Pathology vs. Lab Animal Residency

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Sami_21

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Hi,

I'm a 3rd-year vet student and am on the fence about pursuing a pathology or lab animal residency. Can someone who has done either please give their opinion on the application process, the program as a whole, and their experience? What were boards like? Did you go in straight after graduation or work GP for a few years?
I'm considering the following programs:
UGA, Emory, UC Davis, Illinois, and UF

Many thanks in advance from a confused and anxious student worried about the next 1.5 year 🙃

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Pathology is outside of the match and internships are not required, so the application process is fairly straightforward. Positions get posted on the ACVP and ASVCP websites in the fall (August-ish), you send in a letter of intent, CV, transcripts, and letters of rec. Programs review, and make offers to applicants until positions get filled. Most offers are in Sept to Oct. Grades are important, but path is a very small field, so your experiences in the field and letters of recommendation are probably more important, imo.

Boards are difficult. Pass rates have been higher the last six to ten years or so than before, but it’s a lot to learn. I think pass rates are about 75% with the current test. There is a shared general pathology section shared between anatomic and clinical residents. It’s heavy molecular bio/biochem pathways and physiology. You take that usually during spring (March) of your second year. Then anatomic and clinical each have separate discipline-specific exams you take in August after your third year is complete. you have to pass the gen path phase 1 before sitting the second exam. I’m a clinical pathologist so idk what exactly is on the anatomic boards, but our clin path specific test has 300 questions including data interpretation, test recommendations, descriptions, lab procedures, and knowledge. I had to evaluate, interpret, and write up a set number of cases within a time limit back in my day and your reports were scored for accuracy. I believe they did away with that actual microscopic portion with Covid and just made it part of the questions, but that was after my time.

In any ways, it’s going to be far easier to get a residency right out of school because you’ll probably have better connections with pathologists for LORs. Clinical pathology does value clinical experience, whether that is a rotating internship or time in practice, but it’s not absolutely required. Anatomic seems to prefer fresh graduates and doesn’t put as much emphasis on clinical practice from my semi-outsider impressions.

Residency and boards prep is not fun. It’s long days and even longer times at home reading tons of material and doing a lot of self-teaching. It’s stressful and you’re underpaid. I do absolutely enjoy my job as a clinical pathologist in diagnostics and I do think it was worth it, but I certainly wouldn’t want to go back and do it all again at this point.

My questions I’d ask someone considering a path residency would be…why do you want to be a pathologist? I think sometimes people consider the field because they know they don’t like clinical practice and it seems like an obvious alternative. Which I understand, but it’s hard being chained to a microscope days on end unless it’s something you truly enjoy. So while a dislike for practice may be common amongst path people, it shouldn’t be your only motivating factor. I’m not saying it is for you by any means, but just make sure you’ve shadowed some pathologists and really enjoy the work or you’ll end up burned out and hating your job.
 
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Thank you so much for your insight on the application process and residency in general. I don't mind clinical practice (why I'm also thinking lab animal med), I just like pathology more. I enjoy doing the detective work and learning about different disease processes, plus you tend to see a lot of species variety. I have more anatomic experience, but I'm open to clin path. I've heard anatomic path residencies are more beneficial if you want to also get a phD, which I do not. Is that accurate? It also seems like there are more job opportunities/growth in clin path. Do you mind sharing how you decided to go clin path and pick a program? Since path residencies are not part of matching, is there more freedom to choose or are there still consequences for dropping out like in matching?

I'm a non-traditional student, so I have financial concerns about not paying student debt right away. There typically isn't a tuition for residency programs, correct? I understand in any residency, the pay will not be like working at GP. Another reason why I asked about starting residency right after graduation is because I'd like to start a family soon. Did you have classmates start families while in residency? It feels like a lot and I'd worry about health/safety.

Thank you 😊
 
There are definitely clin path residencies that have associated graduate degrees. I’d say current trends in clin path tend towards no graduate degree or just doing a masters, but PhD programs do exist. Clin path in academia often has more clinical track/non-research heavy positions, where in anatomic path, it’s more expected for people to be tenure track and utilize that PhD. So when you say “anatomic path residencies are more beneficial if you want to also get a phD”, I don’t think that’s true…I’d just say that there’s a little more expectation/push to get a PhD if you go anatomic, but even then you don’t have to and there are programs that don’t require it.

As for job opportunities…I think they’re pretty equal. There are more anatomic positions in the world than clinical, but there are also more anatomic residents each year. With both fields, your options are to work in diagnostics for a commercial lab, do academia, or enter industry like pre-clinical drug development path at a research organization like Charles River. It’s not too difficult to find a job in the current market, but there also aren’t tons of vacancies either. Our supply of residents has equaled opportunities pretty well for years now. There is a bit of trepidation about what AI will do to pathology and jobs in the next decade, but it’s inevitable and imo we’ll just have to embrace it and deal with it.

I always knew I wanted to do clin path and never considered anatomic. I started working in a clin path lab as an undergrad and they brainwashed me over the years. I knew I enjoyed cytology and bloodwork interpretation. I don’t mind necropsy, but it’s not my favorite thing. I chose programs by eliminating ones that required advanced degrees, talking to mentors about places they thought trained residents well, and then a bit by location (limiting myself to the south/midwest because I do not enjoy large cities).

Not being in the match is a double edged sword. On one hand, it should give you more freedom to have multiple offers and let you choose what is best for you. But in reality since there are no set dates, if a program you like but don’t love offers you a spot first, you have to decide right then (like within a week) whether to take that offer because it’s available or to decline and hope you get a better offer somewhere else. I received an offer I liked early on, and when I contacted other programs I had applied to, they hadn’t even started reviewing apps yet and weren’t going to do so before I had to give my answer to offer #1, so I chose to just accept the first option even if it wasn’t my first choice. There’s a loose gentleman’s agreement amongst path programs not to force a decision until a set date so applicants can get multiple offers and decide what’s best for them, but not all places comply with that. Some try to offer early and snipe their first choice. There aren’t consequences for dropping out like in the match. But still, path is a small field and word gets around, so if you drop out but try to pursue the field later on, you may get questions.

My program didn’t have any required courses. I believe for most that do require class work for graduate degrees, expenses are covered. You make some money but not a lot. My salary in 2016-19 was 35k. I think there’s been some improvement, but you’re still talking like 25-33% of what you might make in practice. Your income will be low enough that you won’t have to pay much if anything at all on loans if you enter income based repayment. I paid maybe $100/mo all during residency. Then when I finished and had a “real” job, I hammered them and paid them off quickly.

There are residents who do have families or become pregnant during residency. It certainly isn’t easy. I will say that I feel like clin path is probably the easiest specialty to physically do while pregnant because we sit most of the day at microscopes but don’t have to worry about things like formalin for APs, radiation for radiology, and our exposure to infectious agents is fairly minimal by the time samples are processed and presented to us. But it still wouldn’t be easy to balance childbearing or childrearing with a more-than-full-time job. We did cases from 8-5 and I’ll admit that we had more free time than the residents in clinical specialties like surgery and IM and ER, but there’s so much prep and studying that needs done in the evenings I don’t know how parents do it. I think it’s much more common to hold off and then have children in the year or two (or more!) after residency.
 
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