City of Hope to acquire CTCA

[OTN]

From one grifting strategy to another:

Announcing City of Hope's intent to acquire CTCA | City of Hope

Strategic  acquisition of Cancer Treatment Centers of America would advance City of Hope’s vision to expand patient access and democratize world-class cancer care.

www.cityofhope.org

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[Gfunk6]

Press Link

For those of you who don't know, CTCA is the Oncology equivalent to Scientology. They have a very thin veneer of respectability but if you dig even a little deeper you will find a monstrous, for-profit company that tries to only see the rapidly diminishing market of patients with commercial insurance. In addition to the usual Oncology services they also offer unproven supplements and "holistic" treatments. They love to give false hope to desperate, wealthy Stage IV patients while maximizing revenue.

 

[SneakyBooger]

I had a pt who went to one of their sites for chemo.

She said they picked her up at the airport in a limo.

 

[GapCalc]

Significant amount of wallet biopsy-ing happening at CTCA. I'm heartened to hear COH will get in on that.

I could share some serious stories about the kind of care they deliver...

Follow up question: if this goes through, does that mean that all of the CTCA sites become PPS exempt? Because that would be absolutely insane.

 

[BobbyHeenan]

I had a pt who went to one of their sites for chemo.

She said they picked her up at the airport in a limo.

I had a patient tell me that too. Not a limo but “picked me up at the airport in a nice car.”

 

[deleted941485]

Significant amount of wallet biopsy-ing happening at CTCA. I'm heartened to hear COH will get in on that.

I could share some serious stories about the kind of care they deliver...

Follow up question: if this goes through, does that mean that all of the CTCA sites become PPS exempt? Because that would be absolutely insane.

CTCa was all about bilking private payors as much as possible. It was a monster and took away much needed paying patients from a lot of facilities. But I think they know the end is coming, idk what city of hope is gonna offer them. Do they become PFS exempt or something? Most people don’t even recognize COH as a name in cancer out side of the west coast. Where the money is being made and how is unclear to me.

 

[jondunn]

does this mean that every CTCA site will now be PPS-exempt center like city of hope SOMEHOW is?


this is wild and nutty LMAO

 

[jondunn]

my med onc colleagues HATE CTCA. i honestly have had limited interaction.

but what CTCA does is they undermine med oncs, as a good med onc will say 'hey you are appropriate for hospice', meanwhile CTCA will give a patient false HOPE (get it, city of HOPE) for real and bring them in on a gurney/coffin just to give one more cycle of chemo

sad stuff, folks

grifters grift

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

City of Hope Cancer Treatment Centers

From state-of-the-art cancer treatments to supportive therapies that target side effects, our integrative, comprehensive care is delivered by a team of specialists and other cancer experts, all under one roof.

www.cancercenter.com

This guy is a nutter

 

[Gfunk6]

Significant amount of wallet biopsy-ing happening at CTCA.

 

[medgator]

From one grifting strategy to another:

Announcing City of Hope's intent to acquire CTCA | City of Hope

Strategic  acquisition of Cancer Treatment Centers of America would advance City of Hope’s vision to expand patient access and democratize world-class cancer care.

www.cityofhope.org

Reminds me of another great acquisition in history... Grifter buying a smaller ultra grifter

Bank of America Buys Countrywide

The Charlotte-based bank is taking over the nation's biggest mortgage lender. Wall Street Journal reporter James Hagerty discusses what it means for the mortgage market and the economy.

www.npr.org

 

[OTN]

City of Hope Cancer Treatment Centers

From state-of-the-art cancer treatments to supportive therapies that target side effects, our integrative, comprehensive care is delivered by a team of specialists and other cancer experts, all under one roof.

www.cancercenter.com

This guy is a nutter

I'm just gonna leave this here and slowly back away:

Stacie Stephenson – Philanthropist | Physician | Speaker

staciestephenson.com

 

[Reaganite]

COH has been trying to buy out everyone on the West Coast, although they are definitely meeting heavy resistance from non-PPO payers who see through their grift. I guess when you're getting 5-10x CMS for the private patients it doesn't matter.

 

[medgator]

COH has been trying to buy out everyone on the West Coast, although they are definitely meeting heavy resistance from non-PPO payers who see through their grift. I guess when you're getting 5-10x CMS for the private patients it doesn't matter.

Yep...

City of Hope Expands Its High-Quality Oncology Services to Additional Sites Across Southern California

www.cityofhope.org

 

[jondunn]

Their rad onc department must be fat off the grift

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Follow up question: if this goes through, does that mean that all of the CTCA sites become PPS exempt? Because that would be absolutely insane.

If we got a target on our backs after the actions of Danny D/21C/etc in the 2000s, which we are still dealing with the fallout of today, I shudder to think what will happen if there's some sort of transitive PPS-exempt properties which would occur because of this deal.

I refuse to think that this is within the realm of possibility.

 

[jondunn]

If we got a target on our backs after the actions of Danny D/21C/etc in the 2000s, which we are still dealing with the fallout of today, I shudder to think what will happen if there's some sort of transitive PPS-exempt properties which would occur because of this deal.

I refuse to think that this is within the realm of possibility.

Maybe @SimulD knows if the MDACC main affiliates like Banner are similarly also PPS exempt? If so, then that tells us what may be in store for at least some of the Ctca sites

 

[Gfunk6]

COH has been trying to buy out everyone on the West Coast, although they are definitely meeting heavy resistance from non-PPO payers who see through their grift. I guess when you're getting 5-10x CMS for the private patients it doesn't matter.

Well, it looks like we will be soon seeing Medicaid patients being driven around in those CTCA limos.

 

[Radonc90]

So, is this "hope" trying to fix "false hope"?

 

[seper]

There is a CTCA in my area and their RadOncs are very, very far from acceptable. Discussed here ad nauseam

 

[Gfunk6]

So, is this "hope" trying to fix "false hope"?

More like “hope is the first step on the road to disappointment (and bankruptcy)”

City of Hope + CTCA = more financial toxicity than Bernie Madoff and Enron combined

 

[maxxor]

More like “hope is the first step on the road to disappointment (and bankruptcy)”

City of Hope + CTCA = more financial toxicity than Bernie Madoff and Enron combined

What is COH's ancillary service model? Who does their radiology / path etc? Do they outsource to local groups?

I've noticed in my state there's been a large exodus of CTCA med oncs to a respectable hospital system which is trying to build a large employee model practice, perhaps to better control the referrals and downstream revenue. I feel bad for the established group that mostly served that hospital system.

I think here they had a local group do their radiology but that group failed so I'm not sure who does that stuff now.

 

[maxxor]

Maybe @SimulD knows if the MDACC main affiliates like Banner are similarly also PPS exempt? If so, then that tells us what may be in store for at least some of the Ctca sites

Is Banner owned by MDACC or is it just paying MDACC a lot of money to stick their logo up alongside?

In my area, the hospital system hiring all the CTCA Med Oncs has a big MDACC logo too, but I know they are not PPS exempt.

 

[communitydoc13]

I'm guessing their model worked when a larger share of patients had employer based insurance. Tulsa CTCA now part of OK and Philly CTCA bought by Fox-Chase. Guessing this may bring some reputability without a significant decline in financial toxicity.

My experience with CTCA was as follows:
1. Not a destination place for the truly wealthy (that destination is PPS exempt cancer centers, Hopkins, Stanford, etc.) but a destination for the previously working, middle to upper middle class patient who was vulnerable to television marketing.
2. Patients eat up good service and alternative therapies. We should all put effort into good service of course. Judicious, cheap and benign use of alternative therapies also fine IMO as long as they do not interfere with or act as a substitute for SOC. It's just about empowerment and placebo effect. Placebo effect is very, very real. I'm fine with Reiki, yoga and therapy dogs.
3. Dying patients tend to request donations or give legacy gifts to their last caregivers. This may be hospice, or Harvard or CTCA. They are less likely to give these things to the community practice/hospital that was their next to last caregiver.
4. Was never clear to me that they were making any meaningful contribution to research.
5. They usually offered standard therapy with added financial toxicity and travel expense (bundled into the total financially toxic package).

 

[medgator]

Is Banner owned by MDACC or is it just paying MDACC a lot of money to stick their logo up alongside?

In my area, the hospital system hiring all the CTCA Med Oncs has a big MDACC logo too, but I know they are not PPS exempt.

They are all paying fees to use the mdacc name and have access to their trials and tumor boards, likely not getting PPS exempt status. There are mdacc "affiliates" all over the country

 

[RO28]

CTCa was all about bilking private payors as much as possible. It was a monster and took away much needed paying patients from a lot of facilities. But I think they know the end is coming, idk what city of hope is gonna offer them. Do they become PFS exempt or something? Most people don’t even recognize COH as a name in cancer out side of the west coast. Where the money is being made and how is unclear to me.

People on the west coast don’t even recognize COH as a name in cancer

 

[medgator]

People on the west coast don’t even recognize COH as a name in cancer

Kinda like ctca for those of us around the country near one of their centers...a match made in heaven?

 

[RickyScott]

Maybe @SimulD knows if the MDACC main affiliates like Banner are similarly also PPS exempt? If so, then that tells us what may be in store for at least some of the Ctca sites

I think PPS exemption only applies within 35 miles of the main campus.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

I think PPS exemption only applies within 35 miles of the main campus.

If it's a geographic restriction, I imagine several CTCA satellites will open within that boundary in the immediate future.

Channeling my inner marketing executive, I could see 1-2 satellites built for each major disease site in a small geographic footprint, marketed as "centers of excellence in GU malignancies" or whatnot.

 

[jondunn]

marketed as "centers of excellence in GU malignancies" or whatnot.

always surpised this doesnt happen more often. especialy for centers where it would actually make sense, like a head and neck focused PP

 

[RickyScott]

heard that radonc salaries at COH are awful.

 

[RO28]

Kinda like ctca for those of us around the country near one of their centers...a match made in heaven?

so the thing is, as much as we roll our eyes, the experience of being picked up in a limo or a fancy car REALLY stick with the patient and many times lead them to believe they are getting state of the art/top quality care. You can have an excellent doctor who is up to date and really knows what they are doing, but if that doctor works in a dated office with decor that looks like it is from the 1980s patients will go elsewhere if they can.

 

[evilbooyaa]

heard that radonc salaries at COH are awful.

This is not true. COH Salaries are likely better than 75% of academic practices based on second-hand information

Buying ALL of CTCA for $390 mil is the merger/acquisition steal of the century. City of Hope continues to make big expansion moves.

 

[RickyScott]

This is not true. COH Salaries are likely better than 75% of academic practices based on second-hand information

Buying ALL of CTCA for $390 mil is the merger/acquisition steal of the century. City of Hope continues to make big expansion moves.

i had a very low offer many years ago.

 

[maxxor]

This is not true. COH Salaries are likely better than 75% of academic practices based on second-hand information

Buying ALL of CTCA for $390 mil is the merger/acquisition steal of the century. City of Hope continues to make big expansion moves.

Does that price not seem high to you? Temple bought the PHL CTCA for 12 million. Maybe the other campuses are bigger.

 

[RickyScott]

BTW CTCA was known for going after patient's estates for unpaid medical bills. Would assume that COH would stop that.

 

[jondunn]

City of Hope continues to make big expansion moves.

not a good thing IMO

 

[RickyScott]

not a good thing IMO

Probably a smart business move, but coh has a non profit mission.

 

[jondunn]

Probably a smart business move, but coh has a non profit mission.

So does MDACC!

 

[RickyScott]

So does MDACC!

That’s my point. Non profit has become totally meaningless.

 

[OTN]

That’s my point. Non profit has become totally meaningless.

Always has been.astronautmeme.

Economic data has always shown that both for-profit and not-for-profit healthcare entities work to maximize their operating revenue in identical ways. Only difference is that in for-profit systems the profit is transferred to shareholders, while in not-for-profit systems profit is kept within the institution.

 

[evilbooyaa]

not a good thing IMO

I was simply stating a fact. I am not a fan of ANY large conglomerate continue to grow as it does.

Does that price not seem high to you? Temple bought the PHL CTCA for 12 million. Maybe the other campuses are bigger.

Not sure, but I feel like their operating budget/revenue capabilities is much higher.

 

[seper]

Does that price not seem high to you? Temple bought the PHL CTCA for 12 million. Maybe the other campuses are bigger.

That's probably just NE Philly real estate. Cute little medical building. COH is buying the whole operation

 

[medgator]

COH trying to force its way into MA and Medicaid/HMO plans.

California cancer care isn't equitable; a new law might help

Low-income cancer patients in California often receive poorer care, but a new law aims to help.

calmatters.org

In my neck of the woods it's rare to see these plans be in network with our local PPS-exempt NCI center. I suspect it's a mutual decision, these plans don't want to carry high cost centers in their provider network and the NCI centers aren't happy with taking Medicare rates let alone potentially something lower than Medicare

 

[RickyScott]

States should also pass laws that Medicaid pts revcieve mandatory payment for protons. illegal imigrants as well.