MD Being an MD is overrated?

[Maskchamp]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

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[ciestar]

LOL wow

 

[adc_needs_buff]

real talk, every profession has their own difficulties and challenges. thus no profession is “easiest”

 

[Lem0nz]

Anyone can teach a monkey to do surgery.

The part they left out is that it has to be one of those monkeys from planet of the apes flying freaking spaceships.

 

[Lucca]

ppl will rly just say whatever lol

there's not 5 lung diseases.....

there's 2. Obstructy-boi and compliance-itis.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

The bold explains it all: jealousy. Pure and simple.

PhD students have a much more uncertain path than we do. Med school is 4 years, residency is a defined time as well. Getting a PhD often times isn't.

When we graduate, we have to try to not break 200k/year (most fields make significantly more than that). They come out and often times struggle to break 6 figures.

We're the doctors that everyone knows about and values. Most people don't care about PhD doctors. If you say you're a doctor, it means physician unless proven otherwise.

Our job market for most fields is great. Depending on your degree and interest, not so much for lots of PhDs.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

 

[Chemist0157]

They really have no idea what they are talking about so I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

 

[Dormouse]

The bold explains it all: jealousy. Pure and simple.

PhD students have a much more uncertain path than we do. Med school is 4 years, residency is a defined time as well. Getting a PhD often times isn't.

When we graduate, we have to try to not break 200k/year (most fields make significantly more than that). They come out and often times struggle to break 6 figures.

We're the doctors that everyone knows about and values. Most people don't care about PhD doctors. If you say you're a doctor, it means physician unless proven otherwise.

Our job market for most fields is great. Depending on your degree and interest, not so much for lots of PhDs.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

Exactly this. MD-PhD student here and I encounter people like you described all too often. Smile and nod and move on...

 

[Tenk]

Should have asked them: “if it is so easy why didn’t you get in?”

 

[Bobblehead]

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master

They should be all good with Dr. Google in that case. There's not that many possible combinations that can arise out of that finite set.

 

[7331poas]

Real talk, its not that hard. In fact pretty easy path to 500k. Much easier than any other profession in the United States. Put your head down, do your anki cards, kiss ass on rotations. Match into rads or something. Put your head down, read images. Go home and collect your salary.

A PhD is unironically much more uncertain and requires different thinking.

 

[Kardio]

Lol. OP, these kind of conversations aren’t even worth engaging in.

 

[The kitchen sink]

What was the person who said that pulmonology has 10 diseases and 5 drugs, PhD in? Just curious. It’s clear that these people don’t have the slightest idea of the background it takes to become a physician, whether it be primary care or subspecialty.

 

[operaman]

Actually it is very easy to be a crappy doctor. It’s so easy even an NP can do it!

Being a good one is an entirely different matter.

Judging by how many nitwits I know with PhDs, that degree isn’t rocket science either.

 

[Dral]

Bias. No big deal. They may be thinking a lot about the whole admissions process. I got a PhD before medical school. While formulating experiments, writing them up, and defending a thesis is stressful/not easy, med school is a much longer drawn out process (that is MUCH more difficult to gain access to to begin with).


Excluding course exams:
PhDs pretty much have to take GRE and then some type of candidacy exam (whether oral, written or both). Then they/we defend a thesis.

MDs have to take MCAT, Step I, Step II (not CS anymore at least), Step III, in service every year of residency, Board exam...and possible specialty exam/board exam. That also excludes shelf exams if you consider them 'class' exams.

They may be basing their opinions off of all the things MDs have to go through to get to where they are. There is something to PhDs having to struggle a lot after the PostDoc years to get a job/tenure/maintain a lab and grants.

While it's good to try to correct opinions that you know are way off based on your experiences, as others have pointed out, you're likely not going to change any of their minds due to their bias. They have it in their minds that PhD work takes more thought input to formulate and solve unknown scientific problems. They have not experienced the day to day it takes to solve the problem of a sick patient that nobody can seem to figure out. Both processes use problem solving and are subjected to certain constraints.

Again, they could very well have degree envy...you'll never change that.

I remember there was a faculty member at my undergrad that people warned against getting a letter from because he was apparently butt hurt that he wasn't able to get into med school back in the day.

 

[Maskchamp]

What was the person who said that pulmonology has 10 diseases and 5 drugs, PhD in? Just curious. It’s clear that these people don’t have the slightest idea of the background it takes to become a physician, whether it be primary care or subspecialty.

International public health

 

[Maskchamp]

I'm not sure if they were saying that because they have PhDs, maybe they were, but I mean they are educated. But their main point was that it's just a profession that takes practice and that literally anyone, and anyone can do it. Bronchoscopy is very simple, just put the tube down, intubation once you've done it a 100 times, it's not a problem. You'll see the same group of diseases over and over so it doesn't take much brain power. You don't know something, you jus get a consult. These are exact words they were using.

I was afraid that they may have a point. I definitely do not think so, but maybe. I don't know, bah. I was just disappointed to hear it, that's all. Considering what doctors did during Covid, etc. I think 'overrated' is a very unfair and bad term for docs.

 

[The kitchen sink]

I'm not sure if they were saying that because they have PhDs, maybe they were, but I mean they are educated. But their main point was that it's just a profession that takes practice and that literally anyone, and anyone can do it. Bronchoscopy is very simple, just put the tube down, intubation once you've done it a 100 times, it's not a problem. You'll see the same group of diseases over and over so it doesn't take much brain power. You don't know something, you jus get a consult. These are exact words they were using.

I was afraid that they may have a point. I definitely do not think so, but maybe. I don't know, bah. I was just disappointed to hear it, that's all. Considering what doctors did during Covid, etc. I think 'overrated' is a very unfair and bad term for docs.

Just like any piece of information you encounter, always look at the source and their credentials. I would trust an MD/PhD rather than a PhD in International health that’s never practiced a day of medicine in their lives. It does really reek of jealously imo.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I think it the future of medical profession,in large part,hinges on whether certain actors can realize their goal of transforming American healthcare into a european/canadian based system.

 

[Lem0nz]

I'm not sure if they were saying that because they have PhDs, maybe they were, but I mean they are educated. But their main point was that it's just a profession that takes practice and that literally anyone, and anyone can do it. Bronchoscopy is very simple, just put the tube down, intubation once you've done it a 100 times, it's not a problem. You'll see the same group of diseases over and over so it doesn't take much brain power. You don't know something, you jus get a consult. These are exact words they were using.

I was afraid that they may have a point. I definitely do not think so, but maybe. I don't know, bah. I was just disappointed to hear it, that's all. Considering what doctors did during Covid, etc. I think 'overrated' is a very unfair and bad term for docs.

The first time you see someone getting extubated for a minor ditzel surgery that’s 20 and supremely healthy and then they bronchospasm and you’re putting betadine on their neck praying the paralytic will kick in fast enough you’ll realize how much bull**** they spewed at you.

The first time you’re trying to bronch someone with a white out lung and you can’t get their sats higher than 70 you’ll realize how much bull**** they spewed at you.

The first time you see a tiny missed lung nodule from a rando CXR that turned into lung cancer that’s now metastatic two years later you’ll realize how much bull**** even this thread spewed at you with “real talk rads is easy”.

The only thing easy about medicine is that it’s easy to get complacent and let your guard down and kill someone unintentionally.

Your PhD friends can take a hike.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Most overrated EVAR!!!1111!!!eleven!111

Seriously though, why would anyone care what person "X" thinks? Good lawd.

 

[Goro]

I have a PhD and have nothing but the highest respect and pride in all of you. I firmly believe what others have mentioned...those negative comments are coming from ignorance and jealousy.

I was pre-med for many 10 minutes and thank Gawd I got out of it! That's because med school would have done this to me:

 

[Dral]

Another thing they are not considering is the mental portion of the job of being directly responsible for the lives/health of other humans.

 

[Nugester]

Fixed for ya.

Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still JACK ****.

Someone sounds a little salty, no? Possibly a person that wanted to go to medical school at some point in their life?

Some people are very insecure. Reminds me of my professor's PowerPoints from M1; Dr. XxXxXxX, PhD. Like is that really necessary lol.

 

[Bobblehead]

I'm not sure if they were saying that because they have PhDs, maybe they were, but I mean they are educated. But their main point was that it's just a profession that takes practice and that literally anyone, and anyone can do it. Bronchoscopy is very simple, just put the tube down, intubation once you've done it a 100 times, it's not a problem. You'll see the same group of diseases over and over so it doesn't take much brain power. You don't know something, you jus get a consult. These are exact words they were using.

I was afraid that they may have a point. I definitely do not think so, but maybe. I don't know, bah. I was just disappointed to hear it, that's all. Considering what doctors did during Covid, etc. I think 'overrated' is a very unfair and bad term for docs.

At the risk of feeding the trolls, but this is a common refrain that's been used to justify everything from why physicians can be replaced by less trained practitioners to someone needing to win an argument over the coffee table/on the internet.

The first thing you should consider is if there is a legitimate question or concern being raised or if that person has already made up their mind (right or wrong) or whether they are just intending to "stir the pot" so to speak.

For individuals with genuine questions or concerns you can walk them through the process whereby bronchoscopy is generally the last step in a long sequence of decisions on whether something diagnostically or therapeutically can be achieved. Most of the new fellows that have never bronched before do fine after a few tries. It's not a hard instrument to learn compared to a modern gaming controller. Some people don't have the spatial recognition and that's either addressed through repeated practice or they simply don't end up doing a lot of procedures later on in their careers. There's some nuance between the various types of scopes including the flexion that can be achieved with a diagnostic vs. therapeutic bronchoscope and the visualization of an EBUS bronchoscope (Fuji vs. Olympus you say?) compared to a standard white light bronchoscope. And again there's some technique with respect to positioning instruments into more distal airways while the patient is breathing. None of these technical skills are terribly hard to learn although mastery will take more than a few procedures.

But the lack of insight into how you got to the point where you're putting a brush into a 4th order bronchus to attempt a blind brushing for growing 3cm pulmonary nodule is what generally escapes this discussion because most people asking these types of questions aren't interested in that level of detail.

Do you want to refer for IR guided biopsy because it's close enough to the pleura that their pneumothorax risk is reasonable or due to severe bullous disease you're still better off with navigation and radial EBUS (or if you're super lucky and well resourced the robotic bronchoscopy systems). Will they tolerate general anesthesia? Do you even have general anesthesia available or will you need to do this yourself with a deep level of conscious sedation while keeping in mind that your topical anesthetic may very well run out before you complete your navigation and sampling? Maybe you shouldn't even be sampling that growing nodule because it's PET avid, they're poor substrate but still want something done so you refer for empiric SBRT without a tissue diagnosis because nothing else lights up on PET thereby skipping the bronch entirely.

Again, it is generally inadvisable to engage in these types of discussions either in person or on the internet because the party posing the question isn't interested in a well thought out reply that takes more characters than a tweet. That's also the seeming fate of modern medicine but I can assure you there's enough of the population that prefers a well-trained, well educated physician that can walk them through the complexities of modern medicine that your actual skill holding the bronchoscope just has to be adequate to do well in your career.

 

[mwsapphire]

Bias. No big deal. They may be thinking a lot about the whole admissions process. I got a PhD before medical school. While formulating experiments, writing them up, and defending a thesis is stressful/not easy, med school is a much longer drawn out process (that is MUCH more difficult to gain access to to begin with).


Excluding course exams:
PhDs pretty much have to take GRE and then some type of candidacy exam (whether oral, written or both). Then they/we defend a thesis.

MDs have to take MCAT, Step I, Step II (not CS anymore at least), Step III, in service every year of residency, Board exam...and possible specialty exam/board exam. That also excludes shelf exams if you consider them 'class' exams.

They may be basing their opinions off of all the things MDs have to go through to get to where they are. There is something to PhDs having to struggle a lot after the PostDoc years to get a job/tenure/maintain a lab and grants.

While it's good to try to correct opinions that you know are way off based on your experiences, as others have pointed out, you're likely not going to change any of their minds due to their bias. They have it in their minds that PhD work takes more thought input to formulate and solve unknown scientific problems. They have not experienced the day to day it takes to solve the problem of a sick patient that nobody can seem to figure out. Both processes use problem solving and are subjected to certain constraints.

Again, they could very well have degree envy...you'll never change that.

I remember there was a faculty member at my undergrad that people warned against getting a letter from because he was apparently butt hurt that he wasn't able to get into med school back in the day.

That last part is actually wicked sad.

 

[yeasports]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

M4 (has time to kill): argues with PhD gets angry--------->resident (no time/tired) doesn't argue with PhD but angry----------------------->new attending avoids PhD (knows this is a waste of time) not angry------------------------------------> seasoned attending doesn't argue but agrees (with much sarcasm) and not angry at all ie:
PhD: there are 10 diseases and 5 drugs in pulm
M.D. LOL you are wrong there are only 2 diseases in plum.
PhD: really, I knew it
M.D. Yes 1. human breathe, 2. human no breathe, and I wear this thing around my neck to tell the difference.
Before PhD can talk MD puts stethoscope on their chest and says ahhhh you are number 1, I think.

 

[Bonne Nuit]

A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep.

 

[Lawpy]

The real winners are the MBAs/MHAs running the hospitals and practices.

 

[hohxil_fr]

Interesting. Just curious, are your friends born and raised in some Asian countries? I got a fun fact that back in my home in Asia, middle-school graduates can go to those high-school level medical schools and become fully-licensed physicians when their friends graduate from high school and go to college. Therefore, my family always don't understand why I want to apply to med school after obtaining a PhD degree.

 

[Dantes]

Actually it is very easy to be a crappy doctor. It’s so easy even an NP can do it!

Being a good one is an entirely different matter.

Judging by how many nitwits I know with PhDs, that degree isn’t rocket science either.

What about a PhD in rocket science

 

[operaman]

What about a PhD in rocket science

Anyone with a PhD in rocket science wouldn’t say something so stupid to begin with.

 

[Maskchamp]

Interesting. Just curious, are your friends born and raised in some Asian countries? I got a fun fact that back in my home in Asia, middle-school graduates can go to those high-school level medical schools and become fully-licensed physicians when their friends graduate from high school and go to college. Therefore, my family always don't understand why I want to apply to med school after obtaining a PhD degree.

Americans. And these weren't my friends, people I was meeting when at a dinner through friends.

 

[Ludwig2000]

“lol nice man, come by and help me out with a lap-chole some time”

then wink at his gf

 

[SurfingDoctor]

The real winners are the MBAs/MHAs running the hospitals and practices.

Oh, you mean the people that everyone legitimately hates.

 

[HuskyMD Emeritus]

Almost anyone can search Google, read Up to Date, NEJM, Harrison's, Murray and Nadel, etc etc. The doctors, especially those who have been in practice, have clinical experience, are the ones who can apply that knowledge to the patient in front of him or her; and every patient is different. I can't number the times patients and their families (including family members who are "in the medical field") bring stuff from searching on-line about their problem and the information they got have no relevance to them. We are the ones with clinical judgment. As @Bobblehead discussed, bronchoscopy is an easy procedure, but choosing the right patient, knowing what you are looking at, knowing what to do when the patient becomes unstable, that's what being a doctor is about.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

Lmao it’s just jealousy. I bet you these are the same people who run around calling themselves “doctors” in non-academic settings, then get pissed when people get confused because they’re not physicians. It reminds me of the lawyer (not a phd like these, but similar attitude) who, as a patient, started his first visit with me with “I have a juris doctorate, so I’m a doctor too.” (And he was serious, not joking)

 

[IMG69]

10 diseases is still better than spending 5 years on a single protein

 

[calivianya]

Med students can be prone to these kinds of fallacies sometimes, too. I made this mistake once.

While I did see a fair amount of other kinds of things on my surgery rotations, one thing I saw a lot of during my 8 weeks on general surgery was lap choles. Both of my preceptors had three surgery days per week, and I can only remember maybe one day, maybe 2, out of 24 total OR days where I didn’t see at least one lap chole - most days we had at least two or three. My high score was 9 lap choles in one day. I think it’s reasonable to say the low end of the number I assisted with was well over 100.

I thought, for a small period of time, that lap choles were so routine that I could probably do one successfully myself. I would have thought nearly anyone could do it after assisting with as many as I had.

Then we had one go bad. 30s ish female, said she’d had some biliary colic-type symptoms on and off for years, but it finally turned awful that week. We got in there, and the area was so full of scar tissue I had absolutely no idea what I was looking at for the vast majority of the surgery.

My preceptor spent over two hours attempting to separate the gallbladder and vessels out laparoscopically before he converted it to an open procedure, and he still ended up leaving a tiny gallbladder remnant behind at the end because everything was basically cemented to the common bile duct and even with painstakingly careful, slow blunt dissection, he never got a clear window to clamp the cystic duct or the cystic artery.

I never assumed I could do something again just because I’d seen it a whole bunch of times. The reason physicians get the big bucks is not because they can do simple, uncomplicated procedures, even if those are 99% of what they do.

 

[OldSchoolMD1]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

“Being overrated” - while I diss agree, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and it may be considered relative.
“Incredibly easy” - I’m not sure where a comment like that comes from. Let’s be honest, if it were so, wouldn’t many people opt for an “incredibly easy” profession that is associated with a generous compensation? Yes. Is that the case? No. Thus, the burden of proof mats in them to make such a statement.

it’s similar to being a pilot. It may seem ‘simple/easy’ because he/she does it daily, several times a week without complications, but to say it’s easy and an overrated profession is naive. It’s what it took to get there (time, effort, discipline, success, etc.), how to handle the complications/problems when everything does not go right, to have the responsibility of people’s health/lives, etc. that elevates it from a seemingly simpleton profession.
I’m not sure what originated such a statement, but without context, it sounds ignorant.

 

[voodoomagic]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

Ultimately- every profession is overrated. Every profession is a task that can be done. As for the PhDs, and I had considered PhD (or MD/PhD at one point).. it is the most rigorous discipline in focusing on a speck of detail that ultimately is a very small, very very small part of a much more complex thing. I mean.. it is what it is. Compared to a PhD, the clinical realm is more practical, fraught with greater risk and reward and one is able to see the outcome of work on a day in day out basis. But in Medicine itself, almost every field, surgical especially, is easily mastered, it’s physical stuff. If Medicine was overrated, we wouldn’t have all the complexities ranging from errors to re-operations to tackling complex cases on a day in day out basis. The training and education that goes along with Medicine, is what makes it safe. Do you think Aviation companies would have more or less adverse outcomes with less training? Just because jets don’t fall out of the sky everyday, doesn’t mean flying one is easy.
However young Padowan.. the complexities of the clinical world you will enter are non-clinical. You will have to focus on excellence while being told.. what you do is valueless. That’s the reality you are seeing with your compadres and you will forever. Basically.. bud.. no one wants to acknowledge what you bring to the table. And you’ll have to live with that..

My advice to any medical student is.. look at the broad picture. All loans etc are a part of a big Ponzi scheme where they want you to be an awesome Physician and do what you love.. but they won’t want to hold up to their end of the deal.

Hospitals are bad news.. they are corporate vultures. Medical practices are owned by Health Insurance companies.. all these conflicts of interests and principles of ethics… apply differently to businesses vs Physicians.

Hopefully you’ve chosen something procedural.. interventional radiology, cardiology etc.. (not even general surgery)…

Choose your profession based on RVUs. I was in fact dumbfounded recently when a surgical sub specialty Resident started speaking about how much a procedure paid in an office setting vs a hospital setting.. dude like that.. is a decade ahead of others like him..

RVUs are what add “value” to what you bring to a hospital (get used to that question.. “what value do you add?”).. it’s basically a corporate monkey telling you he’s going to screw you but asking you why he shouldn’t screw you.

Your PhD friends are lucky they can do their jobs in a more enlightened fashion smoking a blunt.. with a chip on their shoulder..

I have a brother in law who’s a PhD.. so I know this rhetoric they’re not self-righteous ass-holes.. just sometimes a bit narrow focused.. just like the work they do.. a narrow yet integral part of a complex riddle.

No job is easy.. it can only be made easy by education, exposure and a desire to improve. All these .. are becoming overshadowed by Business.. a phenomenon that will take Medicine a while to recover from in order to reach the next levels of excellence.. because the vigor is being sucked out of most Doctors.

Welcome.. btw.

Oh.. as for difficult jobs.. it’s my opinion that learning the financial markets, equity analysis, derivatives, options and futures.. I mean the list is never ending and ever growing.. now there’s a field that is eons ahead (tax laws apply differently to them), they’re always ahead of the game.. assuming you want to and are able to master it at will.. And in an increasingly Nihilistic society.. you can wreak absolute havoc, legally, reap rewards, donate some of it to buy yourself and your enterprise a good name, buy Political gif will (not towards all just you).. and enjoy the absurdity of the game..

You do that field for ten years or so if you can excel at it.. and you can basically retire into starting Medicine as a hobby.. I mean in the not too distant future.. Medicine will be a hobby of the Rich.. because the lures of it will dwindle (not just financial but the independence aspect of it, for Physicians.. if you’re a Mid-Level future is bright).

 

[iloveliverpath]

What they don’t realize is the responsibility of taking decisions as being a doctor are. I think as for the learning medicine as a skill, it may not be the most difficult in the world but how that affects someone else’s life sure is more than the technical part of being a physician. As a pathologist, I know so many PhD’s who do work pretty much the same as MD but they do feel the difference as how people look at their work. They do lack the experience of clinical medicine. They do get paid less sometimes for essentially similar work. But that’s how it is.

 

[FirstGenerationDocRNtoMD]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

They don't know what they don't know.

 

[PreMedLife210]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

Lol no

 

[Trefoil]

In terms of value added, absolutely not. PhD work is heterogenous. My wife has a PhD; therefore, I can tell you that getting one makes you overqualified for most jobs and under qualified for everything else. Finding work after one is more about marketing skills you obtained from your program, which again depends on the type of PhD you have. If you work in academia, you will toil away for years with poor pay without guaranteed tenure. If you work in industry you will come out making less than you would have if you had been working the whole time.

The work itself is a mixture of tedium and creativity. It’s tilted highly to the tedium side as the creativity of coming up with the research project takes far less time than gathering and analyzing the data. Gathering data can be done by pretty much anyone (running tests in a lab), but analyzing data does require knowledge and problem solving.

The actual info generated from all of this may or may not be useful. Or it might be extremely useful, but ultimately ignored because it’s not info that will get a journal citations…citations for journals are a lot like RVU’s for hospitals.

MD work can be routine, but most of the day to day joy and labor is people. Interestingly, there is a high cognitive and emotional demand in labor that involves interacting with people. Interacting with people is also something automation isn’t very good at; however, automation is getting much better at most other activities.

Finally, not everyone gets better at surgery with practice. Most people do, but it’s kind of like an athletic sport. There is a certain amount of ability that you start with and most people who like surgery can get to an acceptable level, but that is a far cry from everyone. Also you have to have a higher emotional stability that can be difficult to learn under pressure.

Anyway, it sounds like they have enough info to think they know something. This cognitive error is also how physicians end up making bad investment choices, so that’s something to ruminate on.

 

[babagandu2424]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

These convos aren’t worth entertaining.

I’ve read some of the replies here, and it’s interesting that a lot of folk here are comparing PhDs to MDs, emphasizing how “lower” of a degree it is. As a non-MD advanced degree student, it makes me laugh at how ignorant a lot of MD holders are. You are correct in saying the PhD path is undefined - it is extremely undefined. Though, defining a path for yourself puts you right up there with any other MDs in any non-clinical roles. Look to industry, biopharma finance, consulting, etc., and the ROI for a PhD is much higher.

Medicine is great, but it’s changing. It’s comical to say an MDs projected comp. in traditional clinical roles are the best of the best. I respect MDs, but getting an MD and going residency is a **** path if you want to make money. Case in point, go look at Stanford meds graduating class of recent years and note how many went on to do residency vs. those that went other non-clinician routes. From a ROI standpoint, they win.

Btw, I have more and more med school friends asking about finance/consulting gigs who want to forgo residency entirely. A quick LinkedIn search can also show how many, as of recently, are seeing how clinical medicine is changing for the worse. It’s the system, but way better opps outside of clinical.

 

[Localnative]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

Being a doctor is cake. Punch the time clock and collect the benji-greens.

At least that’s what my wife says. Of course, we have 4 young kids ages 8 and under that she takes care of full time while I play with fancy stainless steel instruments and cool tech while listening to Bob Seger, so I won’t argue with her.

 

[HappyS5]

Hi everyone. I just got into quite a big argument/debate in person with a few people and they said that being a doctor is the most overrated profession there is, and incredibly easy, no matter what specialty. They were being very serious.

They were telling me that for instance pulmonology has only 10 diseases and 5 drugs to master, colonoscopies can be done by anybody in the hospital, surgery just takes practice. Keep in mind, these were very educated people, all Phd and work in the health or research sectors so they know a thing or two, but still. I wanted to know some thoughts from other practicing MD physicians, any specialty. As a student in my last year of med school, I completely disagree, but nonetheless it was quite disappointing to hear this.

Let me know your honest thoughts, preferably from practicing physicians; 1st year residents all the way to chiefs. Ever hear this before?

Thanks

When I was in Podiatric Medical School, I had more free time than I did taking BS in chemical engineering by far. I was a Durlacher Honor Society for Exceptional Students during medical school. I was honor roll for chemical engineering. I would think a PhD in Chemical Engineering is more difficult than medical school too. Of course, I can only speak to my experience.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

When I was in Podiatric Medical School, I had more free time than I did taking BS in chemical engineering by far. I was a Durlacher Honor Society Exceptional Student Society during medical school. I was honor roll for chemical engineering. I would think a PhD in Chemical Engineering is more difficult than medical school too.

I didn’t do a PhD in chemical engineering, but I did my undergrad in math and did some grad work. It definitely was more difficult in some ways than anything I did in preclinical medical school. But med school is harder in different ways, and my third year has been way more stressful and challenging than anything I did in math. Maybe on an individual level, doing grad work in math is more difficult than learning about gallbladder disease, but when you put it all together into clinical medicine, it is definitely a more difficult path.

 

[fathergoat]

Lol, I find it funny that OP came here and asked a bunch of MDs to validate his opinions after getting butt hurt in an argument. TLDR, both paths are hard and have their challenges. Ours just pays better because society has deemed it so, and we tangibly change people's lives. Theirs, I would argue, is actually harder. There is no set path to make clinical discoveries and change people's lives. They will fail hundreds of times just to succeed once and just maybe change the world. I'm very happy in medicine, and I would not do what they do.