The Age of Anti-Ambition

[coffeebythelake]

Having lived in several countries over the years I think on average Americans are amongst some of the hardest working people in the developed world, which is a shame because corporations profit massively off labor and protections for workers is very weak.

I think it is also important to point out the difference between being ambitious and being industrious.

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[GassYous]

Having lived in several countries over the years I think on average Americans are amongst some of the hardest working people in the developed world, which is a shame because corporations profit massively off labor and protections for workers is very weak.

I think it is also important to point out the difference between being ambitious and being industrious.

People in europe take like 2 hour lunches
Meanwhile I'm sneaking in bites between cases

 

[Mman]

Yes, peanuts for someone looking to spend $300k per year in retirement, but not peanuts to the average white collar management type looking retire at age 55 instead of 65.

backdoor Roth only applies to married couples making >$200K per year. Joe Blow in middle management can still contribute directly to a Roth so eliminating backdoor conversions does not apply to them.

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

First off, I am a total millennial. My wife and I are both physicians in training (she’s starting fellowship and I’m just finishing fellowship). In my humble opinion, we are fortunate have come to realize that we live incredibly well on our training salaries combined (~120k/yr). No kids yet or house yet so obviously that’ll change some things. But with our salaries as trainees we have saved some for retirement, saved for home down payment, and have extra for a vacation every once in a while and eating out. We are going for PSLF and this student loans pause has helped a lot too. We live within our means. Our life is rosy even if we are working 60+ hours/week. Like I said, we are so lucky to be happy with what we have now, I can only imagine how much different it’ll be when our salaries triple as attendings.

With that all said, I believe my generation is seeing that the “previous” generation worked super hard for the $ but left happiness out of the equation. What’s that study of something like if you make more than $70k that more money doesn’t equate to more happiness? I see it in some of family members who are doctor business owners who have become very wealthy but still work like nuts. Millennials are certainly the generation of realizing happiness over money. I don’t think this equates to being lazy. It’s prioritizing what’s truly important.

So yeah, that probably means less desire for my generation of doctors to start a business, and instead become warm bodies for a paycheck. It does frustrate me seeing money made off our backs. However at the same time, millennials are like “Okay give me my 100-300k job, you can keep yours as long we just get along”. At this point I don’t care if the corporations make their money as long as I get mine and it’s stable. My generation is choosing happiness, realizing they can live on less, etc. I believe large part to this pandemic where many millennials are working from home. They are enjoying free time, family, friends, not needing to go on the next vacation, self improvement, doing new hobbies. I see it all around me.

What I see instead in this Gen Z generation is that they are not only wanting the happiness realization of millennials but also a piece of the pie as well! That’s why there is all this talk about injustice, equality, burn down the CEOs, minimum wagers need a share of the company, etc.

 

[anbuitachi]

Uhhh nah man, your lazy assertion is still unsupported.

This entire discussion has been solely about work ethic as it pertains to the labor force, and indeed in your post you even referenced "..cut back and work fewer hours and focus on life" which tells us you were on the same page that this discussion is about labor.

But then you try to throw out some random unrelated study about literal exercise to support your laziness claim? Nope. Try again.

Well there's a difference between unsupported and you not liking the support 😉

 

[anbuitachi]

Having lived in several countries over the years I think on average Americans are amongst some of the hardest working people in the developed world, which is a shame because corporations profit massively off labor and protections for workers is very weak.

I think it is also important to point out the difference between being ambitious and being industrious.

I agree. My wife works with European companies and they take a lot of breaks. She says it's frustrating sometimes bc they are like on vacation a LOT. Meanwhile she works with asian companies too and they work a LOT. So it depends on what part of the world it is. The data supports that as well. Most of the big asian countries work more than USA while EU works less. The Asian companies would schedule meetings at like our 9am (9pm over there)

Funny because of the slower speed European companies work at and higher cost, her company is switching to more asian companies to do the work

 

[GravelRider]

I agree. My wife works with European companies and they take a lot of breaks. She says it's frustrating sometimes bc they are like on vacation a LOT. Meanwhile she works with asian companies too and they work a LOT. So it depends on what part of the world it is. The data supports that as well. Most of the big asian countries work more than USA while EU works less. The Asian companies would schedule meetings at like our 9am (9pm over there)

Funny because of the slower speed European companies work at and higher cost, her company is switching to more asian companies to do the work

Doesn’t the Japanese language have a word just for “death by overworking?” Sounds fun.

 

[anbuitachi]

Doesn’t the Japanese language have a word just for “death by overworking?” Sounds fun.

Sure but it's not just Japan that's working more than us

 

[anbuitachi]

Sure but it's not just Japan that's working more than us

Pretty much all of asian work more than us. Mexico is the other big country that works a lot. Africa mostly dataless though I'm willing to bet they work a lot.

 

[vector2]

Well there's a difference between unsupported and you not liking the support 😉

What you posted about exercise is totally irrelevant and unrelated to the question of whether Americans are "lazy" wrt the job market and employment.

Imagine if I posted a study that shows Americans work twice as hard on average as the rest of the world to keep their lawncare and landscaping in order, and then tried to use that study as evidence that Americans aren't lazy vis a vis the labor force. That's the kind of category error of you're making by posting "support" which is neither here nor there to the question at hand.

 

[coffeebythelake]

Doesn’t the Japanese language have a word just for “death by overworking?” Sounds fun.

Karoshi

 

[vector2]

As far as the facts go, the US is the 6th most productive country in the world in GDP / hr worked and we also work the most hours per week of the top 10

Most Productive Countries 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[coffeebythelake]

As far as the facts go, the US is the 6th most productive country in the world in GDP / hr worked and we also work the most hours per week of the top 10

Most Productive Countries 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

Not sure if GDP per capita would be considered a good surrogate measure of hard working or ambition though. That would be like saying an anesthesiologist is less hard working jn a 3rd world country or even some western european ciuntries because they made less money than us.

I think it is clear that the economic policies and government regulations make a huge impact on earnings, productivity, and opportunities. That ij of itself is related to but not truly what we are tryijg to gauge. But if i were to say what would be the surrogate meaaure that best deomstrate industriousness and ambitiousness it could be something like a combination of hours worked, education attainment, and innovation (making new businesses, etc). To be ambitious means to take some risks which is rewarded when it is successful

 

[vector2]

Not sure if GDP per capita would be considered a good surrogate measure of hard working or ambition though. That would be like saying an anesthesiologist is less hard working jn a 3rd world country or even some western european ciuntries because they made less money than us.

I think it is clear that the economic policies and government regulations make a huge impact on earnings, productivity, and opportunities. That ij of itself is related to but not truly what we are tryijg to gauge. But if i were to say what would be the surrogate meaaure that best deomstrate industriousness and ambitiousness it could be something like a combination of hours worked, education attainment, and innovation (making new businesses, etc)

The measure in that link is GDP per hour worked btw, but I think your point still stands in that the comparison has to be made between other first world OECD countries and us. Makes no sense to compare how hard we work or our lifestyles to the average person in Bangladesh.

That being said, we still work the most hours per week out of the OECD countries, and our unemployment rate is 4%. Taking into account that workforce participation rate has dropped a bit during the pandemic, there's still no basis for a claim that Americans are generally "lazy" when it comes to the labor market.

 

[anbuitachi]

What you posted about exercise is totally irrelevant and unrelated to the question of whether Americans are "lazy" wrt the job market and employment.

Imagine if I posted a study that shows Americans work twice as hard on average as the rest of the world to keep their lawncare and landscaping in order, and then tried to use that study as evidence that Americans aren't lazy vis a vis the labor force. That's the kind of category error of you're making by posting "support" which is neither here nor there to the question at hand.

i mean theres very little direct data if thats what you are looking for. that goes for many things in the world. doesnt mean the statement is unsupported. sure its not DIRECTLY supported but you can make connections. whether you agree with the connection or not is your opinion. im willing to bet theres a correlation between how much you exercise when you work 40 hrs a week, vs how lazy you are. if you disagree, thats fine.

you can go down the rabbit hole of your logic for pretty much anything if you are constantly looking for direct support.

 

[anbuitachi]

As far as the facts go, the US is the 6th most productive country in the world in GDP / hr worked and we also work the most hours per week of the top 10

Most Productive Countries 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

so basically we have a lot of nice machines, and a rich government, but on a per capita basis, its not as nice and fancy as some of the smaller rich countries. which make sense

your data is pretty much the same as some of the links i provided before. USA ranks high if you compare to some other rich european countries, which honestly makes sense and i dont see changing anytime soon. we are a far more country of immigrants looking to work hard to have a good life in USA than any european country. we are also far more capitalistic IMO thus driving companies to work employees hard

i always thought GDP is pretty useless comparing random countries. its useful comparing your own country from year to year , but pointless to compare gdp or gdp/capita of bangladesh vs usa

 

[vector2]

i mean theres very little direct data if thats what you are looking for. that goes for many things in the world. doesnt mean the statement is unsupported. sure its not DIRECTLY supported but you can make connections.

Um yeah, this was my point precisely in my responses to you is that you are taking some assumptions or data in one area and then overgeneralizing them to make a claim somewhere else. If you want to use your anecdotes and this other data about exercise to make a claim about Americans fitting some vague definition of laziness, that's your prerogative, but as I said, there is no empiric data that Americans are lazier than their economic peers when it comes to the labor market (and if anything we skew to the other end)

you can go down the rabbit hole of your logic for pretty much anything if you are constantly looking for direct support.

What kind of statement is this? There is evidence that directly supports or refutes one's assertions, evidence that indirectly supports or refutes one's assertions, and evidence which is totally unrelated to one's assertions. You mostly engaged in the latter.

 

[vector2]

i always thought GDP is pretty useless comparing random countries. its useful comparing your own country from year to year , but pointless to compare gdp or gdp/capita of bangladesh vs usa

Again, the measure in the link I posted detailed GDP per hour worked and total number of hours worked per week. Which are very relevant measures of "laziness" in the labor market when comparing like against like among similar countries.

 

[anbuitachi]

Um yeah, this was my point precisely in my responses to you is that you are taking some assumptions or data in one area and then overgeneralizing them to make a claim somewhere else. If you want to use your anecdotes and this other data about exercise to make a claim about Americans fitting some vague definition of laziness, that's your prerogative, but as I said, there is no empiric data that Americans are lazier than their economic peers when it comes to the labor market (and if anything we skew to the other end)

What kind of statement is this? There is evidence that directly supports or refutes one's assertions, evidence that indirectly supports or refutes one's assertions, and evidence which is totally unrelated to one's assertions. You mostly engaged in the latter.

i meant its about how directly you want it to support. just like the gdp post you made, is also indirectly related, not direct. in fact most of the research we do is correlation, so they are all indirect supports. therefore there are very few direct supports in population science

 

[anbuitachi]

Again, the measure in the link I posted detailed GDP per hour worked and total number of hours worked per week. Which are very relevant measures of "laziness" in the labor market when comparing like against like among similar countries.

you mean indirectly relevant

 

[vector2]

i meant its about how directly you want it to support. just like the gdp post you made, is also indirectly related, not direct. in fact most of the research we do is correlation, so they are all indirect supports. therefore there are very few direct supports in population science

Depends on how you want to define "laziness" as it pertains to the work, the labor market, and employment. Tell me, what's a more direct measure of laziness in labor than how many hours a week one works? You just tried use a study about hours of exercise per week...

I'd agree though that it's a nebulously defined word here and I personally would refrain from making strong assertions one way or another without stricter definitions. However you were the one who originally said "im not saying we are lazy [workers]. im saying most of america is lazy. " Which remains a grossly unsupported opinion based on no meaningful evidence.

 

[anbuitachi]

Depends on how you want to define "laziness" as it pertains to the work, the labor market, and employment. Tell me, what's a more direct measure of laziness in labor than how many hours a week one works? You just tried use a study about hours of exercise per week...

I'd agree though that it's a nebulously defined word here and I personally would refrain from making strong assertions one way or another without stricter definitions. However you were the one who originally said "im not saying we are lazy [workers]. im saying most of america is lazy. " Which remains a grossly unsupported opinion based on no meaningful evidence.

i agree with you. however i also mentioned hours worked in one of my posts. i think i said USA ranks about average in # of hours worked. at like avg of 37 hrs a week or something like that.

but even that is just part of the picture. agree with how you define that. when i first came to this country, school was about just as long as where i came from in terms of HOURS, but the time being used is super inefficient. i still believe the same thing 30 years later, with work and everything. people here may work average # of hours, but efficiency at work is garbage (still better than Europe i guess) and yes its a Personal opinion. a lot of breaks, chatting, using phone for non work purposes, etc.

in the end, i think most people are the "same" at birth. how they turn out is a combination of a lot of factors, and i guess we just have to make the best of it

 

[vector2]

. i still believe the same thing 30 years later, with work and everything. people here may work average # of hours, but efficiency at work is garbage (still better than Europe i guess) and yes its a Personal opinion. a lot of breaks, chatting, using phone for non work purposes, etc.

Efficiency at work is garbage compared to whom? We're very high in GDP per hour worked which is an indication that Americans on average aren't particularly inefficient during actual work hours.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think you're letting your personal anecdotes cloud your evaluation of the entire US labor force, which is really a very diverse and not monolithic entity.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Millennial here. In my previous career, I entered the work force ready to put my nose to the grindstone. After all, that was the recipe for success according to our parents. After 5 years of hard work, picking up extra shifts, working more holidays, taking call, and just generally being one of the most productive employees…I was making the same as the other two people who were in orientation with me. Those two were straight up going through the motions. One even hid in the bathroom for hours each shift to avoid work.

I decided to leave for a job paying slightly more with less of a workload since I was now shouldering more than everyone else despite being the lowest paid. Management begged me to stay. Said they’d do anything to keep me; except pay more. I was fed up and walked.

Literally every millennial has a story like this. They’re not really lazy, they’re just apathetic. Work ethic just isn’t rewarded in like 99% of jobs. So no one cares.

As a bonus, that first job had to replace me with three people who were all smart enough to never work that hard lol.

 

[Zekchar]

I agree. My wife works with European companies and they take a lot of breaks. She says it's frustrating sometimes bc they are like on vacation a LOT. Meanwhile she works with asian companies too and they work a LOT. So it depends on what part of the world it is. The data supports that as well. Most of the big asian countries work more than USA while EU works less. The Asian companies would schedule meetings at like our 9am (9pm over there)

Funny because of the slower speed European companies work at and higher cost, her company is switching to more asian companies to do the work

The 20,000 foot view is that Europe is in decline. There is simply no innovation, discovery, or progress coming out of Europe. Merkel was lamenting that Apple was worth more than all German companies combined. All the new ideas, inventions, tech, and otherwise breakthroughs are all coming out of China and the US.

Then there's the up close and personal view of "I do not care." My only goal is to maximize the earnings, lifestyle, and happiness for my husband and kids. The US's status as lead innovator is irrelevant to me, compared to my paycheck being deposited every 2 weeks, the bills being paid, and my vacations happening every 4 months. It's on the government and society to align the personal and societal goals through incentives. My only goal is to "get mines."

 

[nimbus]

a lot of breaks, chatting, using phone for non work purposes, etc.

What else am I gonna do during a 4hr spine case? Make the BP go up and down for no reason??

 

[nimbus]

Millennial here. In my previous career, I entered the work force ready to put my nose to the grindstone. After all, that was the recipe for success according to our parents. After 5 years of hard work, picking up extra shifts, working more holidays, taking call, and just generally being one of the most productive employees…I was making the same as the other two people who were in orientation with me. Those two were straight up going through the motions. One even hid in the bathroom for hours each shift to avoid work.

I decided to leave for a job paying slightly more with less of a workload since I was now shouldering more than everyone else despite being the lowest paid. Management begged me to stay. Said they’d do anything to keep me; except pay more. I was fed up and walked.

Literally every millennial has a story like this. They’re not really lazy, they’re just apathetic. Work ethic just isn’t rewarded in like 99% of jobs. So no one cares.

As a bonus, that first job had to replace me with three people who were all smart enough to never work that hard lol.

That’s why it’s good to have purely productivity based compensation. More shifts/hours/holidays/intensity/units=more pay. Millenials are not lazy at all with the right incentives. I’ve seen millenials work like dogs. So much so that my group has implemented rules against over working and getting adequate rest.

 

[anbuitachi]

Efficiency at work is garbage compared to whom? We're very high in GDP per hour worked which is an indication that Americans on average aren't particularly inefficient during actual work hours.

View attachment 350462

Maybe I'm wrong but I think you're letting your personal anecdotes cloud your evaluation of the entire US labor force, which is really a very diverse and not monolithic entity.

i think i said it before that i dont think its a useful measure of efficiency per capita.

 

[anbuitachi]

What else am I gonna do during a 4hr spine case? Make the BP go up and down for no reason??

you are still listening to the beeps hopefully. therefore working hard and non stop!

 

[amyl]

I know it’s anecdotal but will add my personal experience with my millennial step kid. 30, not happy with what she can afford in apartment, and my husband asks me if we can help out. We already pay student loans and cell phone bill. Offered to set her up with a friend who would give her a higher paying job… rep w Medtronic or Stryker, etc. nice $ and a car allowance. She said no… she makes too much money to do nothing at her current job.
We also have an srna now that lies about where she is and ducks out of work whenever she can… a ton of excuses at the ready.
There have always been hard workers and always been lazy people. Sorry but the percentage seems to have shifted towards laziness in the younger generation. That’s my observation.

 

[anbuitachi]

Millennial here. In my previous career, I entered the work force ready to put my nose to the grindstone. After all, that was the recipe for success according to our parents. After 5 years of hard work, picking up extra shifts, working more holidays, taking call, and just generally being one of the most productive employees…I was making the same as the other two people who were in orientation with me. Those two were straight up going through the motions. One even hid in the bathroom for hours each shift to avoid work.

I decided to leave for a job paying slightly more with less of a workload since I was now shouldering more than everyone else despite being the lowest paid. Management begged me to stay. Said they’d do anything to keep me; except pay more. I was fed up and walked.

Literally every millennial has a story like this. They’re not really lazy, they’re just apathetic. Work ethic just isn’t rewarded in like 99% of jobs. So no one cares.

As a bonus, that first job had to replace me with three people who were all smart enough to never work that hard lol.

Literally every millennial has a story like this

the two with you in orientations were older?

 

[anbuitachi]

The 20,000 foot view is that Europe is in decline. There is simply no innovation, discovery, or progress coming out of Europe. Merkel was lamenting that Apple was worth more than all German companies combined. All the new ideas, inventions, tech, and otherwise breakthroughs are all coming out of China and the US.

Then there's the up close and personal view of "I do not care." My only goal is to maximize the earnings, lifestyle, and happiness for my husband and kids. The US's status as lead innovator is irrelevant to me, compared to my paycheck being deposited every 2 weeks, the bills being paid, and my vacations happening every 4 months. It's on the government and society to align the personal and societal goals through incentives. My only goal is to "get mines."

dont really need to care since change will take decades. it helps that although us is in decline its still #1 in many areas and is europes ally.

 

[Agast]

I know it’s anecdotal but will add my personal experience with my millennial step kid... Sorry but the percentage seems to have shifted towards laziness in the younger generation. That’s my observation.

Is it a generational problem or is it a problem with the way that kid was raised?

Where does work ethic come from?

 

[CHARLESTONMMM]

I know it’s anecdotal but will add my personal experience with my millennial step kid. 30, not happy with what she can afford in apartment, and my husband asks me if we can help out. We already pay student loans and cell phone bill. Offered to set her up with a friend who would give her a higher paying job… rep w Medtronic or Stryker, etc. nice $ and a car allowance. She said no… she makes too much money to do nothing at her current job.
We also have an srna now that lies about where she is and ducks out of work whenever she can… a ton of excuses at the ready.
There have always been hard workers and always been lazy people. Sorry but the percentage seems to have shifted towards laziness in the younger generation. That’s my observation.

If she makes too much money at her current job then why are you paying her student loans and cell phone. Sounds like she is living the dream.

 

[coffeebythelake]

I know it’s anecdotal but will add my personal experience with my millennial step kid. 30, not happy with what she can afford in apartment, and my husband asks me if we can help out. We already pay student loans and cell phone bill. Offered to set her up with a friend who would give her a higher paying job… rep w Medtronic or Stryker, etc. nice $ and a car allowance. She said no… she makes too much money to do nothing at her current job.
We also have an srna now that lies about where she is and ducks out of work whenever she can… a ton of excuses at the ready.
There have always been hard workers and always been lazy people. Sorry but the percentage seems to have shifted towards laziness in the younger generation. That’s my observation.

I think for some people it can be hard to be optimistic when they see how much unfairness exists in our system. This is only magnified by social media. The baby boomer generation has created a lot of economic problems that they kick the can down the road.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Literally every millennial has a story like this

the two with you in orientations were older?

Same ages. They just learned their lesson about the pointlessness of hard work well before me.

 

[GassYous]

I know it’s anecdotal but will add my personal experience with my millennial step kid. 30, not happy with what she can afford in apartment, and my husband asks me if we can help out. We already pay student loans and cell phone bill. Offered to set her up with a friend who would give her a higher paying job… rep w Medtronic or Stryker, etc. nice $ and a car allowance. She said no… she makes too much money to do nothing at her current job.
We also have an srna now that lies about where she is and ducks out of work whenever she can… a ton of excuses at the ready.
There have always been hard workers and always been lazy people. Sorry but the percentage seems to have shifted towards laziness in the younger generation. That’s my observation.

For some reason I didn't think you were much above 40

Why are you paying her loans and cell phone bill? If she's not happy with her apartment, time to start working overtime.

 

[DrZzZz]

Is it a generational problem or is it a problem with the way that kid was raised?

Where does work ethic come from?

Yea, I can't wrap my head around paying for my 30 year old child's cell phone bill (and maybe loans as well).

 

[GravelRider]

I know it’s anecdotal but will add my personal experience with my millennial step kid. 30, not happy with what she can afford in apartment, and my husband asks me if we can help out. We already pay student loans and cell phone bill. Offered to set her up with a friend who would give her a higher paying job… rep w Medtronic or Stryker, etc. nice $ and a car allowance. She said no… she makes too much money to do nothing at her current job.
We also have an srna now that lies about where she is and ducks out of work whenever she can… a ton of excuses at the ready.
There have always been hard workers and always been lazy people. Sorry but the percentage seems to have shifted towards laziness in the younger generation. That’s my observation.

Your parents’ generation said that about you too.

 

[coffeebythelake]

For some reason I didn't think you were much above 40

Why are you paying her loans and cell phone bill? If she's not happy with her apartment, time to start working overtime.

She did say her *step* kid.

 

[anbuitachi]

i do agree its partially due to conditions. working my face off and not really being able to afford a decent house is defeating

 

[Hoya11]

i do agree its partially due to conditions. working my face off and not really being able to afford a decent house is defeating

but how did they get to that position? where they have to be hooked up with a drug rep job at 30?

why didnt they have a plan like you and me, to go into a field that they researched with good income and good job security?

of course if you are depending on the boss noticing your exra hard work and your extra smiles at your retail or entry level job, you may not get promoted to executive like in the movies, real life doesnt work like that. you dont depened on someone else to notice you and advance you, you come out with a degree that is in demand and jobs that are dying to have you..

 

[anbuitachi]

but what did they get to that position? where they have to be hooked up with a drug rep job at 30?

why didnt they have a plan like you and me, to go into a field that they researched with good income and good job security?

of course if you are depending on the boss noticing your exra hard work and your extra smiles at your retail or entry level job, you may not get promoted to executive like in the movies, real life doesnt work like that. you dont depened on someone else to notice you and advance you, you come out with a degree that is in demand and jobs that are dying to have you..

well to be fair, i think i made the wrong career choice

 

[IMGASMD]

well to be fair, i think i made the wrong career choice

I think you just need a new job….. that would solve most of your problem…

 

[GravelRider]

but how did they get to that position? where they have to be hooked up with a drug rep job at 30?

why didnt they have a plan like you and me, to go into a field that they researched with good income and good job security?

of course if you are depending on the boss noticing your exra hard work and your extra smiles at your retail or entry level job, you may not get promoted to executive like in the movies, real life doesnt work like that. you dont depened on someone else to notice you and advance you, you come out with a degree that is in demand and jobs that are dying to have you..

Meanwhile previous generations didn’t even need a “useful” degree to get a well-paying job that provided a nice middle class lifestyle, the ability to buy a house, and a pension for retirement. Most of the baby boomer generation fell face first in the ability to build wealth with minimal effort.

And isn’t it the old saying of “it’s not what you know, but who you know that matters for success?” Getting hooked up with a good job is definitely more reliable that choosing a good degree when you’re 18.

 

[pgg]

well to be fair, i think i made the wrong career choice

No, you just chose the wrong city to live in.


One of the extraordinary things about life is the sort of places it's
prepared to put up with living. Anywhere it can get some kind of a
grip, whether it's the intoxicating seas of Santraginus V, where the
fish never seem to care whatever the heck kind of direction they swim
in, the fire storms of Frastra where, they say, life begins at 40,000
degrees, or just burrowing around in the lower intestine of a rat for
the sheer unadulterated hell of it, life will always find a way of
hanging on in somewhere.

It will even live in New York, though it's hard to know why. In the
winter time the temperature falls well below the legal minimum, or
rather it would do if anybody had the common sense to set a legal
minimum. The last time anybody made a list of the top hundred
character attributes of New Yorkers, common sense snuck in at
number 79.

In the summer it's too darn hot. It's one thing to be the sort of life
form that thrives on heat and finds, as the Frastrans do, that the
temperature range between 40,000 and 40,004 is very equable, but
it's quite another to be the sort of animal that has to wrap itself up in
lots of other animals at one point in your planet's orbit, and then find,
half an orbit later, that your skin's bubbling.

Spring is over-rated. A lot of the inhabitants of New York will honk
on mightily about the pleasures of spring, but if they actually knew
the first thing about the pleasures of spring they would know of at
least five thousand nine hundred and eighty-three better places to
spend it than New York, and that's just on the same latitude.

Fall, though, is the worst. Few things are worse than fall in New
York. Some of the things that live in the lower intestines of rats would
disagree, but most of the things that live in the lower intestines of
rats are highly disagreeable anyway, so their opinion can and should
be discounted. When it's fall in New York, the air smells as if
someone's been frying goats in it, and if you are keen to breathe, the
best plan is to open a window and stick your head in a building.

@anbuitachi loved New York. He kept on telling himself this
over and over again. The Upper West Side. Yeah. Mid Town. Hey,
great retail. SoHo. The East Village. Clothes. Books. Sushi. Italian. Delis.
Yo.

 

[amyl]

STEP kid…. I married into this situation and existing arrangements. My husband is older than me and started early- thanks for thinking I’m 40 ;-) I’m not too far past but too young to have a 30 year old. Thank god!
I agree with you guys - they would all be more successful with a little more tough love but they’re not my loser kids to fix. They’re his - and it’s not worth my peace or happiness to bring it to his attention that he’s not doing them any favors or that they are lazy af.
As for whether my parents said the same about me…. Nope. They weren’t around to… I was the latch key kid of an absent father and mother with addiction issues. I was completely unsupervised- sometimes it doesn’t work out so well… in my case it did. Sometimes the strongest lesson is a negative example.

 

[vector2]

i think i said it before that i dont think its a useful measure of efficiency per capita.

Ok. Then tell me some objective measures which support your conjecture that Americans are less efficient per hour than other comparable countries.

 

[anbuitachi]

Ok. Then tell me some objective measures which support your conjecture that Americans are less efficient per hour than other comparable countries.

i dont have data for it. so its a personal opinion. at same time i also dont think gdp/capita is a good measure.

 

[narcotics999]

STEP kid…. I married into this situation and existing arrangements. My husband is older than me and started early- thanks for thinking I’m 40 ;-) I’m not too far past but too young to have a 30 year old. Thank god!
I agree with you guys - they would all be more successful with a little more tough love but they’re not my loser kids to fix. They’re his - and it’s not worth my peace or happiness to bring it to his attention that he’s not doing them any favors or that they are lazy af.
As for whether my parents said the same about me…. Nope. They weren’t around to… I was the latch key kid of an absent father and mother with addiction issues. I was completely unsupervised- sometimes it doesn’t work out so well… in my case it did. Sometimes the strongest lesson is a negative example.

Ok, the loser kids will always be your husband's liability, therefore yours too.