MD Being an MD is overrated?

[orthodoc64]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[lanzhou_lamian]

At the end of the day, PhD and MD are all just pathways to jobs. I think a "good" job is one where the value that you're getting out of it is higher than the unhappiness it is causing you. I think if you play medicine right, the value you get out of it can be high, because it can be:

• Stable
• High paying
• Socially well respected
• "Helps people"
• Relatively intellectually stimulating
• Flexible (If you want to interact with people and not ever sit at a desk, there's a path for that. If you want to sit at a desk and never interact with people, there's a path for that.)

Of course, the unhappiness medicine can cause (high stakes work, emotional, stress, burnout, etc.) is also high.

Being a PhD would be "harder" for me, because the things that are stressful in that world (the uncertainty, the ambiguity, the lab work, etc.) cause me unhappiness. But for some people, that's the whole draw. They like meandering around labs, reading scientific literature, doing and re-doing experiments, etc.

 

[Pmr.attendingdoc]

I am sure a plumber can do a bronch or colonoscopy but the part that would not be doable would be how not to perforate the organs. These jokesters forgot that the whole idea behind medical school is to teach what can go wrong at anytime and how to tackle that.
Tell them to do a bronch and colonoscopy without peeing in their pants

 

[orthodoc64]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

Consider the source.

 

[7331poas]

So much cognitive dissonance in this thread. Do you really think that a dermatologist is 5x harder than a chemical engineering PhD and thats why they get paid 5x more? You have to be kidding me.

After working in both industries, I would say what a senior level software/hardware engineer does on a daily basis is more complex than what a primary care doc is doing. People act like it takes so much "brain power" to do the things most doctors do. Learn the algorithms, learn when they don't apply. Consult when you don't know any better.

Don't get me wrong, I will defend my salary to my death, but you cannot convince me there is any "real" reason why doctors should get paid orders of magnitude higher than other professions. Only two decent reasons: 1) healthcare costs are fraudulantly inflated across the board and 2) doctors need higher salaries to justify the training length.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Being an MD has brought me nothing but misery, from mental anguish to dissolution of personal relationships.

I hate that this is the only thing I’m remotely competent at. If I could trade the earning potential for a less stressful and more flexible job I would.

 

[Iamnew2]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

Anyone can say anything is overrated. It's a free country and people have a right to their own opinion and thoughts. Being a physician is hard for countless reasons. A lot of people have the need to put others down in order to make themselves feel better. A lot of people want to be a doctor but don't want to put in the work. So reality is yes being a physician is a long,a rduous, complex and challenging path. Can someone think it's overrated? Sure. Don't worry about what others say. Worry about your goal. Do you want to be a physician? If yes go ahead and go through the process. If no, or just to have mom and dad say my son/daughter is a doctor, dont do it. It's a long painful hard path. It has rewards but many challenges only. Do it only for the right reasons.

 

[DD214]

These encounters are easy

1) If you have the time and energy, turn it into an oral examination like what we used to have on our boards. Start with simple questions about basic things and keep asking follow up questions to show them they know absolutely nothing about the complexity of medical practice.

2) Tell them that science is overrated. You just wear a lab coat, play with test tubes and write a bunch of bull**** papers no one ever reads.

Either way is fun

 

[yeasports]

When I was in Podiatric Medical School, I had more free time than I did taking BS in chemical engineering by far. I was a Durlacher Honor Society for Exceptional Students during medical school. I was honor roll for chemical engineering. I would think a PhD in Chemical Engineering is more difficult than medical school too. Of course, I can only speak to my experience.

?
Dean's List?

 

[notretired]

After working in both industries, I would say what a senior level software/hardware engineer does on a daily basis is more complex than what a primary care doc is doing.

About 50% of the friends I've stayed close with since college (6+yrs ago) are engineers. I wasn't an engineer, so I think a lot of this actually due to the fact that they were the only people making enough money to casually travel and such throughout their mid-20's. I'd say respective difficulty of curriculum/jobs/med school has come up exactly 0 times in conversations. I know they're smart, but I'm about as interested in designing airplane parts as they are in the human body.

There are plenty of people outside medicine who could've done medicine. If someone feels the need to bring it up in conversation though, I automatically assume they aren't one of them.

 

[International_student]

😂😂😂😂 I’m a med student too and had this exact same debate with a friend who works at the FDA and was fed this stuff by his PhD PIs. How hilarious!!! My main counter argument was: give me enough time and I can complete just about any task in a lab. As a doctor you don’t have time to figure things out, either you know what you’re doing and you’re good at it, or you’re f***ed

 

[nimbus]

Anesthesiologist/stool sitter here. It’s much easier than teaching a bunch of middle schoolers.

 

[ploidy]

What about a DO.

 

[Neuroscifan]

The first time you see someone getting extubated for a minor ditzel surgery that’s 20 and supremely healthy and then they bronchospasm and you’re putting betadine on their neck praying the paralytic will kick in fast enough you’ll realize how much bull**** they spewed at you.

The first time you’re trying to bronch someone with a white out lung and you can’t get their sats higher than 70 you’ll realize how much bull**** they spewed at you.

The first time you see a tiny missed lung nodule from a rando CXR that turned into lung cancer that’s now metastatic two years later you’ll realize how much bull**** even this thread spewed at you with “real talk rads is easy”.

The only thing easy about medicine is that it’s easy to get complacent and let your guard down and kill someone unintentionally.

Your PhD friends can take a hike.

I feel like people who have these opinions have the best-case scenario with the easiest patients in mind. If every patient had the exact same anatomy with no variation, with the exact same pathology then maybe anyone could learn it with practice. They’re not thinking of the situations that doctors have to be prepared for when things go wrong. Would I ever trust someone to operate on my heart based on the qualification that they have done it before? No. Do I trust someone who has spent a decade learning all that there is to know about human anatomy and the pathology of what they’re trying to correct so that they are qualified to make snap decisions in life-or-death situations? Yes. That is a key difference between a monkey and a doctor. The doctor has the experience and knowledge accumulated over a grueling pre-practice education career to give them the confidence and understanding necessary to save lives.

 

[jgar26]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

I would personally never make a comment like that about a PhDs. Those who CAN’T do. Teach.

it’s insecurity and jealousy that the MD degree will always be held in higher esteem than most other degrees. Not that I care about that BS but that’s the nidus for this.

 

[operaman]

Anesthesiologist/stool sitter here. It’s much easier than teaching a bunch of middle schoolers.

ENT here who taught middle school right after college - can confirm. Those kids ate me alive. I didn’t even last a semester.

 

[samartin86]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

They sound jealous

 

[Osminog]

It's a total waste of time to argue over whether a profession is "overrated" or "underrated." There's no universal career rating system. People rate careers according to their own criteria. One may just as well argue over which ice cream flavor is best.

It's also a waste of time to argue over whether one profession is "harder" or "easier" than another. People all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Something that's a piece of cake for one person may be a challenge for another. A surgeon with poor bedside manner would possibly get punted out of a Walmart customer service job within a week. A clumsy psychiatrist would perhaps not succeed as a car mechanic. There's no point in having pissing contests over whose job is tougher.

The question that is more grounded in objective reality is, is the labor of physicians in the US overvalued relative to the real market value of their services? The answer is unequivocally yes. In the US, there is an artificial undersupply of physician services (due to an artificial shortage of physicians), and that causes wages to increase. Doctors make too much money relative to the actual value of their services. The "rating" and difficulty of their work duties, however, are purely matters of opinion.

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

It's a total waste of time to argue over whether a profession is "overrated" or "underrated." There's no universal career rating system. People rate careers according to their own criteria. One may just as well argue over which ice cream flavor is best.

It's also a waste of time to argue over whether one profession is "harder" or "easier" than another. People all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Something that's a piece of cake for one person may be a challenge for another. A surgeon with poor bedside manner would possibly get punted out of a Walmart customer service job within a week. A clumsy psychiatrist would perhaps not succeed as a car mechanic. There's no point in having pissing contests over whose job is tougher.

The question that is more grounded in objective reality is, is the labor of physicians in the US overvalued relative to the real market value of their services? The answer is unequivocally yes. In the US, there is an artificial undersupply of physician services (due to an artificial shortage of physicians), and that causes wages to increase. Doctors make too much money relative to the actual value of their services. The "rating" and difficulty of their work duties, however, are purely matters of opinion.

What salary do you think best represents the true value of a doctor's service?

 

[Osminog]

What salary do you think best represents the true value of a doctor's service?

Nobody can really know the answer to that question. If we could accurately determine optimal prices/wages on the basis of intuition alone, we wouldn't need markets. Financial firms use elaborate algorithms to try to determine the extent to which various goods/services are transiently over- or undervalued, and they're wrong much of the time.

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

Nobody can really know the answer to that question. If we could accurately determine optimal prices/wages on the basis of intuition alone, we wouldn't need markets. Financial firms use elaborate algorithms to try to determine the extent to which various goods/services are transiently over- or undervalued, and they're wrong much of the time.

Saying what you said is an example of how medical students/physicians tear themselves down and never gain any bargaining power. This conversation should start with the people in Hollywood and athletes, which often have the similar artificial barriers, but make excessive amounts of money without much concern from the general public.

 

[Temporal_weapon]

We just need a good copypasta about how medicine is the worst thing you can do with a bachelors “ever”, because it’s not the fastest way to become a venture capitalist or something.

it will be a great forum weapon for that weekly salary debate. 👍

 

[Osminog]

Saying what you said is an example of how medical students/physicians tear themselves down and never gain any bargaining power. This conversation should start with the people in Hollywood and athletes, which often have the similar artificial barriers, but make excessive amounts of money without much concern from the general public.

I care far more about healthcare access and costs for patients than I do about bargaining power for physicians.

There's no government-imposed limit on numbers of Hollywood celebrities or professional athletes allowed to work in the US, as far as I know, and there's no shortage of movie and sports entertainment. I don't see how that's analogous at all.

 

[Splenda88]

Lmao it’s just jealousy. I bet you these are the same people who run around calling themselves “doctors” in non-academic settings, then get pissed when people get confused because they’re not physicians. It reminds me of the lawyer (not a phd like these, but similar attitude) who, as a patient, started his first visit with me with “I have a juris doctorate, so I’m a doctor too.” (And he was serious, not joking)

What was your answer?

Why does almost everyone feel insecure about their profession when they are interacting with physician?

 

[Splenda88]

Lol, I find it funny that OP came here and asked a bunch of MDs to validate his opinions after getting butt hurt in an argument. TLDR, both paths are hard and have their challenges. Ours just pays better because society has deemed it so, and we tangibly change people's lives. Theirs, I would argue, is actually harder. There is no set path to make clinical discoveries and change people's lives. They will fail hundreds of times just to succeed once and just maybe change the world. I'm very happy in medicine, and I would not do what they do.

It depends of the PhD and the university it's coming from.

 

[Splenda88]

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

I care far more about healthcare access and costs for patients than I do about bargaining power for physicians.

There's no government-imposed limit on numbers of Hollywood celebrities or professional athletes allowed to work in the US, as far as I know, and there's no shortage of movie and sports entertainment. I don't see how that's analogous at all.

They artificially limit who can or cannot audition for projects, thereby inflating the value of talent. Let me ask you this, would you work for 50k?

 

[Splenda88]

Nobody can really know the answer to that question. If we could accurately determine optimal prices/wages on the basis of intuition alone, we wouldn't need markets. Financial firms use elaborate algorithms to try to determine the extent to which various goods/services are transiently over- or undervalued, and they're wrong much of the time.

Well, you seem to know since you just said we are overvalued.

 

[deleted314957]

I Graduated from med school in 1977 and retired in 2013. “AS A CAREER CHOICE”, I believe medicine is overrated, particularly in the past 20 years. Many of it’s remunerative
rewards and sense of personal fulfillment and satisfaction are gone as is much of the altruism. I could not recommend the field to anyone as it is today.

The other point to address is it is NOT easy once you have gone thru the HELL they put kids thru today. I don’t care what your specialty is, every problem that arises requires you to have an enormous tap of knowledge to feed off of.
PhD’s must be highly skilled too.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

What was your answer?

Why does almost everyone feel insecure about their profession when they are interacting with physician?

Since this person was my patient, I just ignored the comment and asked him what brought him to the clinic today. He seemed like the type of person who needed to have a one-up on everyone around him and couldn’t stand being in a vulnerable position (which he automatically was, as the patient). The insecurity was clear as day. I have a very good poker face.

 

[RocDoc12]

Should have asked them: “if it is so easy why didn’t you get in?”

Yes!🤗

 

[Splenda88]

The fact of the matter is most with a college degree hate physicians because they are stuck making 50-75k/yr while almost all of us make 250k+/yr. They think we are a bunch of overpaid arrogant fools.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

The fact of the matter is most with a college degree hate physicians because they are stuck making 50-75k/yr while almost all of us make 250k+/yr. They think we are a bunch of overpaid arrogant fools.

Mmm… that sounds nice…

 

[Splenda88]

Mmm… that sounds nice…

Not to me. I want to make 400k+/yr.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Not to me. I want to make 400k+/yr.

Also must be nice. Good luck.

 

[bluv1212]

People rag on things they know nothing about for no reason. Your friends clearly have little insight into medicine to reduce medicine in so few words. And they are in terrible company. "Google experts" fared terribly in 2020.

Is being a doctor overrated? The court of public opinion has not been good to physicians of late. In terms of time and finances, there are pursuits that are certainly better value.

But if you're pursuing medicine, you gotta have more. Otherwise, it is insane to invest a decade after college, for me more.

Frankly, few are qualified. Few make it in. Few have the stuff to see it through.

If you were accepted to medical school, you could've done any number of prestigious careers. I chose to be in rare company, and to have a shot at something remarkable. I make an impact on other people's lives every day.

In addition, being an MD doesn't mean you have to be solely a clinician. Consulting, Hospital administration, Research - these are all roles that you can jump ship for or tack on to your CV if you choose.

 

[NinjaBox]

Early in your career/education, the 'prestige' of your career path is important to you and you hold it dear and defend it.... Years down the line you will be much more focused on your family and your personal situation and you will see that you are crushing it bad compared to 98percent of society and instead of having the urge to 'defend' the elitism of your profession you may find the urge to downplay it to not have other people feel bad about how hard you are crushing it. In a few years you wont care at all about the naysayers, you will just love your financial situation and probably think of ways to 'give back'. I get your mindset and how that could hurt but its stupid, its like in elementary school when a kid made fun of your shoes, at the time it was devastating, now its just so dumb. Same thing doc

 

[fluorescent colors]

When I was in Podiatric Medical School, I had more free time than I did taking BS in chemical engineering by far. I was a Durlacher Honor Society for Exceptional Students during medical school. I was honor roll for chemical engineering. I would think a PhD in Chemical Engineering is more difficult than medical school too. Of course, I can only speak to my experience.

I agree with you I had a similar experience.

 

[Maskchamp]

As previously said, these weren't my friends, people I was meeting when at a dinner through friends, so that it a relief.

This is all wonderful, thanks so much everyone. We of course all get into debate/discussions about stuff at some point in our lives with anyone at anytime of course, but these guys actually were raising their voice to me and firmly firmly believed that medicine is very easy and overrated and saying only a few drugs, procedures, etc like I said at the beginning. I kind of sat there and took it as they were being quite aggressive, but hey. Everyone here made such great points, if this happens again in my life, I know what to say

Thanks a million guys!

 

[Forcewielder]

I remember in my anesthesia rotation the CRNAs saying that they're just as good as the physicians. But then I'd work with the physicians and they'd say there's no difference 95% if the time. It's on those ASA 4s and 5s where they differentiate themselves and hence the difference in pay and responsibility. Medicine is highly redundant in the specialties for the majority of patients and from the outside seems so simple. It's the outlier patient that separates the doctor from everyone else. Anyone, doctors included, that think being a doctor is easy is so arrogant they likely don't even notice their mistakes. This is the most humbling of vocations and will drive you nuts how even years in something can still surprise you.

 

[NY_Med]

Overrated compared to what?

I think MD is sort of placed on a pedestal in a way that leads a lot of docs to have inflated egos and cognitive dissonance around the challenges of being successful in other fields. Being a physician does not require the supernatural intellect that a lot of MDs seem to think it does. If you are reasonably bright, with average or better social skills and are willing to work tirelessly jumping through hoops then you can become a physician.

The path from degree to career success is both (1) extremely high-probability and (2) extremely linear for most docs even if they are not particularly good so long as they show up and do an acceptable job. I know quite a few people from med school who openly stated "P = MD" all the time and others in residency who did the bare minimum at every turn. These people are not the type that I would trust to take care of a family member. But guess what? In medicine you don't need validation from peers to make bank and have a straight shot to a $250k+ salary for 35+ years. PhDs need to be viewed as leaders in their field to achieve the stability and financial success of MDs. They also have better work life balance and a much less stressful working environment. If they end up as tenured faculty someplace it's one of the cushiest jobs in the world. They're just different careers.

I know my spouse's career stalled out for almost 2 years because she ended up on a team with a **** manager. This was early career and she still feels like she's digging out of that hole even 4-5 years later. That doesn't really happen in medicine. You might not love your PD, chief residents or your department chair but they really can't sideline you from growing in the same way that leaders/managers/PIs/other faculty in other fields can derail you. I have met a ton of docs who seem to think the key ingredient to being successful in every field is hard work because that is the central trait to success in medicine.

Personally, I went from thinking MD represented some combination of extremely high-intelligence, hard-work, compassion, and selflessness. Now I just think MD means willingness to work your ass off and put up with never-ending drudgery. The rest is idealistic nonsense.

TLDR: MD is more demanding than a lot of careers but also more straightforward. Other fields are usually less challenging day-to-day but the advancement path is almost always murkier.

My research professor during undergrad was a tenured faculty member who was working at my university for a little less than 20 years. We did the math out one day and he was making about ~75k per year to work ~25 hr/wk (with summer and winter breaks almost completely off)... Sounds like a pretty solid gig to me under the right circumstances🤣

 

[Ellatha]

The PhD path is more uncertain and the income is generally lower. That being said, the ceiling on achievement for a PhD is much higher than a MD; Eric Lander is a PhD at MIT with $45 million in disclosed assets; he was a major player in the Human Genome Project. Phil Sharp is another PhD at MIT who won the Nobel Prize for discovering split genes and founded a pharmaceutical company; his net worth is over $60 million. Bob Langer is yet another scientist at MIT who founded Moderna and holds over 1,400 patents; he has won over 220 major awards, holds over 30 honorary degrees, and has a net worth of $2.2 billion. You will not meet physicians who are this successful practicing clinical medicine.

 

[fullmetal]

Becoming a doctor is a hell of a grind. Yes, you can get a job as a PCP and live a pretty comfortable life and (most) of the time you know exactly what you are doing and the decision making isn’t difficult per-se, but you do have a lot of responsibility on your shoulders (sometimes people’s lives are literally in your hands). You see dozens of different medical issues each day ranging from the mundane to life threatening. You have to document and bill all your visits correctly, and then if you REALLY want to be a good doctor you need to keep reading in your spare time after you get home (sometimes late because you need to finish charting) to be up to date. There will ALWAYS be more to know, more to improve upon. And that’s just primary care. Emergency doctors deal with a ton of stress. Surgeons often long hours and there’s sometimes complications. Anesthesiologists usually have call running to intubate people and do epidurals in the middle of the night. None of it is easy. But it is a rewarding profession that pays really well which is why it’s so competitive to get into.

 

[deleted966164]

My research professor during undergrad was a tenured faculty member who was working at my university for a little less than 20 years. We did the math out one day and he was making about ~75k per year to work ~25 hr/wk (with summer and winter breaks almost completely off)... Sounds like a pretty solid gig to me under the right circumstances🤣

I’m having a hard time believing that they did good research and worked ~25 hr/wk.

 

[Anterior Chamber]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

How is it overrated?
Overrated in terms of income? Yes. You will probably not get super rich.
Easy in terms of preparation (MCAT, medical school, residency, fellowship)? No, very long.
Only 10 diseases and 5 drugs? That may be true of a nurse practitioner who believe they can treat simple things. But beware of things that you don't know that you don't know (which all MD's have to be careful for).

As far as 10 diseases, that is the reason there are specialties. Syphilis used to be difficult to treat so it became a specialty. That is no longer the case. EENT used to be a specialty but there was way too much to know so it split into ENT and ophthalmology. Whenever there is too much to know, a specialty develops.

As far as easy work, it depends on the definition. Digging a grave when it's 90 degrees, no shade, and no backhoe (only a shovel) is hard work. Even orthopedic surgeons do not have to expend that effort. Microsoft employees have the easiest because they are just using a keyboard.

As far as mentally taxing work because of the unknown, it varies by specialty. Some diseases have a few common presentations and where diagnosis is easy, others are not like that.

How about professional baseball players? Just hit a home run, hit the ball very far. Ha ha, if that is so easy, you can sign up for the Yankees or Dodgers!

 

[qh99]

Ultimately- every profession is overrated. Every profession is a task that can be done. As for the PhDs, and I had considered PhD (or MD/PhD at one point).. it is the most rigorous discipline in focusing on a speck of detail that ultimately is a very small, very very small part of a much more complex thing. I mean.. it is what it is. Compared to a PhD, the clinical realm is more practical, fraught with greater risk and reward and one is able to see the outcome of work on a day in day out basis. But in Medicine itself, almost every field, surgical especially, is easily mastered, it’s physical stuff. If Medicine was overrated, we wouldn’t have all the complexities ranging from errors to re-operations to tackling complex cases on a day in day out basis. The training and education that goes along with Medicine, is what makes it safe. Do you think Aviation companies would have more or less adverse outcomes with less training? Just because jets don’t fall out of the sky everyday, doesn’t mean flying one is easy.
However young Padowan.. the complexities of the clinical world you will enter are non-clinical. You will have to focus on excellence while being told.. what you do is valueless. That’s the reality you are seeing with your compadres and you will forever. Basically.. bud.. no one wants to acknowledge what you bring to the table. And you’ll have to live with that..

My advice to any medical student is.. look at the broad picture. All loans etc are a part of a big Ponzi scheme where they want you to be an awesome Physician and do what you love.. but they won’t want to hold up to their end of the deal.

Hospitals are bad news.. they are corporate vultures. Medical practices are owned by Health Insurance companies.. all these conflicts of interests and principles of ethics… apply differently to businesses vs Physicians.

Hopefully you’ve chosen something procedural.. interventional radiology, cardiology etc.. (not even general surgery)…

Choose your profession based on RVUs. I was in fact dumbfounded recently when a surgical sub specialty Resident started speaking about how much a procedure paid in an office setting vs a hospital setting.. dude like that.. is a decade ahead of others like him..

RVUs are what add “value” to what you bring to a hospital (get used to that question.. “what value do you add?”).. it’s basically a corporate monkey telling you he’s going to screw you but asking you why he shouldn’t screw you.

Your PhD friends are lucky they can do their jobs in a more enlightened fashion smoking a blunt.. with a chip on their shoulder..

I have a brother in law who’s a PhD.. so I know this rhetoric they’re not self-righteous ass-holes.. just sometimes a bit narrow focused.. just like the work they do.. a narrow yet integral part of a complex riddle.

No job is easy.. it can only be made easy by education, exposure and a desire to improve. All these .. are becoming overshadowed by Business.. a phenomenon that will take Medicine a while to recover from in order to reach the next levels of excellence.. because the vigor is being sucked out of most Doctors.

Welcome.. btw.

Oh.. as for difficult jobs.. it’s my opinion that learning the financial markets, equity analysis, derivatives, options and futures.. I mean the list is never ending and ever growing.. now there’s a field that is eons ahead (tax laws apply differently to them), they’re always ahead of the game.. assuming you want to and are able to master it at will.. And in an increasingly Nihilistic society.. you can wreak absolute havoc, legally, reap rewards, donate some of it to buy yourself and your enterprise a good name, buy Political gif will (not towards all just you).. and enjoy the absurdity of the game..

You do that field for ten years or so if you can excel at it.. and you can basically retire into starting Medicine as a hobby.. I mean in the not too distant future.. Medicine will be a hobby of the Rich.. because the lures of it will dwindle (not just financial but the independence aspect of it, for Physicians.. if you’re a Mid-Level future is bright).

As an incoming MS1, I appreciate you taking the time to expose me to so many issues I never imagined. Right now, I'm still feeling very optimistic, but I will definitely bookmark this thread to look back on as reality checks me in the future

 

[nimbus]

I care far more about healthcare access and costs for patients than I do about bargaining power for physicians.

Is there any correlation between those things? In the current climate they seem completely decoupled.

 

[nimbus]

Ultimately- every profession is overrated. Every profession is a task that can be done. As for the PhDs, and I had considered PhD (or MD/PhD at one point).. it is the most rigorous discipline in focusing on a speck of detail that ultimately is a very small, very very small part of a much more complex thing. I mean.. it is what it is. Compared to a PhD, the clinical realm is more practical, fraught with greater risk and reward and one is able to see the outcome of work on a day in day out basis. But in Medicine itself, almost every field, surgical especially, is easily mastered, it’s physical stuff. If Medicine was overrated, we wouldn’t have all the complexities ranging from errors to re-operations to tackling complex cases on a day in day out basis. The training and education that goes along with Medicine, is what makes it safe. Do you think Aviation companies would have more or less adverse outcomes with less training? Just because jets don’t fall out of the sky everyday, doesn’t mean flying one is easy.
However young Padowan.. the complexities of the clinical world you will enter are non-clinical. You will have to focus on excellence while being told.. what you do is valueless. That’s the reality you are seeing with your compadres and you will forever. Basically.. bud.. no one wants to acknowledge what you bring to the table. And you’ll have to live with that..

My advice to any medical student is.. look at the broad picture. All loans etc are a part of a big Ponzi scheme where they want you to be an awesome Physician and do what you love.. but they won’t want to hold up to their end of the deal.

Hospitals are bad news.. they are corporate vultures. Medical practices are owned by Health Insurance companies.. all these conflicts of interests and principles of ethics… apply differently to businesses vs Physicians.

Hopefully you’ve chosen something procedural.. interventional radiology, cardiology etc.. (not even general surgery)…

Choose your profession based on RVUs. I was in fact dumbfounded recently when a surgical sub specialty Resident started speaking about how much a procedure paid in an office setting vs a hospital setting.. dude like that.. is a decade ahead of others like him..

RVUs are what add “value” to what you bring to a hospital (get used to that question.. “what value do you add?”).. it’s basically a corporate monkey telling you he’s going to screw you but asking you why he shouldn’t screw you.

Your PhD friends are lucky they can do their jobs in a more enlightened fashion smoking a blunt.. with a chip on their shoulder..

I have a brother in law who’s a PhD.. so I know this rhetoric they’re not self-righteous ass-holes.. just sometimes a bit narrow focused.. just like the work they do.. a narrow yet integral part of a complex riddle.

No job is easy.. it can only be made easy by education, exposure and a desire to improve. All these .. are becoming overshadowed by Business.. a phenomenon that will take Medicine a while to recover from in order to reach the next levels of excellence.. because the vigor is being sucked out of most Doctors.

Welcome.. btw.

Oh.. as for difficult jobs.. it’s my opinion that learning the financial markets, equity analysis, derivatives, options and futures.. I mean the list is never ending and ever growing.. now there’s a field that is eons ahead (tax laws apply differently to them), they’re always ahead of the game.. assuming you want to and are able to master it at will.. And in an increasingly Nihilistic society.. you can wreak absolute havoc, legally, reap rewards, donate some of it to buy yourself and your enterprise a good name, buy Political gif will (not towards all just you).. and enjoy the absurdity of the game..

You do that field for ten years or so if you can excel at it.. and you can basically retire into starting Medicine as a hobby.. I mean in the not too distant future.. Medicine will be a hobby of the Rich.. because the lures of it will dwindle (not just financial but the independence aspect of it, for Physicians.. if you’re a Mid-Level future is bright).

I guess you’ve never worked with bad surgeons. There is a wide spectrum of surgical talent out there. Most are competent. But for some, surgery is very difficult and never mastered even after decades.

 

[DOFOSHO]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

everyone's job is easy until you actually have to do it. with experience in residency and practice, when these people say stupid **** like this, you will respond with a special smirk and chuckle that will usually shut them up pretty quick.

 

[NY_Med]

I’m having a hard time believing that they did good research and worked ~25 hr/wk.

Taught a few classes. Had students collect his data for him through an independent study. published when he felt like it (Is still sitting on a goldmine of papers if he ever feels like it). He wasn't a part of cutthroat academia research (competing for funding and such) so he didn't care to. So to say the least... no he doesn't invest a crazy amount of time into his research, his research is pretty interesting stuff though if you are into human kinetics and biomechanics.