Is this for real or trolling?

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Unfortunately it is private practices that are most guilty of this. I have lived it. Half? Try getting a third of your pro collections and being told it's because you are in a "desirable area" (it's not). If 400k is a fine income for you, it's probably hard to beat the VA. Or you could do 15k wRVU in PP and never be able to take vacation and earn that. F that.
Mid 400s is fine with me because that is what I expected to make coming into it. Heck, with our life style (and my wife's income), we could be just as happy with me making $300. However, if someone tried to tell me 25% of my salary was going away but my responsibilities were the same, I would absolutely jump ship. I don't judge people at all for wanting to make more. Especially when over the course of their career, they did make more.

And I hate predatory behavior in any setting. You are right, I think some of the most egregious things happen in PP, but I have seen some pretty hostile take overs with academic acquisitions which are focused entirely on the bottom line. "Well, we can't pay you what you used to make because it wouldn't be fair to all of your new colleagues making less at main." We wouldn't give 2 f**** what they pay those guys.

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Pay has been going down with inflation going up. Does that make any sense?
 
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I am sure many young grads have thought...

Well, I'm having to do 2-3x as much work as I anticipated but it will be ok because in a few years I'll be a partner and share the extra income from the next sucker that joins.

Free lesson: If they're screwing you that badly on the front end, they are not going to make you a partner on the back end. People that are accustomed to taking don't usually like to start sharing. Caveat: Daddy owns the practice (common).


daddy owns the practice is very common refrain. I have seen mommy owns the practice too.
 
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having a cattle call to hire unmotivated low paid salaried staff who are more interested in punching a clock for steady pay and benefits.
Regarding our present job market? Thank goodness that we have administrators not so focused on productivity.

While academic medicine is certainly not predicated on efficiency, a culture where everyone feels overworked is easy to come by in private practice (not as common for radonc as all the other docs). Volume has a cost as well. We complain about our medonc colleagues not addressing fundamental issues of a cancer diagnosis with their patients, but so much of this has to do with their daily schedule (maybe some cultural stuff as well).

Docs who aren't "too" busy tend to be more willing to be involved with committees, community outreach, quality improvement initiatives, etc. While the value of any one of these things is easy to question, collectively they make up a positive and progressive culture.

I have seen first hand the downside of chasing RVUs or collections in terms of clinical decision making and care. (in all specialties)

In my own place of work, I have tried to emphasize a generous base salary with minimum productivity, which is easily achievable, and some production bonus when necessarily very busy as opposed to an RVU heavy model. The docs were doing lots of low value/high RVU stuff under a prior RVU heavy model and it created a pretty toxic environment. Not everything you do as a doc needs to get billed.

Regarding my own practice with a PSA? All docs are partners after 3 years (we have basically no assets) and all are paid the same per day once they are granted partnership. We don't look too close at clinical volume, but if a big disparity emerges, it gets addressed. I like to work more and make more than my colleagues, so I am a limiting factor for hiring.

I like the younger generation. I have a hard time recruiting them (outside of radonc of course) because they typically want to live in big, diverse metros, but they generally seem reasonable regarding contract negotiations and expectations. QOL is important to them, and they are not wrong.

I have had a much harder time with docs close to 70 (I'm in a location where professionals retire) who believe that they are significantly more valuable than the docs already here and in their prime (40-50 y/o). Many are still trying to maximize every bit of compensation while already financially independent. Maybe it's a boomer thing. I have no intention of working at 70, and am very aware that I will if anything be less valuable than most of my junior colleagues in terms of clinical care once I hit my mid 60s (if not earlier).

The work hard/make bank and take on massive personal responsibility model of true PP? That's disappearing with consolidation, but be ware the entrenched seniors in these practices. They just think you have no balls.
 
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I have had a much harder time with docs close to 70 (I'm in a location where professionals retire) who believe that they are significantly more valuable than the docs already here and in their prime (40-50 y/o). Many are still trying to maximize every bit of compensation while already financially independent. Maybe it's a boomer thing. I have no intention of working at 70, and am very aware that I will if anything be less valuable than most of my junior colleagues in terms of clinical care once I hit my mid 60s (if not earlier).

Agree - and I don't get it either
 
Regarding our present job market? Thank goodness that we have administrators not so focused on productivity.

While academic medicine is certainly not predicated on efficiency, a culture where everyone feels overworked is easy to come by in private practice (not as common for radonc as all the other docs). Volume has a cost as well. We complain about our medonc colleagues not addressing fundamental issues of a cancer diagnosis with their patients, but so much of this has to do with their daily schedule (maybe some cultural stuff as well).

Docs who aren't "too" busy tend to be more willing to be involved with committees, community outreach, quality improvement initiatives, etc. While the value of any one of these things is easy to question, collectively they make up a positive and progressive culture.

I have seen first hand the downside of chasing RVUs or collections in terms of clinical decision making and care. (in all specialties)

In my own place of work, I have tried to emphasize a generous base salary with minimum productivity, which is easily achievable, and some production bonus when necessarily very busy as opposed to an RVU heavy model. The docs were doing lots of low value/high RVU stuff under a prior RVU heavy model and it created a pretty toxic environment. Not everything you do as a doc needs to get billed.

Regarding my own practice with a PSA? All docs are partners after 3 years (we have basically no assets) and all are paid the same per day once they are granted partnership. We don't look too close at clinical volume, but if a big disparity emerges, it gets addressed. I like to work more and make more than my colleagues, so I am a limiting factor for hiring.

I like the younger generation. I have a hard time recruiting them (outside of radonc of course) because they typically want to live in big, diverse metros, but they generally seem reasonable regarding contract negotiations and expectations. QOL is important to them, and they are not wrong.

I have had a much harder time with docs close to 70 (I'm in a location where professionals retire) who believe that they are significantly more valuable than the docs already here and in their prime (40-50 y/o). Many are still trying to maximize every bit of compensation while already financially independent. Maybe it's a boomer thing. I have no intention of working at 70, and am very aware that I will if anything be less valuable than most of my junior colleagues in terms of clinical care once I hit my mid 60s (if not earlier).

The work hard/make bank and take on massive personal responsibility model of true PP? That's disappearing with consolidation, but be ware the entrenched seniors in these practices. They just think you have no balls.

I have seen firsthand all of the examples you have mentioned. A healthy PP with even split collections, handshake agreements based on mutual trust, equitable vacation coverage, etc is great. I've seen them and know they exist.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be 100% clinical and not be involved in the non-clinical activities you mention. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to carry a light load or a large load, take a lot of vacation or none, etc. People are different with different life circumstances.

It is hard to feel sympathy, however, for the 73 year old boomer with 8-9 figure stock portfolios that plays dirty politics to stack the schedule with 15-20 consults a week and has no idea what's going on with anybody. This is irritating, to say the least. Pathologic might be a better word. You can definitely be very busy and do good work, but it is true that you'll be more likely to find thoughtful and meticulous planning and management in less busy and RVU-motivated rad oncs. Exceptions on both sides, of course.

Agree - and I don't get it either

It is simple greed. When they have done polls of very wealthy people, they ask them "how much more do you need to be truly happy and comfortable with your financial situation?" Virtually all of them answer the exact same "about 2 to 3 times more" whether they have 1M, 10M, 100M, etc. The answer stays the same as their piggy bank grows.
 
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I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be 100% clinical and not be involved in the non-clinical activities you mention.
I agree. It is important for someone in the practice to be willing to do these things however. If you are in a truly independent practice, these things matter, and if you are in a practice with a PSA, providing admin and outreach value goes a long way when it comes to renegotiating the PSA.
 
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I agree. It is important for someone in the practice to be willing to do these things however. If you are in a truly independent practice, these things matter, and if you are in a practice with a PSA, providing admin and outreach value goes a long way when it comes to renegotiating the PSA.

Ideally you have a group of like minded individuals with diverse skill sets and allow each individual to be given opportunities to maximize those skillsets (committees, marketing, finance, etc.). The angst always comes when people feel like they are doing too much (or look at others as doing too little) or if compensation is skewed. There is no perfect model or perfect people but I have found that true equitable sharing is the only *chance* at long-term peace/harmony but requires a group of individuals with same mindset and diverse skills. Not an easy thing to create and an even harder thing to maintain beyond a certain point.
 
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Ideally you have a group of like minded individuals with diverse skill sets and allow each individual to be given opportunities to maximize those skillsets (committees, marketing, finance, etc.). The angst always comes when people feel like they are doing too much (or look at others as doing too little) or if compensation is skewed. There is no perfect model or perfect people but I have found that true equitable sharing is the only *chance* at long-term peace/harmony but requires a group of individuals with same mindset and diverse skills. Not an easy thing to create and an even harder thing to maintain beyond a certain point.
100% this.

Perfectly stated.
 
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Ideally you have a group of like minded individuals with diverse skill sets and allow each individual to be given opportunities to maximize those skillsets (committees, marketing, finance, etc.). The angst always comes when people feel like they are doing too much (or look at others as doing too little) or if compensation is skewed. There is no perfect model or perfect people but I have found that true equitable sharing is the only *chance* at long-term peace/harmony but requires a group of individuals with same mindset and diverse skills. Not an easy thing to create and an even harder thing to maintain beyond a certain point.
And when you don't have it, I think eat what you kill makes sense. Work less, make less. Piss off referrings, make less etc.
 
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