we choose np campaign

[Mr.S]

I'm not trying to attack you, I just admittedly get defensive kind of quickly on these forums as a result of some of the insults usually thrown at NP's (not by you). Everywhere I have seen it is physician outnumbering NP's at least 3 to 1. The physicians who run mid level mills and oversee an army of midlevels to make as much money as possible are doing this by choice, and are part of the problem. Only fellow physicians can reign those people in.

Only Medical Doctors should be making decisions about medical decisions.
Nurse Doctors are NOT Medical Doctors.
I do not understand what the confusion is.

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[762513]

Only Medical Doctors should be making decisions about medical decisions.
Nurse Doctors are NOT Medical Doctors.
I do not understand what the confusion is.

I literally have no idea what you are talking about. Where did you interpret that I said nurse doctors should be making decisions about medical decisions.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

1 per 2-5 physicians seems quite reasonable, and I think that is where their role is best fit. Do follow-ups on patients who aren't complex and may just need a DM/HTN medicine refill and have no complications from these meds.

Primarily used for same day appointments - cough, ankle sprain, GI bug, you get the idea.

 

[Ho0v-man]

This is not about patient safety. Its about money. Specifically, medical students thinking they might lose a dollar here or there if someone see's an NP. Just be honest about it at least. Actually, NP's increase physician salaries far more than they harm them. It will be ok, guys.

I’m sure some care about this and maybe are a little butt hurt when they realize that the easiest way to get the derm lifestyle was to go NP.

But I know I’m absolutely freaked out that in a couple of years I’ll be expected to care for people. Everything that can go wrong with someone is going to be my responsibility (either treating or at least recognizing it). I spend most of my days beating my head against the wall trying to remember s/s and tx of things NPs don’t even know exist. The fact that NPs can waltz into unsupervised practice after completing an online degree and “clinical hours” (which just translates to finding a doc to sign a form) is an absolute travesty and such a disservice to patients.

I would be all for sacrificing the pay to get rid of independent practice. Keep the paycheck.

 

[762513]

I’m sure some care about this and maybe are a little butt hurt when they realize that the easiest way to get the derm lifestyle was to go NP.

But I know I’m absolutely freaked out that in a couple of years I’ll be expected to care for people. Everything that can go wrong with someone is going to be my responsibility (either treating or at least recognizing it). I spend most of my days beating my head against the wall trying to remember s/s and tx of things NPs don’t even know exist. The fact that NPs can waltz into unsupervised practice after completing an online degree and “clinical hours” (which just translates to finding a doc to sign a form) is an absolute travesty and such a disservice to patients.

I would be all for sacrificing the pay to get rid of independent practice. Keep the paycheck.

I stand corrected. It’s about ego too. The slippery slope is real. NP students earlier in the thread only shadowed. Now apparently you are implying they don’t do anything at all, they just find a doc to sign a form. You guys say ridiculous, untrue insulting things, and then wonder why I get defensive. This thread, and all like it, is about fragile medical students ego and money, nothing much more. NP’s don’t negate your education. Be happy you’re going to be a physician and have the best education possible, don’t worry about NP’s, they will never take your job or your money or your ego.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I stand corrected. It’s about ego too. The slippery slope is real. NP students earlier in the thread only shadowed. Now apparently you are implying they don’t do anything at all, they just find a doc to sign a form. You guys say ridiculous, untrue insulting things, and then wonder why I get defensive. This thread, and all like it, is about fragile medical students ego and money, nothing much more. NP’s don’t negate your education. Be happy you’re going to be a physician and have the best education possible, don’t worry about NP’s, they will never take your job or your money or your ego.

I love that you come here to say that you don’t want NP bashing, and then you immediately proceed to attack multiple members with various logical fallacies in a very poorly disguised attempt to incite them to respond in anger so you can point out the subsequent “NP bashing.” It’s getting old.

If you’d like to actually discuss the topic, try doing so using facts and logical arguments.

 

[762513]

I love that you come here to say that you don’t want NP bashing, and then you immediately proceed to attack multiple members with various logical fallacies in a very poorly disguised attempt to incite them to respond in anger so you can point out the subsequent “NP bashing.” It’s getting old.

If you’d like to actually discuss the topic, try doing so using facts and logical arguments.

If the debate begins with NP’s seem to now have no clinical hours and only get forms signed, there’s no place really to go from here. Don’t worry, I’ll unfollow this post, as you are looking for any reason to ban me.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I stand corrected. It’s about ego too. The slippery slope is real. NP students earlier in the thread only shadowed. Now apparently you are implying they don’t do anything at all, they just find a doc to sign a form. You guys say ridiculous, untrue insulting things, and then wonder why I get defensive. This thread, and all like it, is about fragile medical students ego and money, nothing much more. NP’s don’t negate your education. Be happy you’re going to be a physician and have the best education possible, don’t worry about NP’s, they will never take your job or your money or your ego.

I personally know 4 NPs who attended 3 different schools who said it’s like this. To their credit, they did more than the bare minimum by choice. But they also didn’t have to do so.

Stop trying to move the point around. I’m worried about being able to provide quality care with much more intense and thorough training than any NP will receive (and that’s even if your training is as great as you claim). Not sure how that makes me arrogant.

Go ahead and be offended all you want. It doesn’t make you right.

 

[762513]

I personally know 4 NPs who attended 3 different schools who said it’s like this. To their credit, they did more than the bare minimum by choice. But they also didn’t have to do so.

Stop trying to move the point around. I’m worried about being able to provide quality care with much more intense and thorough training than any NP will receive (and that’s even if your training is as great as you claim). Not sure how that makes me arrogant.

Go ahead and be offended all you want. It doesn’t make you right.

You strongly implied that NP students just get forms signed and may not do clinical hours at all. If you’re going to be offensive, don’t be shocked when people take offense?

I understand your point, and am not in favor of independent NP practice, so why should I respond to you about something we are in agreement on?

 

[Ho0v-man]

You strongly implied that NP students just get forms signed and may not do clinical hours at all. If you’re going to be offensive, don’t be shocked when people take offense?

I understand your point, and am not in favor of independent NP practice, so why should I respond to you about something we are in agreement on?

Bc you’re argument is nonsense about med students “bashing” NPs bc of our egos. Or is it bc of our perceived fear of NP encroachment? Fiscal? Arrogance? Do you have a consistent argument?

I apologize for implying that some NPs simply get a form signed for some of their clinical hours and never do anything while they’re there.

I meant to directly say that this happens bc I know it happens. I’ve met NPs that have bragged that they didn’t do anything in the clinic unless they were on a rotation where they felt like it.

I’m a DO student. We have problems with our standard of clinical training. It’s not “DO bashing” to point out a flaw in my educational model. It’s a fact that needs to be addressed.

You’re original post said this wasn’t about patient safety but about money. I called you out and then it became about ego. Will the next post change it to being about 9/11? The industrial revolution, maybe? I suppose if you keep changing the topic you’ll eventually be right about something.

 

[762513]

Bc you’re argument is nonsense about med students “bashing” NPs bc of our egos. Or is it bc of our perceived fear of NP encroachment? Fiscal? Arrogance? Do you have a consistent argument?

I apologize for implying that some NPs simply get a form signed for some of their clinical hours and never do anything while they’re there.

I meant to directly say that this happens bc I know it happens. I’ve met NPs that have bragged that they didn’t do anything in the clinic unless they were on a rotation where they felt like it.

I’m a DO student. We have problems with our standard of clinical training. It’s not “DO bashing” to point out a flaw in my educational model. It’s a fact that needs to be addressed.

You’re original post said this wasn’t about patient safety but about money. I called you out and then it became about ego. Will the next post change it to being about 9/11? The industrial revolution, maybe? I suppose if you keep changing the topic you’ll eventually be right about something.

I said it was also about ego. I never took anything I said back, if you read the posts. I think you do care about patient safety, but NP"s are probably the safest of the fake doctors you guys have to deal with, and it speaks volumes that the naturopaths get a pass, simply because you don't want to care for a patient at all that believes strongly in essential oils curing cancer and the healing properties of crystals. Your points are valid that even physicians out of training are often in over their heads. NP's are even more so. I don't think that your points are ego or money driven, but many posters on this website are. I can't speak to your personal experience of NP's blatantly lying about their hours. I know an NP student who was failed by a physician because the physician did not think the NP had a strong enough grasp on their assessment skills. That sounds like my profession is being held accountable, and its far from the story you described. Sorry if I came across harsh, as I've noted, its easy to get defensive when your profession gets attacked.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

I know an NP student who was failed by a physician because the physician did not think the NP had a strong enough grasp on their assessment skills. That sounds like my profession is being held accountable, and its far from the story you described.

No, that sounds like a single student was being held accountable. It sounds like you went to a solid NP school; however, due to the lack of strict standardization of NP curriculums across the board, allowing for schools who graduate NPs who should not be graduating based on the experiences they’ve had. This, along with the political push for independent practice (much of it from those NPs graduating from glorified diploma mills rather than solid institutions like yours) has lead to a drop in trust of NPs in general with many other members of the medical team.

 

[762513]

No, that sounds like a single student was being held accountable. It sounds like you went to a solid NP school; however, due to the lack of strict standardization of NP curriculums across the board, allowing for schools who graduate NPs who should not be graduating based on the experiences they’ve had. This, along with the political push for independent practice (much of it from those NPs graduating from glorified diploma mills rather than solid institutions like yours) has lead to a drop in trust of NPs in general with many other members of the medical team.

Granted, but that doesn’t make the previous posters story of NP students fabricating their clinical hours valid or widespread, either. I’m aware NP schools need improvement, however, most NP’s out there are safe additions to the treatment team who take great care of their patients and work well with physicians. Saying otherwise is untrue, as the attendings I know respect their NP’s and would actually hire more of them if they could. The NP hating med student behavior on this forum is extreme and not consistent with what happens daily in the healthcare sector.