Pharmacy Job Market

[owlegrad]

Please keep you discussion of the pharmacy job market limited to this thread.

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[PA_dud3]

 

[projektreverb]

I was talking with a P4 student over the weekend who got offered a float position in a semi large midwestern city with happy healthy. Couldn't confirm how many hours yet but it was 59$ an hour.

 

[projektreverb]

I find it interesting that in the Pharmacy Job Outlook thread, they were talking about saturation and over supply as early as 2005, back when sign on bonuses were still a thing!

 

[gwarm01]

Quoting a post of mine from a few months ago. For context, I'm posting the results of the UAMS annual graduating class salary surgery. This was to demonstrate that even rural states are feeling the pinch of saturation. What sticks out to me is the steady and continued trend downward over the past decade.

Original post:

How did the graduating class from the respected state university fair in 2018?

55% offered a job.
24% believed the job market was good, down from 48% last year.
Average salary of 109k, which was a nearly 5% drop from the previous year.
Average student loan burden: 134k.

This is a seriously steep decline since my time there. We were always excited to see the salary survey because average pay always went up 5-10%. I think the year I graduated was the first time it declined, although it was only by a fraction of a percent and was played off as a statistical anomaly.

Update 2: Here is a nice trend from the past several years.

2015: 88% accepted a position, average salary $120,657, 68% felt opportunities were excellent or good.
2016: 89% accepted a position, average salary $119,168, 63% felt opportunities were excellent or good.
2017: 78% accepted a position, average salary $115,155, 48% felt opportunities were excellent or good.
2018: 55% accepted a position, average salary $109,620, 24% felt opportunities were excellent or good.

If this is how we are doing in a booming economy with rock-bottom unemployment, how will we handle the next recession?

 

[UCSF2021]

NDSU PHARMACY SURVEY

Average
2014: 98K
2015: 90K
2016: 92K
2017: 99K

 

[youRCC]

Does this job market thread include discussions about pharmacist pay? CA, government...we've hit $40/hour

I know government positions pay the least but damn...

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Does this job market thread include discussions about pharmacist pay? CA, government...we've hit $40/hour

I know government positions pay the least but damn...

Government salary postings are not always accurate. I worked for a government hospital before. When I applied the posted salary was about 70-85k range. My actual salary upon being hired was 112k I think.

 

[zelman]

View attachment 244416

How many pharmacist positions have you been offered?

 

[PA_dud3]

How many pharmacist positions have you been offered?

Tons, bro, the market is so good right now they're hiring pharmacists who haven't even been to pharmacy school yet

 

[Modest_anteater]

Does this job market thread include discussions about pharmacist pay? CA, government...we've hit $40/hour

I know government positions pay the least but damn...

please don't use acronyms without defining them. CA could be California or Canada. By doing this it lowers the signal and increases the noise of your post.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

please don't use acronyms without defining them. CA could be California or Canada. By doing this it lowers the signal and increases the noise of your post.

If it was in Canada, it would have been spelled "Behavioural Health", thus denoting which locale it is becomes redundant and time wasting.

Apologize to this man.

 

[JustFillIt]

Tons, bro, the market is so good right now they're hiring pharmacists who haven't even been to pharmacy school yet

Haha! You turkey! I gotta say though - I don’t know if you can match my level of sarcasm that I had in that other post.

Alright - for real positive contribution. I consider myself fortunate to be in a stable high paying position... I have had 2 conversations in the past 6 weeks which was someone else asking me to apply for decent full time open positions... So on my end it’s good. However, I do live in a very rural community.

 

[BC_89]

I’m nothing short of intrigued with the idea of working in BFE Alaska or backwoods Kansas catching lake trout or hunting deer on what free time I may be able to gain.

working 7 on 7 off would be fantastic...If not I’ll apply VA hospital as a disabled veteran or work part time with my outside stream of steady monthly income..... Oh the possibilities

 

[owlegrad]

Haha! You turkey! I gotta say though - I don’t know if you can match my level of sarcasm that I had in that other post.

If we are competing for "most sarcastic" I have already won. I won "Most Sarcastic" in my class. I am a sarcasm machine - It's literally in my title right there <--

 

[PA_dud3]

If we are competing for "most sarcastic" I have already won. I won "Most Sarcastic" in my class. I am a sarcasm machine - It's literally in my title right there <--

Hail to the King, hahaha

 

[gwarm01]

I’m nothing short of intrigued with the idea of working in BFE Alaska or backwoods Kansas catching lake trout or hunting deer on what free time I may be able to gain.

working 7 on 7 off would be fantastic...If not I’ll apply VA hospital as a disabled veteran or work part time with my outside stream of steady monthly income..... Oh the possibilities

Now we're talking. I've never successfully caught a lake trout, though truthfully I've only ever tried once. I've caught plenty of rainbow, brown, and brook trout back home though. I've been less successful since moving out west, but I haven't ventured too far from town. The only interesting things I've caught here is a tiny salmon and an even tinier sculpin.

 

[BC_89]

Now we're talking. I've never successfully caught a lake trout, though truthfully I've only ever tried once. I've caught plenty of rainbow, brown, and brook trout back home though. I've been less successful since moving out west, but I haven't ventured too far from town. The only interesting things I've caught here is a tiny salmon and an even tinier sculpin.

I’d venture to say your attempts are more than most others who may / may not know a brook from a brown

(I’ve had to plan my trips outside the Midwest for the angler trout this time of year.)

 

[Modest_anteater]

How will this Are You Ready for the Financial Crisis of 2019? + saturation effect the job market for new grads?

 

[lane one]

Quoting a post of mine from a few months ago. For context, I'm posting the results of the UAMS annual graduating class salary surgery. This was to demonstrate that even rural states are feeling the pinch of saturation. What sticks out to me is the steady and continued trend downward over the past decade.

Original post:

How did the graduating class from the respected state university fair in 2018?

55% offered a job.
24% believed the job market was good, down from 48% last year.
Average salary of 109k, which was a nearly 5% drop from the previous year.
Average student loan burden: 134k.

This is a seriously steep decline since my time there. We were always excited to see the salary survey because average pay always went up 5-10%. I think the year I graduated was the first time it declined, although it was only by a fraction of a percent and was played off as a statistical anomaly.

Update 2: Here is a nice trend from the past several years.

2015: 88% accepted a position, average salary $120,657, 68% felt opportunities were excellent or good.
2016: 89% accepted a position, average salary $119,168, 63% felt opportunities were excellent or good.
2017: 78% accepted a position, average salary $115,155, 48% felt opportunities were excellent or good.
2018: 55% accepted a position, average salary $109,620, 24% felt opportunities were excellent or good.

If this is how we are doing in a booming economy with rock-bottom unemployment, how will we handle the next recession?

Interesting data there. Can anyone comment on pharmacy impact of the 2008 financial crisis? I wasn't practicing then, but I've always thought of healthcare demand as inelastic, meaning the impact of economic recession should be less severe than other industries. Of course, that doesn't stop the chains from leaning out even more to pare their losses on the front store side. Thoughts?

 

[wamcp]

Quoting a post of mine from a few months ago. For context, I'm posting the results of the UAMS annual graduating class salary surgery. This was to demonstrate that even rural states are feeling the pinch of saturation. What sticks out to me is the steady and continued trend downward over the past decade.

Original post:

How did the graduating class from the respected state university fair in 2018?

55% offered a job.
24% believed the job market was good, down from 48% last year.
Average salary of 109k, which was a nearly 5% drop from the previous year.
Average student loan burden: 134k.

This is a seriously steep decline since my time there. We were always excited to see the salary survey because average pay always went up 5-10%. I think the year I graduated was the first time it declined, although it was only by a fraction of a percent and was played off as a statistical anomaly.

Update 2: Here is a nice trend from the past several years.

2015: 88% accepted a position, average salary $120,657, 68% felt opportunities were excellent or good.
2016: 89% accepted a position, average salary $119,168, 63% felt opportunities were excellent or good.
2017: 78% accepted a position, average salary $115,155, 48% felt opportunities were excellent or good.
2018: 55% accepted a position, average salary $109,620, 24% felt opportunities were excellent or good.

If this is how we are doing in a booming economy with rock-bottom unemployment, how will we handle the next recession?

After adjusting for inflation, the 2018 salary of 109620 is actually equal to 104962 of buying power in 2015 dollars.

So, the change in salary over 3 years is actually even lower

 

[wamcp]

I was talking with a P4 student over the weekend who got offered a float position in a semi large midwestern city with happy healthy. Couldn't confirm how many hours yet but it was 59$ an hour.

Is this the typical hourly rate for pharmacists??? What about doing a night shift at a hospital, is the rate higher?

I have no skin in this matter, but as a hospitalist I’m currently receiving 225 to 250 an hour to cover daytime admitting or night shifts....seems like a huge contrast (In fact, I am at work right now, very bored and browsing SDN..only had 1 admission and 1 rapid response call so far)

 

[PharmDminus]

Is this the typical hourly rate for pharmacists??? What about doing a night shift at a hospital, is the rate higher?

I have no skin in this matter, but as a hospitalist I’m currently receiving 225 to 250 an hour to cover daytime admitting or night shifts....seems like a huge contrast (In fact, I am at work right now, very bored and browsing SDN..only had 1 admission and 1 rapid response call so far)

you are earning over 400k/year as a hospitalist?

 

[PharmDminus]

Is this the typical hourly rate for pharmacists??? What about doing a night shift at a hospital, is the rate higher?

I have no skin in this matter, but as a hospitalist I’m currently receiving 225 to 250 an hour to cover daytime admitting or night shifts....seems like a huge contrast (In fact, I am at work right now, very bored and browsing SDN..only had 1 admission and 1 rapid response call so far)

the standard premium for most hospital night shift RPh is to work 70 hours and be paid for 80 (roughly 15% premium)

 

[wamcp]

you are earning over 400k/year as a hospitalist?

Yes, close to 600k/ year at my current pace. That is by working a lot of moonlighting and night/evening admitting shifts though. I work on average so far this year, 22 shifts a month varying from 8 to 12h in length.

I have been on the other end of the spectrum as a hospitalist. I used to work daytime academic hospitalist downtown in a big city at garbage pay rates. I had to work 25 to 26 shifts a month to achieve 380k in a year.

 

[PharmDminus]

Yes, close to 600k/ year at my current pace. That is by working a lot of moonlighting and night/evening admitting shifts though. I work on average so far this year, 22 shifts a month varying from 8 to 12h in length.

I have been on the other end of the spectrum as a hospitalist. I used to work daytime academic hospitalist downtown in a big city at garbage pay rates. I had to work 25 to 26 shifts a month to achieve 380k in a year.

you have supply and demand on your side, the pharmacy profession used to have that as well but the scales tipped the other way 5 years ago or so. Our salaries were rising quickly, now they are dropping just as fast. One advantage of ovenights is there is usually the opportunity to pick up extra shifts. A Rph working as many hours as you are would max out around 180-200k.

 

[wamcp]

you have supply and demand on your side, the pharmacy profession used to have that as well but the scales tipped the other way 5 years ago or so. Our salaries were rising quickly, now they are dropping just as fast. One advantage of ovenights is there is usually the opportunity to pick up extra shifts. A Rph working as many hours as you are would max out around 180-200k.

Could you guys specialize in a pharmacy fellowship or residency to make yourself more marketable for a higher paying position?

 

[PharmDminus]

Could you guys specialize in a pharmacy fellowship or residency to make yourself more marketable for a higher paying position?

there are 1 and 2 years residencies which most hospitals now require. certain specialties like an oncology or nuclear pharmacist will have slightly higher pay but not by much

 

[APN-59 rph]

Yes, close to 600k/ year at my current pace. That is by working a lot of moonlighting and night/evening admitting shifts though. I work on average so far this year, 22 shifts a month varying from 8 to 12h in length.

I have been on the other end of the spectrum as a hospitalist. I used to work daytime academic hospitalist downtown in a big city at garbage pay rates. I had to work 25 to 26 shifts a month to achieve 380k in a year.

I can't see where the two jobs are at all comparable.....I have made one death defying decision as a pharmacist and caught maybe five deadly mistakes (maybe)..In another job one disaster.one screw up..in yet another job..one real disaster...A doctor's job must be incredibly higher.....

 

[quickpic007]

Yes, close to 600k/ year at my current pace. That is by working a lot of moonlighting and night/evening admitting shifts though. I work on average so far this year, 22 shifts a month varying from 8 to 12h in length.

I have been on the other end of the spectrum as a hospitalist. I used to work daytime academic hospitalist downtown in a big city at garbage pay rates. I had to work 25 to 26 shifts a month to achieve 380k in a year.

Curious: what are these garbage rates? 100$hr approx?

 

[wamcp]

Curious: what are these garbage rates? 100$hr approx?

Yes, when I attended on the resident-intern teaching service it was around 100. When on the nonteaching service at the academic center I got 125/hr which IMO is also a pretty trash pay rate

 

[samven582]

Could you guys specialize in a pharmacy fellowship or residency to make yourself more marketable for a higher paying position?

yes, industry pharmacist with MBAs can make hospitalist level pay.

 

[greenteapanacea]

I'm working at an East Coast hospital right now making $46 an hour doing night shifts (77hrs per pay period). They don't round that up to 80 hrs T.T

 

[wamcp]

I'm working at an East Coast hospital right now making $46 an hour doing night shifts (77hrs per pay period). They don't round that up to 80 hrs T.T

Curious. What do you guys actually do on shift?
Is there a lot of downtime and you can sleep/nap in a call room?

 

[gwarm01]

Curious. What do you guys actually do on shift?
Is there a lot of downtime and you can sleep/nap in a call room?

Verify new medication orders, prepare a batch or two of medications, handle any stat issues. There's no sleeping allowed.

We would typically have a very slow period midday through the night. My old job was at a fairly small hospital, but we were high acuity and required 24/7 pharmacy coverage. Smaller places can get by without overnight coverage, while others will require multiple pharmacists.

 

[greenteapanacea]

Curious. What do you guys actually do on shift?
Is there a lot of downtime and you can sleep/nap in a call room?

Basically what gwarm01 said. When there's some downtime, I change medication cabinet par levels and help with some admin/supply ordering. On the weekends, there's no floor pharmacists so I do the IV to PO switches and monitor CrCl, etc "clnical stuff". Note, all of this is voluntary, and I could actually just sit here and browse studentdoctorforum all night

 

[Modest_anteater]

Yes, close to 600k/ year at my current pace. That is by working a lot of moonlighting and night/evening admitting shifts though. I work on average so far this year, 22 shifts a month varying from 8 to 12h in length.

I have been on the other end of the spectrum as a hospitalist. I used to work daytime academic hospitalist downtown in a big city at garbage pay rates. I had to work 25 to 26 shifts a month to achieve 380k in a year.

What do you use all that money for? Like I have a hard time spending my money right now and I make less than that. Vacations to exotic places?

 

[gwarm01]

What do you use all that money for? Like I have a hard time spending my money right now and I make less than that. Vacations to exotic places?

edit: that came off as meaner than I intended.

*insert light hearted jab about living in a trailer behind your car being the reason why are having trouble spending all that money*

 

[Modest_anteater]

edit: that came off as meaner than I intended.

*insert light hearted jab about living in a trailer behind your car being the reason why are having trouble spending all that money*

yeah but like even if you buy a house or appartment you can only buy so much materialistic stuff to fill it with.... I used to own a house in the suburbs. VERY LONELY experience.

 

[wamcp]

What do you use all that money for? Like I have a hard time spending my money right now and I make less than that. Vacations to exotic places?

In several months I hope to find out, which is when I will finish off my student loans.

Breakdown currently is 18 to 20k per month to loans, 7k to retirement accounts, then 7k in our spending budget, and about 19k to taxes.

 

[Sine Cura]

Financial success in Family Medicine

As I have been announcing my impending retirement later this year I have been met with almost universal anger, disdain and dejection by my patient population with the words “you are too young to retire” echoing endlessly through the halls. This is a somewhat disappointing end to a career as the congratulatory statements are few and far between, making that last day not soon enough. I look forward to moving on to the rest of my life and will look back fondly on the lives I have helped through it all and hope for the best for this next generation of doctors.

Doctors who retire early often met with scorn

If you have a lot of after-tax income, invest appropriately, retire early and **** everyone

 

[APN-59 rph]

One way to look at it is that the big system has a LOT of sunk cost in your training..(and you took training that someone else could have used..WITH A BIG HELPING OF TAXPAYER MONEY)..which leads to some expectation of payback by actually USING that training....Another way to look at it is that if you want to SIE (self initiated elimination)...that may be a good thing......

 

[Sine Cura]

Fortunately we do not exist under an authoritarian regime that dictates we owe labor, in accordance with our training, to this broken society in exchange for the "privilege" of having received training.

How butthurt would people be if Slomo was under 50 years of age?

Meet Your PB Neighbor: Slomo ---- A former doctor finds peace skating in The Zone

 

[BC_89]

Is the job market in Minnesota bad? How about Wisconsin?

Pharmacists

Look at the geographic profile / quotient / employment ranges for Minnesota and Wisconsin based on BSL data from 2017.

 

[Louie2012]

Got a job offer 54.90/hr(floater) At a midsize city in lower Midwest. I’m already an RN so working PRN making $40/hr with no limits on overtime.

So after 4 years of school and $100k in student loans I’m only getting a $15 pay raise

 

[beautifulrobot]

Got a job offer 54.90/hr(floater) At a midsize city in lower Midwest. I’m already an RN so working PRN making $40/hr with no limits on overtime.

So after 4 years of school and $100k in student loans I’m only getting a $15 pay raise

But you dont have to wipe people's butts anymore, and that's priceless.

 

[Louie2012]

But you dont have to wipe people's butts anymore, and that's priceless.

To be honest I don’t mind it. Someone has to do it.

Also I could’ve just been an NP. I’ve been looking for jobs and the ratio of NP to PharmD demand is more like 5:1. Some even offer bonuses. Cheaper to be an NP and can still work full time while in school plus just 24-36 months of school.

What was I thinking.

 

[beautifulrobot]

To be honest I don’t mind it. Someone has to do it.

Also I could’ve just been an NP. I’ve been looking for jobs and the ratio of NP to PharmD demand is more like 5:1. Some even offer bonuses. Cheaper to be an NP and can still work full time while in school plus just 24-36 months of school.

What was I thinking.

That's a good question if your only reason for going to pharm school was for the pay check and job opportunities, and not because you find the pharmacy profession more your calling versus sticking it out with nursing. Hopefully you find something redeeming about the career switch...

 

[Louie2012]

That's a good question if your only reason for going to pharm school was for the pay check and job opportunities, and not because you find the pharmacy profession more your calling versus sticking it out with nursing. Hopefully you find something redeeming about the career switch...

I know what you mean. I knew I wanted to be a pharmacist even before I became a nurse in the first place. That’s why despite the easier route of NP I chose pharmacy school.

Hopefully I made the right choice.

 

[awval999]

Got a job offer 54.90/hr(floater) At a midsize city in lower Midwest. I’m already an RN so working PRN making $40/hr with no limits on overtime.

So after 4 years of school and $100k in student loans I’m only getting a $15 pay raise

What did you expect?

That is $114k/year which is market rate for a new grad in the Midwest.