Failed part 2

[krazyk21]

Hey everyone, I found out on monday that I didn't pass part 2 for the second time. My school notified me that I can either take part 2 in May and then scramble to see what is available in May/June for residency spots or to be held back a year and try for next year. They notified me the programs will not see my failure for part 2 but there will be a gap that would need to be explained. Just wondering if anyone knew what the residency spots were like in may/june. Thank you.

About me: high gpa/rank, had top externships on the west coast with interviews, had medical/family issues causing the failures.

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[Weirdy]

You're going to be fighting for scramble spots come May/June.

Better to take the year, study very hard for your Part 2, pass it, and redo the whole residency process then lock yourself in for 3 years at a subpar program.

No program worth going to is going to have open spots in May / June.

Getting held back 1 year vs being locked into a bad program for 3 years with subpar training the rest of your life- what do you think is worse?

 

[med2345]

I looked at your past history. You’re a foreign MD grad who passed USMLE 1 and 2? That alone and the fact you went to podiatry school afterwards you should’ve definitely passed part 2. Did you prepare well enough? I know I’m not answering your question. But I am surprised.

 

[krazyk21]

My biggest fear would be waiting a year and then not getting into a residency or again one that isn't as well. Plus waiting an entire year as opposed to starting in July. I am an older student with a family and kids too. I had family issues that really affected me unfortunately.

 

[med2345]

My biggest fear would be waiting a year and then not getting into a residency or again one that isn't as well. Plus waiting an entire year as opposed to starting in July. I am an older student with a family and kids too. I had family issues that really affected me unfortunately.

Personally I would retake it in May, there’s a chance there are decent spots open at the end of the day if it’s an average program it’ll get you to where you need to be. Sure you may not have the strongest surgical diversity getting out but at the end of the day 90-95 percent of podiatry is the same stuff in practice and hospitals. But I could see why others would say redo the year.

 

[GreenHousePub]

Retake in May and then take whatever open spot is available, and just get residency over with. Money in podiatry does not come from being a super surgeon, and I believe there is no correlation to what residency you go to and success afterwards.

 

[med2345]

Retake in May and then take whatever open spot is available, and just get residency over with. Money in podiatry does not come from being a super surgeon, and I believe there is no correlation to what residency you go to and success afterwards.

I also agree with this. Another factor is I can assume your debt is pretty tremendous from doing MD and DPM. Another year is another year lost and interest. And not to mention another year of tuition and housing for rotations

 

[PTPuser]

You're stuck between a rock and a hard place. There's no easy way out of this without giving something up...I feel for you and it really sucks.

I agree with Weirdy but also at the same time I can't imagine another year of lost income into this dumpster fire anymore...

But both arguments put forth by other posters are really valid.

Will you be ready for the retake in May or will you need truly one whole year to re-study? What did you use to study and what section did you failed?

I think biggest thing is figuring out how you can pass this exam. I'm sure family issue is tough but is that now resolved for you to focus on the May exam? Or that something that is lingering and may need a long period of time to resolve so you can focus?

I think the biggest thing you have to figure out is why you failed. If it's all family issues then you need to make sure that's resolved.

Again, I'm sorry you're going through this. I don't wish this on my worst enemy.

 

[Weirdy]

1 year of lost income

Or going to a NY scramble program when you could've gone to a Kaiser/Scripps?

Maybe I'm just biased.

If it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, choose whatever option graduates you the quickest.

 

[krazyk21]

1 year of lost income

Or going to a NY scramble program when you could've gone to a Kaiser/Scripps?

Maybe I'm just biased.

If it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, choose whatever option graduates you the quickest.

My issue is would those same programs be interested in me the second time around. Or would have that bridge be burned.

 

[Weirdy]

My issue is would those same programs be interested in me the second time around. Or would have that bridge be burned.

If you're being held back a year, would you still repeat your rotations?
If retake Part 2 and pass with flying colors- unless there is something wrong with you as a person and have no sense of self awareness to gauge how well they genuinely like you- why would you be at a disadvantage compared to other 4th years around you?

Its your second time doing all of this. You should have the advantage and expected to be heads and shoulders above every 4th year you rotate with. Its their first time going in to every rotation. Its not your first time.

You talk about your family and kids and how you don't want to be held back by this so you can move on with your life.
Are you willing to relocate your family to a random state for the next 3 years where you have little to no say where you'll end up?
Does your spouse have a job lined up in that area? (You won't even know yet)
Do you have any family to help with the kids? (Again, you don't know where you're going yet)
Have you talked to classmates or upperclassmen who have scrambled before? Do you fully understand what a cluster**** that entire process is?

Again- if there is a condition with your school saying "No, you will not repeat rotations, you will only be held back and reapply during interviews next year" then I'd do what everyone above is suggesting and try your chances with scramble.

If your school is saying you will repeat the entirety of 4th year- where you know you'll be head and shoulders above the class below you- then I'd repeat the year to ensure you are maximizing your chances of landing a "competitive West Coast" residency.

If a program you've already been at is asking you why you are here again- just be up front with them. "I had an event happen in the family and had to retake Part 2. I passed and now I am here and still very interested in attending your program for residency."
Then you work your ass off without being a snob about it.


Programs do not care what happens to you or any other student around you. What they care about is filling their spot with the BEST future resident they can. They will promise you things. They will tell you and 20 other classmates you were in their top 5. Nothing is guaranteed.

The only factor you can control is face time during a rotation and your personality / work ethic.

 

[GreenHousePub]

My issue is would those same programs be interested in me the second time around. Or would have that bridge be burned.

BTW programs can see how many times you have taken part 2. I saw someones CRIP sheet who failed it 5 times.

 

[JustAPedicurist]

1 year of lost income

Or going to a NY scramble program when you could've gone to a Kaiser/Scripps?

Maybe I'm just biased.

If it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, choose whatever option graduates you the quickest.

There will be a lot of scramble spots this year I believe. But don’t quote me for that as a fact, just hearsay. I would try to scramble for sure. Don’t wait a year

 

[Feli]

There will be a lot of scramble spots this year I believe. But don’t quote me for that as a fact, just hearsay. I would try to scramble for sure. Don’t wait a year

Yes... this. ^^^

These years are the last ones where residency balance is tipped (slightly) in students' favor.

Your pod school is lying to you to collect more tuition from your misfortune. Tale as old as time (ask any "5 year program," "6 year program," etc podiatry student). Programs know who did not graduate in 4 years or who failed boards, as mentioned above in many ways.

It gets riskier and riskier to be applying as a past grad / retaker. Those retakers and prior year grads are always the first people affected by residency crunch/shortage; programs know there is a black mark on those applicants and will look to avoid them (except the poorer quality residencies, which you can get now... in scramble). There will be more students per good quality residency spot each year from here on out. Even some of the residency programs/spots listed on CASPR directory will turn out to be closed, not accepting resident, whatever. The grass is not greener by taking another year of compounded debt.

The number of DPM grads is only increasing annually from here on out (esp large increase when TX and LE start graduating students in 2027). The number of good spots is not increasing... if anything, the number of good spots is going down as may programs are pressured by CPME and adding resident spots withOUT adding attendings/cases - and therefore watering down the training and surgical volume per resident. Average programs become below avg, good become avg, etc when spots are added.

...for OP, I would absolutely take the retake pt2 asap in May, get the best scramble program you can, apply yourself there (and look to transfer to a better program if it opens up), start making money, and start getting towards truly lucrative job options as an attending DPM. Use it as a learning experience and don't sleep on board exams again.

Besides the risks of resident spot quality, you are not young and not a single 26 year old who can waste time with sitting out a year, doing fellowship, or other nonsense. A year of your life is a year of your life, and the podiatry match - or job search - won't get any easier going forward with more and more "foot and ankle surgeon" grads out there. Your eyes and hands and back don't last forever, and you want compounding interest and income working FOR you instead of against you asap (this is also why fellowship is generally stupid, for podiatry). GLuck.

Retake in May and then take whatever open spot is available, and just get residency over with. ...

Yes, this is the winning play. ^^
I would add keep your eyes open for potential transfer to a better program, but get the best spot you can asap and keep moving forward.

 

[footshazam]

Hey everyone, I found out on monday that I didn't pass part 2 for the second time. My school notified me that I can either take part 2 in May and then scramble to see what is available in May/June for residency spots or to be held back a year and try for next year. They notified me the programs will not see my failure for part 2 but there will be a gap that would need to be explained. Just wondering if anyone knew what the residency spots were like in may/june. Thank you.

About me: high gpa/rank, had top externships on the west coast with interviews, had medical/family issues causing the failures.

Keep your head up and study for the May test is my best advice. We all go through stuff at one point or another. Don’t let it get you too down!

 

[GroundGripper]

I agree with @footshazam ! Get in, take the exam and then apply for whatever program is available. There will be spots. Its not ideal but an extra year of paying up is not worth it in my opinion. I know programs can see how many times you've retaken boards and it will come up during interviews and imagine if you (I am not saying you would, but just pretend), if you end up scrambling next year? Would waiting the extra year and paying up tuition for an additional year be worth it then? You got this.

 

[Robin-jay]

I know someone who waited nearly 20 years to start residency after they graduated podiatry school. It's definitely possible to get a residency regardless of your situation, even if it's not the best. But that guy actually did get a decent residency anyway.

It's incredibly hard to destroy your career as podiatrist lol.

You could probably fail out of a residency and still find another residency. Hell, you could probably fail out of 2 or more residencies and there would probably still be residencies out there who would take you.

Long story short, this career isn't the best for many reasons, but it's incredibly hard to actually destroy your career in this field.

The only way I've ever seen people lose their prospects on this career is fail too many classes their first year, or fail boards part 1 three times and get barred from re-entering ever again.

 

[GreenHousePub]

I know someone who waited nearly 20 years to start residency after they graduated podiatry school.

I, too, know people who have made huge mistakes as well

 

[Feli]

....The only way I've ever seen people lose their prospects on this career is fail too many classes their first year, or fail boards part 1 three times and get barred from re-entering ever again.

What are you talking about? "The only way"???

Did you pay attention in 4th year pod school risk/law classes... or ever run a simple Google search... or look at meeting minutes for state podiatry boards?

• Plenty of DPMs lose their hospital privileges (malpractice, hard to work with, sexual harassment, other crazy behavior).
• Plenty more DPMs lose their state license (same stuff as above... usually worse degree, drugs or alcohol, felony, etc).
• Plenty of DPMs get kicked off MCR or other insurances (fraud... maybe a NYC resident circa 2006 or 2007 whi$tleblows them before going to fellowship).

Rest assured, it's no worry for the profession, we still have waaay too many DPMs out there without those ones practicing (or relegated to house call and nursing home jobs billing as some other DPM). Despite the baddest apples falling away, there will still be $100k salary DPM jobs signed every day, and good hospital jobs will still get hundreds of DPM apps within days.

 

[Robin-jay]

What are you talking about? "The only way"???

Did you pay attention in 4th year pod school risk/law classes... or ever run a simple Google search... or look at meeting minutes for state podiatry boards?

• Plenty of DPMs lose their hospital privileges (malpractice, hard to work with, sexual harassment, other crazy behavior).
• Plenty more DPMs lose their state license (same stuff as above... usually worse degree, drugs or alcohol, felony, etc).
• Plenty of DPMs get kicked off MCR or other insurances (fraud... maybe a NYC resident circa 2006 or 2007 whi$tleblows them before going to fellowship).

Rest assured, it's no worry for the profession, we still have waaay too many DPMs out there without those ones practicing (or relegated to house call and nursing home jobs billing as some other DPM). Despite the baddest apples falling away, there will still be $100k salary DPM jobs signed every day, and good hospital jobs will still get hundreds of DPM apps within days.

Obviously you can lose your license doing incredibly dumb things.

I was anecdotally noting what I've personally seen and reassuring the OP that getting a residency is entirely possible under reasonable circumstances regardless of time spent as a post-grad without residency.

The clear main takeaway was that someone that didn't have a residency in 20 years after graduation was still able to get a decent residency once they applied.

I'm sure further down the road has some interesting cases to losing licensure, etc., but I don't think that's unique to podiatry.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Best of luck. Study hard.

 

[Robin-jay]

If you're being held back a year, would you still repeat your rotations?
If retake Part 2 and pass with flying colors- unless there is something wrong with you as a person and have no sense of self awareness to gauge how well they genuinely like you- why would you be at a disadvantage compared to other 4th years around you?

Its your second time doing all of this. You should have the advantage and expected to be heads and shoulders above every 4th year you rotate with. Its their first time going in to every rotation. Its not your first time.

You talk about your family and kids and how you don't want to be held back by this so you can move on with your life.
Are you willing to relocate your family to a random state for the next 3 years where you have little to no say where you'll end up?
Does your spouse have a job lined up in that area? (You won't even know yet)
Do you have any family to help with the kids? (Again, you don't know where you're going yet)
Have you talked to classmates or upperclassmen who have scrambled before? Do you fully understand what a cluster**** that entire process is?

Again- if there is a condition with your school saying "No, you will not repeat rotations, you will only be held back and reapply during interviews next year" then I'd do what everyone above is suggesting and try your chances with scramble.

If your school is saying you will repeat the entirety of 4th year- where you know you'll be head and shoulders above the class below you- then I'd repeat the year to ensure you are maximizing your chances of landing a "competitive West Coast" residency.

If a program you've already been at is asking you why you are here again- just be up front with them. "I had an event happen in the family and had to retake Part 2. I passed and now I am here and still very interested in attending your program for residency."
Then you work your ass off without being a snob about it.


Programs do not care what happens to you or any other student around you. What they care about is filling their spot with the BEST future resident they can. They will promise you things. They will tell you and 20 other classmates you were in their top 5. Nothing is guaranteed.

The only factor you can control is face time during a rotation and your personality / work ethic.

Failing boards part 2 has absolutely zero effect on graduating with a DPM.

Is it even possible to repeat fourth year if you already passed fourth year, by officially attending the school?

I would think the most intelligent thing to do for OP if he decided to stay back a year would be just to visit programs without going through the externships at the school.

Medicine is a game of marathons, not races.

Who honestly even cares if there is a gap between graduating and starting residency.

 

[Dr. Little Foot]

You're going to be fighting for scramble spots come May/June.

Better to take the year, study very hard for your Part 2, pass it, and redo the whole residency process then lock yourself in for 3 years at a subpar program.

No program worth going to is going to have open spots in May / June.

Getting held back 1 year vs being locked into a bad program for 3 years with subpar training the rest of your life- what do you think is worse?

This is wack advice man. OP, just take Part 2 in May and see what's available once you get your pass result from that. If there's nothing remotely acceptable out there, then you can always wait until next cycle to apply. But you may find at that point that there is an ok position available to you. No reason to not take the test in May; gives you way more flexibility, and way less anxiety over the next year.