MD MD Chances: 3.3 sGPA 3.5 cGPA 35 MCAT

[throwaway77]

A) What are my chances if I apply first day of getting into any MD school?
B) Also what can I do in the coming 6 months to best improve my application?

I also have:
~3 years of research/work experience (no publications)
~2 years of clinical volunteering
~2 years of nonclinical volunteering

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[Catalystik]

A) What are my chances if I apply first day of getting into any MD school?
B) Also what can I do in the coming 6 months to best improve my application?

I also have:
~3 years of research/work experience (no publications)
~2 years of clinical volunteering
~2 years of nonclinical volunteering

A) Historically, of All Applicants applying through AMCAS with a 3.5/35, about 68% got an acceptance to at least one school. Your low sGPA will work against you, as would the lack of a steep upward grade trend in your last year or two of school. If you include some DO schools, your odds improve a lot. Applying early works in your favor.

B) Get in at least 50 hours of formal physician shadowing, to include a primary care doc.
Add peer leadership and/or teaching.
Include hobbies and artistic interests.
Start to establish an upward grade trend in the sciences if you haven't already done so.


What brought your sGPA down?

 

[throwaway77]

A) Historically, of All Applicants applying through AMCAS with a 3.5/35, about 68% got an acceptance to at least one school. Your low sGPA will work against you, as would the lack of a steep upward grade trend in your last year or two of school. If you include some DO schools, your odds improve a lot. Applying early works in your favor.

B) Get in at least 50 hours of formal physician shadowing, to include a primary care doc.
Add peer leadership and/or teaching.
Include hobbies and artistic interests.
Start to establish an upward grade trend in the sciences if you haven't already done so.


What brought your sGPA down?

A) i'm half white half asian & from CA so I believe my chances drop slightly (perhaps to 50ish %?).
B) i've already graduated, but I do have a steady upward trend in my sGPA & cGPA with my final year being a 4.0.
my sGPA was low b/c as a freshman i thought it was cool of me to take 6 classes/quarter with a majority of them being science & math classes. no doubt, i faced the consequences of my actions and ****ed up.

i) do you think i need a formal SMP?
ii) should I risk retaking the MCAT? (my aamc average was a 39, with aamc 8-11 being a 37) if i were to retake it i think i would improve by 4 points max, although i don't think i would score lower.

 

[Goro]

Nope, and you should at least apply to USC. Your GPAs are below avg, but you're within striking distance. Ditto for UCD. I suggest aiming for all low-tier OOS MD schools as well. You're also fine for any DO program, including mine.

i) do you think i need a formal SMP?

That would be an act of hubris. You're more likely to get the same score, or even go down.

ii) should I risk retaking the MCAT? (my aamc average was a 39, with aamc 8-11 being a 37) if i were to retake it i think i would improve by 4 points max, although i don't think i would score lower.[/quote]

 

[Catalystik]

A) i'm half white half asian & from CA so I believe my chances drop slightly (perhaps to 50ish %?).
B) i've already graduated, but I do have a steady upward trend in my sGPA & cGPA with my final year being a 4.0.
my sGPA was low b/c as a freshman i thought it was cool of me to take 6 classes/quarter with a majority of them being science & math classes. no doubt, i faced the consequences of my actions and ****** up.

i) do you think i need a formal SMP?
ii) should I risk retaking the MCAT? (my aamc average was a 39, with aamc 8-11 being a 37) if i were to retake it i think i would improve by 4 points max, although i don't think i would score lower.

A) My eyeballs read your chances as 65%(Asian) to 72%(White) depending on which graph you look at.

B) Good.

i) You need more comprehensive ECs more than you need an SMP.

ii) No. What if the score drops?

 

[throwaway77]

ok, thanks. I'll keep you all posted just in case there are others in my shoes that could benefit from this thread...in like a year haha.
cheers.

 

[throwaway77]

hey guys, i've been debating on whether to take 1-2 science classes via open university to boost my sGPA and continue the upward trend. It will cost me about $2500, so I am trying to weigh the benefits against the costs.

since I have a full time job I cant really take more than 2 classes, but would schools even appreciate me taking just 2 classes....Or would they only consider a full schedule of 4-5 classes as "postbacc" worthy?

 

[Catalystik]

i've been debating on whether to take 1-2 science classes via open university to boost my sGPA and continue the upward trend. It will cost me about $2500, so I am trying to weigh the benefits against the costs.

since I have a full time job I cant really take more than 2 classes, but would schools even appreciate me taking just 2 classes....Or would they only consider a full schedule of 4-5 classes as "postbacc" worthy?

Considering you already have a full year of 4.0 grades, I don't think that 2 more As will make that much more of an impact on adcomm decision-making. Yes, they will see a 4.0 on the Postbaccalaureate line of your transcript, which is good, but when they check further, they'll see it was for a small number of credits, and IMO, dismiss it. So, as they say, "Either go big, or go home."

 

[sat0ri]

Catalystik, you said get in a at least 50 hours of "formal physician shadowing". Is there any verification on shadowing? I shadowed one doc for 40 hours or so, between seeing patients and a few lengthy surgeries, but I was worried I would have no way of proving I actually did this.
I've seen a few threads before about falsifying your numbers, so I'm curious about this, but from the other end of it (having put the time in already)

 

[sat0ri]

.

 

[Catalystik]

Catalystik, you said get in a at least 50 hours of "formal physician shadowing". Is there any verification on shadowing? I shadowed one doc for 40 hours or so, between seeing patients and a few lengthy surgeries, but I was worried I would have no way of proving I actually did this.
I've seen a few threads before about falsifying your numbers, so I'm curious about this, but from the other end of it (having put the time in already)

It's an honor system, but you will be asked to provide contact information for the physician you shadowed. You do not need to "prove" the number of hours you participated. If it was sufficient, you will gracefully field the many potential interview questions that revolve around such experience.

 

[sat0ri]

It's an honor system, but you will be asked to provide contact information for the physician you shadowed. You do not need to "prove" the number of hours you participated. If it was sufficient, you will gracefully field the many potential interview questions that revolve around such experience.

Thanks, I will be sure to get contact info for physicians now. I hadn't thought about it before (outside of potential LOR).

I'm curious now, what kind's of question revolve around this? I mostly want to know what to be looking for from my shadowing experience, instead of hoping the right stuff resonates

 

[Catalystik]

With apologies to the original poster for side-tracking your thread this one last time.

Read SDN's interview feedback section. They will be questions dealing with the positive and negative realities of practicing medicine in the US: patient advocacy, cultural sensitivity, malpractice, medical ethics, current healthcare policy, difficult patients, insurance companies, professionalism, etc.

I will add that observing a physician-anesthetized patient relationship isn't going to help you much with such questions.

 

[throwaway77]

I've done 16 units of postbacc work thus far (8 units per semester for 2 semesters, all As). 2 more classes would bring it to a whooping 24 units but I'd be hemorrhaging $$$ like a laceration.

By "go big, or go home" did you mean that if I'm going to do Postbacc work I should take it seriously and do a full load or will they consider that I had a full time job while consistently taking 2 classes/semester.

thanks.

Considering you already have a full year of 4.0 grades, I don't think that 2 more As will make that much more of an impact on adcomm decision-making. Yes, they will see a 4.0 on the Postbaccalaureate line of your transcript, which is good, but when they check further, they'll see it was for a small number of credits, and IMO, dismiss it. So, as they say, "Either go big, or go home."

 

[Catalystik]

1) I've done 16 units of postbacc work thus far (8 units per semester for 2 semesters, all As). 2 more classes would bring it to a whooping 24 units but I'd be hemorrhaging $$$ like a laceration.

2) By "go big, or go home" did you mean that if I'm going to do Postbacc work I should take it seriously and do a full load or will they consider that I had a full time job while consistently taking 2 classes/semester.

1) When you said you had a 4.0 your final year [i've already graduated, but I do have a steady upward trend in my sGPA & cGPA with my final year being a 4.0. ], I assumed you meant your senior year of college. Is that not the fact? Was it the 16 postbac units you referred to? Or was it 4.0 for all of senior year and for the postbac?

2) I meant that you need to have consistent excellent grades in a decent number of classes over a period of time, which to me generally means 1-1.5 years full-time equivalent when the GPA is significantly challenged. If one is working forty hours/week, classes can be done part-time, but it takes longer to achieve the same impact.

 

[throwaway77]

1. Ah yes, my senior year of college I got a 4.0. In addition, the previous 4 informal post-bac classes (via open university) I took I also got a 4.0 albeit I took only 2 classes per semester.

2. Well I'm already coming of age (25+) so I'm definitely pressured to apply June 2014 yet have to maintain some income source. If you were in my shoes would you:
(a) go ahead and take the two classes for incremental yet consistent improvement (at a cost of $2-3k)
OR (b) see how the 2014 application cycle goes and if by December 2014 I don't have interviews, sign up for full load of classes early 2015.

1) When you said you had a 4.0 your final year [i've already graduated, but I do have a steady upward trend in my sGPA & cGPA with my final year being a 4.0. ], I assumed you meant your senior year of college. Is that not the fact? Was it the 16 postbac units you referred to? Or was it 4.0 for all of senior year and for the postbac?

2) I meant that you need to have consistent excellent grades in a decent number of classes over a period of time, which to me generally means 1-1.5 years full-time equivalent when the GPA is significantly challenged. If one is working forty hours/week, classes can be done part-time, but it takes longer to achieve the same impact.

 

[Catalystik]

One year plus 16 credits of straight As has already made the point that you've turned things around academically. I'd make the decision based on how many of those A classes were upper level Bio and Biochem (similar to med school classes). What say you?

Also, how does it happen that you are of nontraditional age?

 

[throwaway77]

One year plus 16 credits of straight As has already made the point that you've turned things around academically. I'd make the decision based on how many of those A classes were upper level Bio and Biochem (similar to med school classes). What say you?

Also, how does it happen that you are of nontraditional age?

i) 9/12 from senior year college & 2/4 from postbac were upper level bio. (the others were upper division physical chemistry & GEs.)

ii) ive been and currently am working in life science research aka lab technician. i only became serious about med school this past year, thus the part time postbac classes.

 

[Catalystik]

i) 9/12 from senior year college & 2/4 from postbac were upper level bio.

Can you be specific? I'm not talking about Plant Biology and Ecology of the River Systems here.

Have you figured out the impact of a full term of science As on your BCPM GPA?

 

[throwaway77]

i) specifically all human biology related classes - immunology, virology, endocrinology, mol bio, cell bio, etc

ii) i busted out the ol' excel and did some calculations. My current BPCM GPA is infact 3.38-3.46 (too conservative to too liberal in terms of BPCM assignment). 2 additional classes will bump that to 3.41-3.49. A full term worth will bump that to 3.43-3.51.

so we're talking only about .03-.05 worth of max improvement, however if one were to only read the first two digits of my gpa, it will go from 3.3-3.4 to a 3.4-3.5.

Can you be specific? I'm not talking about Plant Biology and Ecology of the River Systems here.

Have you figured out the impact of a full term of science As on your BCPM GPA?

 

[Catalystik]

i) Excellent and just what I'd hope to see if I were micro-analyzing your transcript.
ii) Clearly taking two more classes isn't going to help you much. A full term: very little more. I suggest depending on your already-established, consistent, steep upward grade trend and working on improving your ECs (not that many of them aren't already outstanding in terms of duration). A year from now, if you get no love, rethink the SMP plan rather than more undergrad coursework.

What is the nature of your nonclinical volunteering?

Does your place of employment not have a free educational benefit?

 

[throwaway77]

i) Excellent and just what I'd hope to see if I were micro-analyzing your transcript.
ii) Clearly taking two more classes isn't going to help you much. A full term: very little more. I suggest depending on your already-established, consistent, steep upward grade trend and working on improving your ECs (not that many of them aren't already outstanding in terms of duration). A year from now, if you get no love, rethink the SMP plan rather than more undergrad coursework.

What is the nature of your nonclinical volunteering?

Does your place of employment not have a free educational benefit?

i) can i get a masters in CompSci/CompEng instead. I mean some of those classes will add to bpcm no? Also would an adcom see 3.38 as essentially being 3.4? I'm just worried that the initial "image" one gets from seeing a 3.3x vs a 3.4x might cause some distress.

ii) without giving away too many details to identify myself, I help out at ESL classes for low income spanish speaking families. (I'm NOT URM btw, just happen to know enough spanish to communicate.)

iii) unfortunately, no

 

[Catalystik]

i) A traditional masters in one of these disciplines is highly unlikely to help you get into med school. Grad GPAs, other than SMPs, are generally (not always) dismissed and not included in the decision-making metric (grades are widely assumed to be inflated, and thus not comparable to undergrad GPAs). A 3.3x or 3.4x will cause similar "distress." Fortunately for you, your high MCAT score is likely to cause adcomms to take a closer look to see what's what. I think many will like what they see.

ii) The most helpful type of nonmedical community service seems to be that which assists the poor/those in need. Can you develop a leadership role within this activity?

 

[throwaway77]

i) A traditional masters in one of these disciplines is highly unlikely to help you get into med school. Grad GPAs, other than SMPs, are generally (not always) dismissed and not included in the decision-making metric (grades are widely assumed to be inflated, and thus not comparable to undergrad GPAs). A 3.3x or 3.4x will cause similar "distress." Fortunately for you, your high MCAT score is likely to cause adcomms to take a closer look to see what's what. I think many will like what they see.

ii) The most helpful type of nonmedical community service seems to be that which assists the poor/those in need. Can you develop a leadership role within this activity?

awesome, thanks for the feedback. I'll be saving my hard earned $ for a SMP (bioinformatics?) if needed then.

Yes, there are some leadership roles. I haven't taken the opportunity to jump on them partly due to lack of time, and partly due to me being completely washed out once i'm done with work, classes, volunteering, etc. Now that I'll be cutting back on classes I hope to find a good position soon.

 

[Catalystik]

Yes, there are some leadership roles. I haven't taken the opportunity to jump on them partly due to lack of time, and partly due to me being completely washed out once i'm done with work, classes, volunteering, etc. Now that I'll be cutting back on classes I hope to find a good position soon.

Sounds good.