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[mentos]

I think posters on this forum are trying to discourage you from going to CS, which is in demand right now. It’s the misery loves company mentality. The truth I learned is many people especially extended family or even family do not want one to succeed in life. Ignore the haters and control your life on your own terms.

I think most are telling him to try pharmacy first since he went thru all the trouble of getting a pharmD. He won't even apply to a retail job. What was the point of getting a pharmD then?

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[Hedgehog32]

Sorry that happened to you despite working hard in school - out of curiosity, did you apply to residency as well? If you did and didn't match, what would be your self-diagnosis of what went wrong? Also what state are you in?

Regarding desirable jobs, retail is 70% of pharmacy and hospital/other is the rest (30%). I am definitely saying that finance and CS students need to be just as competitive to get the best jobs coming out of school - I know a bit more about the business side of things, but having hundreds of applicants to a job is very much a normal thing at some of the top consulting firms and banks, having gone through the recruiting process myself.

Coming out of my decent state school in the NY metro area - when I graduated (~5 years ago), you could probably count on two hands (<10) the number of people accepted into a front office position at a top bank/consulting firm even though there are hundreds of business graduates every year -- these are the "top jobs" (e.g. FAANGs of business majors)

SDN is a bit insular and extremely negative on the future prospects on pharmacy (maybe a little too much IMO, but debatable -- accept your point that times have changed since I graduated) and definitely a bit too much "grass is greener" mentality as it relates to other fields. Trying to bring some balance in that whatever you decide to pursue after leaving pharmacy, you really need to go the extra mile since nothing is a slam dunk these days.

Also this conversation would be much different if you were deciding whether or not to start in pharmacy, but you have 4 years sunk cost already

@Rx1992 - out of curiosity, what do you do?

I think that the analogy comparing the most desirable CS and finance industry jobs to pharmacy jobs isn't really valid for one primary reason: while I don't doubt that only the top-tier graduates of CS and finance programs get jobs with FAANG and the top finance corporations, at the same time, the less-than-top-tier graduates in those fields are still able to get jobs at smaller tech and finance companies outside of large desirable metropolitan cities. On the other hand, in pharmacy, if someone didn't complete a residency, work as an intern for a retail chain, have very strong connections, or simply get lucky, their only option at getting a job is most likely going to be with either CVS or Walgreens in an extremely rural area.

In other words, with pharmacy, most new grads who didn't match with a residency program or get chain retail experience are having to move to the middle of nowhere to work for one of the two retail chains that are widely considered to be the worst employers in the pharmacy business. I think your analogy would be more accurate if all but the top 5-10% of CS & finance grads were having to take jobs that required living in remote areas and working for whichever companies are considered to be the bottom-of-the-barrel in the tech and finance industries.

@Rx1992 Summarized the dilemma in one of his posts in this thread - almost all hospitals and chains (aside from their extremely rural locations) have instituted very strict entry-level requirements in recent years. For hospitals, this is either at least several years of experience or residency training, although some hospitals are now refusing to hire even experienced pharmacists who didn't complete residencies. For retail chains (again, aside from the rural locations), the entry-level requirement is either one year of chain pharmacist work experience or paid pharmacy intern work experience. The DMs for my region for both CVS and Walgreens told me that I wouldn't be eligible for any staff/floater pharmacist positions in their district since I don't have formal retail work experience. The CVS DM even offered me a job at the end of my P3 year so that I could get the requisite year of experience to qualify to work for CVS as a pharmacist (I turned it down because I had/have no interest in working retail).

BTW, to answer your questions, I live in the southeast and decided to apply to residency programs at the last minute. Interviewed at 2 programs, didn't match. IMO, the reason I didn't match is because my application simply wasn't as competitive as many of the other applicants' (e.g., they had research experience and just generally more impressive and extensive experiences to talk about than I had).

 

[Hedgehog32]

Yeah but even though it’s a sunk cost, don’t keep throwing good money and time after bad (a poor investment) just because you already wasted so much (sunk cost fallacy). Cut your losses. Invest elsewhere.

Exactly - after talking to a few acquaintances who are pharmacists, even my mom point-blank asked me the other day, "Well, do you think it's worth pouring anymore money into pharmacy if you still wouldn't even qualify for a job?"

 

[Hedgehog32]

I think most are telling him to try pharmacy first since he went thru all the trouble of getting a pharmD. He won't even apply to a retail job. What was the point of getting a pharmD then?

My goal was to get a basic hospital staffing position (flexible on location). During the time that passed between when I started pharmacy school and now, the job market became so saturated that even rural hospitals are (for the most part) requiring either extensive pharmacist-level work experience or residency training. In fact, I just had a conversation the other day with an academic hospital DOP who told me that applications from retail pharmacists and experienced but non-residency-trained hospital pharmacists are thrown straight into the trash, even for 7 on/7 off nightshift positions. She simply told me the market justifies having such cutthroat hiring standards.

Here's the thing about applying for retail jobs. Even if I wanted a retail job, I'd still be looking at having to move to a rural state just to qualify for a job with CVS or Walgreens. I could see doing this for an inpatient hospital position, but who wants to move to an area they'd hate living in for a job they'd also hate working in?

IMO, the reason I can't seem to motivate myself to do what I described above is because alternative career pathways are available to me (I hope) which don't take very long (1.5 - 2 yrs max) to pursue. If CS wasn't available to me as an alternative career option to pursue that costs very little additional time/money, I'd probably be more receptive to sucking it up and moving to rural Wyoming for a CVS job or something. Otherwise, as things stand now, I think I'd honestly rather spend another year or two in school pursuing something else altogether.

 

[deleted562805]

I think most are telling him to try pharmacy first since he went thru all the trouble of getting a pharmD. He won't even apply to a retail job. What was the point of getting a pharmD then?

Lack of interest in a retail job in a rural area. And I don’t blame Hedgehog32.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Lack of interest in a retail job in a rural area. And I don’t blame Hedgehog32.

Of course, the most relevant question is, that really, truly our only realistic avenue to getting a job for those of us who neither completed residencies nor gained chain retail intern work experience?

 

[deleted562805]

Of course, the most relevant question is, that really, truly our only realistic avenue to getting a job for those of us who neither completed residencies nor gained chain retail intern work experience?

I think so. Considering the COVID-19 and now these riots, causing retail stores to close. Even biotech companies require a fellowship unless you know someone on the inside despite no experience. Same goes with these hospital jobs. You have to know someone

 

[Hedgehog32]

I think so. Considering the COVID-19 and now these riots, causing retail stores to close. Even biotech companies require a fellowship unless you know someone on the inside despite no experience. Same goes with these hospital jobs. You have to know someone

From what I've been told by various pharmacy professionals (including chain DMs), even before the coronavirus situation hit, it had already gotten to the point where chains were requiring experience for all pharmacist positions except for those in rural areas (from what I was told, it sounds like this has been the case since maybe mid-2018).

 

[deleted562805]

From what I've been told by various pharmacy professionals (including chain DMs), even before the coronavirus situation hit, it had already gotten to the point where chains were requiring experience for all pharmacist positions except for those in rural areas (from what I was told, it sounds like this has been the case since maybe mid-2018).

Hmm, i think you are right. Mid 2018 to beginning of 2019. 2018 was the last class of if you did not have retail experience, you can still float in metro areas

 

[Rphonthecome]

Hmm, i think you are right. Mid 2018 to the beginning of 2019. 2018 was the last class of if you did not have retail experience, you can still float in metro areas

even with years of experience interning some arent getting offered jobs

 

[Mambo#5]

even with years of experience interning some arent getting offered jobs

 

[Hedgehog32]

even with years of experience interning some arent getting offered jobs

I know of one fellow c/o 2020 graduate who was offered a job with Walgreens and another c/o 2020 graduate who was offered a job with CVS. Both of these people worked as interns for their respective employers when they were in pharmacy school. Otherwise, I don't know of anyone else locally (specifically in my southeastern city) who has gotten a job with either company as a new graduate who didn't work previously as an intern for one of the companies (not saying there aren't any others, just that nobody is aware of them). I was told that all Publix districts throughout the southeast had to fire all their interns, although I'm not sure if that's 100% true or not.

 

[Rphonthecome]

I know of one fellow c/o 2020 graduate who was offered a job with Walgreens and another c/o 2020 graduate who was offered a job with CVS. Both of these people worked as interns for their respective employers when they were in pharmacy school. Otherwise, I don't know of anyone else locally (specifically in my southeastern city) who has gotten a job with either company as a new graduate who didn't work previously as an intern for one of the companies (not saying there aren't any others, just that nobody is aware of them). I was told that all Publix districts throughout the southeast had to fire all their interns, although I'm not sure if that's 100% true or not.

its crazy times. also hearing Walgreens will close many stores, no light at the end of the tunnel

 

[Chrish]

I have a feeling Walgreens will be bought eventually by other mega-Corp: amazon or Berkshire etc.

PBM is the future of healthcare, not Pharmacy. Cvs hit a master stroke by buying Atena and Caremark.

 

[Hedgehog32]

its crazy times. also hearing Walgreens will close many stores, no light at the end of the tunnel

I heard a rumor a few weeks back that Walgreens was going to fire around 700 pharmacists. Do you know if that's still rumored to happen?

 

[nickw2401]

Hospital pharmacist salaries will go down for sure. They lost so much money from having elective surgeries canceled. The only reason hospital pharmacist salaries were high in the first place was to keep them from quitting and going to retail. Before the retail boom, hospital pharmacists did not make much.

I graduated in 2017 and work as a staff pharmacist at a fairly large hospital with multiple nursing homes in a mid-sized city in VA. Im salaried but my pay essentially works out to be just over $57 and hour. I work hours that most people cant due to family or simply wont work. Always 40 hours a week for 2nd shift and 72 hours 7 on 7 off for 3rd shift.

 

[mentos]

I graduated in 2017 and work as a staff pharmacist at a fairly large hospital with multiple nursing homes in a mid-sized city in VA. Im salaried but my pay essentially works out to be just over $57 and hour. I work hours that most people cant due to family or simply wont work. Always 40 hours a week for 2nd shift and 72 hours 7 on 7 off for 3rd shift.

How is your hospital budget this year? The hospital where my wife works has lost millions due to covid-19.

 

[Sine Cura]

I have a feeling Walgreens will be bought eventually by other mega-Corp: amazon or Berkshire etc.

PBM is the future of healthcare, not Pharmacy. Cvs hit a master stroke by buying Atena and Caremark.

PBMs being the future of anything shows there is no future. Classic American rent-seeking

 

[nickw2401]

How is your hospital budget this year? The hospital where my wife works has lost millions due to covid-19.

I think that goes for all hospitals. The main hospital where I work is just over 400 beds with 3 additional smaller hospitals in the region. As of Friday we were back up to 95% capacity. Normally at 99-105% pre-corona.

 

[DH1987]

I paid my student loan debts off, and am now teaching myself programming on my free time. F*** going back to school.

 

[Rphonthecome]

What’s corny ? You talking about yourself