MD/PhDs in biotech consulting

[deleted728364]

Read in some thread that some MD/PhDs working in the right area are able to do some consulting to supplement their income. Do these careers just come about through random ties to industry/academic centers tied to venture capital firms? How does consulting affect a physician scientist's rsrch/clinic balance - is it feasible to do all three?

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[tr]

Once you develop an area of expertise, companies will start to reach out to you. Also there are some companies that connect experts with people seeking expertise, I don't recall the names at the moment but I've gotten a few outreach emails from these types of places as well, where they want to put you into their database in case someone wants your specific area of expertise. It's up to you whether you want to do this. If you are an active academic this type of activity has to be disclosed as a conflict of interest in everything else that you publish.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Consulting is independent, though most institutions require you to report it through annual conflict of interest disclosures. Maybe they pay attention, but I can’t say personally. Sometimes it is random via your research endeavors, sometimes it is through contacts through your institutions tech transfer and commercialization center.

The best chance is you develop those contacts, then you get handed the golden parachute and work as head of R&D or outreach for a big company. I’ve known several people who left academics to be handed the keys to big pharma.

 

[Shoopoo]

Consulting is independent, though most institutions require you to report it through annual conflict of interest disclosures. Maybe they pay attention, but I can’t say personally. Sometimes it is random via your research endeavors, sometimes it is through contacts through your institutions tech transfer and commercialization center.

The best chance is you develop those contacts, then you get handed the golden parachute and work as head of R&D or outreach for a big company. I’ve known several people who left academics to be handed the keys to big pharma.

Can you practice medicine on the side or does this take up most of the time? Also, is a PhD absolutely necessary, or can you get by with some research during training

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Can you practice medicine on the side or does this take up most of the time? Also, is a PhD absolutely necessary, or can you get by with some research during training

Does what take up most of the time? Consulting? I’ve never seen a physician be a consultant as their only job. It’s more like practicing medicine is the full time job and the consulting is a side gig.

And when physicians go into industry, it’s rarely to be a lab monkey. Some have PhDs, some don’t, some have MBAs.

 

[mdphd_applicant]

Does what take up most of the time? Consulting? I’ve never seen a physician be a consultant as their only job. It’s more like practicing medicine is the full time job and the consulting is a side gig.

And when physicians go into industry, it’s rarely to be a lab monkey. Some have PhDs, some don’t, some have MBAs.

Physicians definitely become consultants as their main gig. The consulting firms love recruiting people from med school. Mt. Sinai has an explicit McKinsey program.

 

[Shoopoo]

Physicians definitely become consultants as their main gig. The consulting firms love recruiting people from med school. Mt. Sinai has an explicit McKinsey program.

Are you sure?

 

[mdphd_applicant]

Are you sure?

Yeah. Just check out the partner and md list at McKinsey. You’ll see a bunch of physicians

 

[tr]

McKinsey does management consulting, not biotech consulting. It is an out for people who realize they hate clinical medicine but need a remunerative job to pay off their loans. It is not expertise based. McKinsey also recruits from undergrad institutions as well as law schools. They are just looking for smart young people who are willing to work themselves to death as management consultants for a few years. Most people burn out of this quickly. It is totally different from providing advice to industry based on specialized medical or scientific expertise.

 

[Neuronix]

A number of people from my med school class went to work full-time for McKinsey or other consulting gigs. They all ended up back in clinical medicine after a few years to my knowledge.

 

[gbwillner]

I know many MD/PhDs who do full time consulting in industry (biotech). I even did it for a while (my practice was part time). You don't train for this- you leverage your expertise when it is in demand and have the right connections. You need to know how to market yourself 5o make it work and run a business.

 

[deleted728364]

I know many MD/PhDs who do full time consulting in industry (biotech). I even did it for a while (my practice was part time). You don't train for this- you leverage your expertise when it is in demand and have the right connections. You need to know how to market yourself 5o make it work and run a business.

How did you balance running a lab, consulting, and practicing?

 

[gbwillner]

How did you balance running a lab, consulting, and practicing?

It is not easy- not everyone can do it. You can easily let it suck your life away. But some are just good at delegating and managing very different responsibilities. Mine have only grown with time. I basically have no time for hobbies and travel constantly, but I enjoy all the things I do. Some day, I'm going to learn to say "no" to people to I can relax a little.

 

[Spacedman]

It is not easy- not everyone can do it. You can easily let it suck your life away. But some are just good at delegating and managing very different responsibilities. Mine have only grown with time. I basically have no time for hobbies and travel constantly, but I enjoy all the things I do. Some day, I'm going to learn to say "no" to people to I can relax a little.

I’ve started doing some consulting on the side (SAB, other roles) and have no idea what to ask for - do you get equity, or do an hourly rate? Doesn’t seem like I have much to lose from these opportunities (other than my reputation, ha)- would appreciate some advice, PM if more appropriate


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[tr]

I’ve started doing some consulting on the side (SAB, other roles) and have no idea what to ask for - do you get equity, or do an hourly rate? Doesn’t seem like I have much to lose from these opportunities (other than my reputation, ha)- would appreciate some advice, PM if more appropriate


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

How confident do you feel that the company will be successful? If you think they are on to something then take the equity, sky's the limit. If you think they are headed for a fall just take your hourly rate and get out.

 

[gbwillner]

I’ve started doing some consulting on the side (SAB, other roles) and have no idea what to ask for - do you get equity, or do an hourly rate? Doesn’t seem like I have much to lose from these opportunities (other than my reputation, ha)- would appreciate some advice, PM if more appropriate


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

There are oh so many variables at play. The first is to consider what your time is worth. Consulting for a company for an hour means not practicing or doing other work which has an hourly rate attached. Second, what additional value is YOUR expertise worth above any other shmo the company can get? Third is how much do you need or want to take the consulting gig? If you need it, the number goes down, if you don't want it, the number goes up.

Once you are a KOI then it is another ballgame. YOUR value is not just for your advice but also used as a marketing tool by the company. I've seen SAB members with big names that literally do nothing for the company and get paid, but just being there and not contributing in any appreciable way brings some value to the company.

As tr said above, equity brings another dimension. Cash-strapped companies are happy to pay you in equity, especially in early stages of development or marketization as they see it as an IOU that does not need to be redeemed if things dont work out.

Good luck. Happy to answer specifics if you want.

 

[Spacedman]

There are oh so many variables at play. The first is to consider what your time is worth. Consulting for a company for an hour means not practicing or doing other work which has an hourly rate attached. Second, what additional value is YOUR expertise worth above any other shmo the company can get? Third is how much do you need or want to take the consulting gig? If you need it, the number goes down, if you don't want it, the number goes up.

Once you are a KOI then it is another ballgame. YOUR value is not just for your advice but also used as a marketing tool by the company. I've seen SAB members with big names that literally do nothing for the company and get paid, but just being there and not contributing in any appreciable way brings some value to the company.

As tr said above, equity brings another dimension. Cash-strapped companies are happy to pay you in equity, especially in early stages of development or marketization as they see it as an IOU that does not need to be redeemed if things dont work out.

Good luck. Happy to answer specifics if you want.

Thx tr & gbwillner for the input. I have a general range of what my time is worth in $/hr, I have no idea how much equity that would translate into. Obviously more is better, but realistically is there a range you've seen? Like, if I were a former director of NIAA, I could command 10% equity in a promising startup with 25M startup VC... or if I were an early-mid career non-rockstar mdphd with expertise in a niche "hot" field, I could get 2% in an academic spinoff with 3M VC....like, I just made those number up, I don't know how to evaluate a company, I don't know what half this $hit means.... and I don't know where to learn it. And I definitely don't have time to read the white coat investor right now.... any advice appreciated.

 

[gbwillner]

Those numbers are not gonna fly IMO. No one would give you 10% of their company (worth approx. $2.5M in cash) for consulting. If they are, it means they have burned $25M in cash, and are desperate for someone to bail them out of some terrible problem, and you are agreeing to work for nothing.

That's how much a co-founder or very early essential employee would have of a reasonable company.

Even 2% seems too high. but is suppose it depends by what you mean by consulting. Are you acting as CMO for the company? Maybe in that case.

Usually it's something like this: your rate is $200/hr, but you know the company is strapped for cash and you don't really need the money. You agree to annual services in a contract, estimate the number of hours, and accept shares of the company at a strike price equal to $200-$400/hr. Even at $200/hr in shares it could work out very well for you because you are assessing those shares at a value before the company is profitable and is mostly a reflection of the VC money. This could translate to 1000 shares/hr. Fast forward a few years, and the company goes public at $20/share. Additional VC rounds dilute your value, let's say by 50%. You worked 10 hours. If you took the cash, you made $2k- congrats. You blew it on a weekend to Vegas. If you took the equity, you made $100k, and didn't pay taxes until you sold.

 

[Spacedman]

Those numbers are not gonna fly IMO. No one would give you 10% of their company (worth approx. $2.5M in cash) for consulting. If they are, it means they have burned $25M in cash, and are desperate for someone to bail them out of some terrible problem, and you are agreeing to work for nothing.

That's how much a co-founder or very early essential employee would have of a reasonable company.

Even 2% seems too high. but is suppose it depends by what you mean by consulting. Are you acting as CMO for the company? Maybe in that case.

Usually it's something like this: your rate is $200/hr, but you know the company is strapped for cash and you don't really need the money. You agree to annual services in a contract, estimate the number of hours, and accept shares of the company at a strike price equal to $200-$400/hr. Even at $200/hr in shares it could work out very well for you because you are assessing those shares at a value before the company is profitable and is mostly a reflection of the VC money. This could translate to 1000 shares/hr. Fast forward a few years, and the company goes public at $20/share. Additional VC rounds dilute your value, let's say by 50%. You worked 10 hours. If you took the cash, you made $2k- congrats. You blew it on a weekend to Vegas. If you took the equity, you made $100k, and didn't pay taxes until you sold.

Thanks! Very helpful - I'll venture a guess it's see 1 / do 1/ teach 1 kind of learning, but is there some other resource you learn this from?
I wonder if we should be training our students with this level of financial literacy - some just seem to get it, but I never paid attention to this stuff. the value is obvious.

 

[gbwillner]

Thanks! Very helpful - I'll venture a guess it's see 1 / do 1/ teach 1 kind of learning, but is there some other resource you learn this from?
I wonder if we should be training our students with this level of financial literacy - some just seem to get it, but I never paid attention to this stuff. the value is obvious.

This is just from first-hand experience. I've been consulting in my field for 6 years.

/I will send you a bill for these consulting services. My rate is $500/hr.

 

[Spacedman]

This is just from first-hand experience. I've been consulting in my field for 6 years.

/I will send you a bill for these consulting services. My rate is $500/hr.

i'll pay you in equity once I figure out how monetize my SDN account