4th Year Mental health

[thisisstupid11]

How did everyone maintain their mental health with clerkships, gunners, constant change, and uncertainty about where they will end up?

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[air bud]

How did everyone maintain their mental health with clerkships, gunners, constant change, and uncertainty about where they will end up?

I am technically a millennial but really gen X so I just suppressed it like other memories from my childhood. The work is done when the work is done, mental health isn't a thing.

Control the controllables. Don't worry about rest.

 

[Weirdy]

Gym
Running
Local food places
Hobbies old and new
Quality family time

Literally anything outside of the hospital.
If you are just letting it pile up, than you are choosing to let it get to you.

Get better at managing your mental and physical health. Figure out how to de-stress and decompress.

Podiatry isn't everything.

 

[Shiyuan]

Podiatry isn't everything.

100%. Friends, family time, mini-vacations (wknd getaways), music, some Assassin’s Creed Black Flag (fav at the time) 🤓

 

[JustAPedicurist]

Just know it gets better. I’d say personally that was the worst year for me. Some will argue that it gets worse as you just keep progressing but there’s more certainty when you’re a resident and less walking on eggshells.

 

[Feli]

I will say this: you'll have more free time and time to yourself in pod school than in residency... more in residency than as an attending.

It's hard to explain, but in pod school, you just have school/rotations to worry about. Sure, that can be hard, but it's a singular focus... you basically just study and watch on rotations.
In residency, you have training.... and studying... and patients (to a much greater degree than being a student)... and job search.
As attending, you have a job... you're on your own for patients... financial pressures get real... maybe job search also.
[all three have financial, relationship, family, etc... so that kinda evens out]

...For all of the stages, fitness and friends/family and hobbies are key. Those are the things you can't buy, no matter how many fake wound grafts or implant consulting checks you might ever cash. If you're feeling unhappy, do things that make you happy. If you are overwhelmed, simplify. It's... uh, fairly simple.

 

[Robin-jay]

The best advice for getting through any difficult times is to just take it "day by day".

Instead of worrying about things in the future, and things you can't control, just focus on the next day.

4th year is a very miserable year because everything changes constantly. Once you get settled somewhere, things will fall into place.

 

[Voevodinα]

How did everyone maintain their mental health with clerkships, gunners, constant change, and uncertainty about where they will end up?

Comrade, you can just chill out without thinking "what if you don't pass the APMLE" because there's always an alternate road. Look at New Mexico, they even let Spain licensed Podiatrists & Canada licensed Podiatrists to get a reciprocity license. [Spain doesn't even have a licensure exam, a Podiatry graduate just needs to join their association to gain a license. So you can come there to enlist yourself then comeback to US to avail this privilege]. Thanks to the lawmakers for their generosity to let dreams come true nowadays, there's no uncertainty anymore.
Just this year New Mexico released this edict ↘️

 

[Adam Smasher]

Comrade, you can just chill out without thinking "what if you don't pass the APMLE" because there's always an alternate road. Look at New Mexico, they even let Spain licensed Podiatrists & Canada licensed Podiatrists to get a reciprocity license. [Spain doesn't even have a licensure exam, a Podiatry graduate just needs to join their association to gain a license. So you can come there to enlist yourself then comeback to US to avail this privilege]. Thanks to the lawmakers for their generosity to let dreams come true nowadays, there's no uncertainty anymore.
Just this year New Mexico released this edict ↘️

Bypassing the American Samoa route, nice

 

[GreenHousePub]

Comrade, you can just chill out without thinking "what if you don't pass the APMLE" because there's always an alternate road. Look at New Mexico, they even let Spain licensed Podiatrists & Canada licensed Podiatrists to get a reciprocity license. [Spain doesn't even have a licensure exam, a Podiatry graduate just needs to join their association to gain a license. So you can come there to enlist yourself then comeback to US to avail this privilege]. Thanks to the lawmakers for their generosity to let dreams come true nowadays, there's no uncertainty anymore.
Just this year New Mexico released this edict ↘️

How would they get malpractice insurance?

 

[Robin-jay]

The worst days are when I have to wake up around 4:45 am and spend the day doing nonstop things until 4-6 pm.

It's especially worse when everyone you're meeting that day is new, the places are all new, and you aren't getting paid a single cent.

4th year is basically intense volunteering, with all the cons of doing a job with none of the perks.

 

[JustAPedicurist]

The worst days are when I have to wake up around 4:45 am and spend the day doing nonstop things until 4-6 pm.

It's especially worse when everyone you're meeting that day is new, the places are all new, and you aren't getting paid a single cent.

4th year is basically intense volunteering, with all the cons of doing a job with none of the perks.

Oh wait until residency honey

 

[Treaty of Dorsi]

Oh wait until residency honey

To be fair residents are atleast getting paid….4th years are paying to work

 

[Robin-jay]

Oh wait until residency honey

I'm not complaining about long hours because they are long hours.

I'm complaining because 0 dollars of income a month is brutal. At least in residency you get a paycheck.

Working 40 hours a week while getting paid 0 dollars is way worse that working 80 hours a week and making 55k+.

 

[MoostashPod]

I'm not complaining about long hours because they are long hours.

I'm complaining because 0 dollars of income a month is brutal. At least in residency you get a paycheck.

Working 40 hours a week while getting paid 0 dollars is way worse that working 80 hours a week and making 55k+.

And another worst part is that you pay the 4th year tuition in which you are out 4-6 months of the year on externships/clerkships and also taking some (but not all) dumbed-down courses that's not needed to finish off the year. You're also paying for housing on clerkships too. It's ridiculous. Money going out only. Of course you can feel hopeless.

 

[Robin-jay]

And another worst part is that you pay the 4th year tuition in which you are out 4-6 months of the year on externships/clerkships and also taking some (but not all) dumbed-down courses that's not needed to finish off the year. You're also paying for housing on clerkships too. It's ridiculous. Money going out only. Of course you can feel hopeless.

Right, I feel like there's a time limit most people can take lol.

People are not meant to work for free for too long, and the 3rd and 4th year being 24 months of that is just a bit too much imo.

 

[Feli]

Right, I feel like there's a time limit most people can take lol.

People are not meant to work for free for too long, and the 3rd and 4th year being 24 months of that is just a bit too much imo.

You are not "working" as a student... try to avoid the 'woe-is-me' attitude. Students go home with no charts to do, no dictations, no worries since the attending + residents are responsible for the outpts and inpts and surgery pts, no required on-call, no risk that the surgery will go poor if you don't prep well or perform well, etc. It won't be that way for much longer... get as much benefit as you can from student exp and lack of real accountability.

They only "work" things you "have to do" as a student are still basically optional and they're for your own gain:
-show up to learn things, see pathology, pass rotations, prep/shadow for residency job schedule
-study to gain a degree, pass boards, do well at residency interviews and secure better post-grad training
-gain skills and ideas to eventually make money, help your own pts, maybe run your own office, etc

As a resident, you will have much more responsibility.
Attending? Even moreso.
Enjoy being a student while it lasts.
Students are just there to watch, learn and help out a bit. Sure, some do minor roles, but those things are far from necessary. People aren't going to care if a student shows up late for rounds, surgery, etc since they're basically just observers... they just might think they're lazy. The residency would go on just fine without student presentations or students looking up morning labs or retracting in OR or drawing up injections or whatever. The residents and attendings and patients can get by just fine without students... and they do exactly that in many months.

Students usually hurt the efficiency of rounds, academics, etc by asking questions, being slow, making mistakes... but it's good for their growth to teach them... and it helps the residents reinforce what they know (or should know). Residents are also a slight slowdown or sometimes a slight help for attendings depending where they're at (1st, 2nd, 3rd year, etc) and how good they personally are or aren't in terms of skill and aptitude. Many good attendings refuse to work with junior residents for that reason - or even start a fellowship for that reasoning (better and more useful help). You might understand that more in a couple years once you're a senior resident or an attending. But yeah... students don't "work for free"... because they don't do real work.

 

[Shiyuan]

You are not "working" as a student... try to avoid the 'woe-is-me' attitude. Students go home with no charts to do, no dictations, no worries since the attending + residents are responsible for the outpts and inpts and surgery pts, no required on-call, no risk that the surgery will go poor if you don't prep well, etc. It won't be that way for much longer... get as much benefit as you can from student exp.

They only "work" things you "have to do" as a student are still basically optional and they're for your own gain:
-show up to learn things, see pathology, pass rotations, prep/shadow for residency job schedule
-study to gain a degree, pass boards, do well at residency interviews and secure better post-grad training
-gain skills and ideas to eventually make money, help your own pts, maybe run your own office, etc

As a resident, you will have much more responsibility.
Attending? Even moreso.
Enjoy being a student while it lasts.
Students are just there to watch, learn and help out a bit. Sure, some do minor roles, but those things are far from necessary. People aren't going to care if a student shows up late for rounds, surgery, etc since they're basically just observers... they just might think they're lazy. The residency would go on just fine without student presentations or students looking up morning labs or retracting in OR or drawing up injections or whatever. The residents and attendings and patients can get by just fine without students... and they do exactly that in many months.

Students usually hurt the efficiency of rounds, academics, etc by asking questions, being slow, making mistakes... but it's good for their growth to teach them... and it helps the residents reinforce what they know (or should know). Residents are also a slight slowdown or sometimes a slight help for attendings depending where they're at (1st, 2nd, 3rd year, etc) and how good they personally are or aren't in terms of skill and aptitude. You might understand that more in a couple years once you're a senior resident or an attending. But yeah... students don't "work for free"... because they don't do real work.

Agree 100%. Stop the whining, learn, power through.

 

[Robin-jay]

You are not "working" as a student... try to avoid the 'woe-is-me' attitude. Students go home with no charts to do, no dictations, no worries since the attending + residents are responsible for the outpts and inpts and surgery pts, no required on-call, no risk that the surgery will go poor if you don't prep well or perform well, etc. It won't be that way for much longer... get as much benefit as you can from student exp and lack of real accountability.

They only "work" things you "have to do" as a student are still basically optional and they're for your own gain:
-show up to learn things, see pathology, pass rotations, prep/shadow for residency job schedule
-study to gain a degree, pass boards, do well at residency interviews and secure better post-grad training
-gain skills and ideas to eventually make money, help your own pts, maybe run your own office, etc

As a resident, you will have much more responsibility.
Attending? Even moreso.
Enjoy being a student while it lasts.
Students are just there to watch, learn and help out a bit. Sure, some do minor roles, but those things are far from necessary. People aren't going to care if a student shows up late for rounds, surgery, etc since they're basically just observers... they just might think they're lazy. The residency would go on just fine without student presentations or students looking up morning labs or retracting in OR or drawing up injections or whatever. The residents and attendings and patients can get by just fine without students... and they do exactly that in many months.

Students usually hurt the efficiency of rounds, academics, etc by asking questions, being slow, making mistakes... but it's good for their growth to teach them... and it helps the residents reinforce what they know (or should know). Residents are also a slight slowdown or sometimes a slight help for attendings depending where they're at (1st, 2nd, 3rd year, etc) and how good they personally are or aren't in terms of skill and aptitude. Many good attendings refuse to work with junior residents for that reason - or even start a fellowship for that reasoning (better and more useful help). You might understand that more in a couple years once you're a senior resident or an attending. But yeah... students don't "work for free"... because they don't do real work.

Not working vs not working as much as a resident are two very different things.

I admitted that residents do much more than students, but that doesn't mean time isn't money. Students are there doing a lot of things residents are doing, just for free.

In some senior clinics, you are charting the patients from start to finish the whole month anyway. It's 100% work. No question about it.

I'm complaining about 0 dollars for working (while paying school tuition and cost of living), which is a completely reasonable stance. It's not even close to an illogical stance.

 

[Robin-jay]

Agree 100%. Stop the whining, learn, power through.

I think whining and venting are two different things. I do a lot of extra things on my externships and do it without any problems.

However, that doesn't mean I'm not learning or powering through it just because I vent about it (venting anonymously at that).

Going through 4th year and working without pay...sucks...and that's a pretty fair stance.

 

[MoostashPod]

Not working vs not working as much as a resident are two very different things.

I admitted that residents do much more than students, but that doesn't mean time isn't money. Students are there doing a lot of things residents are doing, just for free.

In some senior clinics, you are charting the patients from start to finish the whole month anyway. It's 100% work. No question about it.

I'm complaining about 0 dollars for working (while paying school tuition and cost of living), which is a completely reasonable stance. It's not even close to an illogical stance.

I can understand your frustration and the need to vent on that. A lot of my colleagues did the same and so did I. The way to look at it is that you are exchanging the time and effort in learning at the program from the tuition money that was paid to the school. The school provides the opportunity to visit programs. It's an exchange. In the end you're getting a fair trade in a chance to interview at the program, an evaluation for the month spent in order to graduate, and overall the experience (to evaluate how you fit into the program, what it's like as a resident there, what you don't know and how you can improve, connections you can gain, the list goes on and on). There's no contract or employment involved here, so you cannot expect to get paid as a student doctor. It does suck big time, but it is what it is. The thing that I wish for the 4th year podiatry school is the reduced tuition cost by maybe $10K to offset the months out on externships/clerkships. That way you don't feel cheated. It's hard to have everything.

 

[Adam Smasher]

In some senior clinics, you are charting the patients from start to finish the whole month anyway. It's 100% work. No question about it.

Robin-jay is right. How many days did we as students waste in toenail clinics? I've written about how the dpm doesn't need to be a 4 year doctorate. (In Australia it's 3 years and they have a 5 year combined bachelor/dpm out of secondary school.) Clerkships are glorified job interviews and could be a week long or less. Too many rotations with too little learning. Nothing meaningful happens in the 5 months between CRIP and graduation--5 months of tuition, for what?!?!

The stress of being a student is that many make-or-break instances lie outside of your control. You don't want to do the wrong thing but you don't want to do nothing either. "Have a good personality" is code for "you have to be one of the cool kids to sit at our table."

Yes as an attending I have more work to do but it's my choice. If I want to blow off my charting, I can do it another day. If I don't know how to do a surgery on a disaster patient, I turf em with zero disruption to my cash flows. And that's the real stress of being an attending, financial pressures influence my decision making, but they always ultimately are my decisions.

Overall, being an attending is harder than being a student, but the challenges are stimulating and present growth opportunities. As a student, the challenges are just demoralizing and that takes a greater toll on some people.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

But yeah... students don't "work for free"... because they don't do real work.

Agree 100%. Stop the whining, learn, power through.

Residency you learn so much while also simultaneously put up with a lot of BS. Being paid is great, sure, but the 'work' i did as a student vs the work im doing now is not even in the same realm. Fourth year is a glorified field trip where you watch residents work and try to be helpful while the resident does the major lifting. for the most part, if you get good grades and get good clerkships you aren't stuck in nail jail for fourth year.

The harsh reality as a fourth year is you are the least busy person in that room of attendings and residents. so buck up and figure it out, because it only gets harder as a resident and atttending.

 

[Weirdy]

Fair points being made on both sides.

I enjoy being a resident more than a 4th year.

4th year sucked for same reasons listed above. Your work and impact mattered less. Month long try out, not getting paid, constantly getting judged.

Residency sucked for different reasons but at least you knew you were there for a reason and what you did mattered. The pay check helps as well.

Its ok to vent as a 4th year. Its also ok to realize as a 4th year, your residents and attendings are putting in much more work than you- even if they aren't feeling the stress you're feeling- there are different stressors and stuff they are doing in the background constantly.

 

[Robin-jay]

Residency you learn so much while also simultaneously put up with a lot of BS. Being paid is great, sure, but the 'work' i did as a student vs the work im doing now is not even in the same realm. Fourth year is a glorified field trip where you watch residents work and try to be helpful while the resident does the major lifting. for the most part, if you get good grades and get good clerkships you aren't stuck in nail jail for fourth year.

The harsh reality as a fourth year is you are the least busy person in that room of attendings and residents. so buck up and figure it out, because it only gets harder as a resident and atttending.

I just think people hear what they want to hear.

No one is arguing being a fourth year is harder than being a resident or attending, I'm just arguing that it sucks being a 4th year for having to work for no money.

 

[bloxxeeey]

I just think people hear what they want to hear.

No one is arguing being a fourth year is harder than being a resident or attending, I'm just arguing that it sucks being a 4th year for having to work for no money.

Wait until you're an attending and get to work for student loans!

 

[Feli]

Wait until you're an attending and get to work for student loans!

No kidding...

My early associate jobs went something like this:
$100k income gross
$30k taxes (Obama years with higher end taxes)
$20k student loan payments
...so, effectively same net and same old car and same basic groceries as residency. Happy day.

 

[HalluxSlicer]

How did everyone maintain their mental health with clerkships, gunners, constant change, and uncertainty about where they will end up?

My mental health went 6feet under, especially externing at Hospitals with MD/DO students and residencies. We do so little involvement when compared with actual medical students it is really sad. MD/DO extern students do everything from managing patients, consulting other departments, speaking with pharmacy, etc practically getting a great exposure to how residency will be which is exciting whereas us foot students usually just shadow, apply bandages as a free labor wound care nurse, and maybe use our hands for something aside from resting it on the sterile field in the OR. This profession is not worth it for my generation and younger. Before any podiatry loyalist come slam dunk on me, I externed at both average and highly coveted residencies so telling me I was at the VA externship is invalid

 

[Feli]

My mental health went 6feet under, especially externing at Hospitals with MD/DO students and residencies. We do so little involvement when compared with actual medical students it is really sad. MD/DO extern students do everything from managing patients, consulting other departments, speaking with pharmacy, etc practically getting a great exposure to how residency will be which is exciting whereas us foot students usually just shadow, apply bandages as a free labor wound care nurse, and maybe use our hands for something aside from resting it on the sterile field in the OR. This profession is not worth it for my generation and younger. Before any podiatry loyalist come slam dunk on me, I externed at both average and highly coveted residencies so telling me I was at the VA externship is invalid

You have to remember that the VAST majority of podiatry residencies are fairly new.

The three year training thing is fairly new.

The standards are very lax and irregular.

Most of our pod schools do not even have enough med and surg rotations, so students get watered-down exp or sent out of town to try to learn.

VAs - and a lot of other 'accredited' programs - were created hastily and without much actual oversight in order to avoid residency shortage (podiatry still had a couple of those anyways... and likely will again soon). A lot of those programs were not surgical or 1 or 2yr... and just converted to 3yr to fit the agenda. Many didn't have the surgery volume or the requisite rotations, teaching hospital setting.... and many still don't.

Most of the current podiatry "teaching" attendings and clinical faculty did not do much residency themselves or have any training on Med Ed or... definitely very few did their residency - or even a few rotations - in a large teaching hospital academic environment with true Med Ed dept and side-by-side with MDs.

That is the main thing about podiatry that I don't get: why not work on our existing residencies? (many of which are poor)
That is why our profession is such a joke overall: variable training, variable competence, inadequate volumes, way too many of us.
Those things could be fixed (gradually) by improving training, standardizing, getting better students and training them better.
Instead, we add new schools and grads, take attendings out of residencies for fellowships, add new residencies, add more spots at mediocre ones.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Fair points being made on both sides.

I enjoy being a resident more than a 4th year.

4th year sucked for same reasons listed above. Your work and impact mattered less. Month long try out, not getting paid, constantly getting judged.

Residency sucked for different reasons but at least you knew you were there for a reason and what you did mattered. The pay check helps as well.

Its ok to vent as a 4th year. Its also ok to realize as a 4th year, your residents and attendings are putting in much more work than you- even if they aren't feeling the stress you're feeling- there are different stressors and stuff they are doing in the background constantly.

Are you really in residency still?

Because if you are I cannot WAIT to hear what you have to say when you try and get a decent paying job in this field. This should be good…

 

[Weirdy]

Are you really in residency still?

Because if you are I cannot WAIT to hear what you have to say when you try and get a decent paying job in this field. This should be good…

Last year and have a non-associate job lined up.
I am very aware of the current job market and the rhetoric that gets pushed on here.

Does saturation in the current market exist? Yes.
Will life as an attending suck? Probably.
Decreasing reimbursements? Already happening.
ABFAS vs ABPM politics? Still happening.
SDN members thinking I am pushing a narrative for either side? Yup.

Was there anything else you were concerned about specifically? Happy to discuss here or in PMs.

 

[fishman2007]

All the pgy3s seeing Weirdy locking up a non associate job. Congrats!

 

[Weirdy]

All the pgy3s seeing Weirdy locking up a non associate job. Congrats!

I got lucky. My process was not typical.

 

[PTPuser]

I got lucky. My process was not typical.

Rooting for you!!

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

I got lucky. My process was not typical.

It is all about who you know in this field. Friends, attendings, etc. It really is not best podiatrist for the job. Hate to break it to anyone here.

Congrats on getting whatever job you got.

Do I do think you and the other moderator support a certain side by prematurely locking up threads where other posters are posting non pro-podiatry perspectives....yes it is abundantly clear.

 

[Feli]

It is all about who you know in this field. Friends, attendings, etc. It really is not best podiatrist for the job. Hate to break it to anyone here.

Congrats on getting whatever job you got.

Do I do think you and the other moderator support a certain side by prematurely locking up threads where other posters are posting non pro-podiatry perspectives....yes it is abundantly clear.

Wayduminnit. You are saying I could post endless random videos and threads and promotions for my office, hospital, school, organizations - and give directive to delete any saying otherwise - if I $ponsored the forum?

Hey, at least they took down the "sponsored by APMA" on the pre-pod forum.
That was a really bad look... pretty clear conflict of interest for the org approving schools and getting funded largely by the for-profit schools' student fees to be encouraging what is said (or not said) about the schools and profession overall.

...and yes, that is the sad jobs truth in podiatry: there are faaar more students than decent residency spots and far more residents than good jobs. Much of it is alumni networks and friendships made and random luck. That is basically what the fellowship fad is: a last gasp and more debt in hope of more networking or giving a year of cheap labor to try to get employed with the fellowship sponsor office/group. It's sad.

We, as DPMs, are grossly overpopulated in even small towns.... tremendously overpopulated in nearly all metro areas. That becomes glaring to anyone once they begin the job search.

 

[Weirdy]

It is all about who you know in this field. Friends, attendings, etc. It really is not best podiatrist for the job. Hate to break it to anyone here.

Congrats on getting whatever job you got.

Do I do think you and the other moderator support a certain side by prematurely locking up threads where other posters are posting non pro-podiatry perspectives....yes it is abundantly clear.

Understandable why you would think that.
I personally try very hard to keep all discourse as open for as long as possible.
I get s*** from both sides for doing anything that upsets the other side.
It becomes harder when posters resort to ad hominems or the topics divulge.
Will try to do a better job.

 

[Adam Smasher]

First, the mods don't lock threads because they're biased, they lock threads because we often bicker like children.

Second, podiatry isn't the only profession where "it's not what you know it's who you know" (look at actors, university professors, and politicians for other examples) but when we're cranking out 11 schools worth of grads, knowing the right people will be key to good jobs. As for me, my story is more of a lemons to lemonade situation, a little bit of hard work and a whole lot of toenails.

This is the beauty of lobster podiatry. You don't have to know anyone, you just find a good spot on the ocean floor and scavenge for patients no one else wants. You don't need friends in high places when you're thriving at the bottom.

 

[Mental_Managment_97]

Do I do think you and the other moderator support a certain side by prematurely locking up threads where other posters are posting non pro-podiatry perspectives....yes it is abundantly clear.

There are moderators here?!

 

[Feli]

First, the mods don't lock threads because they're biased, they lock threads because we often bicker like children...

You probably remember, but there was pretty much a wholesale hockey-style line change of a few heavily conversational podiatry mods (and a few pod regulars) "retiring" 2010-12... and various new ones brought in. Same thing again a handful of years after (2 mods out, 2 in... although one stayed in convos for a year or more after being moderator).

I'm not saying it was necessarily anything but a coincidence that the mods and attendings of ~15yr ago became attendings or senior residents and phased out (I did too... for years), but it 100% does change the culture of the forum. It's dynamic. Right now, there is much more mod delete/lock/warning than converse in the forum (it was formerly much more of the latter and just a tiny bit of lock/delete). The ABPM CAQ surgery and excess pod schools and other nonsense hasn't helped. If there is another residency shortage like there was with Western Pod starting to graduate, look out.

Fwiw, I think the forum functions fine either way (police mods vs convo mods), but it has been a paradigm shift. It's a shift in both the mods (or their directives) and the users and their attack/banter/tattle styles that draws the mods to do lock/ban stuff.

The best case scenario is if some of the convo type mods stayed (even if no longer functioning as mods), but ppl get busy and leave or take long breaks. That's really how the forums thrive and almost mod themselves: conversational mods and good regulars (not catty/abrasive).

 

[Forcewielder]

I'm apparently an outlier because I actually enjoyed 3rd and 4th year overall. 1st year, and especially 2nd year, sucked. I'm not made to sit in a lecture hall or learn by reading. Externships were where I actually began to truly learn.

The worst thing in 4th year was the interview-like feel for a month solid. I always felt like I was on egg shells already, and then they want you to socialize after hours and I just never could relax enough in that forced scenario.

If you don't like 4th year, it's because you have the wrong attitude about it. No one owes you anything. You're not special and you didn't earn anything yet.

My best advice that carried me through those years was, "Embrace the suck." Going to the gym makes you sore. Doing hard things gives you calluses and pain. But look forward to the results and it makes the process more tolerable. Every stage of life has its pros and cons. I can tell you that no stage was like I had anticipated.

Also, the part about paid vs unpaid is pretty laughable. Who cares whether you're paid or not. I never thought about my pay, or lack thereof, until my real job. Live off of nothing so that it doesn't matter either way. My 1st year of residency I made 30k and I still paid off a couple smaller student loans. Now I net that in a month.

Final advice: Listen to some podcasts of people with real problems and know you've got it pretty good. Try to have some fun along the way and embrace some classmates during the process as fellow comrades in the foxhole or whatever analogy you prefer.

Cheers.

 

[PTPuser]

I think what makes 4th year also depressing (if you read SDN or is remotely aware of what is going on with the profession) is the fact that you're working just as hard as other 4th year md/do students but their career is fruitful at the end of all of this, while us.....god bless...

 

[Shiyuan]

I'm apparently an outlier because I actually enjoyed 3rd and 4th year overall. 1st year, and especially 2nd year, sucked. I'm not made to sit in a lecture hall or learn by reading. Externships were where I actually began to truly learn.

The worst thing in 4th year was the interview-like feel for a month solid. I always felt like I was on egg shells already, and then they want you to socialize after hours and I just never could relax enough in that forced scenario.

If you don't like 4th year, it's because you have the wrong attitude about it. No one owes you anything. You're not special and you didn't earn anything yet.

My best advice that carried me through those years was, "Embrace the suck." Going to the gym makes you sore. Doing hard things gives you calluses and pain. But look forward to the results and it makes the process more tolerable. Every stage of life has its pros and cons. I can tell you that no stage was like I had anticipated.

Also, the part about paid vs unpaid is pretty laughable. Who cares whether you're paid or not. I never thought about my pay, or lack thereof, until my real job. Live off of nothing so that it doesn't matter either way. My 1st year of residency I made 30k and I still paid off a couple smaller student loans. Now I net that in a month.

Final advice: Listen to some podcasts of people with real problems and know you've got it pretty good. Try to have some fun along the way and embrace some classmates during the process as fellow comrades in the foxhole or whatever analogy you prefer.

Cheers.

Good post, Cal 🙂

 

[Feli]

I think what makes 4th year also depressing (if you read SDN or is remotely aware of what is going on with the profession) is the fact that you're working just as hard as other 4th year md/do students but their career is fruitful at the end of all of this, while us.....god bless...

Yes, for sure. It is hard to see that disparity in job options and income.

Fourth year is a great time to finally reap the benefits of your studies, though.
You get to see the procedures you've read all about.
You get to create options for residency.

I know my knowledge took off exponentially 4th year.
I was challenged to learn and read a ton.
I met a ton of cool people... saw new places, restaurants, cities.
You get to see some hardcore docs with different thinking than the pod school profs.
You meet students from different pod schools and can get intel or new ideas.
You meet babes people from all kinds of MD and DO and nursing and other schools in the hospitals.

It is all in how you view it, I suppose.

 

[Forcewielder]

Yes, for sure. It is hard to see that disparity in job options and income.

Fourth year is a great time to finally reap the benefits of your studies, though.
You get to see the procedures you've read all about.
You get to create options for residency.

I know my knowledge took off exponentially 4th year.
I was challenged to learn and read a ton.
I met a ton of cool people... saw new places, restaurants, cities.
You get to see some hardcore docs with different thinking than the pod school profs.
You meet students from different pod schools and can get intel or new ideas.
You meet babes people from all kinds of MD and DO and nursing and other schools in the hospitals.

It is all in how you view it, I suppose.

Great post. We get to live a crazy life. So many people live and die in the city they were born. Some others will travel sparingly but never get off the beaten path. We had this unique opportunity to spend a month in different locations and gain a ton of life experiences. I'm super frugal so I didn't do a lot of things classmates did, but looking up interesting dives, museums, or nature trails led to some fun weekends that I would never experience otherwise. Don't get too bogged down in the grind to forget to look up and around you.

 

[air bud]

Football coaches. Once you got into the bill parcels or Mike shanahan or someone like thst coaching tree or a dad that was in there....set for life. Fail upwards. Looking at you Matt Patricia.

First, the mods don't lock threads because they're biased, they lock threads because we often bicker like children.

Second, podiatry isn't the only profession where "it's not what you know it's who you know" (look at actors, university professors, and politicians for other examples) but when we're cranking out 11 schools worth of grads, knowing the right people will be key to good jobs. As for me, my story is more of a lemons to lemonade situation, a little bit of hard work and a whole lot of toenails.

This is the beauty of lobster podiatry. You don't have to know anyone, you just find a good spot on the ocean floor and scavenge for patients no one else wants. You don't need friends in high places when you're thriving at the bottom.