Why AZCOM is so awesome

[DO2]

I am going to AZCOM this Fall. I am very excited and would like to know that there are others, like me, who feel that AZCOM is the best medical school around. Tell me what you like about AZCOM.

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[prefontaine]

Hmmm! Since AZCOM has ZERO graduates and is not accredited, what is the basis for this amusing post? Must be the 'eager beaver syndrome'.

 

[DO2]

I was accepted to KCOM, among other DO schools, that have a huge alumni. But who cares about previous graduates. Who scored #1 on the Boards last year? AZCOM did (or so I heard)and it was their first year taking them. That impressed me along with the fact that it is a new school (KCOM seemed so ancient) and has a lot of potential with it being the only med school in the whole Phoenix valley. Where are you going? I would be interested to know why you chose that school.

 

[prefontaine]

AZCOM being #1 on the boards is a ridiculous rumor...the NBOME does not release the mean scores. How could they be #1, when none of their students have completed part 2 (or 3)?

Since COMLEX is still waiting to be validated, does it really matter?

My school selection was based purely on economics...I attended the cheapest, a state DO school. Note "I attended", ie I am finished with school and waiting to begin residency.

From my observations, none of the DO schools are that outstanding. They are a means to an end.

You should read the American College of Internal Medicine's concerns about the quality of AZCOM's clinical training.

Potential means that you haven't done it yet.

 

[DO2]

Give me the Cliff's Notes version of what they said about AZCOM's clinical training. I would appreciate it.

 

[DO DUDE]

Here's the link to what prefontaine is referring to:

www.acponline.org/journals/news/nov97/osteopat.htm

prefontaine,

Didn't you attend West Virginia SOM?



[This message has been edited by DO DUDE (edited May 20, 1999).]

 

[jdaasbo]

well I have this to say:

1)the article refers to the AZ school as the University of Arizona SOM. This is clearly wrong.
2)Going to CCOM (also part of MWU) I can assure you that they have more than 8 faculty there.
3)I have heard from students about lots of problems regarding the quality of clinical rotations.
4)I have also heard that part of this problem of clinical rotation quality stems from (this is a rough paraphrase of what I heard) the administrations lack of tact with area hospitals. Apparently they pissed off a lot of people and the students are suffering as a result.


All this said I found the article quoted to be full of hot air. In general there were several statements that told me that the article was poorely researched.

The verdict of AZCOM? I don't know but I personnaly wouldn't feel totally at ease going there.

The comment about the lack of depth of quality DO med students is a farce. The person who made that comment has absolutely no idea what they are talking about (having probably stuck up in the ivory tower of allopathic academia for 25 years). This is a perfect example of how problems of one school are magnified in isolation of other facts and then applied to all DO schools.

Did anyone see how Stanford Med came within a hair of having its accredition suspended (by the AAMC)? Their library has no bathrooms or air conditioning (I kid you not). They have no computers for student access and their classrooms have not been updated in 25 years. And they have an annual research budget of 2 or 3 billion dollars. It is clear from this sampling that the quality of education of all allopathic schools is called into serious question!

How's that for biased sensationalism (and they claim to be scientists).

 

[edgar]

I can vouch for jdassbo's comments about Stanford Medical School. I took a tour there with my pre-med club last year and the classrooms were very ugly and sucky. The only attractive part of the medical school is the hospital. I was surprised too that such a prestigious medical school had such terrible facilities, it looks like it hasn't been renovated since the 1950s.

EDGAR

 

[Ponyboy]

OH MY GOSH! UGLY CLASSROOMS!?! CALL AAMC! IT'S AMAZING THAT THEY COULD TURN OUT COMPETENT DOCTORS WITH SUCH UGLY CLASSROOMS!

PS. U of Toronto is the best med school, in the world.

 

[edgar]

Ponyboy,

Okay, I concede your point, the prettiness of the classrooms has no correlation to the quality of doctors produced by a school. And there is no doubt that Stanford is one of the best medical schools in the country (besides UToronto). It just that if you are paying $26,000 a year for tuition (I think that is about how much Stanford people pay) you would expect a nice classroom environment. By the way, what med school have you decided on attending?

Thanks for the humor

EDGAR

 

[Ponyboy]

still waiting for UT, McMaster, Queens, Western, UAlberta (letters are sent out next week for the Ontario schools). Will probably go to UAlberta, if all goes according to plan--$20 000 Canadian for four years (roughly equivalent to about $51 US) is too good to pass up.

[This message has been edited by Ponyboy (edited May 20, 1999).]

 

[edgar]

Ponyboy,

One of the doctors I used to volunteer with is an University of Alberta graduate (he did the B.S./M.D. thing). He was a GP in Canada for a few years and came to Stanford for his orthopedic surgery residency. Excellent surgeon, he just retired last year at the age of 69. Good luck with making your decision about which school to attend.

EDGAR

 

[spunkydoc]

the problem with azcom and rotations does not stem entirely from "a lack of tact." it is a lot of economics..yes, azcom is the only DO school in phoenix and is encroaching upon UAZ med school (or is it AZ U--i never get that right)..anyway, whichever university has the allopathic school there, wants a monopoly..AZCOM is a threat...it put down roots, grew, and did well pretty fast..glendale was kinda a crappy no man's land..now there is a whole town built around AZCOM..you must admit that goeppinger is a smart lady and quite the risk taker, building an oasis to save CCOM's failing financial situation..

AZCOM is by far not the # DO school..they say CCOM is the harvard--but who knows or cares..AZCOM is brand spanking new and like any new baby, growth pains will occur..the rotations thing however is a HUGE problem and i would not feel comfortable there at all knowing that the state did not want me there and is doing what it can to lock me out..however, AZCOM does have a great didactic curriculum approach and fairly happy, tan students..there are pros and cons to every school..you need to weigh your options and rank your priorities..just don't be fooled by all the used cars salesmen in the do profession..

 

[Derek]

Prefontaine:

It is not too often that I chime in on my own forum, but I have to say that your comments really pissed me off. If you want to know the truth about what is going on at AZCOM I will tell you. As far as that article goes, there was little accuracy in their attempt to depict the incredible progress this school has made.

First, it is just a rumor that we scored the highest on the boards, but from talking to the 3rd, which are now 4th years, many scored off the chart and the class as whole did outstanding. Second, we have some of the greatest opportunities for hands on medicine for 3rd and 4th year medical students of any school that I am aware of. It is common that our students will be first or second assistants in surgery and will be deliverying new borns with the supervision of the faculty. Sure some of the rotations weren't so hot to start off with, but to those we said "buh-bye" and were on the fast track of medical education.

I'll leave you all with this. I worked at the Medical College of WI for over a year and became friendly with many of the students, residents, faculty, and the medical system as a whole and I'd say we match up in every area accept clinical research. Take it for what your will, but it is the truth.

 

[prefontaine]

Derek, no need to get your knickers in a twist.

Do you think I am concerned how an unaccredited osteopathic school (with no track record) does on an unvalidated board exam?

It is common in DO schools for students in the clinical years to be first assist and to be the 'catcher' during deliveries. Perhaps your 'aware of' knowledge is limited.

If you are truly concerned about my opinion and the 'truth', provide objective responses and not subjective fluff.

Anyway, your post was good for a few chuckles.

 

[Derek]

Prefonaine:

I think it is important to remember that as DO's we have enough obstacles to overcome in the field of medicine with out internal attacks from members of our own. While I don't know if you have been accepted, are in med school, or a resident, but from your comments it sounds like you have really missed the boat. The point is not to sit arround and compare schools, residencies, MCAT scores, class rank, ect. it is to become a compassionate physician who desires to give his/her patients the highest quality of care and his/her fellow workers in health care the uttmost respect. I really hope that you can embrace this thinking as you mature as an individual and experience the trials and tribulations that medicine throws at you. Nobody does it on their own, nobody is that self-righteous, someday you'll need one of us to take your call or to see a patient when your in a pinch.

 

[Synergy]

Prefontaine,
I have to say that I have had respect for your previous posts. What's up with your newest ones? Pre, in my humble opinion, be glad that you were able to become a physician, and don't put down the hand (osteopathic medicine) that fed you.

 

[Test Boy]

I agree with Derek and Synergy. Sometimes Prefontaine provide useful facts but he is pretty annoying. Me thinks he and DOGBOY are related.

 

[DOGBOY]

Test Boy, me thinks yu and Henry are related based on your command of the english language. However you could be a distant relative of Yoda?

 

[NickCVM]

Me things that dogboy's ancestor was fighting for bananas with my ancestor on the same tree branch a few thousand years ago. However me not see a lot of neurological evolution in dogboy.
Me realize that dogboy brain stay in a primitive state - and after me realize that, everything make sense.

--Nicolas--
WesternU'03

 

[dragonking]

Hey Nick

I believe dogboy is jealous of Henry because dogboy can never get an human form. Somewhere in the line of development, he is stuck with a 4 legs walking creature.

Maybe you should also remind his genetic defects. To give him a hint to work in the lab, using all the North East South West blots and discovered his "imperfecto".

or

Maybe we can buy him a ticket to the ZOO so he can finally met his long lost relatives.

BTW, Nick, his snaky character reminds me of the Cestodes or Nematodes.

Maybe he is a hybrid of Canis and Cestodes. Wow, this is interesting.

 

[NickCVM]

ahhh, ahh... good one!

--Nicolas--

 

[DO2]

I originally was not going to post another reply because I thought that another "expert" opinion from "you know who" would kill me. But it would do AZCOM and DO premeds an injustice if I didn't.
There were so many mistakes in the ACP observer that they made an "ACP OBSERVER Correction" in the Arizona Chapter Governor's Newsletter Winter 97-98. If their research wasn't even good enough to get the name of the school right what does that say about the rest of the article? They said that AZCOM has only 8 full time faculty. Which is totally untrue. The teaching clinical faculty alone numbers over 400, and yet the article suggests that students were forced to learn from textbooks alone. The preclinical training at AZCOM is at such a level that the teaching clinical faculty praised the students at being "at or above" the level of training of other DO/MD students.
I don't know personally about the "passionate opposition" in the community stated in the article but I do know that before opening up AZCOM they sent a survey to more than 800 physicians in Arizona and 90% supported clinical training for students at a DO school. They also have affiliation agreements with a majority of the hospitals in the Phoenix area, and many others in other parts of Arizona and the US.
I know that AZCOM is not a Harvard or Johns Hopkins, but it is a darn good school (contrary to what others may say). AZCOM is more competitive to get into than even some of the more established DO schools. And even more importantly every AZCOM students that I have talked to loves it. The purpose of my original post was to attract future AZCOMers not to have a debate on who's school sucks the most.
One thing that made me second guess my choice of going DO was the attitudes of "MD wannabes" that are in the DO community. Do everyone a favor and DON'T go to DO school if you won't appreciate the DO education! I love the DO philosophy and am excited to be able to go to AZCOM.

 

[Platz]

I would be embarrassed if someone who did not know anything about Osteopathy found this website and saw the things that were written. It is like it is this crazy competition on which DO school to attend. On about every posts people start fighting over which school is better. If some of the people on these lists spend as much time sharing with other people what Osteopathy is about instead of bickering over which school is better, everyone would know what a DO is about. With allopathic medicine, it seems to me anyway, that you want to go to the Harvard and Yale medical schools and that the people that don't are not that good of a doctor. Everyone knows that that isn't true. I personally don't want that to happen to Osteopathic schools. Osteopathy as enough battles, we don't need battles from people that are all in the same boat. It is OK to compare certain things like classrooms, computers, and rotations between schools, but lets not attack other schools. Good luck at AZCOM DO2. I know you will do fine. Oh, and KCOM isn't that ancient. They are however building a new geriatric center on campus.

Platz1998

 

[Diane E]

Platz-
Tell me more about KCOM's new geriatric center.
PS I agree about all of us working together. However, I think it's human nature for each to feel their school is the best.