UNM neurosurg residents send letter to ACGME, program promptly shut down

[Krukenberg]

residents complained of poor education, program shut down promptly by ACGME. Hospital doubling the number of neurosurgeons and hiring 23 APPs to replace labor of eight residents.
Residents at abusive, crap programs: take notice

Residents complained before loss of accreditation, UNM says

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[fiji128]

I'm really surprised that the ACGME did anything other then a slap on the wrist. That must have been one terrible program for all that to happen.

 

[medgator]

I'm really surprised that the ACGME did anything other then a slap on the wrist. That must have been one terrible program for all that to happen.

Sounds like the caseload was mostly trauma related.

I'm sure the acgme would be happy to shut down some RO programs where residents treat a ton of mets, once the RRC gets its act together and strengthens case requirements

 

[baculum1]

Some very bad rad onc programs out there that need to follow suit, nothing but scut zero education and they would have to hire like twice the number of providers to replace residents. Please post names, we know who you are!!!

 

[fiji128]

Some very bad rad onc programs out there that need to follow suit, nothing but scut zero education and they would have to hire like twice the number of providers to replace residents. Please post names, we know who you are!!!

I don't think the ACGME looks at the "quality" of a program. It just looks at a list of requirements and if they are documented and meat then that is sufficient. Are case loads numbers adquate, check. Is there something on the weekly schedule for resident education, check. Are such and such processes in place for a resident to file a compliant, check. ect ect.

Rad bio is good example of this. How many programs actually really teach a quality rad bio curriculum? Maybe 20% if that? But all the ACGME cares about is the number of hours it is taught every year and that someone who works in a lab teaches it. Says nothing about the quality of said instruction.

 

[baculum1]

I don't think the ACGME looks at the "quality" of a program. It just looks at a list of requirements and if they are documented and meat then that is sufficient. Are case loads numbers adquate, check. Is there something on the weekly schedule for resident education, check. Are such and such processes in place for a resident to file a compliant, check. ect ect.

Rad bio is good example of this. How many programs actually really teach a quality rad bio curriculum? Maybe 20% if that? But all the ACGME cares about is the number of hours it is taught every year and that someone who works in a lab teaches it. Says nothing about the quality of said instruction.

At the very least warn people about the no good, no education, no help getting jobs training program you went to, it is unlikely these places have changed at all. The energy will always be for keeping status quo. Many bad programs out there and you all KNOW IT

 

[GapCalc]

I don't think the ACGME looks at the "quality" of a program. It just looks at a list of requirements and if they are documented and meat then that is sufficient. Are case loads numbers adquate, check. Is there something on the weekly schedule for resident education, check. Are such and such processes in place for a resident to file a compliant, check. ect ect.

This is correct. Per the ACGME Big Wigs, their lawyers specifically train new ACGME members to not consider the job market when determining whether or not to approve a new program or existing program expansion. If all the appropriate boxes get checked (adequate cases, adequate supervision, adequate education, etc) then they get approved.

That's why many of us have pushed for more 'comprehensive' qualifications that would necessarily limit residency training to places that could do everything without necessitating residents going to do an external rotation at another site. For example, if a residency program can't provide training on-site for adequate SBRT and brachytherapy volumes, they shouldn't be training residents.

For med students crazy enough to consider rad onc, I would say that they should go to places that don't have to send them away for additional training. Sometimes that external training requires a resident to pay for a sub-lease/AirBnB on their own dime. Pretty rough.

 

[evilbooyaa]

ACGME highly considers duty hour violations as a rationale. This is an issue for NSG programs, and I don't think breaking 80 hours a week would ever be an issue in a Rad Onc department (or at least rate if it is).

This is apples and oranges. Good on the ACGME for acting quickly but if people are hoping for a similar blitzkrieg in Rad Onc I think it's unlikely.

Sure concerns about case volume are a concern on this forum but as long as the requirements are still as ridiculously low as they are in Rad Onc it's not going to cause any similar actions. Only chance we're going to see programs close due to lack of case volume is if RRC massively overhauls the minimum requirements.

 

[Krukenberg]

ACGME highly considers duty hour violations as a rationale. This is an issue for NSG programs, and I don't think breaking 80 hours a week would ever be an issue in a Rad Onc department (or at least rate if it is).

This is apples and oranges. Good on the ACGME for acting quickly but if people are hoping for a similar blitzkrieg in Rad Onc I think it's unlikely.

Sure concerns about case volume are a concern on this forum but as long as the requirements are still as ridiculously low as they are in Rad Onc it's not going to cause any similar actions. Only chance we're going to see programs close due to lack of case volume is if RRC massively overhauls the minimum requirements.

It’s not all about case volume. Things that get talked about on this board like retaliation against residents are taken very seriously by ACGME. I think at the least this will make programs scared of ignoring resident complaints about educational quality.
I hope residents at crap programs realize they have more power than they think in the form of the annual ACGME program survey

 

[RickyScott]

I am sure stony brook is a crap program if there ever was one.

 

[radoncgrad2019]

Programs to absolutely stay away from - Cornell, BCM, UTMB, Nebraska, Jefferson.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

This is a buyer’s market this year folks. Canaries will speak. Look forward to seeing the unmatched list. Very good news in a few months, the purge will begin

 

[deleted573262]

This is a buyer’s market this year folks. Canaries will speak. Look forward to seeing the unmatched list. Very good news in a few months, the purge will begin

possible. i bet many IMGs will fill soap spots. foreign grads have much different incentives (less debt and fewer residency options). residency spots are locking them into visas and career opportunities in the usa. it's a win for an IMG to soap. it's a win for bad programs ie, stony brook to have someone to do their work. i do hope we get a purge. increasing case requirements would help.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

I love that they had to hire 23 NPs to "slow them down" as much as the 8 residents did.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

possible. i bet many IMGs will fill soap spots. foreign grads have much different incentives (less debt and fewer residency options). residency spots are locking them into visas and career opportunities in the usa. it's a win for an IMG to soap. it's a win for bad programs ie, stony brook to have someone to do their work. i do hope we get a purge. increasing case requirements would help.

thats fine these programs will be known publicly who they are. Some of them already posted, do your research people, read in between lines. Many terrible programs

 

[RickyScott]

we should have ranking for worst programs in radonc

 

[PhotonBomb]

we should have ranking for worst programs in radonc

I would posit that BCM and UTMB are easily nominees for the worst in the business. I'm sure some other bad ones, but those are the ones I am intimately aware of in my neck of the woods.

 

[RickyScott]

You think they could take on stony brook? I did not know it existed

 

[PhotonBomb]

Idk anything about stony brook. Im sure also terrible. no clue why anyone would willingly rank these bad programs in this climate.

 

[FrostyHammer]

This is a buyer’s market this year folks. Canaries will speak. Look forward to seeing the unmatched list. Very good news in a few months, the purge will begin

"Execute Order 66"

 

[thecarbonionangle]

"Execute Order 66"

you’re onto something there. You got it.
I think we have to retire a lot of these bad no good programs. I am glad people are naming them on this platform. Please name more.

When we are all making our line in the breadline, like people lining up early for a Trump rally in Hershey or people lining up for the new XBOX a few days before black friday, we will think what did i do during this time before i lined up asking for bread? If you’re not doing anything you’re sleeping