What is residency like for psychiatry vs regular dr?

[Midoritori2018]

Just curious, do psychiatry students in residency put in the same long long hours as regular drs in residency? How does it compare? How grueling is it?

Thanks!

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[WisNeuro]

Which specialties are the regular Drs again?

 

[Bartelby]

It depends on what a "regular doctor" is. I will presume here that you mean internal medicine. Psychiatry tends to have shorter weekly hours (average probably 45-60 depending on the rotation) compared to IM (probably 60-90 depending on the rotation). Programs also vary in both fields in the volume of work and work hours. IM can finish residency in 3 years without subspecialty training. Psychiatry requires 4.

Both specialties can be grueling in their own way, but I think IM typically gets it worse.

 

[Midoritori2018]

Which specialties are the regular Drs again?

Fair play. I just mean compared to all other specialties (general physician, internal dr etc).

 

[Midoritori2018]

It depends on what a "regular doctor" is. I will presume here that you mean internal medicine. Psychiatry tends to have shorter weekly hours (average probably 45-60 depending on the rotation) compared to IM (probably 60-90 depending on the rotation). Programs also vary in both fields in the volume of work and work hours. IM can finish residency in 3 years without subspecialty training. Psychiatry requires 4.

Both specialties can be grueling in their own way, but I think IM typically gets it worse.

Thanks for your reply. So for residency, are we doing those work weeks in addition to studying for classes? Or is this after we have completed classes? I think the latter but wanted to make sure. In other words is our work week as a resident our only responsibility at that time. I’m so new to this all. Thanks so much

 

[hamstergang]

So for residency, are we doing those work weeks in addition to studying for classes? Or is this after we have completed classes?

Residency is not school.

It sounds to me like you're seeking out a level of detail that really isn't needed yet for someone in your position. That is, if you're not even in med school yet (right?) then why do you need to compare the hours of residency programs already?

 

[Midoritori2018]

Residency is not school.

It sounds to me like you're seeking out a level of detail that really isn't needed yet for someone in your position. That is, if you're not even in med school yet (right?) then why do you need to compare the hours of residency programs already?

No not yet. I’ll be applying. But I need to know for work/life balance with kids. Just trying to wrap my head around what would be ahead. I like to know what I’m getting into in the long run

 

[CidHighwind]

People give you crap for not being in medical school, but there’s nothing wrong with having a vague idea of what you want to do for a living before going to medical school. You should still be open minded to other specialties however. OP keep in mind that most attendings can have pretty nice lifestyles in most specialties if they are willing to accept less money.

 

[Bobbbyyyy]

Thanks for your reply. So for residency, are we doing those work weeks in addition to studying for classes? Or is this after we have completed classes? I think the latter but wanted to make sure. In other words is our work week as a resident our only responsibility at that time. I’m so new to this all. Thanks so much

The hours that people have mentioned are excluding your personal study time. These are the work week hours that consist of you either being at the hospital or a clinic where you will be treating patients, but they do include your daily didactic and conferences that are structured into the course such as noon conference and subspecialty lectures, quality improvement case reports, etc. so technically that does count as studying (kind of). But no, your personal studying that you need to do at home is not included in the work hours that are mentioned earlier.

 

[LizzyM]

Medical school is 4 years in length. The traditional model is that the first 2 years are classroom and laboratory based with a bit of exposure to patients as you learn how to take a history and perform a physical examination. The final two years consist of clinical training in the in-patient and out-patient (ambulatory care aka office ) setting. This can include overnights in the hospital as you rotate through the mandatory training, called "clerkships" as well as electives. There is studying to do and exams as you learn about the various specialties within medicine (internal medicine, OB-GYN, pediatrics, neurology/psychiatry, surgery are the usual mandatory clerkships).
In your 4th year of medical school, you apply for residency. This is at least one year (the minimum needed for licensure) but usually 3-7 years of hands on training in a clinical setting. This can include overnight shifts in the hospital and is limited, at least on paper, to not more than 80 hrs/wk. There are board certification examinations to be taken during residency.
At the end of residency, one can apply for a subspecialty fellowship. For example, internal medicine has numerous subspecialties such as allergy, cardiology, gastroenterology, etc. From psychiatry, one can do fellowships in addiction medicine, child and adolescent psychiatry, etc. Last I heard, there were no limits on duty hours for fellows and they were being slammed picking up the slack for residents who could no longer put in the hours they did before limits were placed on their hours/wk.

 

[Midoritori2018]

The hours that people have mentioned are excluding your personal study time. These are the work week hours that consist of you either being at the hospital or a clinic where you will be treating patients, but they do include your daily didactic and conferences that are structured into the course such as noon conference and subspecialty lectures, quality improvement case reports, etc. so technically that does count as studying (kind of). But no, your personal studying that you need to do at home is not included in the work hours that are mentioned earlier.

Is this personal study that involves weekly exams? I’m so new to this. Are there any great books that outline what the experience of going into psychiatry from med school to residency? Thanks so much

Edit: I see the person above explained there are board exams during residency.

 

[Midoritori2018]

Medical school is 4 years in length. The traditional model is that the first 2 years are classroom and laboratory based with a bit of exposure to patients as you learn how to take a history and perform a physical examination. The final two years consist of clinical training in the in-patient and out-patient (ambulatory care aka office ) setting. This can include overnights in the hospital as you rotate through the mandatory training, called "clerkships" as well as electives. There is studying to do and exams as you learn about the various specialties within medicine (internal medicine, OB-GYN, pediatrics, neurology/psychiatry, surgery are the usual mandatory clerkships).
In your 4th year of medical school, you apply for residency. This is at least one year (the minimum needed for licensure) but usually 3-7 years of hands on training in a clinical setting. This can include overnight shifts in the hospital and is limited, at least on paper, to not more than 80 hrs/wk. There are board certification examinations to be taken during residency.
At the end of residency, one can apply for a subspecialty fellowship. For example, internal medicine has numerous subspecialties such as allergy, cardiology, gastroenterology, etc. From psychiatry, one can do fellowships in addiction medicine, child and adolescent psychiatry, etc. Last I heard, there were no limits on duty hours for fellows and they were being slammed picking up the slack for residents who could no longer put in the hours they did before limits were placed on their hours/wk.

Thanks

 

[Midoritori2018]

Medical school is 4 years in length. The traditional model is that the first 2 years are classroom and laboratory based with a bit of exposure to patients as you learn how to take a history and perform a physical examination. The final two years consist of clinical training in the in-patient and out-patient (ambulatory care aka office ) setting. This can include overnights in the hospital as you rotate through the mandatory training, called "clerkships" as well as electives. There is studying to do and exams as you learn about the various specialties within medicine (internal medicine, OB-GYN, pediatrics, neurology/psychiatry, surgery are the usual mandatory clerkships).
In your 4th year of medical school, you apply for residency. This is at least one year (the minimum needed for licensure) but usually 3-7 years of hands on training in a clinical setting. This can include overnight shifts in the hospital and is limited, at least on paper, to not more than 80 hrs/wk. There are board certification examinations to be taken during residency.
At the end of residency, one can apply for a subspecialty fellowship. For example, internal medicine has numerous subspecialties such as allergy, cardiology, gastroenterology, etc. From psychiatry, one can do fellowships in addiction medicine, child and adolescent psychiatry, etc. Last I heard, there were no limits on duty hours for fellows and they were being slammed picking up the slack for residents who could no longer put in the hours they did before limits were placed on their hours/wk.

Quick question (at the risk of sounding dumb) , do psychiatry students do the same residency (sewing up fingers, helping people with wounds in the ER) that other specialities do? Or is their residency only ever in mental health? Thanks

 

[ndafife]

Quick question (at the risk of sounding dumb) , do psychiatry students do the same residency (sewing up fingers, helping people with wounds in the ER) that other specialities do? Or is their residency only ever in mental health? Thanks

Every specialty does a different residency. There is no psych vs "regular doctor" training.

Some psych programs may have off service rotations in the ED or a medicine service but the vast majority of the rotation is going to be doing psychiatry, just like an EM residency is heavily EM, OBGYN is pretty much just OBGYN, Ortho is does ortho, and etc...

 

[907914]

sewing up fingers, helping people with wounds in the ER

You still need to be comfortable doing this stuff as you may very well do it in clinical years of MED school and there is always the chance that you don’t match where you want (HIGHLY unlikely with psych, but you theoretically could match in to family medicine or whatever else constitutes “regular doctor”)

 

[ciestar]

Quick question (at the risk of sounding dumb) , do psychiatry students do the same residency (sewing up fingers, helping people with wounds in the ER) that other specialities do? Or is their residency only ever in mental health? Thanks

From my understanding, at least when i did my psych rotation, that psych residents still get like six months worth of internal medicine training their intern year of residency.

The other stuff you alluded to you could see while on rotations your third and fourth year of medical school.

 

[ciestar]

You still need to be comfortable doing this stuff as you may very well do it in clinical years of MED school and there is always the chance that you don’t match where you want (HIGHLY unlikely with psych, but you theoretically could match in to family medicine or whatever else constitutes “regular doctor”)

Psych is becoming competitive. Plenty of people arent matching.

 

[LizzyM]

Quick question (at the risk of sounding dumb) , do psychiatry students do the same residency (sewing up fingers, helping people with wounds in the ER) that other specialities do? Or is their residency only ever in mental health? Thanks

Residency is devoted to a specific field: psychiatry, family medicine, emergency medicine, neurology, urology, pediatrics, radiology, pathology, etc. Some residencies require a transitional or preliminary year of "basic training" before starting into your chosen field.

 

[907914]

Psych is becoming competitive. Plenty of people arent matching.

Well there you go.

I hear the same thing about PM&R...all of the hidden lifestyle specialties have been found...

 

[ciestar]

Well there you go.

I hear the same thing about PM&R...all of the hidden lifestyle specialties have been found...

Yes they have.

 

[907914]

Yes they have.

Thankfully, things can only get so competitive. And family MED is always a backup.

 

[CidHighwind]

Well there you go.

I hear the same thing about PM&R...all of the hidden lifestyle specialties have been found...

Because whenever there’s a thread on these things, people point them out. Hence why some specialties try to hide their good schedules to remain non competitive.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But I need to know for work/life balance with kids. Just trying to wrap my head around what would be ahead. I like to know what I’m getting into in the long run

There will be many, many days you leave before your kids wake up and come home after they go to bed. There will be days you will have to look your kids in the face and tell them you can't go to the zoo because "Daddy/mommy has to work." There will be times you are so stressed you might be distant from your family, and there will be times you come home after working where you are so tired that you can't do anything to help out and all you will be able to do is sleep. There will be times you are called in right before your daughter is going to do their gymnastics routine and you can't stay to see it, or you will FaceTime your kids and they will ask you when you are coming home to play when you still have hours of work left.

There will also be times where you coded two patients during your night shift and are super depressed about it but then you walk in and your kids run to you so excited and happy to see you and it makes you feel better. You will also know without a shadow of a doubt your SO is the one because they put up with all of your crap over and over. You will see patients in the twilight years of their life with a textbook's amount of medical issues put on hospice and their family supporting them lovingly and it will make you so grateful you have your family to support you like that and can't wait to get home to them. Your family is your safe place you can turn to when you need something to distract you from how much medical training sucks.

Medical school with a family is hard, but I wouldn't trade it for any other situation. You just need to know how to prioritize the time you get to spend with them, and you need a SO who is understanding of the fact that you will be completely absent a lot of the time who won't resent you for that.

 

[Medic741]

Just curious, do psychiatry students in residency put in the same long long hours as regular drs in residency? How does it compare? How grueling is it?

Thanks!

Nope! 40-50 hours per week. It’s dope. Plus you can do inpatient / outpatient, the pay is good, demand is high and anything gross gets taken care of by another specialty.

Stoked on a future career in psych.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

From my understanding, at least when i did my psych rotation, that psych residents still get like six months worth of internal medicine training their intern year of residency.

The other stuff you alluded to you could see while on rotations your third and fourth year of medical school.

True average step 1 for matched psych students is 226. I wouldn’t say it’s that competitive for an average student . But if you are a poor student gone are the days where psych was a backup .

 

[ciestar]

True average step 1 for matched psych students is 226. I wouldn’t say it’s that competitive for an average student . But if you are a poor student gone are the days where psych was a backup .

Doesnt change the fact it is getting MORE competitive.

But yes, psych isnt a “gimme” anymore.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

Doesnt change the fact it is getting MORE competitive.

But yes, psych isnt a “gimme” anymore.

I would say only more competitive for the poor performing student. The only other specialties with lower average step 1 scores were PM and R at 225 and Fm at 220. Even IM has a higher average step score at 233.

 

[907914]

I would say only more competitive for the poor performing student. The only other specialties with lower average step 1 scores were PM and R at 225 and Fm at 220. Even IM has a higher average step score at 233.

How does that even make sense...? If the 50th percentile is around a 233, then how are only 4 specialties lower than the 50%....? Are there just that many FM and IM seats?

 

[BorderlineQueen]

How does that even make sense...? If the 50th percentile is around a 233, then how are only 4 specialties lower than the 50%....? Are there just that many FM and IM seats?

Psychiatry has around 1556 positions available. FM has 3629 positions available. IM has around 7916 positions available.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If the 50th percentile is around a 233

231 is the reported median for 2018, the curve which was reported on the score reports of test takers this year.

Are there just that many FM and IM seats?

Yes. They are easily the two most matched specialties (for MD or DO) along with peds.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

There will be many, many days you leave before your kids wake up and come home after they go to bed. There will be days you will have to look your kids in the face and tell them you can't go to the zoo because "Daddy/mommy has to work." There will be times you are so stressed you might be distant from your family, and there will be times you come home after working where you are so tired that you can't do anything to help out and all you will be able to do is sleep. There will be times you are called in right before your daughter is going to do their gymnastics routine and you can't stay to see it, or you will FaceTime your kids and they will ask you when you are coming home to play when you still have hours of work left.

There will also be times where you coded two patients during your night shift and are super depressed about it but then you walk in and your kids run to you so excited and happy to see you and it makes you feel better. You will also know without a shadow of a doubt your SO is the one because they put up with all of your crap over and over. You will see patients in the twilight years of their life with a textbook's amount of medical issues put on hospice and their family supporting them lovingly and it will make you so grateful you have your family to support you like that and can't wait to get home to them. Your family is your safe place you can turn to when you need something to distract you from how much medical training sucks.

Medical school with a family is hard, but I wouldn't trade it for any other situation. You just need to know how to prioritize the time you get to spend with them, and you need a SO who is understanding of the fact that you will be completely absent a lot of the time who won't resent you for that.

I love this post. This or a similar post needs to be stickied in the pre-med forum to remind those naive kids of what they're getting themselves into.