Obama v. McCain

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badasshairday said:
And why the hell are we bailing them out? Screw them for messing up. They should pay for their mistakes.
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I'm pretty sure it's not just going to be the CEOs and their cronies that will get screwed if the government doesn't bail them out.

And as far as socialism goes, it's an easy term to throw around for people who don't seem to know what it means. I'm torn, because I will at some point be wealthy, and I want to KEEP my money, not give it to someone who may not have put the effort into life that I have. But the effects of the growing upper-class and shrinking middle-class are NOT economically beneficial. Businesses and entertainment are catering more and more to the rich. Have you noticed what it costs to go out on the town nowadays? Not to mention what it costs to go to a ski resort, or travel internationally.

I'm not suggesting I have a solution to these problems. But I DO know that deregulated businesses seem more interested in creating white-collar millionares then improving the lot of the laborers and lower management. If the government needs to step in to make the playing field fair, than so be it. You'll still be rich. And I bet your dollar will go further.

On the other hand, I HATE the fact that even if social programs benefit a lot of people, there are PLENTY of lazy-asses out there that will take advantage of all that free money the government is willing to throw their way. And that money comes at the expense of people like me who've spent their life working and studying in order to earn it.
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pgg said:
Yeah, if there's one silver lining to this $700 billion subprime fiasco it's that it makes a horrendously expensive ill-conceived socialized national health system a lot less likely.

The flip side is that it's just one more economic burden on the system that will surely lead to redoubled efforts to cut reimbursement further.
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Yeah, it's gonna get bad. This debt is so out of control, I almost don't see any solution other than some future default. But, that in itself would be terrible.

The U.S. will be experiencing major changes in standard of living. As individuals, if you believe there's no end in sight to the dollar's decline, we can protect ourselves against this type of inflation. But, as a nation, it's just not good.......
 
usnavdoc said:
What I do disagree with is all the CEO/execs getting away with multimillions in bonuses and salaries while all this has gone on. Some kind of criminal proceedings needs to take place.
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Sounds like they took advantage of an unregulated system. Being an irresponsible opportunistic scumbag isn't illegal ... did they break any laws?
 
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This thread has grown tiresome.
Dieter_Sprockets_small_closeup.jpg


-copro
 
One last time. . .I WILL NOT touch your monkey!


Now we dance.

coprolalia said:
This thread has grown tiresome.

Dieter_Sprockets_small_closeup.jpg


-copro
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Excellent, timely use of an obscure reference! I give it a 9.95/10 !!! Didn't get a 10 only because Dieter's black turtleneck is too severe.
 
badasshairday said:
Both suck. Vote independent. Palin is dumb. McCain isn't bad, but the dealbreaker is Palin. Obama isn't bad, but screw raising taxes to pay for more government social programs. Instead an increased tax revenue should be used to pay off the freakin debt that we have because of George W Bush's failed policies and massive spending.
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You know, people who preach to vote independent are idiots in my book. I hear it all the time, "Both candidates suck - vote independent!" Puh-lease. I know you have a smart head on your shoulders, and with that head you have to realize that an independent is NEVER going to win this election. You also have to realize that this election is going to be a close one. As with any election, but more importantly in ones that are destined to be won/lost by very few votes, EVERY VOTE COUNTS. So by voting independent, you are WASTING YOUR VOTE. Yeah, people love to say, "My one measly vote won't make a difference." If every person in the USA said that line & believed it, what would happen then? So obviously, every vote really does matter. Therefore, the thing to do with that head on your shoulders is become as educated as you can about both candidates and choose the one that MOST CLOSELY RESEMBLES YOUR IDEALS and vote for him. Please do this - the future of this country could really rest on your shoulders & your vote. It's a priviledge to be able to affect your future by voting - don't waste it. *Steps down from pedestal*

-Steak
 
SteakandShake said:
you have to realize that an independent is NEVER going to win this election.

"My one measly vote won't make a difference." If every person in the USA said that line & believed it, what would happen then?
-Steak
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Your argument could be used against you. If every person in the USA thought that an independent will never win an election, what would happen then? If every person in the USA thought that a woman or a black man would never win an election, we would have rejected Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. If everyone thought that a non-Christian would never win an election, JFK would never have won.

If everyone thought that no republican can win the presidency without the support of the religious right, we would be stuck with douchebag republican candidates forever.

Your view is that of learned helplessness. It's a slave mentality devoid of hope for change. It is a pessimistic view. It's the type of view that makes us give up on the presidency, the congress, and allows big corporations and powerful interests have free reign over this country.

It is true that there is no strong third party voice this year. However it is also true that the argument for voting for a third party vs voting for the lesser of two evils is not clear cut. You can argue both ways, and both points are valid. So while I respect your decision to vote for the lesser of two evils, maybe you might consider respecting each individual's decision as well, even if they vote for a third party candidate.
 
filter07 said:
If everyone thought that a non-Christian would never win an election, JFK would never have won.
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Huh?????? Last time I checked, JFK was Catholic - by any standards, a Christian.

Enjoy wasting your vote on the likes of Cynthia McKinney and the other "independents", because really, that's all you'll be doing.
 
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coprolalia said:
Yeah, she's actually generating twice the crowds when she speaks that even McCain is. So far, she's weathered the scrutiny quite well, IMHO, away from McCain's protective wing. She's got that certain "likeability" and buzz that none of the other three contenders currently has. She's effectively stolen Obama's thunder. And, she's getting all the press attention right now. All I have to ask is, "Joe who?" As W.C. Fields once said, "Talk good about me, talk bad about me, just talk about me."

I bet Obama is kicking himself on a daily basis for not picking Hillary as his running mate. It would've been a slam dunk for the Democrats.

-copro
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i suppose this is pretty good since americans vote by the amount of media generated and not the substance behind it.

the woman is a farce and an idiot.
 
leviathan said:
Matt Damon makes some pretty good points about Sarah Palin.
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That's the problem with you kids - you allow movie and TV stars to shape your opinions, as if somehow their opinion should be more important just because they can act or sing. Matt Damon, Oprah - I'll bet you (and probably badass) think Tom Cruise is a brilliant political thinker as well.
 
leviathan said:
Matt Damon makes some pretty good points about Sarah Palin. Too bad you don't realize because your head is deep up McCain's ass.
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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you had already concluded your opinion about Palin before you heard Damon give his.

Still, a society that gives so much credence to Hollywood as to seek their opinion on those running for political office is frankly, ******ed.

Would you still be patting yourself on the back if you heard Michael Vick lambast Palin?
 
jwk said:
That's the problem with you kids - you allow movie and TV stars to shape your opinions, as if somehow their opinion should be more important just because they can act or sing. Matt Damon, Oprah - I'll bet you (and probably badass) think Tom Cruise is a brilliant political thinker as well.
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i would bet matt damon from Team America would make a better VPOTUS than Sarah Palin.
 
Everyone here see Palin's interview with Katie Couric last night? Anyone at all still convinced she has any right whatsoever to be occupying the oval office?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/2 ... 29318.html

That interview reminds me of the rich kids in high school whose parents paid for them to have tutors in all their classes, and they'd still flunk their f****ing math test. Jesus, the thought of this woman taking over the presidency after McCain keels over after the first economic crisis that comes along is chilling....
 
surrender903 said:
i would bet matt damon from Team America would make a better VPOTUS than Sarah Palin.
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HAHAHA

That's funny right there, I don't care who y'are, that's funny.
 
Southpaw said:
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you had already concluded your opinion about Palin before you heard Damon give his.
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No kidding....what a concept. Next time I'll just post a Youtube video of myself up making fun of the joke that is Sarah Palin.

Still, a society that gives so much credence to Hollywood as to seek their opinion on those running for political office is frankly, ******ed.
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So once somebody becomes an actor they suddenly become a babbling idiot who has no right to an opinion?

Would you still be patting yourself on the back if you heard Michael Vick lambast Palin?
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This is exactly the illogical idea I'm talking about...who cares WHO gave out their opinion, as long as it is valid and they make a good point.
 
jwk said:
That's the problem with you kids - you allow movie and TV stars to shape your opinions, as if somehow their opinion should be more important just because they can act or sing. Matt Damon, Oprah - I'll bet you (and probably badass) think Tom Cruise is a brilliant political thinker as well.
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When you make assumptions, you make, well, you know the saying...:rolleyes:
 
leviathan said:
So once somebody becomes an actor they suddenly become a babbling idiot who has no right to an opinion?
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No, actually they were babbling idiots before they became actors.

So if Matt Damon told you how to practice whatever medicine it is you want to practice, would you follow his advice as well?
 
McCain has small hands.....any man with small hands I have questions about.......
 
jwk said:
No, actually they were babbling idiots before they became actors.

So if Matt Damon told you how to practice whatever medicine it is you want to practice, would you follow his advice as well?
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So if I'm interested in anesthesiology and post a video of someone talking about the pros and cons of the specialty, that means they were my sole reason for entering the field? Your thought process is so scattered that I'm having trouble deciding if you're trolling, or if you're just an idiot.
 
Look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPP_wYeb5bw


If that's not frightening, I don't know what is. Palin is now 0-2 in legitimate interviews. McCain doesn't have a clue what should be done about the economy and has been flaky as **** all week. I hope to God that some of you on the fence are thinking about a little more about what the Republicans have done to this country financially, culturally, and constitutionally over the last decade. Is a tax cut really worth living in a 3rd world country???
 
leviathan said:
MATT DAMONNNN
[youtube]C6urw_PWHYk[/youtube]
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I share Matt's concerns, and couldn't give a **** what he does for a living.

I really wonder what goes on in the minds of Palin's supporters, particularly the educated health care professionals on this board who don't find her candidacy at all absurd or frightening, or in any way a reflection of extremely poor judgment on the part of her running mate. Frankly, I find it to be horrifyingly irresponsible and utterly disqualifying of John McCain. As for his supporters who approve of Palin, I chalk it up to pure cynicism, greed, hatred of certain groups, and perhaps the progress Obama represents.
 
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powermd said:
I share Matt's concerns, and couldn't give a **** what he does for a living.

I really wonder what goes on in the minds of Palin's supporters, particularly the educated health care professionals on this board who don't find her candidacy at all absurd or frightening, or in any way a reflection of extremely poor judgment on the part of her running mate. Frankly, I find it to be horrifyingly irresponsible and utterly disqualifying of John McCain. As for his supporters who approve of Palin, I chalk it up to pure cynicism, greed, hatred of certain groups, and perhaps the progress Obama represents.
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Yet why do people blindly follow Obama?
 
powermd said:
Must be their blind hatred of rich people and love for giving handouts to freeloaders. What else could it be? It's not like the guy has anything of substance to offer.
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Obama is the single most inspiring political figure in a generation. He is intelligent, measured, well-liked, and has good political instincts. He is an outsider with inside experience. His life is the American Dream.

In addition to that, I agree with many of his policies and greatly disagree with the un-American policies of the Republican Party of the last decade. Also, if he were to become impaired, his Vice Presidential candidate is a respected, experienced, and intelligent Senator who knows how to answer basic foreign policy questions.

There are MANY substantive reasons why Obama is a better choice than McCain.
 
starsop93 said:
Obama is the single most inspiring political figure in a generation. He is intelligent, measured, well-liked, and has good political instincts. He is an outsider with inside experience. His life is the American Dream.

In addition to that, I agree with many of his policies and greatly disagree with the un-American policies of the Republican Party of the last decade. Also, if he were to become impaired, his Vice Presidential candidate is a respected, experienced, and intelligent Senator who knows how to answer basic foreign policy questions.

There are MANY substantive reasons why Obama is a better choice than McCain.
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:laugh::laugh:Joey B is a life long political hack... Dude dosn't know who was president at the start of the depression or the fact TV wasn't around yet... You may have some love lust for your boy Obama but, be honest ...Joey B is a Joke! Let me repeat that, Joey B is a Joke.
 
starsop93 said:
Obama is the single most inspiring political figure in a generation. He is intelligent, measured, well-liked, and has good political instincts. He is an outsider with inside experience. His life is the American Dream.

In addition to that, I agree with many of his policies and greatly disagree with the un-American policies of the Republican Party of the last decade. Also, if he were to become impaired, his Vice Presidential candidate is a respected, experienced, and intelligent Senator who knows how to answer basic foreign policy questions.

There are MANY substantive reasons why Obama is a better choice than McCain.
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Only if you are a socialist:laugh::laugh:
 
starsop93 said:
Obama is the single most inspiring political figure in a generation. He is intelligent, measured, well-liked, and has good political instincts. He is an outsider with inside experience. His life is the American Dream.

In addition to that, I agree with many of his policies and greatly disagree with the un-American policies of the Republican Party of the last decade. Also, if he were to become impaired, his Vice Presidential candidate is a respected, experienced, and intelligent Senator who knows how to answer basic foreign policy questions.

There are MANY substantive reasons why Obama is a better choice than McCain.
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Sarcasm dude, sarcasm.

I don't agree with everything that Obama wants to do, but I think he will be a better leader than John McCain. Obama seems to take a thoughtful approach to solving problems, as opposed to McCain's 'shoot from the hip' style that I think is not far from GWB. There are things I like about McCain too, I just disagree with him on too many important issues, and I think he is obsessed with Iraq and earmarks. Obama promises a new era in history, and I hope he has a chance to make it happen. Like so many other Obama supporters, I believe he can do it. I hope he will.

Last night at the debate I thought McCain looked ridiculous getting so worked up about the relatively small amount of money that goes to states for earmarks. Sure, I agree there is wasteful spending that needs to be contained, but let's put it in perspective. $18 billion is nothing compared to his $300B tax cut, or for that matter the enormous multi-trillion dollar SS hole (which Obama hasn't addressed either). I hope McCain can continue working for us to help contain Congressional spending- in Congress.
 
powermd said:
Last night at the debate I thought McCain looked ridiculous getting so worked up about the relatively small amount of money that goes to states for earmarks. Sure, I agree there is wasteful spending that needs to be contained, but let's put it in perspective. $18 billion is nothing compared to his $300B tax cut, or for that matter the enormous multi-trillion dollar SS hole (which Obama hasn't addressed either). I hope McCain can continue working for us to help contain Congressional spending- in Congress.
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I think McCain understands that $18B in earmarks is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to lobbyist-centered corruption in federal spending.

Obama can't pay for $1 trillion dollars in new spending by raising taxes on the highest 5% of taxpayers, leaving any family making <$250K untouched. That's not faulty math on his part - it's a flat out lie.
 
Last night McCain needed a direct reply to Obama's tax plan and claim of a tax cut:

1. The top 5% of wage earners, those earning over $250,000, pay 75% of all the INCOME TAXES in the USA

2. HALF of of those 95% of tax payers Obama keeps mentioning already pay NO INCOME taxes whatsoever

3. This means 45% of so called "tax payers" who currently pay NOTHING will be getting a HANDOUT from the government courtesy of the those top 5% of tax payers. That is NOT a rebate but income redistribution

4. McCain is not proposing any NEW tax cuts for individuals. Rather, he wants to hold the line on taxes where they are now.

5. Obama is a SOCIALIST and wants to tax the REAL taxpayer (those paying 75% of all the taxes in the USA) even more so he can start more government programs.

6. McCain wants to CUT government spemnding first and trim the fat before demanding the majority of the REAL TAXPAYERS from paying even more

7. The government is broke and needs to CUT spending before raising any taxes. No new social programs because we can't afford the ones we already have.


Blade
 
powermd said:
Sarcasm dude, sarcasm.
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Sorry, I rarely miss sarcasm. Unfortunately your post was TOO much like the right wingers!

Yeah, my biggest complaint about Obama last night was this. McCain was obsessed with the $18 billion in earmarks which is a drop in the bucket. Even if it is just representative of the lobbyist influence, it pales in comparison to two of McCain's own policies. We spend $10 billion a MONTH in Iraq! If we stopped the war today we'd make up most of that $18 billion by election day. Also, McCain wants to build 45 new nuclear plants. Those come at approx $10 billion a pop!! Where is McCain going to get the $450 BILLION he needs for his nuclear plan??? From earmarks? From tax cuts? Nuclear plants are NOT profitable, so you won't get that money back in investments. I'm in favor of nuclear power, but we need someone giving us some "straight-talk" about the actual costs of something like that.

Obama could have blown that argument out of the water with either of those comments.
 
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starsop93 said:
Also, McCain wants to build 45 new nuclear plants. Those come at approx $10 billion a pop!! Where is McCain going to get the $450 BILLION he needs for his nuclear plan??? From earmarks? From tax cuts? Nuclear plants are NOT profitable, so you won't get that money back in investments.
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Burning fossil fuels isn't exactly profitable either, once you factor in the environmental damage and the economic impact of exporting hundreds of billions of dollars each year to other countries - most of which hate us.

Burning black stuff only appears cheap in comparison because of how you externalize the costs.
 
starsop93 said:
Also, McCain wants to build 45 new nuclear plants. Those come at approx $10 billion a pop!! Where is McCain going to get the $450 BILLION he needs for his nuclear plan??? From earmarks? From tax cuts? Nuclear plants are NOT profitable, so you won't get that money back in investments. I'm in favor of nuclear power, but we need someone giving us some "straight-talk" about the actual costs of something like that.
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Since when is the federal government in the business of building nuclear power plants?

And still you ignore the $1 TRILLION dollars in NEW federal spending proposed by Obama. Where is HE going to get the money for ANY of his schemes? Duh.
 
powermd said:
I really wonder what goes on in the minds of Palin's supporters, particularly the educated health care professionals on this board
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Absolutely nothing!
If you open their heads you will find a giant frightening nothing!
Oh, actually you will find one thing inside their heads: I Will vote for anyone who promises me that I will not pay more taxes next year even if I knew that they are lying and even if they lead the country into a long lasting economic depression.
All I care about is next year's taxes.
 
jwk said:
Since when is the federal government in the business of building nuclear power plants?

And still you ignore the $1 TRILLION dollars in NEW federal spending proposed by Obama. Where is HE going to get the money for ANY of his schemes? Duh.
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Nuclear is subsidized to an enormous degree. It's typical of American socialism; the public pays and the company profits. The one country where nuclear really works well is France, and they basically have state-run plants.

As far as Obama's plan, he isn't planning large, across-the-board tax cuts. McCain is. So when McCain talks of initiatives he wants to do I usually wonder where the money will come from. Even IF he is able to eliminate all earmarks (not gonna happen), he still won't have even a fraction of the funds he needs to do anything.
 
starsop93 said:
As far as Obama's plan, he isn't planning large, across-the-board tax cuts. McCain is. So when McCain talks of initiatives he wants to do I usually wonder where the money will come from. Even IF he is able to eliminate all earmarks (not gonna happen), he still won't have even a fraction of the funds he needs to do anything.
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Nice sidestep. So again, where will Obama get the money for $1 trillion dollars in NEW SPENDING?
 
Let us examine the REALITY if McCain wins:

1. The Senate and House will be in the Democrats control

2. The Bush tax cuts EXPIRE at the end of 2010

3. McCain will compromise with the Congress on taxes

The net result is the Clinton tax brackets return in 2010. We get a TAX increase but more moderate than the Obama plan. This brings in more money to the coffers and McCAin CUTS spending as well.

That is the real reality even with a McCain victory. Still, I much prefer this scenario to an Obama Presidency where the tax code makes Bill Clinton look like a Republican.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Let us examine the REALITY if McCain wins:

1. The Senate and House will be in the Democrats control

2. The Bush tax cuts EXPIRE at the end of 2010

3. McCain will compromise with the Congress on taxes

The net result is the Clinton tax brackets return in 2010. We get a TAX increase but more moderate than the Obama plan. This brings in more money to the coffers and McCAin CUTS spending as well.

That is the real reality even with a McCain victory. Still, I much prefer this scenario to an Obama Presidency where the tax code makes Bill Clinton look like a Republican.
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That may be the best case scenario, economically speaking. But specifically where will McCain cut spending? I can't find any instances of programs to be actually downsized or eliminated on his web site. A number of projects he supports, perhaps at less cost than Obama, but I don't see anything being cut. Lots of bold claims that he'll create savings through "competition" etc but this rhetoric is as empty as most of Obama's sunshine & butterfly hope.

Anyway, it's likely a moot point now. McCain has failed to kick Palin to the curb, his biggest continuing mistake since he picked her, and once Thursday's VP debate is done I'm afraid he's stuck with her. He's as far behind in the national polls as he's ever been, the electoral map is bluer than it's been all year, the first debate was at best a tie (though most give the nod to Obama). Obama would have to be caught snorting coke off dead underage male prostitute's body to lose this thing now.

President Obama. I sure hope he's the messiah they say he is, because he and a solidly democratic Congress are what we're going to get.
 
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