Am I on track to matching Diagnostic Radiology?

[FutureDoctor5000]

Wait so you're speculating that DOs have higher chance of matching at top of their list for IM? Thats reassuring! Hope that ends up as the case. Your logic makes sense

Not sure about IM? But I would think across all specialties as there is interview hoarding in all specialties. The top MD/DO's are holding on to like 40% of the invites or something.

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[Ho0v-man]

Wait so you're speculating that DOs have higher chance of matching at top of their list for IM? Thats reassuring! Hope that ends up as the case. Your logic makes sense

Yeah that’s my guess. The trade off being that the overall list you’re submitting would have been better if interviews were in-person.

Of course, apply some common sense. If your top program is Hopkins then yeah, this probably doesn’t apply. But if your top program is a solid state university or a “top” program in a not so desirable locale *cough*CCF*cough*, then it likely holds up.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Yeah that’s my guess. The trade off being that the overall list you’re submitting would have been better if interviews were in-person.

Of course, apply some common sense. If your top program is Hopkins then yeah, this probably doesn’t apply. But if your top program is a solid state university or a “top” program in a not so desirable locale *cough*CCF*cough*, then it likely holds up.

I would take Cleveland over like saint louis, Milwaukee and even Baltimore any day 😉

 

[Deecee2DO]

I would take Cleveland over like saint louis, Milwaukee and even Baltimore any day 😉

Wow really? lol STL is sick I lived there for 4 years. Some of best years of my life

 

[Deecee2DO]

Yeah that’s my guess. The trade off being that the overall list you’re submitting would have been better if interviews were in-person.

Of course, apply some common sense. If your top program is Hopkins then yeah, this probably doesn’t apply. But if your top program is a solid state university or a “top” program in a not so desirable locale *cough*CCF*cough*, then it likely holds up.

Lol makes sense. Hopefully Providence is a not-so-desirable location lol

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Wow really? lol STL is sick I lived there for 4 years. Some of best years of my life

Just haven't heard good stuff about STL

 

[Deecee2DO]

Just haven't heard good stuff about STL

Yeah i mean not everyone loves it! it depends what you are looking for but its really pretty awesome imo. Food is amazing especially the bbq, plenty of places to go out, great sports scene, and some really nice areas. COL isnt bad either

 

[spes93]

Yeah that’s my guess. The trade off being that the overall list you’re submitting would have been better if interviews were in-person.

Of course, apply some common sense. If your top program is Hopkins then yeah, this probably doesn’t apply. But if your top program is a solid state university or a “top” program in a not so desirable locale *cough*CCF*cough*, then it likely holds up.

according to another commenter here, apparently I could get an IV to a top 10 program (pretty sure it's in my area). The prospect of matching there is amazing, would you say your theory applies to top 10 programs +/- regional connections but in desirable area?

 

[Ho0v-man]

Depends on what you consider “top 10”. But yeah, if it’s a “top” program that interviews DOs, then yes.

 

[IRattending2021]

Rad is tough for DO this year. I had this friend who hated DOs, got into flame war in SDN’s hay day, kept registering alt accounts for years and keep getting banned.

Well, looks like SDN traffic is down and this guy ended up APD somewhere. I don’t see any DOs in his program. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Rad is tough for DO this year. I had this friend who hated DOs, got into flame war in SDN’s hay day, kept registering alt accounts for years and keep getting banned.

Well, looks like SDN traffic is down and this guy ended up APD somewhere. I don’t see any DOs in his program. 🤷‍♂️

Dude sounds like a douche.

Rough year for DOs, but 3 (including me) matched solid mid to mid-high ranked academic programs at my school.

 

[IRattending2021]

Dude sounds like a douche.

Rough year for DOs, but 3 (including me) matched solid mid to mid-high ranked academic programs at my school.

Congrats! My residency has been matching DOs since 2015. I work in one of the top 5 metro now in the west coast and as far as I can tell our geographic region never matched DOs. I would like to change that but I am not in residency selection. I think there is still a lot of stigma depends on location.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Congrats! My residency has been matching DOs since 2015. I work in one of the top 5 metro now in the west coast and as far as I can tell our geographic region never matched DOs. I would like to change that but I am not in residency selection. I think there is still a lot of stigma depends on location.

Yeah, this seems to be true given my application experience. I did get a few top level invites but they were all programs that had recently accepted their first DO.

It just doesn’t make sense to me that a DO with high board scores, research, many accolades, lots of ECs, etc would get passed up simply because of their letters. Lots of my classmates in DO school were simply people who figured out what they needed to do later in life and will go on to make fantastic physicians. I struggled in undergrad after having skated by in high school without any real study skills/discipline. I figured it out about half way through undergrad but the damage was done. I did well on the MCAT, and struggled but found my way into a DO school. Does this background make me apt to be a significantly worse resident or physician than someone who had better guidance/figured it out younger and went to an MD school? I’d like to think not.

 

[h23]

should I be worried as someone who's about to go to med school this upcoming fall and is hoping to match DR when it's time for the match? Not sure what I should do to be competitive, especially if I might be geographically restricted in terms of where I wanna match.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

should I be worried as someone who's about to go to med school this upcoming fall and is hoping to match DR when it's time for the match? Not sure what I should do to be competitive, especially if I might be geographically restricted in terms of where I wanna match.

Yes, anyone who is applying to anything remotely competitive and is geographically restricted should be worried and have a back up plan.

 

[Zendo]

Would anyone kindly share their thoughts on the backup options for not matching Radiology?

From what I understand

1) Match prelim only, do research/network during the year and re-apply to Radiology. Do you only apply to physician-only R1 spots? Would you also have a gap year between the prelim and R1? If you don't match Rads for a second time, can you just complete an IM/FM residency in 2 years with the prelim counting as the first year?

2) Delay graduation if possible, research/network during the year, and apply again as a senior. Would chances be higher this way compared to the first option? Is a red flag still present because of not matching the first time?

3) Dual apply to community IM or FM. This option would be the least painful as you can still move on without losing time, correct? The downside would of course be not doing radiology at all and also there's not much chance of landing strong IM fellowships through this route, is that right?

4) SOAP into whatever is available. If couples matching is this the best chance to ensure you can be near your SO if they match and you don't?

Thank you, trying to understand as much as possible about backup options and the pros/cons/chances/timelines of each. Of course this would be all the more complicated if couples matching lol.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Would anyone kindly share their thoughts on the backup options for not matching Radiology?

From what I understand

1) Match prelim only, do research/network during the year and re-apply to Radiology. Do you only apply to physician-only R1 spots? Would you also have a gap year between the prelim and R1? If you don't match Rads for a second time, can you just complete an IM/FM residency in 2 years with the prelim counting as the first year?

2) Delay graduation if possible, research/network during the year, and apply again as a senior. Would chances be higher this way compared to the first option? Is a red flag still present because of not matching the first time?

3) Dual apply to community IM or FM. This option would be the least painful as you can still move on without losing time, correct? The downside would of course be not doing radiology at all and also there's not much chance of landing strong IM fellowships through this route, is that right?

4) SOAP into whatever is available. If couples matching is this the best chance to ensure you can be near your SO if they match and you don't?

Thank you, trying to understand as much as possible about backup options and the pros/cons/chances/timelines of each. Of course this would be all the more complicated if couples matching lol.

1). You could reapply to R1 as well as the R2 physician only spots. I believe the latter are more competitive. If you do a real prelim and not a TY, it should count. Might be an issue for continuing for FM with the necessary peds/ob exposure. But you’d still have to have an open spot afterwards.

2) not sure which is more favorable. There’s an AMA on the radiology forum by a former PD who might be able to answer that.

3). This is what I would do. Still good training and fellowship options to be had at some of these community programs.

4). Should not be a plan. There’s been <5 spots the past couple years and you’ll be competing with desperate rads/surgical sub gunners from all over the country for a spot. There’s zero way to really control your options in the soap so banking on being able to choose location even in the same time zone is not a good idea.

 

[Zendo]

1). You could reapply to R1 as well as the R2 physician only spots. I believe the latter are more competitive. If you do a real prelim and not a TY, it should count. Might be an issue for continuing for FM with the necessary peds/ob exposure. But you’d still have to have an open spot afterwards.

2) not sure which is more favorable. There’s an AMA on the radiology forum by a former PD who might be able to answer that.

3). This is what I would do. Still good training and fellowship options to be had at some of these community programs.

4). Should not be a plan. There’s been <5 spots the past couple years and you’ll be competing with desperate rads/surgical sub gunners from all over the country for a spot. There’s zero way to really control your options in the soap so banking on being able to choose location even in the same time zone is not a good idea.

Thanks! I would go with 3 as well. Lots of silver linings in that path.

For 4 I meant SOAPing into FM or community IM, sorry if that wasn't clear. For FM/IM would there be more flexibility in landing near your SO? Ranking combos would be preferable but there's a limit I believe and that might be tough if applying very broadly.

Lastly, is SOAPing a mostly random process or does having a strong app (boards, LORs, research, etc) still matter? It would be comforting to know that effort in building a strong application isn't completely wasted if Rads or something else doesn't pan out and I just want to do FM or become a hospitalist and move on.

Really appreciate all your help.

 

[Ho0v-man]

PM’d. In short, no one should plan on SOAP if they are picky about any aspect of their training.

 

[djiboutiman]

3) Dual apply to community IM or FM. This option would be the least painful as you can still move on without losing time, correct? The downside would of course be not doing radiology at all and also there's not much chance of landing strong IM fellowships through this route, is that right?

Just a second year, but why not dual apply into Neuro or Pathology, instead of FM or IM? Neuro still gets some imaging training and could even sub-specialize in interventional neuroradiology (long route though). Pathology being pretty similar to radiology in terms of being a diagnostic specialty with little direct patient interaction.