Urgent Help2

[ts87v]

VR:7 PS:14 BS:10 WR: O Total: 31O
GPA: 3.71
so... 1 point away from the minimum requirement. i dedicated my entire 3months of this summer just for studying MCAT and only for applying to Australian schools next year. I'm a Canadian citizen (in the 4th yr of college in US now)but I moved from Korea when I was gr.7 , so yea, I'm bilingual.

My goal/dream schools : Sydney &Melbourne&ANU
I really debated whether or not to post this question here cuz it's a kind of ridiculous topic that's been far from the convention of Aussie Med schools...but...

what if I send a Letter of Intent along w/ my transcript ? I've seen some, if not many, US applicants doing this in the past for their US Med Schools in the hope of giving it a slight more edge to their application. Letter of Intent is basically where applicants are selling themselves by writing why they deserve to be in medicine and etc in order to cover their weak areas in the application (i.e poor GPA, poor MCAT score, minimal amount of ECs.... etc)

But of course, US Med schools don't have any clear cut-off MCAT scores, which would make the purpose of the letter somewhat different from that of my own...

Yea.. requirement is requirement ...I know that's the reality but i mean..being just 1 point away (or just 1 VR Question, really) from at least having a chance to attend an interview and show my passion towards medicine really depresses me....I have always been so eager to go into medicine ever since I was young and throughout the entire past 4 yrs of my college here in US, thinking, someday, I will be there.

And Yes, I have plenty of time to retake and I will most likely do so next year after I graduate (2010 June). But retaking doesn't quite gurantee I will make an 8... BUT... next time, I will make sure to put uber extra amount of work and effort to make an 8...if that's what medicine entails...sure. I'm more than willing to stand up again for challenge.

BUT ! I'm just really curious what people think of my idea. I have that O in my writing section to show that I actually have a quite decent ability to write and communicate ...which kinda gives me this feelling that if I try to appeal the adcoms with some persuasive essays that can prove my writing skills and describe personal goals& feelings&achievements, they could give me a chance?

Oh, btw, the U of Melbourne hasn't released its MCAT cut-off scores for its new MD program, but I'm fairly sure that it will have 8/8/8 O or something like that, which has been the official requirement for the past MBBS program...(though I'm praying hard it won't have any cutoff...lol)


I'm will also ask Matt in Oztrekk sometime later, but just wanna get ur advice & opinions first.

Thanks for ur help on this !

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[calone]

just that 7 on your VR is making things difficult for your otherwise great stats and application...I think you have a few options here.
You can retake it and get a better score on the VR section. For me, reading the questions first and then the passage helped to improve my score. I've read others' posts claiming similar results. Spending just one more year to get into a med school, I think, is worth the time.
You can also apply to schools in US and Canada. I don't know if for you AUS schools are the only consideration, but with your overall MCAT score and GPA, I think you have a chance in US and Canadian med schools.
University of Queensland in AUS this year admitted students with a 7 if overall MCAT score was above 24. If they do the same next year and if you apply early, I think you will have no problem getting in for UQ.
Good luck.

 

[Acheron]

VR:7 PS:14 BS:10 WR: O Total: 31O
GPA: 3.71
so... 1 point away from the minimum requirement. i dedicated my entire 3months of this summer just for studying MCAT and only for applying to Australian schools next year. I'm a Canadian citizen (in the 4th yr of college in US now)but I moved from Korea when I was gr.7 , so yea, I'm bilingual.

My goal/dream schools : Sydney &Melbourne&ANU
I really debated whether or not to post this question here cuz it's a kind of ridiculous topic that's been far from the convention of Aussie Med schools...but...

what if I send a Letter of Intent along w/ my transcript ? I've seen some, if not many, US applicants doing this in the past for their US Med Schools in the hope of giving it a slight more edge to their application. Letter of Intent is basically where applicants are selling themselves by writing why they deserve to be in medicine and etc in order to cover their weak areas in the application (i.e poor GPA, poor MCAT score, minimal amount of ECs.... etc)

But of course, US Med schools don't have any clear cut-off MCAT scores, which would make the purpose of the letter somewhat different from that of my own...

Yea.. requirement is requirement ...I know that's the reality but i mean..being just 1 point away (or just 1 VR Question, really) from at least having a chance to attend an interview and show my passion towards medicine really depresses me....I have always been so eager to go into medicine ever since I was young and throughout the entire past 4 yrs of my college here in US, thinking, someday, I will be there.

And Yes, I have plenty of time to retake and I will most likely do so next year after I graduate (2010 June). But retaking doesn't quite gurantee I will make an 8... BUT... next time, I will make sure to put uber extra amount of work and effort to make an 8...if that's what medicine entails...sure. I'm more than willing to stand up again for challenge.

BUT ! I'm just really curious what people think of my idea. I have that O in my writing section to show that I actually have a quite decent ability to write and communicate ...which kinda gives me this feelling that if I try to appeal the adcoms with some persuasive essays that can prove my writing skills and describe personal goals& feelings&achievements, they could give me a chance?

Oh, btw, the U of Melbourne hasn't released its MCAT cut-off scores for its new MD program, but I'm fairly sure that it will have 8/8/8 O or something like that, which has been the official requirement for the past MBBS program...(though I'm praying hard it won't have any cutoff...lol)


I'm will also ask Matt in Oztrekk sometime later, but just wanna get ur advice & opinions first.

Thanks for ur help on this !

I think right now you are a decent candidate for all 3 schools. I know they boast that they want an 8/8/8 minimum MCAT but I highly doubt they don't consider you, given that your 31 is competitive.

From things I've gathered about UniMelb & USyd the MCAT score is somewhat flexible. Don't get me wrong, if I were you I'd definitely retake it and try to get a better verbal but if you can't I think you stand a good chance at getting an interview at both of these schools with your current stats.

USyd's admission doesn't factor in GPA its just a 2.7 hurdle, given that your GPA is a whole point over that it makes you somewhat less competitive at USyd. Admission there is 50/50 based on MCAT & Interview. However, it is known that most of the students accepted into USyd have an MCAT in the low 30s so you are good in that regard.

UniMelb's admission is 1/3 GPA, MCAT, and Interview. You are quite strong in 2/3 (obviously you haven't been interviewed yet). They also only say that the minimum MCAT is 24. However, doesn't say that you need a minimum of 8 in each section, although it is somewhat implied.

I don't know much about ANU. Sorry.

Think realistically though. A school isn't going to admit somebody who scored a 9/9/9 over you just because they had the minimum of 8. You're still the better applicant, especially at UniMelb.

 

[shan564]

Agreed (with Acheron). They've been known to make exceptions, especially with the VR score. Considering that your PS score is so good, you might actually have a shot... call them and ask. You might also consider taking the GAMSAT.

 

[ts87v]

oops, just got a reply email from Usyd admission person saying that "for the interest of equity and fairness to all applicants" those who do not meet the admission requirements won't be considered... lol..

I'm retaking next year.... FiNe !
I really wonder if i can bring that 7 up to an 8..but even if my retake VR score turns out the same or even worse, I'm still gonna apply just to bug them off a little...lol....jk

yea, maybe i do have a shot at UQ, but i have read so many threads here saying UQ is turning into a degree-selling institution with an increased number of international spots and that new ochsner program being explicitly advertised on the sdn main page... which kinda scares me.

And I'm thinking that the admission pool for U of Melb next yr will be HELLA competitive with their brand-new MD program coming out (which means nothing really but it just sounds a little nicer to those who are more familar with the acronym MD rather than MBBS), so against that huge pool of applicants with stellar stats (from what i gathered on this forum, I'm guesstimating about a little over 600 people will apply next year for those 80 spots) I guess my 31 O with that 7 on VR won't even be looked upon anyway...although i still might give it a shot!

oh, and ANU is now out of my sight& reach now lol, cuz i just found out somewhere that they accepted only 8 people last year, despite their announced quota being "up to 20 places"...FML...

I donno,.. i'm getting a headache now thinking about what to do next year... I really wanted to go either of those three schools and things aren't looking great due to that darn 7 on VR... (well, actually that 10 I made on the BS was mediocre at best...which i should improve ....and I don't think i will be able to make that 14 again on any retake...cuz my average on the practice was 12~13 and i have no clue how i did that)

well....thank you all three for great advice though.. some really good suggestions & encouragement

ok, back to study & hw now

 

[dragonfly99]

ts,
internal medicine fellow here.
Do not give up on medicine if that is what you want to do.
If you got 10/14 on the other sections and a decent score on the writing sample, and a 3.7+ GPA, I am not worried that you can't do the work in med school. You need to retake the MCAT and raise your verbal score...you can do it. Go for some special tutoring by some place like Princeton Review or Kaplan. I think you should also put yourself on a reading program...not science books, but things like the New York Times newspaper, to increase your reading speed and reading comprehension. If I were reading med school apps., I would take into consideration a person's native language, and although I'm sure you are bilingual, would think that having parents for whom English is not the native language could potentially make a high verbal score more challenging (I'm assuming parents didn't speak English to you as primary language @home growing up). However, we all know the admissions process is not perfect and sometimes people are looking for cutoffs/reasons to throw out applications since they have so many qualified applicants.

You are very young. Don't get overly frustrated or bail out yet. I also think you should consider applying to US schools, especially if you can raise your verbal score a couple of points. However, I'm no authority on what your chances would be at US schools...there might be a few that would give you a shot. Also, are Ireland and St. George or SABA U. considered good options for Canadians right now? Even if not your first option, might be worth considering as a backup.

 

[dragonfly99]

Also, don't obsess about the MCAT to the exclusion of all else in your application. Particularly if considering any US schools, medical volunteer work/clinical experience is considered key and they often add up the number of volunteer hours you have.

 

[Acheron]

oops, just got a reply email from Usyd admission person saying that "for the interest of equity and fairness to all applicants" those who do not meet the admission requirements won't be considered... lol..

I'm retaking next year.... FiNe !
I really wonder if i can bring that 7 up to an 8..but even if my retake VR score turns out the same or even worse, I'm still gonna apply just to bug them off a little...lol....jk

yea, maybe i do have a shot at UQ, but i have read so many threads here saying UQ is turning into a degree-selling institution with an increased number of international spots and that new ochsner program being explicitly advertised on the sdn main page... which kinda scares me.

And I'm thinking that the admission pool for U of Melb next yr will be HELLA competitive with their brand-new MD program coming out (which means nothing really but it just sounds a little nicer to those who are more familar with the acronym MD rather than MBBS), so against that huge pool of applicants with stellar stats (from what i gathered on this forum, I'm guesstimating about a little over 600 people will apply next year for those 80 spots) I guess my 31 O with that 7 on VR won't even be looked upon anyway...although i still might give it a shot!

oh, and ANU is now out of my sight& reach now lol, cuz i just found out somewhere that they accepted only 8 people last year, despite their announced quota being "up to 20 places"...FML...

I donno,.. i'm getting a headache now thinking about what to do next year... I really wanted to go either of those three schools and things aren't looking great due to that darn 7 on VR... (well, actually that 10 I made on the BS was mediocre at best...which i should improve ....and I don't think i will be able to make that 14 again on any retake...cuz my average on the practice was 12~13 and i have no clue how i did that)

well....thank you all three for great advice though.. some really good suggestions & encouragement

ok, back to study & hw now

You are honestly a very competitive candidate for US & Canadian schools. Not knocking Australia at all but that at least means you are an extremely competitive international applicant, its just that the US & Canada schools are known to be insanely competitive.

The USyd admissions officer has to stick to policy but I promise you no school is going to give more credence to an applicant with a lesser MCAT score if everything else is the same.

Furthermore, with your stats you are a VERY good candidate for UniMelb. Heck, you are competitive for North American schools (and I'm not knocking Australia, but getting into Med School in NA is much harder than AUS). Don't doubt yourself. Retake the MCATs, if you don't beat that 7 on verbal don't sweat it.

I like the advice that you should take a course. Adding a point isn't the hardest thing to do. I took a course and the first time I took the MCATs got a 10 BS, 10 PS, 9 VR. However, I think I choked because on my practice exams I was averaging about an 11/11/11. Prior to the course my MCAT scores were in the 8-9 range on each section of practice exams.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

Honestly do not waste your time with Australia, with your GPA and MCAT, you should be competitive for a US school. And trust me North Americans whine left and right once coming to Oz about how everything is better back home. Trust me you are going to miss mommy and daddy once you get here.

Oh and they will not make an exception for your 7. One of my friends just applied this year and had a very low mark on one MCAT section, they told him to retake the exam.

 

[jaketheory]

Honestly do not waste your time with Australia, with your GPA and MCAT, you should be competitive for a US school. And trust me North Americans whine left and right once coming to Oz about how everything is better back home. Trust me you are going to miss mommy and daddy once you get here.

Oh and they will not make an exception for your 7. One of my friends just applied this year and had a very low mark on one MCAT section, they told him to retake the exam.

i'm wondering what you sat on Janikey. cuz you must have something stuck up there to say such harsh things. There are many North Americans in Australia and many of us choose to come here not simply cuz we feel we had no other choice.

i really dont think you should be spilling out such nonsense as "you are going to miss mommy and daddy once you get here". that is just rubbish.

and as others have noted, some schools have made exceptions wih MCAT scores.

why do you even hang around this forum if the only things you have to say are negatve? why dont you go find something which you are positive about and troll and post in boards related to that rather than here?

 

[ts87v]

dragonfly,
Yea, I know for a fact that many US med schools consider ones' bilingualism as a disadvantage and give a slight leniency towards the VR score, but even then the admission standard of the internationals has been rising rapidly (as it's been for the locals and others) due to increased number of applications for a very limited # of international spots...so i assume that i need a VR score well over an 8 to at least have a chance for an interview...

And to raise my VR, maybe i need to get a tutor or something just to get some tips on how to approach the passages and whatnot, but i donno if i I will take the course since currently I don't feel like wasting anymore $$$ on just MCAT prep lol (i already spent quite a lot for my first take). So... I will see what I will do about that next yr.

But as you said, even if I raise my VR score up to an 8 or better, I need to focus more on getting good EC's and letters of rec. which are more important; however, I haven't been preparing for those since my 3rd year because I was so firmly determined to go to Aussie medschools by then, so that I just changed my gear towards the Aussie medschool admission standard, which only uses GPA and MCAT as a decision factor. I stopped all my outside-school activities as I turned junior because I found that the door for the US med schools as an international is essentially closed, unless i become a summa cum laude who is being provincially or nationally recognized in every field of academics (maybe I was being too realistic here). But the point is, even tho I loved doing volunteers at the hospitals and working in a research lab, it sort of came to me as, "why not just do the work I need to do?" and started to concentrate on making good grades and mcat prep.

So I highly doubt that I'm still competitive given that my EC's aren't that steller, but it's good that I've done quite many of them during my first and second year, cuz now I have at least something to write about on my EC column of the application.

Maybe I still gotta give it a shot to the US schools next yr tho, just to see how well I will match up against those rock star internationals lol, although I'd be quite surprised if i get any interview.

Thanks for you inspiring words and advice; I'm never giving it up, that's right. Someday, I hope I will stand where you are right now!



Acheron,
I could probably be competitive with my 31 MCAT back in about a decade where there weren't as many internationals applying to med school as nowadays. The reality is, those acceptees to the US schools for the last couple of years(majority of them being Canadians) seemed to have MCAT score of 35+ with >3.8GPA with a long list of EC's and several letters of rec. which makes my chance quite slim...

I donno if I'm going to be alright for UMelb tho. I sent an inquiry to Oztrekk and they said I'd need a lot higher than an 8 in VR to be competitive for the new MD program, because the competition next yr is expected to be FIERCE.

Anyhow, I will do everything I can to bring up my stats until next May and June when the aussie and US applications open up.

Thanks for ur words.



JanikeyDoc,
Yea, I'm very aware of how hard it is for international graduates to come back to NA (obviously I've been reading and studying quite a lot of threads on here) But as some pple suggest, the door for an internship position isn't completely shut, whether it be in Aussie or U.S.

Also, I'm pretty good at handling homesickness wherever I go now, cuz I've been living here down in the states alone for the last 4 yrs of my undergrad lol... And plus I have a homestay experience when I first came to canada 7yrs ago, not knowing any english basically, but I endured pretty well with that little electronic dictionary on my side . So, I'm sure I will be alright if I happen to get down to Aussie for med school.

thanks for ur advice !


jaketheory,

lol I didn't realize he was being a bit derisive until I saw ur post.

 

[Transition]

to be honest ts87v, you have some very strong stats! congrats on those! Frankly, you're almost there to getting offers (assuming you interview well)...

All you need, and this is not much, are 2-3 more questions answered correctly in VR of the MCAT. That will bring you up from the 7 to an 8 or 9. That's not much!

So, the first time I wrote my MCAT, I got a very very low score in verbal. I blame it partly on personal stuff and partly on having followed Kaplan's verbal formula strictly. I then restudied and came out with a much more decent and indicative score.

The thing is, if you can get those extra 3 points on VR, you would be golden for the US or Canada. Just 1 more for Australia. That's a difference of 2-3 questions.

Unfortunately, I would not bank on getting exceptions made from schools. From my experiences, most of the Aussie schools are not every lenient with their requirements (other than UQ - I'd avoid this with your stats). I had a colleague with a 36P (12/12/12) on his MCAT that was 3 years old (Aus schools have a deadline of 2 years) and the only school that would make an exception was Wollongong (very friendly and understanding staff). Not sure if these strict adherence to reqs would carry over to min scores, but I don't see why it wouldn't.

Just a bit more... you can do it!

If you want tips on improving in VR, I'd be happy to help. Just ask here or shoot me a PM.

Edit: an aside note - with a 31P/3.6 (OMSAS) GPA, I got interview offers from USyd, Monash Gippsland, UoW, Flinders and Deakin but did not receive one from ANU. It seems ANU is the toughest for internationals to gain entry right now. I'm not sure if UMelb will be in that region, but if they are as competitive as Flinders or USyd, I don't see them making an exception for their minimum reqs. Best thing you can do? Email the schools... they're usually very responsive. See the Australian Medical Schools post in my blog (link in signature).
Good luck!