There are plenty of children who have genetic abnormalities who are born terminally ill. In fact, many are and medicine intervenes to keep them alive.
Well, there aren’t healthy children in the ICU. That doesn’t make any sense. It’s not called intensive care because kids are well.
I haven't changed the subject. You brought up chromosomal abnormalities:
Well, you brought up genetics initially, but that’s okay.
So people that have sex should be punished by being forced to have a child they don't want? Sex has a huge innate biological drive. If you're a doctor do you have this same condescending attitude towards all of your patients? Do you go around saying "well you wouldn't have had a heart attack if you didn't eat like crap." "Welp you have end stage lung cancer, kind of what you get for smoking!"
Dealing with these issues was going to be inevitable with the overruling. I do not deny that those people have and may continue to endure suffering. And no, those cases are unacceptable to me.
It is a fair comparison in context to telling people their health outcome is that they get if they do something that can cause a poor health outcome. I think pro choice arguments hold up greatly. The pregnant woman is the one who has to endure the risk and struggle of carrying the fetus to term so they get the say in if they want to do that.
No, I did not decide that, nor did I make that statement.
You're now defining pregnancy as a poor health outcome. That's broad strokes at best and unfair at least.
"Dealing with these issues was going to be inevitable with the overruling. I do not deny that those people have and may continue to endure suffering." But you did, your quote is right here. By claiming that these issues were going to be inevitable means that you predicted the outcome. Your stance on the issue shows you are alright with it. In fact, saying that it may continue and being alright with the ruling is further proof that you, as a doctor/future doctor, are okay with pregnant women suffering and dying as long as the fetus has to be born.
So if people do something that all of their ancestors did that is biologically hardwired in their brain to do, they deserve to be stuck with a baby they don't want? If you've ever had sex without the intention of being/ getting someone pregnant this is a very hypocritical stance to take.
I'm not sure getting an abortion means consequence free sex
It always strikes me as odd that considering there are 11.6 million children in poverty and and 250000 children in foster care, that no one really champions their cause as much.
No one? I’m a pediatrician. I work every day to help those types of kids.
No. Again, you and anyone else here can put words in my mouth, but it doesn’t make it so. I don’t accuse you of being ok with butchering babies. I’m just stating facts that support my beliefs.
How do you lift a child out of poverty as a pediatrician?
Can’t tell if you’re serious, but I’ll assume the best of you and answer.
Carrying for a medically complex child can certainly be straining on the family.
I don’t disagree with you. These families and children need and deserve our support. Two of my cousins were mentally handicapped and actually lived at the facility I now serve. They may not have been “normal” as some would call it, but they were beautiful and innocent. With help, they were able to live happy lives up until their death. They also brought joy and purpose to many others. They were one of the reasons I chose to become a pediatrician.
Yeah, brain death is very much dead, just like it was 100 years ago and since the beginning of time. When you got kicked the head by a horse and you herniated, you didn’t die of ARDS or an MI, you died because your brain was squeezed out of your skull. The fact that technology can temporarily support the leftover organs has led to so much confusion amongst the lay public. In my decade plus of doing critical care, this issue has become worse and worse.
Viewing human lives as punishments is a disgusting point of view.
So fetuses are human lives now in your opinion? And it's only a punishment if the individual feels that way and doesn't want to deal with the outcome of their choice
Well a fetus isn't a baby yet so that would just be factually inaccurate. Okay since you have a hard time accepting that you said you were okay with the suffering or death of pregnant women lets apply what you've said to another scenario. Let's say you come to me and go "proudfather, New York just passed a stop and frisk law and now the police can stop and search everyone!" And I go "that's great that will keep the communities safer" then you go "but this is effecting African Americans more than anyone else, they're being stopped and searched exponentially more than white people!" And I go "well that's inevitable and may be a problem into the future." Wouldn't you claim that I'm indifferent to the mistreatment of African Americans by the police? That's basically your view towards abortion, but you say people are putting words in your mouth when they tell you this.
They could donate a good chunk of their money to needy families and start fundraising organizations, but it's easier to force a woman to have their rape baby and tell them it's on them now.
Yeah I'm sure most people who have one have a ton of emotional trauma from it.
We have delt with those things you mentioned in the first paragraph by forming society. We have made it so that those behaviors are socially unacceptable and raise our children to not engage in fighting the neighbor for their pool. I just don't see why you are saying a baby is a punishment for sex. Sometimes things happen that are out of our control or despite best intentions to prevent it a pregnancy occurs. The risk and responsibility of having a child belongs to the pregnant woman, why do you feel that you have the right to tell them what to do with that fetus? Especially in a society like ours where there is a huge lack of social safety nets.
You're advocating that they all reach the point of viability, at which point they become a life that only exists as a consequence
That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that killing an innocent child is not justifiable.
It's not a child it's a fetus. It is what you said you can deny it if you want but you said these issues were inevitable and they show you are okay with them. To people like you fetus>women.
I'm still confused by this. Like if a child is born with anencephaly and the parents want that child and all the misery associated with it... I'm like "cool, whatever" (though I think they should pay for the cost... not society... but let's say they got Jeff Bezos money to make the argument easier).
How do you know if the fetus will be alive come time of birth? Plenty of fetuses die being a fetus doesn't guarantee that they will become a baby. If the baby dies before they are even born are they still the "child" of the parents? I'll be honest, the terminology that you're stating in the second paragraph is pretty foreign to me. Obviously you have had a better education than I had leading to medical school. Still, you said the outcome that is happening now was inevitable, which means that you predicted that it would happen, and are alright with it given your stance on the issue. That means you do hold the life of the fetus above the mother that is carrying it.
No. That child, although a unique individual, would have no potential for higher level brain functioning at anytime. THAT child would be the equivalent to the brain death discussion we were having. Their functioning will never change and has no potential to - which is why I think it’s fine to unplug a brain dead patient and allow them to complete the process of death.
I do not. You will never find me making an argument based on religion. It has no grounds in this debate. Especially not in the United States.
But you said brain dead is not dead. So by that metric, you are killing an innocent child.
Correct. If a braindead person were dead, you wouldn’t have to unplug them.
They don't get unplugged, they don't get a service for something they don't have, which is life. Otherwise, it would be like sending a bill for running water in a vacant lot.
Ah, the moral high ground.
Unfortunately that's just what doctors in red states are going to have to do. If they all treat the patient too soon and lose their license then nobody gets care. I would blame the politicians and the people who voted them in as they are practicing medicine without a license and caused this mess.Abortion laws spark profound changes in other medical care
The Supreme Court's decision to let states outlaw most abortions is having profound repercussions in reproductive medicine as well as in other areas of medical care.apnews.com
Ah, the moral high ground.
