Columbia vs. Einstein vs. UChicago

[mangobeach]

Hi everyone! Grateful to be in this boat but very conflicted.

COLUMBIA:

Pros:
-large Spanish-speaking community
-great name/prestige and PD research ranking, thinking I might want to do something competitive
-1 week off to take exams and travel and do anything basically after 4-6 week blocks
-in Manhattan, while more north, can still access downtown easily
-AOA released after match

Cons:
-no financial aid, would take out loans at least for tuition
-smaller departments for certain specialties I’m interested in

EINSTEIN:

Pros:
-diverse community as well
-free tuition, I would be debt free
-research is good/great too
-ranking MIGHT shoot up like NYU? what do you guys think, especially with the probation?

Cons:
-in the Bronx, harder to get to Manhattan and downtown proper
-were on probation (if that matters? heard conflicting stuff)
-quizzes and exams every other week for preclinical
-AOA

UCHICAGO:

Pros:
-diverse population, but not as much of a Hispanic community
-small school (90ish kids) so lots of mentorship
-smaller departments, more attention on you as a student if you want to get involved
-a 3-4ish hour drive from S/O

Cons:
-no financial aid, would take out loans at least for tuition
-depts for certain specialties I’m interested in can be more clinically focused vs. research focused

Would love to hear your thoughts, thank you so much for your input!

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[ScienceRoxks!]

Hi! I was also debating between Einstein and some other schools. I think it personally comes down to how much $$ matters to you and what specialties you might pursue in the future. Personally, I would probably always choose free tuition over anything else, but at the same time, I know others will argue that the opportunities at a school like Columbia outweigh the price tag.

Per your point on probation for Einstein: I've spoken to numerous physicians and administrators at other institutions who have been involved in admissions for residency. They said that the probation for Einstein really does not matter. Einstein is arguably "Too big to sink" and they know that the administration is taking steps to make sure all these problems are addressed and it will not affect anything later. They even pointed out that any school in a given year can go on probation, it's impossible to predict.

When touring Einstein, I also had a lot of students say to me that the probation almost felt like a plus for them because it means that the administration is really listening to the students and is almost "whipped" by any requests they make since part of the reason they were put on probation was student feedback ( I believe).

I've also heard that the Ranking shootup thing might not be as good as we might anticipate. I think the numbers for NYU followed a trend like this:
Prior to Free Tuition: 14
Free Tuition: 2
Post Free Tuition initial years: 11.
This isn't verified; I am just speaking from memory, but it is just food for thought.

Overall, I think the difference in life quality offered by not having to worry about loans in the future is immense and can provide freedom to do the things you want to do without the stress of pursuing a higher-paid specialty. For example, if you fall in love with pediatrics, one of the lowest-paid specialties, you might feel obligated to give it up and go to a higher-paying specialty if you attend a school with a higher cost. I hope this all makes sense!

Good luck!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

So I'm not sure exactly how you are comparing the schools here.
1) Spanish-speaking community: comparing NYC to Chicago... two of the three largest metropolises in the US, and UC is on the Southside, so like the Bronx in a way... Columbia isn't THAT far away from the Bronx. This is a total wash... you won't be short on opportunities wherever you go. So how about community opportunities with the populations you have most experience or comfort with?

2) Focus on the curriculum. You mention how Columbia is organized but you don't mention how the other two are structured.

3) The COA loan burden is a significant consideration, and that alone would have me consider Einstein as better.

On LCME accreditation issues, here's what it says on their website:
The LCME determined that Einstein was not compliant in a range of accreditation elements relevant to our institutional processes and educational programs. These include: the absence of a strategic plan; lack of an effective, continuous quality improvement system; insufficient curricular management; and incomplete career counseling.

The strength of our M.D. educational experience was acknowledged by LCME reviewers during their site visit. Einstein students excel on national licensing exams, achieve the residency matches they desire, and are lauded by residency directors across the country for their strong performance in their programs. It should also be noted that Einstein's 10,000 alumni include some of the most successful and distinguished physicians and scientists in the world.

Our leadership, faculty, staff, and students have already corrected some of the issues identified by the LCME and have begun to correct the other issues related to this decision.

As we move forward, we will work closely with the LCME and the Einstein community to resolve the remaining accreditation elements that were identified in their findings. We will, for example, create working groups, including student members, to assess our progress, and provide the Einstein community with frequent updates to the changes taking place. We will also reach out to our clinical partner institutions and engage them in developing solutions.

I am sure that Einstein will find its way to get full accreditation reinstated. They are a long-standing institution and leadership has enough confidence that someone was willing to give them a $1B endowment gift.

 

[johnr42700]

I think Einstein. It's a really great school (close to the others, will only get better), serves the population you're interested in, and the tuition.

Echoing what others said, I don't think the probation issue is anything serious. I heard Baylor was in a similar spot on probation a few years ago, and it just ended up helping quality of life issues. No one remembers it now.