What can I improve on?

[16mlep]

Hey guys!

I am a sophomore at a large public university in the northeast. I'd really appreciate any feedback regarding areas that I can improve to make myself competitive for top 20 schools.

My info:

male, white

cGPA: 3.97 sGPA: 4.0

Leadership: -On track to become a resident assistant
-plan on becoming a learning assistant for at at least one class.

Volunteering: -approximately 100 hrs in a hospital (with plenty of patient interaction), will likely have about 200-250 by the time I apply
- going to begin volunteering at an agency to work with the underserved in my local city, plan on getting 200-250 hours

Clinical: 10 hours directly shadowing physicians, planning on 50 by the time I apply, with 3-4 different specialites

Research: I am in a neuroscience lab, where I currently spend 1-2 hours per week. The lab focus is really interesting to me, however, I've only really done testing once or twice. Most of the time I spend looking up primary literature. Should I try to conduct independent research through this lab? (I am interested in research, but I do not necessarily plan to pursue academic medicine.)

Other: health honors society member, IM football for 2 yrs (captain), IM basketball

Am I on the right track, or are there areas to improve on? Especially regarding research, I really do not know what medical schools look for. Please Help!

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[JMilo]

Crush the MCAT, keep up the volunteering, gain more clinical hours. Your ECs are somewhat lacking for top 20s, and your competitiveness for them will largely depend on your MCAT. Top 20s are usually research heavy. I'm assuming you're a standing junior, and in that case, if you are really gunning for some top schools, you will have to score 520+ and take a gap year to gain more clinical experience and volunteering hours.

 

[16mlep]

Crush the MCAT, keep up the volunteering, gain more clinical hours. Your ECs are somewhat lacking for top 20s, and your competitiveness for them will largely depend on your MCAT. Top 20s are usually research heavy. I'm assuming you're a standing junior, and in that case, if you are really gunning for some top schools, you will have to score 520+ and take a gap year to gain more clinical experience and volunteering hours.

I am actually a sophomore right now. I am planning on joining an outdoor club, so that will be a small addition to my ECs, but something I would really enjoy. I will continue volunteering and get more clinical hours.

Would you recommend I conduct an independent research project to further my research? (I hoped to do this anyway because I think it sounds enjoyable, but I might not if it would not help me much, because it would definitely be time consuming).

Also, how many clinical hours should I actually have by the time I apply?

Btw, thank you so much for your feedback!

 

[16mlep]

Specifically, as far as top 20 schools go, I had UCLA, UCSD, and UCSF at the top of my list. I know that going UC OOSis an uphill battle, so if anyone has any insight specifically for California schools I would appreciate it!

 

[JMilo]

I am actually a sophomore right now. I am planning on joining an outdoor club, so that will be a small addition to my ECs, but something I would really enjoy. I will continue volunteering and get more clinical hours.

Would you recommend I conduct an independent research project to further my research? (I hoped to do this anyway because I think it sounds enjoyable, but I might not if it would not help me much, because it would definitely be time consuming).

Also, how many clinical hours should I actually have by the time I apply?

Btw, thank you so much for your feedback!

Reach out and try to find a mentor. It sounds like you're already working in a lab, so you should have connections. I think the general rule of thumb is a bare minimum clinical hours is 300, but you can never have too much.

Specifically, as far as top 20 schools go, I had UCLA, UCSD, and UCSF at the top of my list. I know that going UC OOSis an uphill battle, so if anyone has any insight specifically for California schools I would appreciate it!

Don't get ahead of yourself. There's no magic formula. You just have to try as hard as you can in ug and hope you get in somewhere. The biggest deciding factor is MCAT though. Don't worry about where you want to go to med school right now, save that frustration for when you are applying. Focus on the process, not the result.

 

[bae2017]

Sorry if this post is going to come across a bit harsh, but:

If that's it and you were to apply with your projected activities and hours (some generic hospital volunteering and community service, RA, not serious research, IM sports), I think your chances to draw a lot of attention from the Top 20 schools, and especially the UCs as an OOS student, are low. Regardless of your MCAT score. And that's not even besides the fact that you hour projections are likely to be overly optimistic (everyone's projections are).

You need something more ECs-wise. Why are you interested in medicine? You know, beyond "I like/am good at science and want to help people," because that is what literally every single person says and it won't be good enough for the caliber of school you are aiming for. You don't have to tell us here, but do some introspection. When you find those reasons, take them, and find a way to commit your time and energy to them. Demonstrate some serious initiative, personal investment, leadership, and desire to get your hands dirty. You mention that you don't really want a career in academic medicine but you say that you're aiming for Top 20 schools anyways. Do you realize that the missions of most of these schools is to train future leaders in academic medicine?

I like the outdoors idea that was brought up earlier. Maybe become president of your school's Outdoors Club and get certified in wilderness medicine/as an EMT. If you're serious about research, you'll want some kind of independent project OR evidence of productivity like a publication or posters, so definitely do that. Study really hard for the MCAT, you should aim for at least 518 if not 520.

 

[16mlep]

Sorry if this post is going to come across a bit harsh, but:

If that's it and you were to apply with your projected activities and hours (some generic hospital volunteering and community service, RA, not serious research, IM sports), I think your chances to draw a lot of attention from the Top 20 schools, and especially the UCs as an OOS student, are low. Regardless of your MCAT score. And that's not even besides the fact that you hour projections are likely to be overly optimistic (everyone's projections are).

You need something more ECs-wise. Why are you interested in medicine? You know, beyond "I like/am good at science and want to help people," because that is what literally every single person says and it won't be good enough for the caliber of school you are aiming for. You don't have to tell us here, but do some introspection. When you find those reasons, take them, and find a way to commit your time and energy to them. Demonstrate some serious initiative, personal investment, leadership, and desire to get your hands dirty. You mention that you don't really want a career in academic medicine but you say that you're aiming for Top 20 schools anyways. Do you realize that the missions of most of these schools is to train future leaders in academic medicine?

I like the outdoors idea that was brought up earlier. Maybe become president of your school's Outdoors Club and get certified in wilderness medicine/as an EMT. If you're serious about research, you'll want some kind of independent project OR evidence of productivity like a publication or posters, so definitely do that. Study really hard for the MCAT, you should aim for at least 518 if not 520.

Do not apologize! I really appreciate the feedback.

Honestly, I am aiming for top 20 schools because I believe they would offer me the best chance at great residency programs. Also, I knew that most of the top 20 are research oriented, but I was not sure if that were true regarding the UC schools. Should I not consider top 20 schools at all if I do not plan on pursuing academic medicine as a career? Will I realistically be able to land in a good residency program without attending a top school? (I am really sorry if I am totally ignorant to these issues)

And I feel as though I have a few personal experiences with medicine that are frankly a big reason I want to attend medical school, which I plan on implementing in my personal statement.

Thanks again for the feedback! Seriously, it helps.

 

[bae2017]

Depends on how you're defining "great residency programs." Are you speaking about competitive specialties (eg. you want to do derm, plastic surgery, ENT, etc.?) or the "best" residencies in specialties like IM, Anesthesia, EM, etc? You will quickly find that the "great" residency programs in each specialty are the academic powerhouses, the ones that produce the most research and the future department chairs at academic medical centers. If you are more interested in being a private practice dermatologist or ENT or ophthalmologist, etc., then yes going to a Top 20 can help in order to get into those competitive specialties but is by no means necessary. Plenty of private practice docs I've met went to the state med school and then onto very cushy/lucrative careers. You will quickly find that your academic pedigree matters a lot less in medicine than it might in other professions like finance, consulting or law - you won't need to go to a "big name" med school to be successful unless your goal is academics.

I am OOS but have interviews at both UCSF and UCLA. They both explicitly state that they are looking for future leaders in medicine, whether that is in terms of research, policy, teaching, community service, etc. UCSF in particular is looking for students who want to practice medicine through the lens of social justice. It seems like most of the students from UCLA and UCSF either go into primary care to serve the citizens of California or go onto academic powerhouse programs. As an OOS student, it will be difficult to break into these schools if you 1) don't have any significant connection to California and 2) do not want to do academics or cannot show significant leadership in one of those previously listed domains.

Whatever your personal experiences with medicine are, I would advise that you find some volunteering or leadership opportunities related to them. It will help a lot in terms of crafting a compelling narrative of "why medicine" - having some experience that made you interested and then turning that interest into activity and leadership demonstrates that you can also walk the walk. For example, if your experiences were about taking care of your grandma with dementia, then majoring in neuroscience, doing research on neurodegenerative diseases, volunteering in a nursing home, etc. all with demonstrable excellence, would be an excellent narrative and put you in a good position for success at the top med schools.

 

[ObjectiveBoba]

Do not apologize! I really appreciate the feedback.

...Also, I knew that most of the top 20 are research oriented, but I was not sure if that were true regarding the UC schools. Should I not consider top 20 schools at all if I do not plan on pursuing academic medicine as a career?...

Many top medical schools emphasize research, as well as most of the UCs, but even among its peers, UCSF is a tremendously research intensive institution. Research is obviously not absolutely required, but most of the applicants you will be competing with will have strong research backgrounds of some sort (e.g. a few years working in a lab, an abstract, some may have pubs, etc.). Attending a top 20 school does not necessarily mean that you need to pursue academic medicine, but the top residencies also greatly emphasize research as well -- which feeds back to many of the research-inclusive mission statements of the top 10-15 medical schools. Other parts of your application (e.g. clinical/non-clinical volunteering) will need to be strong enough to offset any lack of research at the top institutions.

Regardless of your plans as a pre-med, if you want to attend a top residency (which you mentioned as a goal of yours), many doctors, including those who no longer publish, will tell you that research is important.

Going off of what a previous poster said earlier, finding a narrative in your application is often important -- but so is showing it in your application. You can say "x/y/z are my goals in medicine," but if you include research as one of those goals, do you have anything to back it up?

 

[16mlep]

Depends on how you're defining "great residency programs." Are you speaking about competitive specialties (eg. you want to do derm, plastic surgery, ENT, etc.?) or the "best" residencies in specialties like IM, Anesthesia, EM, etc? You will quickly find that the "great" residency programs in each specialty are the academic powerhouses, the ones that produce the most research and the future department chairs at academic medical centers. If you are more interested in being a private practice dermatologist or ENT or ophthalmologist, etc., then yes going to a Top 20 can help in order to get into those competitive specialties but is by no means necessary. Plenty of private practice docs I've met went to the state med school and then onto very cushy/lucrative careers. You will quickly find that your academic pedigree matters a lot less in medicine than it might in other professions like finance, consulting or law - you won't need to go to a "big name" med school to be successful unless your goal is academics.

I am OOS but have interviews at both UCSF and UCLA. They both explicitly state that they are looking for future leaders in medicine, whether that is in terms of research, policy, teaching, community service, etc. UCSF in particular is looking for students who want to practice medicine through the lens of social justice. It seems like most of the students from UCLA and UCSF either go into primary care to serve the citizens of California or go onto academic powerhouse programs. As an OOS student, it will be difficult to break into these schools if you 1) don't have any significant connection to California and 2) do not want to do academics or cannot show significant leadership in one of those previously listed domains.

Whatever your personal experiences with medicine are, I would advise that you find some volunteering or leadership opportunities related to them. It will help a lot in terms of crafting a compelling narrative of "why medicine" - having some experience that made you interested and then turning that interest into activity and leadership demonstrates that you can also walk the walk. For example, if your experiences were about taking care of your grandma with dementia, then majoring in neuroscience, doing research on neurodegenerative diseases, volunteering in a nursing home, etc. all with demonstrable excellence, would be an excellent narrative and put you in a good position for success at the top med schools.

Depends on how you're defining "great residency programs." Are you speaking about competitive specialties (eg. you want to do derm, plastic surgery, ENT, etc.?) or the "best" residencies in specialties like IM, Anesthesia, EM, etc? You will quickly find that the "great" residency programs in each specialty are the academic powerhouses, the ones that produce the most research and the future department chairs at academic medical centers. If you are more interested in being a private practice dermatologist or ENT or ophthalmologist, etc., then yes going to a Top 20 can help in order to get into those competitive specialties but is by no means necessary. Plenty of private practice docs I've met went to the state med school and then onto very cushy/lucrative careers. You will quickly find that your academic pedigree matters a lot less in medicine than it might in other professions like finance, consulting or law - you won't need to go to a "big name" med school to be successful unless your goal is academics.

I am OOS but have interviews at both UCSF and UCLA. They both explicitly state that they are looking for future leaders in medicine, whether that is in terms of research, policy, teaching, community service, etc. UCSF in particular is looking for students who want to practice medicine through the lens of social justice. It seems like most of the students from UCLA and UCSF either go into primary care to serve the citizens of California or go onto academic powerhouse programs. As an OOS student, it will be difficult to break into these schools if you 1) don't have any significant connection to California and 2) do not want to do academics or cannot show significant leadership in one of those previously listed domains.

Whatever your personal experiences with medicine are, I would advise that you find some volunteering or leadership opportunities related to them. It will help a lot in terms of crafting a compelling narrative of "why medicine" - having some experience that made you interested and then turning that interest into activity and leadership demonstrates that you can also walk the walk. For example, if your experiences were about taking care of your grandma with dementia, then majoring in neuroscience, doing research on neurodegenerative diseases, volunteering in a nursing home, etc. all with demonstrable excellence, would be an excellent narrative and put you in a good position for success at the top med schools.

I was defining a great residency program as the best in respective specialties. I am partial to EM right now, which I have heard is not the most competitive specialty. However, I am definitely not completely committed to EM; I want to keep an open mind when I attend medical school. That being said, I do want the school I attend to have strong match results regarding which specialty I pursue.

I do believe I am on a solid path to creating a good narrative for myself (I have been following my interests thus far, which are definitely related to my own motivations for pursuing a medical career). I will work hard to further excel in these areas! And the independent research I am hoping to pursue will actually have a direct relationship with social justice issues.

Thank you for the advice again! And best of luck with the interview process!

 

[16mlep]

Many top medical schools emphasize research, as well as most of the UCs, but even among its peers, UCSF is a tremendously research intensive institution. Research is obviously not absolutely required, but most of the applicants you will be competing with will have strong research backgrounds of some sort (e.g. a few years working in a lab, an abstract, some may have pubs, etc.). Attending a top 20 school does not necessarily mean that you need to pursue academic medicine, but the top residencies also greatly emphasize research as well -- which feeds back to many of the research-inclusive mission statements of the top 10-15 medical schools. Other parts of your application (e.g. clinical/non-clinical volunteering) will need to be strong enough to offset any lack of research at the top institutions.

Regardless of your plans as a pre-med, if you want to attend a top residency (which you mentioned as a goal of yours), many doctors, including those who no longer publish, will tell you that research is important.

Going off of what a previous poster said earlier, finding a narrative in your application is often important -- but so is showing it in your application. You can say "x/y/z are my goals in medicine," but if you include research as one of those goals, do you have anything to back it up?

Many top medical schools emphasize research, as well as most of the UCs, but even among its peers, UCSF is a tremendously research intensive institution. Research is obviously not absolutely required, but most of the applicants you will be competing with will have strong research backgrounds of some sort (e.g. a few years working in a lab, an abstract, some may have pubs, etc.). Attending a top 20 school does not necessarily mean that you need to pursue academic medicine, but the top residencies also greatly emphasize research as well -- which feeds back to many of the research-inclusive mission statements of the top 10-15 medical schools. Other parts of your application (e.g. clinical/non-clinical volunteering) will need to be strong enough to offset any lack of research at the top institutions.

Regardless of your plans as a pre-med, if you want to attend a top residency (which you mentioned as a goal of yours), many doctors, including those who no longer publish, will tell you that research is important.

Going off of what a previous poster said earlier, finding a narrative in your application is often important -- but so is showing it in your application. You can say "x/y/z are my goals in medicine," but if you include research as one of those goals, do you have anything to back it up?

Thank you for replying! I will absolutely take this information in consideration as I continue my undergrad and apply to medical schools.