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Why not?UC Berkeley and I believe the UCs in general do not take race into consideration in admissions. As a result Berkeley is 42% Asian. I hear it is very difficult to get into. I’m not sure if that’s really the best way to structure things.
The whole system is a train wreck. First thing should be to remove the tax exempt status of education systems, with the possible exception of community college.
Harvard has a $60 bil endowment and they pay no taxes so they can employ activist and name-brand professors.
UC Berkeley and I believe the UCs in general do not take race into consideration in admissions. As a result Berkeley is 42% Asian. I hear it is very difficult to get into. I’m not sure if that’s really the best way to structure things.
There is nothing in this ruling that prohibits using "life experience" in their admission process. They just can't be racist.patients want doctors who have similar life lived experiences as themselves.
i know that the majority of people on this forum will not understand, but for certain minorities that have been subjected to systemic racism in heatlhcare, the thought of being told what to do by a member of the majority is unsettling at best.
Black Americans don’t trust our healthcare system — here’s why
OPINION | The U.S. medical establishment has a long legacy of discriminating and exploiting black Americans, this is one reason for the distrust.thehill.com
yes yes, i know. "oh its not me doing it". "this was in the past, why cant they let go of it?" "things have changed!"
speaking of the Catholic Church...
US Conference of Catholic Bishops:
Speaking of AI, I downloaded ChatGPT for the first time two days ago.Ho hum..I wonder if the bots will care if one of them is lighter than the other or one of their “eyes” are more slanted than the other. Oh right they won’t, and that’s why they have taken over the world. Cause all that matters is work, not getting tired, no emotion, no need to take a ****. Just production. Funny thing is..AI has the work “ethic” I mean programming of what the youth of the world no longer has.
Bots have taken over for the failure of humans to get stronger.
Here’s why AI will likely work, if there is a “generation” of bots that don’t work properly, either they can be reprogrammed or put into storage. They aren’t coddled to believing they are ok and then have society adapt to their needs.
It doesn’t handle math very well. But if you need a cover letter, or other business jumbo jumbo filler words, it’s fantastic.Speaking of AI, I downloaded ChatGPT for the first time two days ago.
The first question I asked it was this -
Assuming the probability of winning the lottery with a single ticket is 1:100,000,000 - would my chance of winning be better to buy 100 tickets on a single draw, or buy a single ticket on 100 draws.
It said that doing 100 draws would be slightly better and gave the equations and stuff.
Then, I told my office mate this and he said - no way…it has to be the same.
So I asked it the exact same question the next day and it said the probabilities were the same.
So…it can’t be trusted - but it was VERY convincing. We are screwed. We won’t be able to trust anything in the future.
It won’t even be a member of the majority. If you look at student body breakdown, eliminating race from consideration actually decreases the proportion of white students as the proportion of Asian students goes up.patients want doctors who have similar life lived experiences as themselves.
i know that the majority of people on this forum will not understand, but for certain minorities that have been subjected to systemic racism in heatlhcare, the thought of being told what to do by a member of the majority is unsettling at best.
the probability is that there is a mininscule increased likelihood when you buy all the tickets at once.Speaking of AI, I downloaded ChatGPT for the first time two days ago.
The first question I asked it was this -
Assuming the probability of winning the lottery with a single ticket is 1:100,000,000 - would my chance of winning be better to buy 100 tickets on a single draw, or buy a single ticket on 100 draws.
It said that doing 100 draws would be slightly better and gave the equations and stuff.
Then, I told my office mate this and he said - no way…it has to be the same.
So I asked it the exact same question the next day and it said the probabilities were the same.
So…it can’t be trusted - but it was VERY convincing. We are screwed. We won’t be able to trust anything in the future.
i think patient want doctors who know what they were doing, rather than what they look like.patients want doctors who have similar life lived experiences as themselves.
i know that the majority of people on this forum will not understand, but for certain minorities that have been subjected to systemic racism in heatlhcare, the thought of being told what to do by a member of the majority is unsettling at best.
Black Americans don’t trust our healthcare system — here’s why
OPINION | The U.S. medical establishment has a long legacy of discriminating and exploiting black Americans, this is one reason for the distrust.thehill.com
yes yes, i know. "oh its not me doing it". "this was in the past, why cant they let go of it?" "things have changed!"
speaking of the Catholic Church...
US Conference of Catholic Bishops:
i think patient want doctors who know what they were doing, rather than what they look like.
Exactly. Agree with you both.May the best man/woman win.
Nature is meritocracy.Exactly. Agree with you both.
What is so hard for others to understand that meritocracy is best for the country and for patients?
It is true but I still feel very bad for that gazelle when the hyenas tear it apart.Nature is meritocracy.
I feel bad for the hyenas when they miss out on their meal bc they never got to choose whether or not they want to be a hyena and unfortunately death is required for life.It is true but I still feel very bad for that gazelle when the hyenas tear it apart.
NatureisMetal is a “must follow” on Instagram.
there is a lot of fear amongst certain minorities because, historically, the medical profession did do inappropriate research and treatments on them.i think patient want doctors who know what they were doing, rather than what they look like.
what may be best for the country is meritocracy with equal representationExactly. Agree with you both.
What is so hard for others to understand that meritocracy is best for the country and for patients?
what may be best for the country is meritocracy with equal representation
you may not see much difference in the ivies or other big time universities. these universities have an extraordinarily high rate of legacy admissions.It won’t even be a member of the majority. If you look at student body breakdown, eliminating race from consideration actually decreases the proportion of white students as the proportion of Asian students goes up.
Affirmative Action isn’t “black students taking spots away from white students,” it’s everyone taking spots away from Asian Americans when you define “merit” as academic achievement. So…thanks, I guess? I think a lot of people are going to be *very* disappointed when they figure this out.
roughly comparable % of minority candidates with appropriate credentials compared to the population at large.Confusing statement
...and what if minorities aren't comparable?roughly comparable % of minority candidates with appropriate credentials compared to the population at large.
If they want a diverse student body, schools need to go the extra mimile.
MCAT correlates with med school success, Step scores, which correlate with board certification.I just want to add that "merit" and "future great doctor" doesn't necessarily mean high standardized test scores and GPA. These measures are great for schools to quickly parse through and disposition applicants.
I know someone who failed step 1 and is now a program director. And not an underrepresented minority.MCAT correlates with med school success, Step scores, which correlate with board certification.
Anecdotally, docs I know who have failed boards are underwhelming.
Also anecdotally, I did a TY year, and my class was mostly derm, rad, ophtho--high Step fields. On IM rotations, they were sharper than the IM interns.
MCAT tests were apparently reviewed multiple times, including in 2015.Nope.
Test scores matter. Personality and judgement also matter, but test scores matter significantly on many levels.
You won't let someone with a sub-200 Step 1 operate on your mother, and that's just a fact.
in an equal world, where all children have access to quality education, appropriate role models, healthy and enough food, then the typical college undergrad class should be 75% asian and 25% the rest...and what if minorities aren't comparable?
By minorities I'm sure you're exclusively referring to African Americans and Hispanics?
Asians are minorities of course.
An outlier wouldn't you say? Hence why a story like that would elicit surpriseI know someone who failed step 1 and is now a program director. And not an underrepresented minority.
Are they an outlier? I only know the story because they were my classmate. Do you know the Step 1 score of all the doctors you work with?An outlier wouldn't you say? Hence why a story like that would elicit surprise
We all want everyone to do well. I want every white, black, green and orange person to be successful and lead lives in which they find fulfillment and happiness.MCAT tests were apparently reviewed multiple times, including in 2015.
the reviews for the most part show that there is minimal racial bias in the MCATs. but that is per MCAT and not an independent agency.
the SATs however are thought to hold some racial bias.
and STEP tests also.
test scores particularly SATs should matter less than they do. it seems reasonable to use MCATs as there is evidence to show that test score results correlate with how well students do in the 1st and 2nd year.
but i understand they are so easy to use to segregate out undesirables (by that i mean those with low test scores).
and fwiw, STEP may not correlate with clinical competency.
Are United States Medical Licensing Exam Step 1 and 2... : Academic Medicine
medical resident selection decisions and to evaluate the validity argument about the utility of USMLE scores for this purpose. Method This is a research synthesis using the critical review approach. The study first describes the chain of reasoning that underlies a validity argument about using...journals.lww.com
and fwiw, technically my MCAT score was zero. i never took it.
in an equal world, where all children have access to quality education, appropriate role models, healthy and enough food, then the typical college undergrad class should be 75% asian and 25% the rest
er, not sure how that slipped out.... i mean 75% white, 14% black, 19% hispanic, 6% asian...
I work with neurosurgeons and a Harvard grad, pretty sure theirs are highAre they an outlier? I only know the story because they were my classmate. Do you know the Step 1 score of all the doctors you work with?
My observation as wellEveryone’s experience is different. I have seen Ivy League trained everything pain docs who practice complete dogma..series of 3 then mbb then rf then stim trial..Harvard everything blah blah. In my opinion it’s crap
In medicine experience trumps everything. Well at least in pain medicine, that’s my perspective.
Implications for pain: none. This belongs in the political arguments thread. It’s the same people having the same tired arguments anyway.
Agreed.Everyone’s experience is different. I have seen Ivy League trained everything pain docs who practice complete dogma..series of 3 then mbb then rf then stim trial..Harvard everything blah blah. In my opinion it’s crap
Very worth goal! And everyone agrees.in an equal world, where all children have access to quality education, appropriate role models, healthy and enough food,
College and medical school admission’s tests can’t be racist anymore than (2+2 = ?) canMCAT tests were apparently reviewed multiple times, including in 2015.
the reviews for the most part show that there is minimal racial bias in the MCATs. but that is per MCAT and not an independent agency.
the SATs however are thought to hold some racial bias.
and STEP tests also.
test scores particularly SATs should matter less than they do. it seems reasonable to use MCATs as there is evidence to show that test score results correlate with how well students do in the 1st and 2nd year.
but i understand they are so easy to use to segregate out undesirables (by that i mean those with low test scores).
and fwiw, STEP may not correlate with clinical competency.
Are United States Medical Licensing Exam Step 1 and 2... : Academic Medicine
medical resident selection decisions and to evaluate the validity argument about the utility of USMLE scores for this purpose. Method This is a research synthesis using the critical review approach. The study first describes the chain of reasoning that underlies a validity argument about using...journals.lww.com
and fwiw, technically my MCAT score was zero. i never took it.
in an equal world, where all children have access to quality education, appropriate role models, healthy and enough food, then the typical college undergrad class should be 75% asian and 25% the rest
er, not sure how that slipped out.... i mean 75% white, 14% black, 19% hispanic, 6% asian...