab benefit to cover his school tuition. He intrigued me with some stats so I went home to research the benefit. LET ME TELL YA, the information I found was so contradicting and convoluted. I was hoping this group would be able to offer some clarity! After researching the criteria that was needed in order to be eligible for voc rehab, I do qualify. Knowing that I then went and tried to answer the question of what it would do for me in my scenario. I noticed that there was testimony from the forums offered on this website that stated they had undergrad and four years of grad school covered by using both chapters 33 and 31. Is this truly possible or is one only entitled to 48 months?
The 48 months of coverage for voc rehab also brings up another question that I've had difficulty answering. Chapter 33 benefits cover 36 months' worth of school, which equals 4 years. Does that mean you can get 12 months of coverage from the voc rehab once the gi bill s exhausted, 0 months of coverage because you burned 4 years of gi bill or 4 more years on top of chapter 33. I saw a comment in the forum that he had been approved for coverage of all 4 years of grad school using voc rehab with just one month of post 9/11 gi bill remaining. It's a long-winded post however if someone can offer insight into this it would be greatly appreciated.

Did you read this thread? The reason you are confused is because the program is a mess and pretty much like playing the lottery (only better odds). Some people get a great counselor and win the jackpot of benefits, some people lose and get unjustly denied for benefits which requires appeals and more BS. Regardless, apply early and hope you get a good counselor, if not, there are steps to take to appeal. Feel free to post in that thread for advice or look and see some of the great advice given already.

I used Voc rehab for 3 years of medical school and then still had some GI Bill remaining which I used for part of my residency (I got the monthly stipend which was pretty nice as I was in a pretty expensive area). For the record I definitely received over 48 months of benefits. Some people on this forum told me it was a mistake that would be reclaimed by the VA, but so far that hasn't happened.
 
I've been a member of SDN for a while and have been watching in the back observing and eating popcorn. As dental school inches ever closer for me, tuition and loans are a growing concern (obviously). Currently, I am a recipient of a post 9/11 gi bill and will have approximately 7 months remaining by the time I'm set to graduate in the spring. While attending school, I've run into a student that was utilizing the voc rehab benefit to cover his school tuition. He intrigued me with some stats so I went home to research the benefit. LET ME TELL YA, the information I found was so contradicting and convoluted. I was hoping this group would be able to offer some clarity! After researching the criteria that was needed in order to be eligible for voc rehab, I do qualify. Knowing that I then went and tried to answer the question of what it would do for me in my scenario. I noticed that there was testimony from the forums offered on this website that stated they had undergrad and four years of grad school covered by using both chapters 33 and 31. Is this truly possible or is one only entitled to 48 months?
The 48 months of coverage for voc rehab also brings up another question that I've had difficulty answering. Chapter 33 benefits cover 36 months' worth of school, which equals 4 years. Does that mean you can get 12 months of coverage from the voc rehab once the gi bill s exhausted, 0 months of coverage because you burned 4 years of gi bill or 4 more years on top of chapter 33. I saw a comment in the forum that he had been approved for coverage of all 4 years of grad school using voc rehab with just one month of post 9/11 gi bill remaining. It's a long-winded post however if someone can offer insight into this it would be greatly appreciated.
For starters: You're correct. VR&E is confusing as much as it is difficult to obtain. I'll try and summarize the basics of how it works. If you have follow up questions feel free to post here. The issue with some of our past threads (although great information) is that the rules change so frequently that the information listed just a year ago is outdated. Here's a couple of threads that might assist in getting you started and how the process loosely works:

***July 2019 Update*** FAQs - Chapter 30 & 33 Benefits - VR&E Chapter 31 Benefits : Files Attached | Student Doctor Network

Chapter 31 "Qualifying for Voc-Rehab" Journey | Student Doctor Network

**Chapter 31 (VR&E) Benefits**

They cover everything that the GI Bill covers with additional benefits. If needed, they'll pay for a computer, printer, transportation if needed (ie city bus to and from school), plus no cap coverage on book supplies and study material (some caps exist depending on the school material but a syllabus will be put out letting you know what will be paid for). If needed, they'll pay for tutoring, licensure material and travel to and from the testing facility (in your case they'll pay the material to study for your licensure exam as well as pay the fees to sit for the exam). After graduation, they'll pay an additional month of housing (based off of the zip code of your school) if you are not employed at the time. This rule has changed due to COVID-19 but assume this will be the case for now.

**Chapter 31 (VR&E) Cons**

VR&E pays a housing stipend that is far less than the GI Bill. Subsistence Allowance Rates is constantly updated but will provide a calculator based on the zip code of your school of how much you will receive. Now, if you have at least ONE DAY left of your GI Bill when you start the VR&E benefits, you will automatically be given the GI Bill Housing rate for the remainder of your benefits. However, if you completely exhaust your GI Bill when starting the program, you will be placed at the lower stipend rate mentioned above. Keep in mind, you are paid housing based off of how many days of each month you are in school. For example, if a semester ends Dec 4th and the next semester starts Jan 4th, you will only be paid 4 days out of December and 4 days less out of January for housing.

**Rules and Criteria**

The law states that you can only receive up to 48 months worth of entitlement of all programs (Montgomery, Post 9/11, VR&E). If you use 36 months of GI Bill, you can only be granted 12 months worth of benefits through VR&E. However, there is an exception: If you qualify as having a Serious Employment Handicap (SEH) then you may be granted an extension that will cover your schooling up to graduation. For details of this regulation see the link below. It will be up to your counselor and the evidence you provide (mentioned later in my comment) to see if you qualify.

38 CFR § 21.52 - Determining serious employment handicap. | CFR | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

Chapter 31 (VR&E) is a program meant for veterans that have service connected disabilities that prohibit them from maintaining or obtaining employability (loose definition). Part of getting accepted into the program is an initial interview with an assigned counselor. They will ask specific questions regarding your disability status. For example, they'll ask if you're employed, do you have current certificates or degrees? Can you currently use said certificates or degrees? Why or why not? so on and so forth...

**How the Process Works*

Number 1:
Chapter 31 (VR&E) is no longer called Vocational Rehabilitation & Employment (voc rehab) its now known as the Veteran Readiness & Employment Program (still VR&E). It'll be good to know once you get to the point of seeing your counselor.

Number 2: Assuming you understand and qualify for VR&E, you'll need to apply through e-benefits and create an account (DD-214 will suffice to get started). You cannot call or walk in the VA federal building. You must apply online.

Number 3: You'll receive an email / letter letting you know that you're "eligible" for VR&E benefits and services. This is not an acceptance. It merely means you are in the system and will be appointed a counselor with a set date to interview. You'll be given a link to do a Career Assessment that you will then be sending to your counselor when the time comes. It's a survey to evaluate what career paths meet your criteria. It's just a formality but you must have it completed. I suggest applying sooner rather than later. With the current pandemic, many counselors are backed up and it might be a few months before anyone gets in contact with you.

Number 4: Once you submit the Career Assessment document and the interview day has arrived, you will be assigned a counselor who will perform the initial interview with you. Pre-COVID they had all the assigned veterans meet in person and had you watch a tutorial of what to expect. Many now meet online one on one with their counselor.

At this point, this is typically the end for many veterans seeking higher education and will receive a denial. You must go in prepared and provide sufficient evidence of backing up "Why Dental School" and not other job paths that you could do with your degree and experience. The program is meant for those seeking entry level employment. Although entry level employment for a dentist is a dental degree, you still have to provide why other easier career paths won't work. For details, look at the thread I attached talking about qualifying for Voc-Rehab. I showed up professionally dressed with a 3-ring binder with the following information:

Occupational Outlook Data of my Career Choice, Minimal Requirements Needed for my job choice (pharmacist), Acceptance Letter to School, Accreditation Status of my program, Current Bureau of Labor Statistics of Career, CV/Resume, Past Military Occupational Specialty, Scoring Report from my Career Assessment Document, School Transcripts, Copy of my Service Connected Disabilities with current rating and pension, Current living budget assessment (Excel Sheet of how I am currently providing for my family), A letter quoting CFR codes of how this career path meets my interest and aptitudes (Specifically, CFR subsection 21.51 states that an employment handicap (as well as an SEH) is implied when the veteran lacks the ability to prepare for, obtain, or keep employment in an occupation consistent with his or her abilities, aptitudes, and interests).

Number 5: At this point, you will be denied or accepted. If accepted, you will start an Individual Written Rehabilitation Plan (IWRP) which is a contract stating what goals and objectives you will complete while under the program. See link below for additional details:

38 CFR § 21.84 - Individualized written rehabilitation plan. | CFR | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

If you're denied, you may appeal. The process is strung out with very few turn-arounds. However, if finally accepted, you will be back paid for school costs from the time you first applied before the appeal.

Believe it or not, this is a very brief outline of what to expect. I myself was denied twice before getting accepted on my 3rd attempt. It can be done, but these days very few make it in the program. Hope for the best, but you need to prepare for the worst. Half the battle is being prepared, the other half is your counselor.
 
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Wow, thanks for this. I am hoping to use this for my doctorate.
For starters: You're correct. VR&E is confusing as much as it is difficult to obtain. I'll try and summarize the basics of how it works. If you have follow up questions feel free to post here. The issue with some of our past threads (although great information) is that the rules change so frequently that the information listed just a year ago is outdated. Here's a couple of threads that might assist in getting you started and how the process loosely works:

***July 2019 Update*** FAQs - Chapter 30 & 33 Benefits - VR&E Chapter 31 Benefits : Files Attached | Student Doctor Network

Chapter 31 "Qualifying for Voc-Rehab" Journey | Student Doctor Network

**Chapter 31 (VR&E) Benefits**

They cover everything that the GI Bill covers with additional benefits. If needed, they'll pay for a computer, printer, transportation if needed (ie city bus to and from school), plus no cap coverage on book supplies and study material (some caps exist depending on the school material but a syllabus will be put out letting you know what will be paid for). If needed, they'll pay for tutoring, licensure material and travel to and from the testing facility (in your case they'll pay the material to study for your licensure exam as well as pay the fees to sit for the exam). After graduation, they'll pay an additional month of housing (based off of the zip code of your school) if you are not employed at the time. This rule has changed due to COVID-19 but assume this will be the case for now.

**Chapter 31 (VR&E) Cons**

VR&E pays a housing stipend that is far less than the GI Bill. Subsistence Allowance Rates is constantly updated but will provide a calculator based on the zip code of your school of how much you will receive. Now, if you have at least ONE DAY left of your GI Bill when you start the VR&E benefits, you will automatically be given the GI Bill Housing rate for the remainder of your benefits. However, if you completely exhaust your GI Bill when starting the program, you will be placed at the lower stipend rate mentioned above. Keep in mind, you are paid housing based off of how many days of each month you are in school. For example, if a semester ends Dec 4th and the next semester starts Jan 4th, you will only be paid 4 days out of December and 4 days less out of January for housing.

**Rules and Criteria**

The law states that you can only receive up to 48 months worth of entitlement of all programs (Montgomery, Post 9/11, VR&E). If you use 36 months of GI Bill, you can only be granted 12 months worth of benefits through VR&E. However, there is an exception: If you qualify as having a Serious Employment Handicap (SEH) then you may be granted an extension that will cover your schooling up to graduation. For details of this regulation see the link below. It will be up to your counselor and the evidence you provide (mentioned later in my comment) to see if you qualify.

38 CFR § 21.52 - Determining serious employment handicap. | CFR | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

Chapter 31 (VR&E) is a program meant for veterans that have service connected disabilities that prohibit them from maintaining or obtaining employability (loose definition). Part of getting accepted into the program is an initial interview with an assigned counselor. They will ask specific questions regarding your disability status. For example, they'll ask if you're employed, do you have current certificates or degrees? Can you currently use said certificates or degrees? Why or why not? so on and so forth...

**How the Process Works*

Number 1:
Chapter 31 (VR&E) is no longer called Vocational Rehabilitation & Employment (voc rehab) its now known as the Veteran Readiness & Employment Program (still VR&E). It'll be good to know once you get to the point of seeing your counselor.

Number 2: Assuming you understand and qualify for VR&E, you'll need to apply through e-benefits and create an account (DD-214 will suffice to get started). You cannot call or walk in the VA federal building. You must apply online.

Number 3: You'll receive an email / letter letting you know that you're "eligible" for VR&E benefits and services. This is not an acceptance. It merely means you are in the system and will be appointed a counselor with a set date to interview. You'll be given a link to do a Career Assessment that you will then be sending to your counselor when the time comes. It's a survey to evaluate what career paths meet your criteria. It's just a formality but you must have it completed. I suggest applying sooner rather than later. With the current pandemic, many counselors are backed up and it might be a few months before anyone gets in contact with you.

Number 4: Once you submit the Career Assessment document and the interview day has arrived, you will be assigned a counselor who will perform the initial interview with you. Pre-COVID they had all the assigned veterans meet in person and had you watch a tutorial of what to expect. Many now meet online one on one with their counselor.

At this point, this is typically the end for many veterans seeking higher education and will receive a denial. You must go in prepared and provide sufficient evidence of backing up "Why Dental School" and not other job paths that you could do with your degree and experience. The program is meant for those seeking entry level employment. Although entry level employment for a dentist is a dental degree, you still have to provide why other easier career paths won't work. For details, look at the thread I attached talking about qualifying for Voc-Rehab. I showed up professionally dressed with a 3-ring binder with the following information:

Occupational Outlook Data of my Career Choice, Minimal Requirements Needed for my job choice (pharmacist), Acceptance Letter to School, Accreditation Status of my program, Current Bureau of Labor Statistics of Career, CV/Resume, Past Military Occupational Specialty, Scoring Report from my Career Assessment Document, School Transcripts, Copy of my Service Connected Disabilities with current rating and pension, Current living budget assessment (Excel Sheet of how I am currently providing for my family), A letter quoting CFR codes of how this career path meets my interest and aptitudes (Specifically, CFR subsection 21.51 states that an employment handicap (as well as an SEH) is implied when the veteran lacks the ability to prepare for, obtain, or keep employment in an occupation consistent with his or her abilities, aptitudes, and interests).

Number 5: At this point, you will be denied or accepted. If accepted, you will start an Individual Written Rehabilitation Plan (IWRP) which is a contract stating what goals and objectives you will complete while under the program. See link below for additional details:

38 CFR § 21.84 - Individualized written rehabilitation plan. | CFR | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

If you're denied, you may appeal. The process is strung out with very few turn-arounds. However, if finally accepted, you will be back paid for school costs from the time you first applied before the appeal.

Believe it or not, this is a very brief outline of what to expect. I myself was denied twice before getting accepted on my 3rd attempt. It can be done, but these days very few make it in the program. Hope for the best, but you need to prepare for the worst. Half the battle is being prepared, the other half is your counselor.
 
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Does that mean you can get 12 months of coverage from the voc rehab once the gi bill s exhausted, 0 months of coverage because you burned 4 years of gi bill or 4 more years on top of chapter 33.

Just to answer this part clearly: Yes to the first part of the question. If you use 36 months of GI Bill, you will have 12 months potentially remaining of VRE. This can be extended though as many of us posting in these threads have used well beyond the 48-month limit. So it is NOT 4 more years on top of 33.

That said, previously use of VRE would also reduce 33 just the same as above. A recent change on Apr 1, which is covered in other posts here, no longer deducts 33 from VRE use. So if you still have those 7 months remaining (unless that was prior to the start of your current semester which would leave you around 3 ish now), whatever is left over at the time of starting VRE you will have those remaining after you're done with VRE assuming you have no limiting date (EAS in 2013+) or are within your delimiting date.
 
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