Class of 08 Clerkships

[Podman]

Kaiser (Cleveland) - March
DMC - April/May
St. Barnabas - June
West Penn in September
Ohio State Univeristy in October
July - ?

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[krabmas]

Kaiser (Cleveland) - March
DMC - April/May
St. Barnabas - June
West Penn in September
Ohio State Univeristy in October
July - ?

Go to PSL in Denver in July. It is great as a first externship expecially if you do not want to go there. They pay for housing in a pretty nice hotel, you just need a car. The program is so demanding that it will make the other externships seem easy. They raise the bar and make you want to read more, study more and just be better. Great for getting started.

I used this program as an educational experience and it definitely helped me with my other programs.

 

[Podman]

Go to PSL in Denver in July. It is great as a first externship expecially if you do not want to go there. They pay for housing in a pretty nice hotel, you just need a car. The program is so demanding that it will make the other externships seem easy. They raise the bar and make you want to read more, study more and just be better. Great for getting started.

I used this program as an educational experience and it definitely helped me with my other programs.

Thanks for the tip krabmas! I really appreciate it. I should note that july would not be my first externship - I start next month actually so im kinda nervous because i don't know what to expect

But I think it would be a great experience - and a great way to prepare for West penn in september, as the guys there are huge on research - so it could work out pretty well. I can't see myself taking a vacation in July (as tempting as it sounds) so I'd love to fit another externship there - I'll definitely look it up and keep you posted.

Thanks again!

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Thanks for the tip krabmas! I really appreciate it. I should note that july would not be my first externship - I start next month actually so im kinda nervous because i don't know what to expect

But I think it would be a great experience - and a great way to prepare for West penn in september, as the guys there are huge on research - so it could work out pretty well. I can't see myself taking a vacation in July (as tempting as it sounds) so I'd love to fit another externship there - I'll definitely look it up and keep you posted.

Thanks again!

PSL is full in July. I know b/c that is when I will be there.

 

[oncogene]

Go to PSL in Denver in July. It is great as a first externship expecially if you do not want to go there. They pay for housing in a pretty nice hotel, you just need a car. The program is so demanding that it will make the other externships seem easy. They raise the bar and make you want to read more, study more and just be better. Great for getting started.

I used this program as an educational experience and it definitely helped me with my other programs.

Krabmas,

Why didn't you want to attend PSL? Location or the program?

 

[krabmas]

Krabmas,

Why didn't you want to attend PSL? Location or the program?

It is not about what I wanted.

My first week I realized that I knew nothing and even thought about switching externships after 3 days of torture. I felt like a ***** everyday and was used to feeling pretty smart at good ol NYCPM.

After the 4th day I decided that I would forget trying to figure out what they thought about me (even if it was a *****) and that I would just learn as much as I could before I left. They read a lot and talk about pod stuff all the time. They make you do a 20 minute presentation. Since they read so much you are terrified to not read all the literature on your topic just in case they ask a question, which they will.

I almost never knew the right answer during pimping but I looked stuff up every night and sure did learn a lot.

I tell people that I learned more in one month PSL than I did in the 1st 3 years of school.

I did not learn enough however to go there as a resident. These people are unbelivable in how smart they are (I think).

The reason that I would not speak baddly of them even though they do not want me is

1. that is not my personality
2. that would be petty
3. I felt like they cared that I learned while I was there. It was not like they told me I was too dumb for them, I felt encouraged by them to strive for more. By them I mean the residents and attendings.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

It is not about what I wanted.

My first week I realized that I knew nothing and even thought about switching externships after 3 days of torture. I felt like a ***** everyday and was used to feeling pretty smart at good ol NYCPM.

After the 4th day I decided that I would forget trying to figure out what they thought about me (even if it was a *****) and that I would just learn as much as I could before I left. They read a lot and talk about pod stuff all the time. They make you do a 20 minute presentation. Since they read so much you are terrified to not read all the literature on your topic just in case they ask a question, which they will.

I almost never knew the right answer during pimping but I looked stuff up every night and sure did learn a lot.

I tell people that I learned more in one month PSL than I did in the 1st 3 years of school.

I did not learn enough however to go there as a resident. These people are unbelivable in how smart they are (I think).

The reason that I would not speak baddly of them even though they do not want me is

1. that is not my personality
2. that would be petty
3. I felt like they cared that I learned while I was there. It was not like they told me I was too dumb for them, I felt encouraged by them to strive for more. By them I mean the residents and attendings.

Lets see how I survive.

 

[Feli]

Go to PSL in Denver in July...

That is an interesting idea. After reading your account of how difficult the residents and attendings pimp you and all the reading you did, it does sound like an experience that would push even the best of students. The 4th year students at Barry just finished putting together a packet of reviews on their externship experiences and what they feel are "essential" journal articles; I'm excited to see if any of them went to PSL and what they thought of it.

I may have to look into externing there next year if I can just for a real challenge. Right now, I'm planning to do all of my programs in Mich/OH/PA because that will minimize travel expense and that is where I see myself as a resident and practitioner. Still, it's never bad to try out a top program.

Do you feel that it might be a risk to spend a month externing at a program I'm not truly interested in, though? Or was the experience so good that you feel it greatly improved your performance and ability to answer pimping at your other externships?
...We only go on 5-6 externships (depending if we take a month off or not. I may want to be sure I get a good look at as many of my top choices as possible and that they get an impression of my capabilities before match.

 

[densmore22]

How do you find out about programs other than word of mouth or the CASPR directory? I just want to start educating myself on the different programs and what not and what I'd like to focus on in my training and anticipate being in the top 25% of my class (hopefully top 10) so don't think I'll be limited in my programs I can apply too. Thanks.

 

[krabmas]

That is an interesting idea. After reading your account of how difficult the residents and attendings pimp you and all the reading you did, it does sound like an experience that would push even the best of students. The 4th year students at Barry just finished putting together a packet of reviews on their externship experiences and what they feel are "essential" journal articles; I'm excited to see if any of them went to PSL and what they thought of it.

I may have to look into externing there next year if I can just for a real challenge. Right now, I'm planning to do all of my programs in Mich/OH/PA because that will minimize travel expense and that is where I see myself as a resident and practitioner. Still, it's never bad to try out a top program.

Do you feel that it might be a risk to spend a month externing at a program I'm not truly interested in, though? Or was the experience so good that you feel it greatly improved your performance and ability to answer pimping at your other externships?
...We only go on 5-6 externships (depending if we take a month off or not. I may want to be sure I get a good look at as many of my top choices as possible and that they get an impression of my capabilities before match.

This advise is mostly based on my experience. At NYCPM we only get 3-4externships (next year 4-5).

Originally I was interested in PSL but like I stated before that quickly changed. Since it was my first externship I still had plenty of time to visit other places.

The 2 places that I was ranked highest after interviews were 2 that I only visited or never visited. I was ranked at one place that I externed, that I know of. one of my externships I hated and did not interview.

From that I think visiting is important and externing is great for learning the ropes at a program and getting a learning experience. It is only really necessary to extern at a program you want if the program says it is.

I would extern at the top programs that you might want to go to and visit the rest. This should set you up better for interviews because you should learn more at these top programs.

I do think that the month I spent at PSL set me up to succeed more at my next externships. I had read and discussed 3 journals so I knew all the articles for quoting for my next programs. And at PSL every night it was like I was studying for a test only I had no idea what might be on it. I would read about the procedures the night before but I was always asked something totally different than what I had read. Talk about test anxiety but totally worth it.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

How do you find out about programs other than word of mouth or the CASPR directory? I just want to start educating myself on the different programs and what not and what I'd like to focus on in my training and anticipate being in the top 25% of my class (hopefully top 10) so don't think I'll be limited in my programs I can apply too. Thanks.

There is going to be a residency day next year. Reps from different programs will be there and you can talk to them. Other ways to check them out is go visit some of the programs during your summer off.

 

[gustydoc]

There is going to be a residency day next year. Reps from different programs will be there and you can talk to them. Other ways to check them out is go visit some of the programs during your summer off.

Even better you can talk to the upperclassmen at your school. Even if the fourth year students are all out on rotations the third years have already done a lot of research and most would be more than happy to answer questions about residencies.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Even better you can talk to the upperclassmen at your school. Even if the fourth year students are all out on rotations the third years have already done a lot of research and most would be more than happy to answer questions about residencies.

I'll be honest I take 4th year comments at face value. If you don't get along w/ the attendings at a program does not mean everyone won't. Some students are lazy and I can see them not getting along w/ directors. Then they come back and tell people that this program sucks. I do listen but I also look at case numbers, educational programs, research opportunities, fellowship and external rotations, and number of attendings/reps of attendings in the mix. I'm looking for a program that fills all of these needs.

 

[jonwill]

I'll be honest I take 4th year comments at face value. If you don't get along w/ the attendings at a program does not mean everyone won't. Some students are lazy and I can see them not getting along w/ directors. Then they come back and tell people that this program sucks. I do listen but I also look at case numbers, educational programs, research opportunities, fellowship and external rotations, and number of attendings/reps of attendings in the mix. I'm looking for a program that fills all of these needs.

Always consider the source. If a 4th year gives all kinds of advice and then ends up scrambling, you probably shouldn't take that advice. If a 4th year hated all of their rotations, be skeptical. My disclaimer to the class of 2009 that I recently spoke to was that if I ended up scrambling to some off-shore podiatric surgical residency, they probably shouldn't take any of my advice! There are definitely people in my class that have given what I would consider to be faulty info.

There are guys that are ahead of me that are totally my friends that I would never take advice from. Take advice from those that you want to emulate.

 

[gustydoc]

Take advice from those that you want to emulate.

I guess I kind of figured that this went without saying. Obviously you should always consider the source and realize that all of the info you get is opinion. I don't think I ever implied that someone should chose a residency based on another persons opinion. It's also important to realize at these residency fairs every program you talk to is going to tell you that their program is the best and that is where you should go. You have to gather as much info as you can and then decide what is best for you.

 

[jonwill]

I guess I kind of figured that this went without saying. Obviously you should always consider the source and realize that all of the info you get is opinion. I don't think I ever implied that someone should chose a residency based on another persons opinion. It's also important to realize at these residency fairs every program you talk to is going to tell you that their program is the best and that is where you should go. You have to gather as much info as you can and then decide what is best for you.

I have honestly never seen a bad residency program presentation. Every program has a way of making it sound like the greatest program on the planet! Then students visit the program and wonder where the program in the presentation went

 

[discusdan]

I have heard of students being ranked or interviewed by places they only visited for a day or so. How does the program know you well enough after such a short visit to invest a ranking and potentially a spot to that student?

 

[jonwill]

I have heard of students being ranked or interviewed by places they only visited for a day or so. How does the program know you well enough after such a short visit to invest a ranking and potentially a spot to that student?

Yes, it does happen. Students in my class visited a few programs for a day or two and then applied and were granted interviews. I'd have to say more often than not, a student that does a full rotation there is going to have a better shot. For instance, one guy in my class visited a program for a few days and really liked it. He was granted an interview and ended up being ranked #2 (he is a smart cookie). The reason: They liked both him and #1 but he spent a few days there and the other person did a full month.

So generally speaking (there are always acceptions), students that do a full rotation are going to be ranked higher than those that don't.

 

[dpmgrad]

Hello all, I'm pretty new to the forum, but maybe I'll meet some of you out on externship in the next 18 months. 4th years, good luck on interviews the next several weeks. This is what I got confirmed to extern at:

Jan.'07- West Penn
Mar/April- Penn Presby
April/May- Graduate Hospital
May/June- CCF
July/Aug.- UMDNJ
Jan.'08- U of FL.?

Just wanted to update you on Graduate Hospital. Graduate Hospital is officially closed as of March 1, 2007. I would recommend you touching base with Graduate about your externship. Since you are probably already in the Philly area and at Penn Presby, you probably already know this since some of the Graduate residents have transferred over to Penn Presby to finish out their residency training.