What is Going on With NSUKPCOM?

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Drbench

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Pass rates of 85%? Can any current students, etc give some input here?
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I do not go to the med school, but I went to NSU for my undergrad, and I can say that the school is not doing well internally. The professors (including those that teach in the med school) always complaining about changes made by the administration and the administration in general, many of my professors were worried about being fired because of the lack of funding. Also, a physician I shadowed currently teaches at NSUKPCOM and they advised me not to go there because of the school's curriculum. It's an unfortunate situation, but NSU needs to get their s*** together, especially with the class action law set that was brought against the dental school (which is an entire other mess)
 
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Non-grad (31) who was raised 8 minutes from NSU my entire life.. my wife has a good job here and both our families are here (11 mo son). I turned down my NSU accept because you can just tell that something isn’t right... I also know one current student who completed the masters and linked in as a first year DO this year and he advised to stay way... we also get fourth years rotating through the ER I work at and they will mostly say the same. Sad to see and I am very sad to be leaving my home but DMU and the snow are going to be my new home for now...
 
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Any specifics of whats going on though?
 
Schwifty said:
I do not go to the med school, but I went to NSU for my undergrad, and I can say that the school is not doing well internally. The professors (including those that teach in the med school) always complaining about changes made by the administration and the administration in general, many of my professors were worried about being fired because of the lack of funding. Also, a physician I shadowed currently teaches at NSUKPCOM and they advised me not to go there because of the school's curriculum. It's an unfortunate situation, but NSU needs to get their s*** together, especially with the class action law set that was brought against the dental school (which is an entire other mess)
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What exactly is wrong with their curriculum
 
For Nova, three of the four last years have declining first-time COMLEX pass rates. They're now at ~85% and on top of this, some 7% of their 2018 grads failed to match. This was the second worst match rate among all the COMs (only WCU did worse). I have yet to see data for the Class of 2019; if anyone has it, I and others would be grateful to see.

These are things you expect from a new school, not a veteran. Something is very wrong there.
 
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Not trying to sound rude, but when people ask these questions on here... what exactly are you looking for? I’m not some all-knowing being who can see what’s going on behind the scenes of my own school let alone compare it to others. And my goal in life isn’t to convince you or anyone else to come here. So if you feel uneasy, don’t.
 
Goro said:
For Nova, three of the four last years have declining first-time COMLEX pass rates. They're now at ~85% and on top of this, some 7% of their 2018 grads failed to match. This was the second worst match rate among all the COMs (only WCU did worse). I have yet to see data for the Class of 2019; if anyone has it, I and others would be grateful to see.

These are things you expect from a new school, not a veteran. Something is very wrong there.
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Residency Match Data and COMLEX Level 3 Board Scores | NSU COM

NSU students are highly competitive in American Osteopathic Association (AOA), Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) and military residency programs.
osteopathic.nova.edu osteopathic.nova.edu

221 of 229 matched for 96.5%
 
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Goro said:
Many thanks. That is a step in the right direction.

More concerning is that a year later, they still haven't posted the pass rate for the 2017-2018 Comlex takers.
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What exactly does 28 transitional years mean?
 
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Drbench said:
What exactly does 28 transitional years mean?
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A transitional year is a preliminary, one year residency. Many times these are a required filler year for other specialties. For example, neuro programs all require that you spend a year doing something else. At my school, number of my kids are doing TRIs before going on to things like Neuro, rads or PM&R. I don't know if 28 TRIs are bad or good...I don't have my own match list here, so I'll have to check tomorrow.

The downside is that some TRIs are merely dead end positions and then next year, ople have to go into the match all over again. This is a trap many Carbi grads fall into, never to be be heard from again, career wise. Yet their schools counts them as "matched"!
 
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I don’t think you are ever going to pinpoint one huge secret behind the NSU struggles... it’s likely a compound of 1. Not listening to student body. 2. Poor or weak admin 3. For profit as the bottom line

For the TRIs I am admittedly more ignorant than most, but from what I can gather it’s likely that some of the TRIs have strong applications and are preparing to match strong while some TRIs took those positions in desperation to match somewhere...
 
The TRIs/Pre-lims means a couple things, 1. people who matched a PGY-2 spot like rads/Derm/some anesthesia/etc and need that intern year before starting their real residency, 2. People who applied to competitive specialties and didn't match, these people will be fine as they typically just reapply into specialties less competitive than what they were going for and they have solid apps, 3. People who are just praying for anything and are in real trouble of not ever getting a residency.

The problem is it is difficult to know how many fall into each category, but I will say that 28 is A LOT and not a good sign.
 
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Drbench said:
What exactly does 28 transitional years mean?
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Goro said:
A transitional year is a preliminary, one year residency. Many times these are a required filler year for other specialties. For example, neuro programs all require that you spend a year doing something else. At my school, number of my kids are doing TRIs before going on to things like Neuro, rads or PM&R. I don't know if 28 TRIs are bad or good...I don't have my own match list here, so I'll have to check tomorrow.

The downside is that some TRIs are merely dead end positions and then next year, ople have to go into the match all over again. This is a trap many Carbi grads fall into, never to be be heard from again, career wise. Yet their schools counts them as "matched"!
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Blanky said:
I don’t think you are ever going to pinpoint one huge secret behind the NSU struggles... it’s likely a compound of 1. Not listening to student body. 2. Poor or weak admin 3. For profit as the bottom line

For the TRIs I am admittedly more ignorant than most, but from what I can gather it’s likely that some of the TRIs have strong applications and are preparing to match strong while some TRIs took those positions in desperation to match somewhere...
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
The TRIs/Pre-lims means a couple things, 1. people who matched a PGY-2 spot like rads/Derm/some anesthesia/etc and need that intern year before starting their real residency, 2. People who applied to competitive specialties and didn't match, these people will be fine as they typically just reapply into specialties less competitive than what they were going for and they have solid apps, 3. People who are just praying for anything and are in real trouble of not ever getting a residency.

The problem is it is difficult to know how many fall into each category, but I will say that 28 is A LOT and not a good sign.
Click to expand...

If you look at the match list, you can see that at least 19 are marked as PGY2 advanced positions requiring a separate PGY1. So that is 19 in @AnatomyGrey12’s first category, and 9 between category 2 and 3.
 
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sunshinefl said:
If you look at the match list, you can see that at least 19 are marked as PGY2 advanced positions requiring a separate PGY1. So that is 19 in @AnatomyGrey12’s first category, and 9 between category 2 and 3.
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Not quite, there are also 8 pre-lim med/surgery spots not listed under the TRI line. So there are 17 in categories 2 and 3....
 
I’m an alum. Pass rates were well into the mid 90s when I graduated. We had a decent matchlist, but not the best. Not because of lack of talent, but because we had no direction whatsoever from the school. If you were applying competitive specialties and asked for advice, their advice was not to apply because you’re not gonna match, apply to FM instead at the local program. Not kidding.

There were a lot of curriculum changes, even with our class. But it didn’t seem to affect the Level 1 pass rate. The worst thing about Nova was rural rotations in your 4th year. You had 2 back to back months, and they didn’t care if you had to do them in the middle of SUBI season. You literally got shafted if you were doing surgery/surg subs, because only way to get them was through auditions.
 
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DarkHorizon said:
I’m an alum. Pass rates were well into the mid 90s when I graduated. We had a decent matchlist, but not the best. Not because of lack of talent, but because we had no direction whatsoever from the school. If you were applying competitive specialties and asked for advice, their advice was not to apply because you’re not gonna match, apply to FM instead at the local program. Not kidding.

There were a lot of curriculum changes, even with our class. But it didn’t seem to affect the Level 1 pass rate. The worst thing about Nova was rural rotations in your 4th year. You had 2 back to back months, and they didn’t care if you had to do them in the middle of SUBI season. You literally got shafted if you were doing surgery/surg subs, because only way to get them was through auditions.
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That’s still a thing. Luckily, mine are at a site I wanted, in a city (underserved part of “rural and underserved”), and in January and February of 4th year.
 
DarkHorizon said:
I’m an alum. Pass rates were well into the mid 90s when I graduated. We had a decent matchlist, but not the best. Not because of lack of talent, but because we had no direction whatsoever from the school. If you were applying competitive specialties and asked for advice, their advice was not to apply because you’re not gonna match, apply to FM instead at the local program. Not kidding.

There were a lot of curriculum changes, even with our class. But it didn’t seem to affect the Level 1 pass rate. The worst thing about Nova was rural rotations in your 4th year. You had 2 back to back months, and they didn’t care if you had to do them in the middle of SUBI season. You literally got shafted if you were doing surgery/surg subs, because only way to get them was through auditions.
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It's like DO schools don't want their students to do well. Did this school limit the time you could miss to go on interviews 4th year too?
 
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sunshinefl said:
That’s still a thing. Luckily, mine are at a site I wanted, in a city (underserved part of “rural and underserved”), and in January and February of 4th year.
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I met someone that has them right in the beginning of 4th year. It really sucks
 
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Neopolymath said:
It's like DO schools don't want their students to do well. Did this school limit the time you could miss to go on interviews 4th year too?
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Yes, I didn’t give a **** and went to my interviews, they pulled me off of the rotation because the preceptor complained. I had to repeat that rotation at the end of 4th year. It was unprofessional on my part too. They could have dismissed me but didn’t. They allowed me to repeat the rotation. I matched ortho so it all worked out. But it became very stressful at that time.

This should have never happened if it wasn’t for their absurd policy. I had no infractions prior to this and never came close to failing anything. Others weren’t that lucky, they were either bullied to only take two days off for interviews, or had an unprofessional conduct hearing if they had previous unprofessionalism issues. I know this is an issue at other DO schools too, had a student come through from LECOM, apparently they are quick to dismiss you if you pull stuff like this.
 
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DarkHorizon said:
Yes, I didn’t give a **** and went to my interviews, they pulled me off of the rotation because the preceptor complained. I had to repeat that rotation at the end of 4th year. It was unprofessional on my part too. They could have dismissed me but didn’t. They allowed me to repeat the rotation. I matched ortho so it all worked out. But it became very stressful at that time.
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Wow! At my school you can't even make up a rotation. Somehow you only have 1 vacation month to use for all of year 3 and 4 and everyone uses it to get some dedicated study time. Good on you for doing what needed to be done.
 
Neopolymath said:
Wow! At my school you can't even make up a rotation. Somehow you only have 1 vacation month to use for all of year 3 and 4 and everyone uses it to get some dedicated study time. Good on you for doing what needed to be done.
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It was a risky move that paid off, but it could have backfired. I realize that it was unprofessional but I felt I had to maximize my chance to get a spot at the time. Looking back at it, it could have totally derailed my medical career, people have unprofessional conduct on their records for less and it follows them for the rest of their lives.
 
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In my humble opinion there is large standard dev between the best student and the worse.
For example on an exam let’s say the average is 75, the highest grade would be 100 and the worse would be 50.
 
ilfdinar said:
In my humble opinion there is large standard dev between the best student and the worse.
For example on an exam let’s say the average is 75, the highest grade would be 100 and the worse would be 50.
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Eh not everywhere. Our median GPA for the first two years was a 3.55 or something like that. All it takes is a couple A-s instead of As (and god forbid a B) and your rank is tanked. Speaking from experience haha
 
For what its worth nsu is changing its curriculum next year.
Some classes are easy but some are exceptionally hard and some people fail those classes.
There are three classes people usually fail first year.
 
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DarkHorizon said:
Yes, I didn’t give a **** and went to my interviews, they pulled me off of the rotation because the preceptor complained. I had to repeat that rotation at the end of 4th year. It was unprofessional on my part too. They could have dismissed me but didn’t. They allowed me to repeat the rotation. I matched ortho so it all worked out. But it became very stressful at that time.

This should have never happened if it wasn’t for their absurd policy. I had no infractions prior to this and never came close to failing anything. Others weren’t that lucky, they were either bullied to only take two days off for interviews, or had an unprofessional conduct hearing if they had previous unprofessionalism issues. I know this is an issue at other DO schools too, had a student come through from LECOM, apparently they are quick to dismiss you if you pull stuff like this.
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A lot of DO schools have these ridiculous policies. I remember meeting plenty of people in 4th year that had similar ones from at least 4 different DO school in the East coast. LECOM's policy is 10 days off total for interviews/travel time, and no more than 5 days off each rotation (holidays included). Everyone just kept their mouth shut and worked things out with the rotation site/attending. Its completely out of touch with how the residency application/interview process works now. I've never heard of someone getting kicked out purely for missing a few days, but I've definitely heard of people having to repeat blocks or getting off-cycle due to this policy and getting caught. There were cases though where people would show up to a total of like 5 days for a 4wk rotation. Honestly, that's just ridiculous, and they should have expected something bad to happen.

Also, advising for residency apps were exactly the same at LECOM. "Its too competitive, apply to this affiliated brand new FM program we opened up."

It's pretty messed up that your attending ratted you out, but usually I would ask attendings about it, and if they didn't seem cool, I either made those my official interview days with the school or adjusted my interview schedule. Even with the ridiculous policy, I managed to go on >20 interviews (overdid it), and I think the most days off I ever took per rotation was something like 5... but it was tiring, expensive and there were honestly a few times where I had 3 interviews 3 days in a row in different areas and even had a couple the day before or after a holiday. Glad I never have to do that again...
 
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hallowmann said:
A lot of DO schools have these ridiculous policies. I remember meeting plenty of people in 4th year that had similar ones from at least 4 different DO school in the East coast. LECOM's policy is 10 days off total for interviews/travel time, and no more than 5 days off each rotation (holidays included). Everyone just kept their mouth shut and worked things out with the rotation site/attending. Its completely out of touch with how the residency application/interview process works now. I've never heard of someone getting kicked out purely for missing a few days, but I've definitely heard of people having to repeat blocks or getting off-cycle due to this policy and getting caught. There were cases though where people would show up to a total of like 5 days for a 4wk rotation. Honestly, that's just ridiculous, and they should have expected something bad to happen.

Also, advising for residency apps were exactly the same at LECOM. "Its too competitive, apply to this affiliated brand new FM program we opened up."

It's pretty messed up that your attending ratted you out, but usually I would ask attendings about it, and if they didn't seem cool, I either made those my official interview days with the school or adjusted my interview schedule. Even with the ridiculous policy, I managed to go on >20 interviews (overdid it), and I think the most days off I ever took per rotation was something like 5... but it was tiring, expensive and there were honestly a few times where I had 3 interviews 3 days in a row in different areas and even had a couple the day before or after a holiday. Glad I never have to do that again...
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Yeah I got lucky. I wasn’t the only one. One of my classmates, one of the nicest people around, applying for peds, had their preceptor fail them when they missed too many days. That went on her record. The school didn’t budge in removing the grade and it stayed on her record. Luckily it was after applications, they matched and is now an Allergy attending.
 
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My experience was most attendings are super cool about taking time for interviews or even board exams, so it seems like it would take a lot to piss one off to the point of them failing you. To echo what has been said above, the oft repeated but unwritten rule at my school was as long as your attending is cool, don't say an effing word to the school about anything.
 
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Roxas said:
My experience was most attendings are super cool about taking time for interviews or even board exams, so it seems like it would take a lot to piss one off to the point of them failing you. To echo what has been said above, the oft repeated but unwritten rule at my school was as long as your attending is cool, don't say an effing word to the school about anything.
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To build off of this, ask your upperclassmen which attendings are cool. They will know.
 
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The_RZ_Method said:
For a mid-tier DO applicant who is going to work as if they are going for Derm but is just fine ending up in FM, is NSU still a viable school? Or are the issues so severe that NSU should not even be considered? As an FL resident, I really wish NSU didn't have all these concerns right now.
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I can't recommend NSU, period. See post #7 for why
 
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Hey Guys!

I just had an interview at NSU and loved the feel I got, but based on everything I am reading here, I am definitely uncertain if it is a school I would want to attend. If you had to choose between NSU and ARCOM (new school, had its first class of students take boards last year and had a 85% pass rate compared to 92 for Nova last year), what would you suggest? ARCOM obviously has no residency match rates to be able to look at. On top of that, NSU would work out to be about 100k more expensive after my four years. So it comes down to if the price is worth it between the two schools.

Any suggestions?
 
Drbench said:
I figured. What does it really mean?
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It means that 28 people matched into an intern year only. Some might have gotten advanced positions as well, but most schools will generally include the advanced position in their match statistics (like derm or PMR or Nuero) and not put only the transition/prelim year. 28 out of 200 is a lot of people. I would be cautious.
 
pre_med_2020 said:
Hey Guys!

I just had an interview at NSU and loved the feel I got, but based on everything I am reading here, I am definitely uncertain if it is a school I would want to attend. If you had to choose between NSU and ARCOM (new school, had its first class of students take boards last year and had a 85% pass rate compared to 92 for Nova last year), what would you suggest? ARCOM obviously has no residency match rates to be able to look at. On top of that, NSU would work out to be about 100k more expensive after my four years. So it comes down to if the price is worth it between the two schools.

Any suggestions?
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Which NSU?
That stinks, and I am guessing your stats are probably not that at a comfortable level for reapplying if those are the options. I think ARCOM is better cause they are starting some residency and their region is less competitive making it easier to match.
 
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pre_med_2020 said:
Hey Guys!

I just had an interview at NSU and loved the feel I got, but based on everything I am reading here, I am definitely uncertain if it is a school I would want to attend. If you had to choose between NSU and ARCOM (new school, had its first class of students take boards last year and had a 85% pass rate compared to 92 for Nova last year), what would you suggest? ARCOM obviously has no residency match rates to be able to look at. On top of that, NSU would work out to be about 100k more expensive after my four years. So it comes down to if the price is worth it between the two schools.

Any suggestions?
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Well, you have top consider that ARCOm had a low pass rate because as a new school, they're forced to take weaker students, and also, still haven't developed the resources to help those students while they're IN med school. Nova should know better.

My criticisms of Nova, while modified for the most recent Boards performance, still stand:
Two of the four last years have declining first-time COMLEX pass rates. The last two years for which we have data are in the low 90s. Some 7% of their 2018 grads failed to match, ditto 4% of their Class of 2019. There are also signs of significant delay to graduation in these numbers. That’s still not good for a veteran school. I’d expect > 95% pass rates and match rates closer to 100%. These problems are you expect from a new school, not a veteran. Something is very wrong there. See: Residency Match Data and COMLEX Level 3 Board Scores | NSU COM

I suspect that their drive to open the second campus has devoted resources away from the parent school.

So as such, and I do NOT say this lightly, if you were my kid, I'd send you to ARCOM.
 
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