What year do you predict we will see serious consequences of saturation?

[sozetone]

I'm curious what everyones general time frame is as to when the country will wake up and recognize a serious problem with this profession? i see so many people who are like "your a pharmacist you can get a job anywhere!" i wanna punch them ....kidding...but not really. When will this come to a head and make headline news? i say 2025. The loan default rate will be HUGE, and jobs will be beyond scarce. Pharmacists will simply give up and do other things. Heck im about to do that now. 2025.

your vote?

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[mentos]

Probably never. We can't even convince prepharms that it's bad.

Don't underestimate the ignorance of the general public. The average person isn't aware of the oversupply of law graduates and it's been bad for over a dozen years.

 

[beautifulrobot]

Most of the country doesnt even know that pharmacists have a doctorate degree. Why would they ever know or care to know about problems with the pharmacist profession?

On the outpatient side, most folks perceive us as annoying gatekeepers; a hassle they have to deal with to get their meds. If they could just got their meds directly from their doctor's office, pick them up from a machine, or have them delivered to their door without ever having to interact with a pharmacist, most folks would prefer that.

People don't appreciate the complexity of the drug supply chain, and the challenges in getting the right drug with the right directions to the right patient. They just want their meds and they want them now and if they have any questions they'll just call the doctor or ask their friends or google.

The only thing the general public cares about is how they can get their meds quicker and cheaper. Pharmacists' wages or working conditions are not their concern unless it impacts one of those two things, and the solutions they will be looking for are not necessarily the ones that will benefit pharmacists.

Tl;dr: dont expect the general public to save us unless it somehow will benefit them as well. It's up to us to figure out a way to help our profession in a way that is also helpful to the public we serve.

 

[lord999]

Most of the country doesnt even know that pharmacists have a doctorate degree. Why would they ever know or care to know about problems with the pharmacist profession?

On the outpatient side, most folks perceive us as annoying gatekeepers; a hassle they have to deal with to get their meds. If they could just got their meds directly from their doctor's office, pick them up from a machine, or have them delivered to their door without ever having to interact with a pharmacist, most folks would prefer that.

People don't appreciate the complexity of the drug supply chain, and the challenges in getting the right drug with the right directions to the right patient. They just want their meds and they want them now and if they have any questions they'll just call the doctor or ask their friends or google.

The only thing the general public cares about is how they can get their meds quicker and cheaper. Pharmacists' wages or working conditions are not their concern unless it impacts one of those two things, and the solutions they will be looking for are not necessarily the ones that will benefit pharmacists.

Tl;dr: dont expect the general public to save us unless it somehow will benefit them as well. It's up to us to figure out a way to help our profession in a way that is also helpful to the public we serve.

You realize that the historic answer to that question is to change professions, right? Emigration is the only solution sometimes.

 

[beautifulrobot]

You realize that the historic answer to that question is to change professions, right? Emigration is the only solution sometimes.

Yep, sometimes leaving is the right choice. Not every relationship, job, or profession can be fixed.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

I'm curious what everyones general time frame is as to when the country will wake up and recognize a serious problem with this profession? i see so many people who are like "your a pharmacist you can get a job anywhere!" i wanna punch them ....kidding...but not really. When will this come to a head and make headline news? i say 2025. The loan default rate will be HUGE, and jobs will be beyond scarce. Pharmacists will simply give up and do other things. Heck im about to do that now. 2025.

your vote?

I predict we will hear about faculty cuts starting in 2020, and the first diploma school will close its doors in 2021.

 

[Timbo]

Don't get discouraged. Go to Reddit's pharmacy and prepharmacy subs and there are actually quite a few posts about pre-pharms reconsidering their choice due to concerns about saturation. Who knows how many lurkers get turned away from pharmacy thanks saturation posts. I wish we had a better way to publicize the terrible job market outside of online forums though.

 

[SevenPharmacyCalls]

My class had a "topics with the dean" and a member of the class brought up the saturation issue and suggestion to cut future class sizes to which they acknowledged that the field is saturated but that they won't cut the class size because it would hurt the budget... She mentioned that other pharmacy schools are cutting their class size due to a shortage of applicants which shows that less people are going into the field and it may be beginning to balance out and contract...

 

[Timbo]

My class had a "topics with the dean" and a member of the class brought up the saturation issue and suggestion to cut future class sizes to which they acknowledged that the field is saturated but that they won't cut the class size because it would hurt the budget... She mentioned that other pharmacy schools are cutting their class size due to a shortage of applicants which shows that less people are going into the field and it may be beginning to balance out and contract...

Umm they could also layoff or cut faculty pay to meet the budget? I guess they're more worried about their own jobs and salaries than their graduating students finding jobs. They're essentially saying "**** you, we matter more than you" lol. I can confirm some schools are cutting down on class sizes though

 

[sozetone]

It's no matter, the waves of pharmacy graduates being released year after year is more than enough to destroy the market for this field. It's already hurting so badly. So many displaced pharmacists, the companies do whatever they want to you, Salaries dropping, Hours cut, Company cutbacks. Spells disaster.

 

[sozetone]

Probably never. We can't even convince prepharms that it's bad.

Don't underestimate the ignorance of the general public. The average person isn't aware of the oversupply of law graduates and it's been bad for over a dozen years.

Yeah i hired a student loan lawyer who got into that line of law because of that very reason. Good niche. Smart move on her part. Shes helping me get out of a couple of private loans i took out like a dummy. Never realizing though they would jack up my interest to 9.5% on one of them. And i have a stellar credit score...always have. I said ***k em' . ..if they are going to make it too difficult and drown me, i will default and settle the matter in court. My credit will take a hit for a few years, but i made sure to buy a car, lock in a few credit cards....lol. And my wife can always help out. Looks like 3-4 years bad luck at the most. To alleviate 70K, i'll end up paying a little something, but not too much. after that, it's all gravy.....

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I feel like Andrew Yang and his freedom dividend will turn this ****tyass society around including pharmacy and the ****tyass student loans lol

 

[Sine Cura]

You won't see "catastrophic change." The ruination of this "profession" in the U.S., at least for the majority if its members, happens gradually and worsens every day

 

[sozetone]

You won't see "catastrophic change." The ruination of this "profession" in the U.S., at least for the majority if its members, happens gradually and worsens every day

I get it, yeah it's a slow progression, so when do you see it PEAKING? like at a point where it's just ridiculous and time to step out?

 

[Sine Cura]

Peaking? That implies a recovery.

The changes we see are irreversible. If Amazon doesn't eat CVS and Wags lunch some other player will. IT'S OVER LOL!

 

[beautifulrobot]

Peaking? That implies a recovery.

The changes we see are irreversible. If Amazon doesn't eat CVS and Wags lunch some other player will. IT'S OVER LOL!

Yeah. I wouldnt be surprised if climate change wreaks havoc on humanity before any kind of meaningful improvement in the pharmacy profession happens. Maybe once society is in complete ruins we can claim provider status, since there wont be any functional government or health system to tell us no.

 

[projektreverb]

^My vote is the rapture will happen before climate change kills us. So essentially things will never get better.

 

[321931]

Medicare for all would be the final nail in the coffin for pharmacy. Competition, saturation sucks, but if fees get cut and insurance companies go bye bye...so does your salary.

So honestly my outlook is 2024/2028. I give it another decade. Even if a blue wave takes over 2020, it takes time to pass laws.

Dentistry can survive... everyone needs teeth fixing. Medicine can survive...everyone needs a doc- although would totally not be worth the schooling, tuition, and pressure with cut fees....

Pharmacy is being attacked by all angles...automation...monopoly companies cvs....or cvs.... take your pick...oversaturation...and the final nail...medicare for all.

 

[beautifulrobot]

On a more serious note, medicare for all offers a lot of opportunity. More people covered means a greater demand for services. Also, what medicare for all will actually look like can vary drastically, and theres a very real possibility of private-public partnerships, meaning we wont all be working directly for the government (for better or worse). Countries that have universal healthcare still need pharmacists and pharmacists make living wages in those countries. In the united states, pharmacists that work for the VA, DOD, IHS, BOP and other government healthcare systems make a decent living and have good job satisfaction. Sure, salaries for most will go down, but medicare for all might actually make the pharmacy profession a more enjoyable and meaningful profession again.

I am obviously biased, but i fear privatization more than i fear socialization. I would take working for the government over working for a corporation any day.

 

[JustFillIt]

Yeah i hired a student loan lawyer who got into that line of law because of that very reason. Good niche. Smart move on her part. Shes helping me get out of a couple of private loans i took out like a dummy. Never realizing though they would jack up my interest to 9.5% on one of them. And i have a stellar credit score...always have. I said ***k em' . ..if they are going to make it too difficult and drown me, i will default and settle the matter in court. My credit will take a hit for a few years, but i made sure to buy a car, lock in a few credit cards....lol. And my wife can always help out. Looks like 3-4 years bad luck at the most. To alleviate 70K, i'll end up paying a little something, but not too much. after that, it's all gravy.....

Haha! I honestly appreciate and respect you in this forum. But geeze - this is bad financial planning.

The “after that it’s all gravy” concept is dangerous, especially when you couple it with the concept of defaulting loans

 

[MatCauthon]

this is going to be a very bad year for new graduates. never seen this market look so saturated and so many graduates from previous year still looking for a job. its only going to take a couple years like this for the word to get out that the pharmacy field is in decline. enrollments will start declining especially if these schools have high unemployment rates. During our interviews we wont even interview people from new schools, especially the ones like California northstate with low naplex pass rates.

 

[mentos]

this is going to be a very bad year for new graduates. never seen this market look so saturated and so many graduates from previous year still looking for a job. its only going to take a couple years like this for the word to get out that the pharmacy field is in decline. enrollments will start declining especially if these schools have high unemployment rates. During our interviews we wont even interview people from new schools, especially the ones like California northstate with low naplex pass rates.

These schools are still touting 99% employment rate with no data to back it up, no mention of full time vs part time vs per diem, how long it took their students to get a job, or most importantly where in BFE these jobs are. Not to mention the only people who respond to their surveys are the ones who got jobs. Unemployed students aren't going to go around telling anyone they can't find a job.

As long as per pharms hear this fake 99% rate, they'll continue to flock to pharmacy school.

 

[projektreverb]

I’ve heard some schools are struggling to fill seats already

 

[rph3664]

Medicare for all would be the final nail in the coffin for pharmacy. Competition, saturation sucks, but if fees get cut and insurance companies go bye bye...so does your salary.

So honestly my outlook is 2024/2028. I give it another decade. Even if a blue wave takes over 2020, it takes time to pass laws.

Dentistry can survive... everyone needs teeth fixing. Medicine can survive...everyone needs a doc- although would totally not be worth the schooling, tuition, and pressure with cut fees....

Pharmacy is being attacked by all angles...automation...monopoly companies cvs....or cvs.... take your pick...oversaturation...and the final nail...medicare for all.

I was in retail when Medicare Part D(isaster) was announced around 2000, and there was a lot of publicity about how pharmacists were almost universally opposed to it. A co-worker with 20 years on me summed it up this way: "When that goes online, you will find out how free it is."

However, as a cancer survivor, I am EXTREMELY grateful for the ACA, and even though the insurance I buy on my own because I am self-employed has a relatively high deductible, I can pay an affordable-to-me premium and not worry about it being cancelled. This past year and a half, it has paid my claims, once the deductible was met, with barely a hiccup.

I knew we were in trouble when I was job-hunting in 2010 and one interviewer told me that a lot of graduates back then were pursuing residencies just so they would have a job that paid more than minimum wage.

 

[Thoughtfulsinner]

Medicare for all would end pharmacy wages. Fortunately there is little chance of it being implemented.

 

[alpha12]

Medicare for all would end pharmacy wages. Fortunately there is little chance of it being implemented.

Free market capitalism is already doing a good job of that.

 

[Sine Cura]

BuT tHaT's NoT rEaL cApItAlIsM

 

[sozetone]

Haha! I honestly appreciate and respect you in this forum. But geeze - this is bad financial planning.

The “after that it’s all gravy” concept is dangerous, especially when you couple it with the concept of defaulting loans

We have enough to retire at 50 as it stands now. im done with pharmacy once this gig runs out. leaving it to the millenials. And i could care less about default personally. I took care of everything before this like new car.....etc. A few years bad luck once this crappy loan is paid. You didn't think I would keep paying on a loan at 9.5% interest did ya? lol. i took it out with a credit score over 800, and the rate was like 3% or so and maintained my superior credit the whole time, why would they slowly raise it to over 9%? i dunno, but now they get back basically what they loaned. My wife will handle anything credit related for a few years. So in other words between myself and my wife, these two private loans are the last of it. and we are flush for cash. take care pharmacy, i'll jump back in if it ever picks up again and stabilizes. good financial plan. lol

 

[JustFillIt]

We have enough to retire at 50 as it stands now. im done with pharmacy once this gig runs out. leaving it to the millenials. And i could care less about default personally. I took care of everything before this like new car.....etc. A few years bad luck once this crappy loan is paid. You didn't think I would keep paying on a loan at 9.5% interest did ya? lol. i took it out with a credit score over 800, and the rate was like 3% or so and maintained my superior credit the whole time, why would they slowly raise it to over 9%? i dunno, but now they get back basically what they loaned. My wife will handle anything credit related for a few years. So in other words between myself and my wife, these two private loans are the last of it. and we are flush for cash. take care pharmacy, i'll jump back in if it ever picks up again and stabilizes. good financial plan. lol

Fair enough. I get it. Stick it to the man bro!

Don’t forget though. There are a lot of non retail jobs that are still fairly decent to get into though. Use Walmart as a stepping stone. Start looking for a unicorn job while you work for them. Sooner or later you might get lucky.

 

[8turkeys]

There was a 25% drop in applications the last year according to a connection that is close to a dean... i dont know if it was over 1 year period or a few years totam but anyway, colleges are looking to scale back because they cant find applicants

 

[sozetone]

Fair enough. I get it. Stick it to the man bro!

Don’t forget though. There are a lot of non retail jobs that are still fairly decent to get into though. Use Walmart as a stepping stone. Start looking for a unicorn job while you work for them. Sooner or later you might get lucky.

I suppose i could, but i have a business opportunity opening up in the near future. As long as it goes to plan.....but like i always say, you wanna hear god laugh? .... tell him your plans.

 

[sozetone]

Probably never. We can't even convince prepharms that it's bad.

Don't underestimate the ignorance of the general public. The average person isn't aware of the oversupply of law graduates and it's been bad for over a dozen years.

Thats scary, but i think pharmacy would be different. At the end of the day, it is some form of healthcare. Standards and safety have to be met, as well as patient expectations. If we start not meeting the basics, we have a crisis. Have you seen these new kids rolling in at 28-30? with little to no experience? watching them fill a script is like watching a monkey F**k a football! lol, and the communication skill set on them is pathetic.

 

[RxRunner]

About 50 pharmacists just lost their jobs from Shoppers closing in the Mid-Atlantic Shoppers Begins Closing Pharmacies

 

[TerryTerry]

Damn. What happened to the idea of keeping pharmacy open to make grocery store more attractive to general public as one stop shop...

 

[projektreverb]

Damn. What happened to the idea of keeping pharmacy open to make grocery store more attractive to general public as one stop shop...

They are getting killed with claw backs.