Dds/md

[MSc44]

ho all im new to the DENTAL forum and im sure this question has been asked before ........how does one go about getting a DDS/MD and being an OMFS.(with out going to med and dental school seperate) DO you go to dental school and then get an MD when you do your residency. IS there any advantage to doing this as opposed to just the DDS.
Can someone please explain

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[ItsGavinC]

ho all im new to the DENTAL forum and im sure this question has been asked before ........how does one go about getting a DDS/MD and being an OMFS.(with out going to med and dental school seperate) DO you go to dental school and then get an MD when you do your residency. IS there any advantage to doing this as opposed to just the DDS.
Can someone please explain

I'll let the actual oral surgeons answer your question in-depth, but you are correct that you go to dental school and then obtain the MD as you do your post-grad training. Not all programs award an MD. Those than do are 6 years, those that don't are 4 years.

 

[drhobie7]

DO you go to dental school and then get an MD when you do your residency. IS there any advantage to doing this as opposed to just the DDS.
Can someone please explain

Yes, dental school first, residency second. You can do a 4 year single degree (DDS) OMS program or a 6 year dual degree (DDS,MD). The benefits of a DDS,MD are practicing plastic surgery in a state like California or becoming the chair of an OMS department at a dental school or hospital.

Generally the first year of residency is OMS. Years 2 and 3 (and sometimes part of 4) are med school. Years 4,5,6 are general surgery, anesthesia, and OMS.

party on.

 

[toofache32]

I'll add this: OMFS is a dental specialty, regardless of whether or not you get an MD. A dental degree is required, while an MD is optional. The residency is traditionally 4 years without the MD or 6 years with the MD. The med school curriculum is integrated into the residency, so you go back and forth from being an OMFS resident to a med student. In theory, the 4- and 6-year programs teach the same thing, because you learn to do OMFS in your residency, not medical or dental school. In reality, some programs are stronger than others in the clinical experience you get, but this is more of a factor of the individual program, not whether or not you get an MD. There are both weak and strong 4-year and 6-year programs out there.

My program is a pretty broad-scope residency although we have both 4-year and 6-year residents. None of our faculty have medical degrees, except a new one we just hired. I like that because it demonstrates the adequacy of our dental background.

Looking at your old posts, it sounds like you may be looking for a back door into med school or an easier way for an MD, but I could be wrong. I'll tell you this is not the case. Getting into OMFS usually requires you to be in the top 10% of your class and top 10% of board scores in the country. This isn't easy at all. I say this as someone who has done both dental and med school as an OMFS resident.

You can also check out these threads:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=201825

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=199347

 

[MSc44]

I'll add this: OMFS is a dental specialty, regardless of whether or not you get an MD. A dental degree is required, while an MD is optional. The residency is traditionally 4 years without the MD or 6 years with the MD. The med school curriculum is integrated into the residency, so you go back and forth from being an OMFS resident to a med student. In theory, the 4- and 6-year programs teach the same thing, because you learn to do OMFS in your residency, not medical or dental school. In reality, some programs are stronger than others in the clinical experience you get, but this is more of a factor of the individual program, not whether or not you get an MD. There are both weak and strong 4-year and 6-year programs out there.

My program is a pretty broad-scope residency although we have both 4-year and 6-year residents. None of our faculty have medical degrees, except a new one we just hired. I like that because it demonstrates the adequacy of our dental background.

Looking at your old posts, it sounds like you may be looking for a back door into med school or an easier way for an MD, but I could be wrong. I'll tell you this is not the case. Getting into OMFS usually requires you to be in the top 10% of your class and top 10% of board scores in the country. This isn't easy at all. I say this as someone who has done both dental and med school as an OMFS resident.

You can also check out these threads:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=201825

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=199347

not looking for a back door to medical school at all. I have the grades for both. However OMFS is somthing that im interested in and was looking at my options as to the pathways of obtaining that. The reason i asked was obviously one can not know for sure unless they try it. I would get a DDS only for OMFS im not really interested in gen.dent. or many other fields that much. So i figured if i had an MD i could have ALL doors open to me should i choose to do straight gen surg. or just plastics. I could not do that with a DDS


Its the trauma and reconstructive stuff of OMFS which i have experianced that i really enjoy, also how does the licensing work, Do you have to take the dental boards and the USMLE or are you just granted the MD but licensed as a DDS.....that sure is a lot of exams i would imaging

thankyou for all the info

thanks though

 

[Yah-E]

not looking for a back door to medical school at all. I have the grades for both. However OMFS is somthing that im interested in and was looking at my options as to the pathways of obtaining that. The reason i asked was obviously one can not know for sure unless they try it. I would get a DDS only for OMFS im not really interested in gen.dent. or many other fields that much. So i figured if i had an MD i could have ALL doors open to me should i choose to do straight gen surg. or just plastics. I could not do that with a DDS

thanks though

If you don't like general dentistry, then dental school will be a miserable 4 long years for you. As result, you most likely will not be in the top of your dental class. I would think long and hard before you want to tackle OMFS. Passion in Dentistry first, then strive for OMFS later.

If I don't match in OMFS in January, then I have absolutely no problems doing sh1t load of general dentistry and start live the life and rack in the dough! I believe either way (match or no match), I'm blessed with my profession!

 

[MSc44]

If you don't like general dentistry, then dental school will be a miserable 4 long years for you. As result, you most likely will not be in the top of your dental class. I would think long and hard before you want to tackle OMFS. Passion in Dentistry first, then strive for OMFS later.

If I don't match in OMFS in January, then I have absolutely no problems doing sh1t load of general dentistry and start live the life and rack in the dough! I believe either way (match or no match), I'm blessed with my profession!

makes scence thankyou

 

[ktcook83]

We have an MD in our class this year. Actually he is in the D1/D2 class. He will finish the D1/D2 in one year and then do years 3 and 4 as normal. He got his MD, did a year of general sx and decided he liked OMS. As I understand it, as long as he passes the next 3 years, he already has a spot in the OMS program which they are allowing him to complete in three years.

 

[ktcook83]

Might I add that going that route is very atypical, but I just thought I would bring it up...

 

[6897729]

If you don't like general dentistry, then dental school will be a miserable 4 long years for you. As result, you most likely will not be in the top of your dental class. I would think long and hard before you want to tackle OMFS. Passion in Dentistry first, then strive for OMFS later.

If I don't match in OMFS in January, then I have absolutely no problems doing sh1t load of general dentistry and start live the life and rack in the dough! I believe either way (match or no match), I'm blessed with my profession!

That's some good advice...However, don't listen to this joker - if you check his posts, he's been OMFS since day one and only went to dental school to become an OMFS.

In fact, he only wants to be an OMFS so he can do facial plastic surgery.

Of course, that probably won't happen, unless he stops extracting the wrong teeth from his patients.

 

[aphistis]

We have an MD in our class this year. Actually he is in the D1/D2 class. He will finish the D1/D2 in one year and then do years 3 and 4 as normal.

Wow. I sure don't envy that guy.

 

[ktcook83]

Wow. I sure don't envy that guy.

Why's that Bill? I mean, at least he's found something he likes to do. Not to mention dental school in 3yrs and residency in 3yrs, for what normally takes 8-10 years to do isn't too shabby. Although he already did med school and a PGY of gen. sx so I see where you're coming from.

BTW, after your excellent board score, I thought you were pondering OMS?

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

If I don't match in OMFS in January, then I have absolutely no problems doing sh1t load of general dentistry and start live the life and rack in the dough!

I wouldn't make mention of this fact during your interviews...

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

Of course, that probably won't happen, unless he stops extracting the wrong teeth from his patients.

If you ask any Oral Surgeon, I promise you that they've extracted the wrong tooth multiple times during their career. If it can happen to experienced guys, it can happen to a student, too...

 

[gryffindor]

I wouldn't make mention of this fact during your interviews...

Then what, in your opinion, is the "right" answer to the question "What are you going to do if you don't match into OMS this year?"

 

[Periogod]

If you ask any Oral Surgeon, I promise you that they've extracted the wrong tooth multiple times during their career. If it can happen to experienced guys, it can happen to a student, too...

Funny YOU should say this or are you talking about a classmate that also went on to OMFS. And, I don't know if you can really say MULTIPLE times.

 

[aphistis]

Why's that Bill? I mean, at least he's found something he likes to do. Not to mention dental school in 3yrs and residency in 3yrs, for what normally takes 8-10 years to do isn't too shabby. Although he already did med school and a PGY of gen. sx so I see where you're coming from.

BTW, after your excellent board score, I thought you were pondering OMS?

Because in most dental schools, second year is full to the brim just by itself. Throwing the D1 stuff on top of that is going to make for a pretty long school year.

And yeah, I'm considering OMS, but it's still undecided. I need to spend some time externing to see what residency is like from down in the trenches.

 

[toofache32]

If you ask any Oral Surgeon, I promise you that they've extracted the wrong tooth multiple times during their career. If it can happen to experienced guys, it can happen to a student, too...

It happened to me in dental school. Funny...me and another guy did this and we were the only 2 to get in to OMFS.

 

[toofache32]

Because in most dental schools, second year is full to the brim just by itself. Throwing the D1 stuff on top of that is going to make for a pretty long school year.

My understanding is that the curriculum is re-formatted so that he doesn't have to repeat what he already had in med school. He basically just does the dental courses without the basic sciences. But that's just my guess. We do basically the same thing when OMFS residents go to med school.

 

[Yah-E]

I wouldn't make mention of this fact during your interviews...

Simply stating I have no shame nor will I mind practicing general dentistry, that's all.

 

[Doggie]

It happened to me in dental school. Funny...me and another guy did this and we were the only 2 to get in to OMFS.

You were probably up there in terms of your numbers as well. Now if your numbers were 36-24-36, that would have been even better!

 

[ktcook83]

My understanding is that the curriculum is re-formatted so that he doesn't have to repeat what he already had in med school. He basically just does the dental courses without the basic sciences. But that's just my guess. We do basically the same thing when OMFS residents go to med school.

Toofache has it exactly right. The only courses he is in of ours are the pre-clinical ones, i.e. clinical foundations, dental anat. & occlusion, etc. So he's just doing the dental related stuff from D1/D2.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

Then what, in your opinion, is the "right" answer to the question "What are you going to do if you don't match into OMS this year?"

I'm not going to tell you a token answer to give. Be honest, but realize there are many ways to say the same thing. You should be able to figure this out on your own.

 

[gryffindor]

I'm not going to tell you a token answer to give. Be honest, but realize there are many ways to say the same thing. You should be able to figure this out on your own.

Thanks.

I wasn't asking for a token answer. I was referring to Yah-E's comment about doing general dentistry. If Yah-E is asked at an interview (say your program) what his back up plan is if he doesn't get into OMFS, and he says "General dentistry since I will be graduating as a DMD and re-apply," - are you and your attendings going to be laughing behind his back b/c that wasn't the "right answer?" Is the "correct" OMFS answer "I will do a an OMS fellowship somewhere."? What if he says "GPR?"

Yeah, I know if Yah-E says "I'm gonna do private practice so I can make some big bucks and cruise in an M3 and reapply," that may not be the most tactful way of saying it.

 

[Yah-E]

Thanks.

I wasn't asking for a token answer. I was referring to Yah-E's comment about doing general dentistry. If Yah-E is asked at an interview (say your program) what his back up plan is if he doesn't get into OMFS, and he says "General dentistry since I will be graduating as a DMD and re-apply," - are you and your attendings going to be laughing behind his back b/c that wasn't the "right answer?" Is the "correct" OMFS answer "I will do a an OMS fellowship somewhere."? What if he says "GPR?"

Yeah, I know if Yah-E says "I'm gonna do private practice so I can make some big bucks and cruise in an M3 and reapply," that may not be the most tactful way of saying it.

You just have to reply sincerely, I wouldn't lie so the interviewers will be pleased with the answers. Just be honest and tactful. All I said was, I like and enjoy dentistry, there's nothing wrong with that. If I don't match and if I don't want to do an internship, I would be very happy being a general dentist! Is that shocking to all of you? We all should be very grateful that we have that to fall back on.

Griffin, you've been on Ortho interviews two years in a row, you should know what to say or not to say by now! When it is my turn, I'll simply speak from my heart and what I believe it's the best for me. It's not the end of world if you don't impress one or two programs, you simply can not impress everyone!

 

[esclavo]

If I don't match and if I don't want to do an internship, I would be very happy being a general dentist! Is that shocking to all of you? We all should be very grateful that we have that to fall back on.

When it is my turn, I'll simply speak from my heart and what I believe it's the best for me. It's not the end of world if you don't impress one or two programs, you simply can not impress everyone!

I also enjoyed general dentistry. I still think it is interesting. BUT when you commit to do OMFS, my opinion (based on experience) is you have to sound "He11 bent" in the interview that it is exactly what you want and that if you don't succeed you'll do an internship (some rare GPR's). If you say, I'll do general dentistry for a year and reapply.....not "strong enough orientation to the specialty". When your application comes in the next year and that year has been spent doing anything other than an internship or notable GPR, then you might be surprised to have fewer if any interviews the 2nd time through. If you apply to OMFS, they don't want to hear about general dentistry at all. In the CV, don't put any experience except for OMFS. I am reviewing applications right now and I'm seeing some studly scores/class ranks with recommends from pedodontists/general dentists and with experience items such as extended general dentistry things and we are giving the nod to the 89 NB with 4 externships and a tight CV and letters of recs from 4 Faculty OMFS (including two program directors) over the 95 NB with a recommend from your mother who happens to be the general dentistry supervisor. You can have your opinion but, keep your interview, CV, and focus tight and you will have a superior chance for an interview and then a higher match number...PERIOD. No offense intended just some helpful tips.

 

[Yah-E]

You can have your opinion but, keep your interview, CV, and focus tight and you will have a superior chance for an interview and then a higher match number...PERIOD. No offense intended just some helpful tips.

Absolutely! Great advice taken! Soaking in like a sponge, baby! I'll know what to say (honestly, tactfully, and sincerely) when time comes for me, trust me.

 

[gryffindor]

Wow, esclavo, thanks for the insightful answer. Straight from the source. I'm sure it will help many OMFS hopefuls.

Yah-E, if I knew all the right answers, I would be a resident right now. That's why I am constantly seeking help & advice on what "right answers" really are. I did say last year, "straight from the heart," that if I didn't match my back up plan was to practice general dentistry. I mean I have a DDS, I did a GPR, what else am I supposed to do. And guess what, now I am eating my words. If you ask an ortho person what one can do if they don't match, the answer is "GPR." But what happens after the GPR? No one really has an answer to that and believe me, I've asked plenty.

Point is, regardless of what you think and truly believe, there are "right" answers to some of the questions, as esclavo nicely pointed out.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

BUT when you commit to do OMFS, my opinion (based on experience) is you have to sound "He11 bent" in the interview that it is exactly what you want and that if you don't succeed you'll do an internship (some rare GPR's). If you say, I'll do general dentistry for a year and reapply.....not "strong enough orientation to the specialty". When your application comes in the next year and that year has been spent doing anything other than an internship or notable GPR, then you might be surprised to have fewer if any interviews the 2nd time through. If you apply to OMFS, they don't want to hear about general dentistry at all.

This is exactly what I've been getting at. If you really want to do OMS, in my opinion, you do an internship if you don't match. There's no choice to make. If you choose general dentistry over a one-year internship in OMS, you're weak and not that interested in oral surgery. Regardless of how interested you really are, this is what I'll think. If I'm interviewing someone that has been doing general dentistry and then applies for OMFS, he/she better have a damn good reason for it.

 

[toofache32]

This is exactly what I've been getting at. If you really want to do OMS, in my opinion, you do an internship if you don't match. There's no choice to make. If you choose general dentistry over a one-year internship in OMS, you're weak and not that interested in oral surgery. Regardless of how interested you really are, this is what I'll think. If I'm interviewing someone that has been doing general dentistry and then applies for OMFS, he/she better have a damn good reason for it.

What he said.

 

[Periogod]

It happened to me in dental school. Funny...me and another guy did this and we were the only 2 to get in to OMFS.

What is it about you guys? This is exactly what happen at our school.

 

[toofache32]

What is it about you guys? This is exactly what happen at our school.

I ain't skeered of no toof!!

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

I did it in dental school, too. The woman thanked me for saving her some money.

Hindsight is always 20/20--always easy to judge. Hooking up with PerioGod's fiancee seemed like a good idea at the time...I needed 125mg of Rocephin and a gram of Zithromax to forget that mistake...

 

[toofache32]

Hooking up with PerioGod's fiancee seemed like a good idea at the time...I needed 125mg of Rocephin and a gram of Zithromax to forget that mistake...

Ha! Fixes that "knee pain" every time!