Help! Any success stories from students who got into dental acceptance after attending Midwestern (AZ) University's 2-year MBS program?

[abanoubfarid]

Hi everyone! So I am a pre-dental student, and my stats are ~2.89 GPA (surprisingly higher sGPAbut not any better) and an 18AA and 17TS DAT. I recently applied to several masters programs considering my stats are not competitive enough for dental school and managed to get into Midwestern's 2-year MBS program. I have heard good and bad things about Midwestern but I am wondering if anyone has had success with this program and getting into dental school? The tuition is pretty expensive and I know that there is no guarantee in getting admitted, but I would love to hear opinions on whether the program is worth the cost!
Thank you guys!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MG14]

I don’t care if the school fed you filet mignon’s on gold plates and gave you massage chairs to eat in during lunch, it’s not worth the cost to go there (despite it being a great school).

Now starting my third year in dental school, and also working for 3 years in the dental field before d school, I’d completely bag the whole thing and change careers before I paid what Midwestern charges. Now I couldn’t say that when I was applying because I didn’t realize the financial burden and just thought “I’ll pay it back someday”. With cost of Midwestern, that doesn’t work anymore. The price is financial suicide and unless you have a full ride scholarship, makes no sense and just sets you up to be in debt most of your working career.

 

[Bingwen]

So I did the 2-year master's program at Midwestern in AZ. The first year is very heavy didactic so be prepared for that. You do not want to bomb those first couple quarters and verify what your GPA shows. Dental schools are really going to look heavily at this time period. This 1st year also leaves very little room for studying for the DAT. So understand that you will have a very small window between May and July of your second year to really study. During this time, you will also be expected to start really working in your lab. The lab work can be strenuous depending on the PI that you select. I picked the dental research lab and it was the best decision that I ever made. I got a publication out of that lab (working on a couple more) and also got to know a lot of the dental school faculty.

When I applied to dental schools, I got interviews at 6 different schools and got accepted to 5 of them. My DAT was good (20/20 I think). My GPA was about where you are now though. I ended up choosing to leave Midwestern for dental school and I am in a DMD/PhD program at MUSC (3rd year of 8). This decision was made for 2 reasons: I really want to be a dental faculty at a school one day and I don't pay tuition, plus I get a stipend.

My wife graduated as a dentist from Midwestern and we live a great life despite the debt. HOWEVER, ignoring the debt load you will be taking on is foolish. If you want to live a baller life and toss money around, Midwestern will likely not be the school you want to attend. We had a plan on how we are handling the debt, she reached out to jobs that would allow us to live well (her clinical experience allowed her to get up to speed really quickly). We own a house, both of our kids are in private schools, we are investing for the future, and are putting away large sums each month for the eventual tax bomb. Could we be doing better with less debt? Absolutely, but my wife would not change a thing about attending Midwestern for dental school.

Feel free to reach out to me for advice on the master's program or Midwestern's dental program and I will do what I can to help.

 

[abanoubfarid]

@MG14 Honestly, I totally agree with what you're saying. I don't think it's worth the debt either. This is part of the reason why I'm having such a hard time making a decision. I got accepted into only 2-year programs so far and debt burden is around the same. But Midwestern is giving me until Monday to make the decision. Hopefully, I get into a program that is less expensive and time consuming, I really have my heart set out for dentistry!

 

[abanoubfarid]

So I did the 2-year master's program at Midwestern in AZ. The first year is very heavy didactic so be prepared for that. You do not want to bomb those first couple quarters and verify what your GPA shows. Dental schools are really going to look heavily at this time period. This 1st year also leaves very little room for studying for the DAT. So understand that you will have a very small window between May and July of your second year to really study. During this time, you will also be expected to start really working in your lab. The lab work can be strenuous depending on the PI that you select. I picked the dental research lab and it was the best decision that I ever made. I got a publication out of that lab (working on a couple more) and also got to know a lot of the dental school faculty.

When I applied to dental schools, I got interviews at 6 different schools and got accepted to 5 of them. My DAT was good (20/20 I think). My GPA was about where you are now though. I ended up choosing to leave Midwestern for dental school and I am in a DMD/PhD program at MUSC (3rd year of 8). This decision was made for 2 reasons: I really want to be a dental faculty at a school one day and I don't pay tuition, plus I get a stipend.

My wife graduated as a dentist from Midwestern and we live a great life despite the debt. HOWEVER, ignoring the debt load you will be taking on is foolish. If you want to live a baller life and toss money around, Midwestern will likely not be the school you want to attend. We had a plan on how we are handling the debt, she reached out to jobs that would allow us to live well (her clinical experience allowed her to get up to speed really quickly). We own a house, both of our kids are in private schools, we are investing for the future, and are putting away large sums each month for the eventual tax bomb. Could we be doing better with less debt? Absolutely, but my wife would not change a thing about attending Midwestern for dental school.

Feel free to reach out to me for advice on the master's program or Midwestern's dental program and I will do what I can to help.

It seems like the program helped you reach your goal which is awesome! May I ask how you left Midwestern? Let's say I apply and get in next year, is there a way to opt out of the second year?

Also sorry but your story is extremely interesting considering you did a DMD/PhD and 1/2 of your masters. You managed to walk away from alot of debt. May I ask if you worked as an instructor for dental school or what was the profession because i understand that federal loans can be excused if you work as a teacher to some degree with right amount of payments made, etc.

 

[Bingwen]

Yeah, so I did finish my two years at Midwestern and graduated with my Master's. Technically, you do not need to finish the degree but it is looked down upon. Also, at Midwestern typically the students in the Master's program aren't interviewed until February or so. You would not be accepted into Midwestern until the spring. There have been rare exceptions to this rule, but it is rare. You could get accepted to other schools on December 1st though.

I have always wanted to teach and that lead me to the DMD/PhD program as it set me up nicely to become a faculty. This will allow me to teach, practice, and do research which are the 3 things that I have always wanted to do. I am currently in my 3rd year of the dual degree program. My program starts with the 1st year of dental school, then 4 years of research, then back for the last 3 years of dental school. So currently I am in my 2nd year of research.

You are also correct. By working at most universities you qualify for public service loan forgiveness (PSLF). There are a lot of specifics with this program so work with people to make sure that you qualify. This is true if you work at any qualifying not-for-profit institution (including public health clinics).

I hope this helped clarify things, but obviously, feel free to ask me any questions.

 

[abanoubfarid]

Yeah, so I did finish my two years at Midwestern and graduated with my Master's. Technically, you do not need to finish the degree but it is looked down upon. Also, at Midwestern typically the students in the Master's program aren't interviewed until February or so. You would not be accepted into Midwestern until the spring. There have been rare exceptions to this rule, but it is rare. You could get accepted to other schools on December 1st though.

I have always wanted to teach and that lead me to the DMD/PhD program as it set me up nicely to become a faculty. This will allow me to teach, practice, and do research which are the 3 things that I have always wanted to do. I am currently in my 3rd year of the dual degree program. My program starts with the 1st year of dental school, then 4 years of research, then back for the last 3 years of dental school. So currently I am in my 2nd year of research.

You are also correct. By working at most universities you qualify for public service loan forgiveness (PSLF). There are a lot of specifics with this program so work with people to make sure that you qualify. This is true if you work at any qualifying not-for-profit institution (including public health clinics).

I hope this helped clarify things, but obviously, feel free to ask me any questions.

Wow! Thank you so much for sharing, I'm sure others will find this helpful too!

 

[New_Vegas]

With your stats I probably wouldn't go into dentistry. If you get in somewhere it will be one of those insanely expensive schools, and it will probably just not be worth it imo. I would only do that MBS program if you think you can get meaningful employment with it. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it.

 

[PerioDont]

I don’t care if the school fed you filet mignon’s on gold plates and gave you massage chairs to eat in during lunch, it’s not worth the cost to go there (despite it being a great school).

Now starting my third year in dental school, and also working for 3 years in the dental field before d school, I’d completely bag the whole thing and change careers before I paid what Midwestern charges. Now I couldn’t say that when I was applying because I didn’t realize the financial burden and just thought “I’ll pay it back someday”. With cost of Midwestern, that doesn’t work anymore. The price is financial suicide and unless you have a full ride scholarship, makes no sense and just sets you up to be in debt most of your working career.

The MBS program is iffy. There is no guarantee you will suddenly become an amazing student once you go there and definitely no guarantee you will get into even their own dental school.

I had a friend take the gamble against all advice and do the MBS program at MWU-AZ. He did not end up getting accepted to any dental schools.

Now all he has is thousands in the hole.

With your stats I probably wouldn't go into dentistry. If you get in somewhere it will be one of those insanely expensive schools, and it will probably just not be worth it imo. I would only do that MBS program if you think you can get meaningful employment with it. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it.

Solid advice right here

 

[MG14]

@MG14 Honestly, I totally agree with what you're saying. I don't think it's worth the debt either. This is part of the reason why I'm having such a hard time making a decision. I got accepted into only 2-year programs so far and debt burden is around the same. But Midwestern is giving me until Monday to make the decision. Hopefully, I get into a program that is less expensive and time consuming, I really have my heart set out for dentistry!

Yeah. I feel you. It’s a really really tough decision. In the end I think your future self will thank you though. Dentistry is great, but you can be successful, make comfortable income and be just as satisfied in your career in various other fields. I think you save yourself a TON of headache, heart ache and undo stress. At some of the costs they’re charging, it’s just not worth the financial burden and stress. And trust me, the stress alone should not be underestimated. Obviously that’s all just my opinion. But best of luck to you!

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

And what are you going to do with this degree if you don’t get in? Regret it, that’s what. And even if you get in, you’ll probably regret it. You’re going to spend $80,000 in tuition with living expenses on top of that. Are you willing to gamble $120,000+ that this will get you in? If you were successful and stayed on at Midwestern for dental school, you’d owe $800,000+ when all is said and done. Are you out of your mind?! How much money do you really think dentists make?

And their own website shows it has a pretty crappy success rate for those trying to go on to some type of professional school. Higher Ed is becoming such an absolute scam...

Big Hoss

 

[doc toothache]

And what are you going to do with this degree if you don’t get in? Regret it, that’s what. And even if you get in, you’ll probably regret it. You’re going to spend $80,000 in tuition with living expenses on top of that. Are you willing to gamble $120,000+ that this will get you in? If you were successful and stayed on at Midwestern for dental school, you’d owe $800,000+ when all is said and done. Are you out of your mind?! How much money do you really think dentists make?

And their own website shows it has a pretty crappy success rate for those trying to go on to some type of professional school. Higher Ed is becoming such an absolute scam...

View attachment 340959

Big Hoss

Your views on the cost of education may be legendary, and rightly so. Your rhetorical question on "what are you going to do with this degree if you don't get in" applies to a large portion of the roughly 5K applicants each year that do not gain acceptance to ds. Your pronouncement of the "pretty crappy success rate" of the MW graduate outcome for 2018 is a matter of perspective. A 58% rate of acceptance certainly is a feather in MW's hat even under the assumption that none of the 42%, who could not be bothered to respond, were not accepted at any professional programs.

 

[navdeep_1992]

Your views on the cost of education may be legendary, and rightly so. Your rhetorical question on "what are you going to do with this degree if you don't get in" applies to a large portion of the roughly 5K applicants each year that do not gain acceptance to ds. Your pronouncement of the "pretty crappy success rate" of the MW graduate outcome for 2018 is a matter of perspective. A 58% rate of acceptance certainly is a feather in MW's hat even under the assumption that none of the 42%, who could not be bothered to respond, were not accepted at any professional programs.

I agree with @Big Time Hoosier . Why doesn’t MWU list the EXACT name of the med, dental and PA schools?

for all you know it can be 12 Caribbean schools, 1 PA, 1 Phd and 1 dental

my own BMS program listed the exact name of the school for EACH year’s outcomes. If the school is unable to provide that then steer clear.


OP has terrible stats. I had a worse gpa but a killer mcat far above my school’s average which shows that I’m smart but just did not know how to study in undergrad. Also, I’ll end up with less than half the debt OP will end up in while making 2x as a doctor.

if OP had a 22 DAT then that would show they’re capable of handling the rigors (my bms program was far more stressful than med school). I was always pressured to get 92%+ whereas in med school I can get a 75% and not care

anyways, a program’s success rate is irrelevant unless it’s 90%+. For all you know those 15 could have had 3.3/20 to begin with and therefore are more successful. We had students like that in my bms (3.3/504) who didn’t get accepted DO due to random chance but were successful the following cycle.

 

[doc toothache]

I agree with @Big Time Hoosier . Why doesn’t MWU list the EXACT name of the med, dental and PA schools?

for all you know it can be 12 Caribbean schools, 1 PA, 1 Phd and 1 dental

my own BMS program listed the exact name of the school for EACH year’s outcomes. If the school is unable to provide that then steer clear.


OP has terrible stats. I had a worse gpa but a killer mcat far above my school’s average which shows that I’m smart but just did not know how to study in undergrad. Also, I’ll end up with less than half the debt OP will end up in while making 2x as a doctor.

if OP had a 22 DAT then that would show they’re capable of handling the rigors (my bms program was far more stressful than med school). I was always pressured to get 92%+ whereas in med school I can get a 75% and not care

The why should be best addressed to MW.
"For all we know", 11 respondents couldn’t even be bothered to respond as to the specific program, let alone disclose the "EXACT name of the med, dental and pa schools" they chose.

 

[Bingwen]

So, 2018 was the year before I graduated. From my memory, in 2017 all but one got accepted (he got accepted the following year), in 2018 I believe all of the pre-dental students that applied got accepted. All the MBS students that applied dental, in my year 2019, got accepted. Dental has a pretty good placement rate, medicine much less so.

Though it's a fair question on what you do with your degree. I have always wanted to do research and while this masters is expensive it would have assisted my plan B career path. Again it is important to keep in mind that the 1-year program is very rigorous class-wise. While the 2-year program is less so, it is still a very hard program. Make sure you know for sure you can handle it. If you don't do well, it will absolutely be a nail in your coffin.

From the DAT point of view you need to be within 1 SD of the accepted total DAT score (assuming they haven't changed it).

 

[abanoubfarid]

And what are you going to do with this degree if you don’t get in? Regret it, that’s what. And even if you get in, you’ll probably regret it. You’re going to spend $80,000 in tuition with living expenses on top of that. Are you willing to gamble $120,000+ that this will get you in? If you were successful and stayed on at Midwestern for dental school, you’d owe $800,000+ when all is said and done. Are you out of your mind?! How much money do you really think dentists make?

And their own website shows it has a pretty crappy success rate for those trying to go on to some type of professional school. Higher Ed is becoming such an absolute scam...

View attachment 340959

Big Hoss

I love love love your honesty, this is the type of question I am having also! I don't know the answer to any of these questions, I just see an opportunity and I am asking the internet for their opinion. When I think about it, I can go through the program and get into a dental school but at what cost, I am not certain if it is worth it.

 

[abanoubfarid]

So, 2018 was the year before I graduated. From my memory, in 2017 all but one got accepted (he got accepted the following year), in 2018 I believe all of the pre-dental students that applied got accepted. All the MBS students that applied dental, in my year 2019, got accepted. Dental has a pretty good placement rate, medicine much less so.

Though it's a fair question on what you do with your degree. I have always wanted to do research and while this masters is expensive it would have assisted my plan B career path. Again it is important to keep in mind that the 1-year program is very rigorous class-wise. While the 2-year program is less so, it is still a very hard program. Make sure you know for sure you can handle it. If you don't do well, it will absolutely be a nail in your coffin.

From the DAT point of view you need to be within 1 SD of the accepted total DAT score (assuming they haven't changed it).

Thank you! I signed on to the program for now but I have my heart set on dentistry and I only see myself doing that with the degree but I am also open to teaching and research as an alternative. I did research during undergrad and enjoyed it for the most part.

 

[abanoubfarid]

The MBS program is iffy. There is no guarantee you will suddenly become an amazing student once you go there and definitely no guarantee you will get into even their own dental school.

I had a friend take the gamble against all advice and do the MBS program at MWU-AZ. He did not end up getting accepted to any dental schools.

Now all he has is thousands in the hole.

Solid advice right here

Coming from a periodontist, I've only meet the smartest people who are in Perio. What do you suggest I do with my stats given that I am set on dentistry and don't have the stats?
I am waiting on a 1-year Masters program also an MBS, but if you were in my situation with your experience, what would be the right move?

 

[PerioDont]

Coming from a periodontist, I've only meet the smartest people who are in Perio. What do you suggest I do with my stats given that I am set on dentistry and don't have the stats?
I am waiting on a 1-year Masters program also an MBS, but if you were in my situation with your experience, what would be the right move?

What state are you a resident of? Can you possibly go to a local school and try an informal post bacc to repair your GPA?

truthfully I don't know much about how to do GPA repair. hopefully someone else can chime in about cost effective ways to do that

 

[abanoubfarid]

What state are you a resident of? Can you possibly go to a local school and try an informal post bacc to repair your GPA?

truthfully I don't know much about how to do GPA repair. hopefully someone else can chime in about cost effective ways to do that

I am a resident in California and you are the second person to tell me to do an informal post bac or to just take courses to improve my GPA. This might not be a bad idea!

 

[Tvirtumas]

I am a resident in California and you are the second person to tell me to do an informal post bac or to just take courses to improve my GPA. This might not be a bad idea!

I would definitely take a look at post-bacc programs with linkages. With that said, I am currently applying with a 2.97 undergrad with the last semester of my masters in the fall. I have one interview so far so take this with a grain of salt. I was told that when you are <3.0 then you need to do a masters.

There are cheaper options, but you need to contact dental schools and see what they expect from you to get in. Usually, they will recommend some programs which may or may not be cheaper/better than midwestern. I'd be wary of post-baccs because they add to your undergrad gpa. If it is too low then it wont make a difference and your app will be thrown out. Do a quick math calculation with your GPA and see where it will be after 2 years of post-bacc at a 4.0.

tl;dr contact dental schools and do a masters if they tell you to do a masters