WAMC: What Are My Chances

[Sir_Drew97]

For me, the biggest predictor of success for completing a PhD is demonstrated previous engagement and contribution to original, peer reviewed scholarship.

I'm unfamiliar with the programs you applied to but general expectations can range anywhere from 1st/2nd authorship in high impact journals to 3rd/4th author poster contributions.

If you have none of the above, I wouldn't count on a funded offer this cycle since much of your competition will.

The schools I had applied to are in some of the responses above.

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[littlemanjones]

Hi all,

I’m new here so if I’ve posted in the wrong place I’m sorry.

I wanted your opinion as to how I stack up as an applicant for a PhD in clinical psych. I completed my undergraduate degree in neuroscience with a 3.19 GPA (3.44 psych). I then did a masters in public health at a top ten and graduated with a 3.48. I have 2 years of undergraduate research experience with 1 publication and another 3 years of research experience at Harvard. I am also a director at a mental health non-profit based out of the #1 psychiatry department in the country. I have one chapter publication there and over 20 lectures and presentations that I’ve given. I have not yet taken the GRE.

In undergrad I was diagnosed with a severe illness and two of my grandparents died, this is why my grades are so low. In my masters program I was assaulted twice and was dealing with severe PTSD. I feel like I could have done much better at school had these things not happened.

Do you think I have a shot at applying? What can I do to enhance my application?

Thanks!

 

[DrClinPsyAdvice]

The 2021 version of Mitch's Uncensored Guide is now available here: http://mitch.web.unc.edu/files/2017/02/MitchGradSchoolAdvice.pdf

 

[summerbabe]

I have 2 years of undergraduate research experience with 1 publication and another 3 years of research experience at Harvard......I have one chapter publication there and over 20 lectures and presentations that I’ve given.

Was this in psychology or in other fields? Research experience or output in a different field is a positive but a funded PhD program will likely want to see successful output in psychology journals, conferences, etc to demonstrate that you'll likely continue to be successful in meeting PhD program requirements.

Overall, quality and relevant research experiences and good PI/program fit can definitely overcome factors like lower GPA. But if your previous experiences were only in neuroscience and public health, you may need to gain additional experiences to be competitive. Good luck!

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

Hi all,

I’m new here so if I’ve posted in the wrong place I’m sorry.

I wanted your opinion as to how I stack up as an applicant for a PhD in clinical psych. I completed my undergraduate degree in neuroscience with a 3.19 GPA (3.44 psych). I then did a masters in public health at a top ten and graduated with a 3.48. I have 2 years of undergraduate research experience with 1 publication and another 3 years of research experience at Harvard. I am also a director at a mental health non-profit based out of the #1 psychiatry department in the country. I have one chapter publication there and over 20 lectures and presentations that I’ve given. I have not yet taken the GRE.

In undergrad I was diagnosed with a severe illness and two of my grandparents died, this is why my grades are so low. In my masters program I was assaulted twice and was dealing with severe PTSD. I feel like I could have done much better at school had these things not happened.

Do you think I have a shot at applying? What can I do to enhance my application?

Thanks!

Great input. I suggest expanding your school list as well. I ran into some similar issues pertaining my GPA but currently aiming at both top tier programs and as well as solid ones from the lower tier. I agree with expanding your broad knowledge in psychology...are you interested in Neuropsychology or Neuroscience as your track in the program?, if so, then your prior experiences definitely helps. Just expand a little more on research interests.

 

[pameladactyl]

Hello all,

Has anyone ever made the jump into a clinical psychology MS or PhD program from a non-psychology background? My bachelor's degrees are in business administration and religion, and I have completed a post-baccalaureate certificate program in psychology. But I am feeling really discouraged even just trying to apply to master's programs.

On a related note, why are so many psychology master's programs online, and are online programs any good?

Thank you,

Pam

 

[psych.meout]

Hello all,

Has anyone ever made the jump into a clinical psychology MS or PhD program from a non-psychology background? My bachelor's degrees are in business administration and religion, and I have completed a post-baccalaureate certificate program in psychology. But I am feeling really discouraged even just trying to apply to master's programs.

On a related note, why are so many psychology master's programs online, and are online programs any good?

Thank you,

Pam

If you've done the post-bacc and gotten all of the prerequisite coursework out of the way and you have a good cGPA, then all that's really needed is research experience, which you can get without a terminal master's program.

 

[summerbabe]

Has anyone ever made the jump into a clinical psychology MS or PhD program from a non-psychology background? My bachelor's degrees are in business administration and religion, and I have completed a post-baccalaureate certificate program in psychology. But I am feeling really discouraged even just trying to apply to master's programs.

I was admitted into a Master's in Counseling program with research emphasis and LPC licensure eligibility coming from a liberal arts background. But I had some relevant work experiences and good stats.

If the goal is to practice as a master's level therapist, check out threads about the MSW degree. If the goal is a PhD, I agree with the suggestion that you can get independent research experience in lieu of a formal program.

On a related note, why are so many psychology master's programs online, and are online programs any good?

Enough people are willing to pay for these degrees to make it worthwhile for the schools running them. Some people need a semi-relevant/random master's degree that can be done as a side project to advance in their profession/workplace but look away if you want to do anything clinical or academic in this field.

 

[Koanshark]

So, I've lurked on and off on this forum since last year, but don't feel like I know much. But what I do know is what I want to do, and I'm a bit afraid to ask what my chances are to do it.

Undergrad GPA: 3.30 (BA Music)
Grad GPA: 3.95 (MS Psychology)

I graduated from that music program in 2010, and my MS in Psychology degree is from SNHU online. I've been working in journalism/writing since 2012, so no real relevant work experience and almost no research experience to speak of. I do facilitate a support group for NAMI, but that's volunteer work, and I don't have any real clinical experience at all.

What are my chances of even getting into a PsyD or PhD program in clinical psychology? I want to be a psychotherapist, or work in mental health in some capacity, but I fear the reality may be sobering. Barring that, what stands in the way of becoming an LPC, for example? Any feedback or advice would be super appreciated!

Note: I haven't taken the GRE yet, but I have been preparing for it, and am aware that even with waivers I will probably do both the general and the psych subject versions and try to do my best. I'm looking for clinically or research-related jobs I could do to help my chances, but not sure how viable an MS in Psych will be for securing a job like that.

 

[summerbabe]

What are my chances of even getting into a PsyD or PhD program in clinical psychology?

If you're willing to spend $150,000+ pre-interest on student loans, there's probably a PsyD program out there that would be happy to cash your checks.

I want to be a psychotherapist, or work in mental health in some capacity, but I fear the reality may be sobering. Barring that, what stands in the way of becoming an LPC, for example?

There are probably 3 pathways for clinical work;
1. Psychology tech or bachelor's level counselor type clinical positions (e.g., addictions) that come with limited upward mobility and job tasks due to a lack of license but likely easily obtainable if there are local facilities and you can pass a background check and piss test.
2. Complete a licensure-eligible master's level program. Sucks that you already did the SNHU MS but you'd likely be a strong candidate with your previous grad level success, volunteer experiences, statement of purpose and pre-reqs. I would recommend looking into the MSW program at your local state university, rather than LPC, LMHC, or LMFT programs, and you'd qualify for a wide range of psychotherapy or MH case management job.
3. Gain research experience (volunteering or paid RA), learn the ropes, and get attached to publications with that lab and boost your CV to become competitive for a funded PhD program. However, there is zero need to get a PhD or PsyD to work in mental health so make sure you have career goals that actually require a PhD/PsyD before embarking due to the necessary prep, time commitment, and financial sacrifices (even if you get into a fully funded program) required.

Good luck!

 

[Koanshark]

If you're willing to spend $150,000+ pre-interest on student loans, there's probably a PsyD program out there that would be happy to cash your checks.

There are probably 3 pathways for clinical work;
1. Psychology tech or bachelor's level counselor type clinical positions (e.g., addictions) that come with limited upward mobility and job tasks due to a lack of license but likely easily obtainable if there are local facilities and you can pass a background check and piss test.
2. Complete a licensure-eligible master's level program. Sucks that you already did the SNHU MS but you'd likely be a strong candidate with your previous grad level success, volunteer experiences, statement of purpose and pre-reqs. I would recommend looking into the MSW program at your local state university, rather than LPC, LMHC, or LMFT programs, and you'd qualify for a wide range of psychotherapy or MH case management job.
3. Gain research experience (volunteering or paid RA), learn the ropes, and get attached to publications with that lab and boost your CV to become competitive for a funded PhD program. However, there is zero need to get a PhD or PsyD to work in mental health so make sure you have career goals that actually require a PhD/PsyD before embarking due to the necessary prep, time commitment, and financial sacrifices (even if you get into a fully funded program) required.

Good luck!

Thanks for your feedback! I really appreciate it.

 

[pameladactyl]

If you've done the post-bacc and gotten all of the prerequisite coursework out of the way and you have a good cGPA, then all that's really needed is research experience, which you can get without a terminal master's program.

Thank you!

 

[pameladactyl]

I was admitted into a Master's in Counseling program with research emphasis and LPC licensure eligibility coming from a liberal arts background. But I had some relevant work experiences and good stats.

If the goal is to practice as a master's level therapist, check out threads about the MSW degree. If the goal is a PhD, I agree with the suggestion that you can get independent research experience in lieu of a formal program.

Enough people are willing to pay for these degrees to make it worthwhile for the schools running them. Some people need a semi-relevant/random master's degree that can be done as a side project to advance in their profession/workplace but look away if you want to do anything clinical or academic in this field.

Thank you! Definitely trying to get that research experience, but most in my area seem reserved for the universities' students.

Pam

 

[summerbabe]

Thank you! Definitely trying to get that research experience, but most in my area seem reserved for the universities' students.

Given that COVID has a lot of labs operating mostly or fully virtually, you can definitely try looking outside of your local area and see if there's a good fit. Good luck!

 

[ceo723]

Hi! I am considering applying to Ph.D. programs in Clinical Psychology. I am really nervous to take this risk especially with how competitive the programs are so I am hoping to receive some feedback on my chances of getting in.

Education:
B.A. in Psychology with a concentration in Child Psychology from Kent State University. GPA was 3.6

Research Experience:
Worked as an undergrad RA in one lab during senior year. Nothing was published, it was more of just reviewing videos and scoring them. This is the area I feel like I am lacking in compared to other candidates

Clinical Experience:
I am currently getting my M.Ed. at Kent State in Clinical Mental Health Counseling to gain my LPC licensure. I completed over 60 direct hours in my practicum and after my internship I will have 250+ hours, so about 300 direct hours in total plus all the indirect. My internship is primarily focused on the treatment of eating disorders, which is what I want to focus on for my research upon being accepted. GPA is currently 3.88 and I am also in the honor society for my program.

GRE:
I have not taken it yet, just in the research of programs phase but will plan to take it even if it is not required.

Letters of Rec:
I have up to 4 solid letters of recommendation. 1 from a prestigious faculty member in my graduate program, 1 from a highly respected psychologist at my job, and possibly 2 from my internship site (the director or my supervisor).

Statement of Purpose:
I have not started this yet, as I stated I am researching programs to start in fall of 2022. My main research interest is in eating disorders and I have battled with one myself since I was a teenager and have been in recovery for almost 2 years. Not sure if this personal experience will help or hurt me?

I was also wondering about my chances of getting into an eating disorder focused program with a faculty member who specializes in it (my number 1 choice currently is Temple) or if I would stand out more in a broader doc program? I really appreciate your time and any feedback is super helpful. Thank you!!!!

 

[psych.meout]

Hi! I am considering applying to Ph.D. programs in Clinical Psychology. I am really nervous to take this risk especially with how competitive the programs are so I am hoping to receive some feedback on my chances of getting in.

Education:
B.A. in Psychology with a concentration in Child Psychology from Kent State University. GPA was 3.6

Research Experience:
Worked as an undergrad RA in one lab during senior year. Nothing was published, it was more of just reviewing videos and scoring them. This is the area I feel like I am lacking in compared to other candidates

You need substantially more research experience, both in quantity and quality.

Statement of Purpose:
I have not started this yet, as I stated I am researching programs to start in fall of 2022. My main research interest is in eating disorders and I have battled with one myself since I was a teenager and have been in recovery for almost 2 years. Not sure if this personal experience will help or hurt me?

I was also wondering about my chances of getting into an eating disorder focused program with a faculty member who specializes in it (my number 1 choice currently is Temple) or if I would stand out more in a broader doc program? I really appreciate your time and any feedback is super helpful. Thank you!!!!

Do not mention your own mental health issues in any of your application materials or when interviewing for programs. It's inappropriate excessive self-disclosure.

https://psychology.unl.edu/psichi/Graduate_School_Application_Kisses_of_Death.pdf

 

[summerbabe]

Hi! I am considering applying to Ph.D. programs in Clinical Psychology. I am really nervous to take this risk especially with how competitive the programs are so I am hoping to receive some feedback on my chances of getting in.

What are your goals for the PhD that you won't be able to accomplish with the LPC? Especially since you will have a license and experience working with eating disorders, programs may want to know even more why you want/need a more advanced degree.

I definitely agree that you'll need substantially more research experience as your competition will have lab, research design, and publication experience. And ditto on not self-disclosing. "Me-search" is definitely a thing in our field but having appropriate professional boundaries is paramount during the application process. Good luck!

 

[ceo723]

What are your goals for the PhD that you won't be able to accomplish with the LPC? Especially since you will have a license and experience working with eating disorders, programs may want to know even more why you want/need a more advanced degree.

I definitely agree that you'll need substantially more research experience as your competition will have lab, research design, and publication experience. And ditto on not self-disclosing. "Me-search" is definitely a thing in our field but having appropriate professional boundaries is paramount during the application process. Good luck!

Thank you for your feedback! Thinking long-term, I would like to teach and also just do more research in the eating disorders community because it is so underrepresented. Eventually I would also like to start my own practice and even though I can do that with an LPC, obtaining a doctorate has always been my biggest goal.

 

[PsycIntern2021]

Thank you for your feedback! Thinking long-term, I would like to teach and also just do more research in the eating disorders community because it is so underrepresented. Eventually I would also like to start my own practice and even though I can do that with an LPC, obtaining a doctorate has always been my biggest goal.

Hi! Eating disorder researcher here. I would suggest that if you really want a PhD in a lab that focuses on eating disorders that you first do a part-time (20 hours per week) or full-time research post-bacc at an eating disorder institution to be competitive. If you want to be in Philly, Drexel has an excellent post-bacc. The average successful candidate applying specifically to ED PIs usually has several peer-reviewed publications (including a first author at least under review), and several posters presented at national conferences. For some reason, the eating disorder field requires more pubs than most for entry. There are definitely some labs that you could apply to with less but they aren't necessarily fully funded. Good luck!

 

[ceo723]

Hi! Eating disorder researcher here. I would suggest that if you really want a PhD in a lab that focuses on eating disorders that you first do a part-time (20 hours per week) or full-time research post-bacc at an eating disorder institution to be competitive. If you want to be in Philly, Drexel has an excellent post-bacc. The average successful candidate applying specifically to ED PIs usually has several peer-reviewed publications (including a first author at least under review), and several posters presented at national conferences. For some reason, the eating disorder field requires more pubs than most for entry. There are definitely some labs that you could apply to with less but they aren't necessarily fully funded. Good luck!

This is super helpful and I really appreciate your feedback. Do you have any suggestions on things I can be doing now to get more research? I'm currently in Cleveland, Ohio and there are a ton of universities around me with research labs but only a couple are eating disorder focused. I've seen other posts where getting any kind of research is better than nothing but wasn't sure if that applied to this as well. Thank you!

 

[PsycIntern2021]

This is super helpful and I really appreciate your feedback. Do you have any suggestions on things I can be doing now to get more research? I'm currently in Cleveland, Ohio and there are a ton of universities around me with research labs but only a couple are eating disorder focused. I've seen other posts where getting any kind of research is better than nothing but wasn't sure if that applied to this as well. Thank you!

Yes, I would definitely say any research is better than nothing - choose a lab that you find interesting and work toward developing your skills. Both quality and quantity are important, simply because it takes time to build research skills. Then, later on, you can look for a more eating disorder focused lab in another region for a post-bacc, if that is feasible for you. Otherwise, I have definitely seen some successful applicants who have worked in solely non-ED labs (with all other relevant qualifications), but they had really solid reasons for it (i.e., geographical restraints, as you are describing - eating disorder labs are few and far between!). Just be prepared to defend why you want to work in eating disorders specifically in your application.

 

[Redpancreas]

-Canadian International looking into Clinical Psychology Ph.D. APA programs.
-GPA with Psych GPA 3.7, cGPA 3.6 with major in Psychology and Medical Sciences, Minor in French
-Recently earned an Applied Clinical Research Certificate with a capstone project.
-GRE-319, 159 QUANT, 160 VERBAL
-Clinical Experience: 1 year as a psychometrist and extensive clinical experience as a case manager at a memory clinic (MMSE, MOCA, Trails, BNT, CDR, and a million others). Her research experience counts as clinical experience as well.
-Research Experience: 1.75 years as a Research Assistant/Interventionist at a top Canadian research hospital. Her involvement involves implementing the clinical evaluation and intervention (transcranial doppler stuff) with 6 patients a day with MCI/depression, teaching them a bunch of cognitive remediation stuff. She also does database management through REDCAP, cleans EEG data with MATLAB, and is responsible for the REB (IRB equivalent) for most two major clinical studies. She also does a ton of work with data in SPSS.
-Other: Designed and facilitated a Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction program at her prior workplace.
-Research Publications: ZERO. We keep talking about how she needs to change this. She has currently been working on a meta-analysis for something related to her work but it has been going very slow. I keep telling her that if she's doing all this work for two studies her name should be on all these papers but she says it's not that simple.

This is for my girlfriend applying to Ph.Ds in Clinical Psychology in the US for the second straight year. I quoted a post from last November for continuity. Last cycle she applied to 4 places last year (Michigan, WUSTL, PSU, ex) based on ?fit but was rejected at all of them. Part of the reason she applied to so few was she was shy to ask her LORs to submit applications to so many places but now I told her about Interfolio. I updated a post from November (previous cycle). I am doing internal medicine residency in the Michigan/OH area and we're looking to stay relatively close (she's currently based in Toronto) so she's focusing on programs within a 2 HR driving radius as well as anywhere else she think she may be a good fit. I have some questions.

1.) How much research experience does she exactly need? If this meta-analysis falls through does that increase her chances dramatically? I feel like the publication process is super frustrating. She is doing most the work for these projects but she as the RA does not get her name on them but her RM does.
2.) Would she benefit from a Masters in Psychology first? How exactly would this benefit her if her course work is decent, she has clinical experience, etc.
3.) What do you think are her chances of getting in this year? This year we're applying to way more places and while we will look at fit, we want to stay open to any opportunities available to her.

@Pritycool

 

[summerbabe]

anywhere else she think she may be a good fit

How is she defining good fit? Having helped review applications and interview when I was in school, applicants and program definitions of good fit can vary.

How much research experience does she exactly need? If this meta-analysis falls through does that increase her chances dramatically?

If she's applying to funded R1 programs, she might need more than a meta-analysis. Programs will want to engagement with original research since that's predictive of successfully completing a thesis and dissertation. And the more productive her PI, the stronger the CV.

She is doing most the work for these projects but she as the RA does not get her name on them but her RM does.

Define 'work' - some studies require a lot of gruntwork. But generally speaking, that won't get you onto a paper, which is all about assisting in defining research questions, determining appropriate methods and statistical analyses, and interpreting results.

Would she benefit from a Masters in Psychology first? How exactly would this benefit her if her course work is decent, she has clinical experience, etc.

Her clinical experiences are solid, as are stats. I'd probably recommend looking into another RA position where she and the PI have discussed how she can contribute to lab publications rather than a program.

And unfortunately, generally more research-heavy a program will place less emphasis on clinical experience for admissions.

 

[PsyDHopeful2022]

Hi everyone!
I am hoping to apply to a PsyD (NOT PhD) in Clinical Psychology with a start date of Fall 2022. I want to apply to some MA programs in Counseling Psychology as well as a backup, in case I am more eligible for those. My ultimate goal is a PsyD though, so I would prefer to go straight for that if possible. I am worried I'm not a competitive candidate right now.

I would have until Nov. or Dec. to apply, so I want to see what I can do to bolster my application in that time. I'm currently in the Bay Area, CA, and don't have too much flexibility with moving due to family circumstances. The schools I am currently interested in are:

PsyD: University of San Francisco, The Wright Institute (Berkeley), Palo Alto University/Stanford PGSP Consortium, Chicago School of Professional Psychology, Los Angeles, Pacific University, Oregon

MA in Counseling Psychology: Santa Clara University, Variety of online programs - are there any which are considered credible?

Education: B.A. in Psychology from UC Davis, Undergrad GPA - 3.33, Psych GPA - 3.42. Are these close to where I need to be for a PsyD application?

Research experience: None. I don't know how important this is for a PsyD program as it isn't as research-focused as a PhD?

Clinical Experience: 6 mo. ABA experience with children on the autism spectrum, 1.5 yrs elementary teaching experience. I have experience volunteering in an elderly care home but that was before undergrad, so not sure if that's relevant anymore. I am planning on volunteering for a crisis center, or potentially returning to ABA to rack up more clinical experience. Any other suggestions?

GRE: Haven't taken it yet but I will probably take a class ahead of time to prepare. I score decently on standardized tests but haven't taken one since the SAT. How much did y'all prep? Was it challenging?

LOR: I have two past supervisors/bosses from my teaching position who will write me glowing letters of rec. I do not have any past professors who could write me a letter. This is one of the reasons I want to either return to ABA for the time-being, or work at a crisis center, so I have someone to write me a LOR who is in the field.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I know I'm not too strong of a candidate right now, so any tips on how to boost my applications in the next 6 months would be awesome. I very passionately want to pursue this path no matter what it takes, so I'm shooting as high as I can right now. I'm also considering completing a post-bacc if that would help. Thank you so much for reading!

 

[summerbabe]

Research experience: None. I don't know how important this is for a PsyD program as it isn't as research-focused as a PhD?

I can't speak to the specific admissions criteria for the programs you listed. But in general, research experience and tangible proof of research productivity is one of the best indicators for successfully completing a doctorate program. Many of us in the field likely know wonderful people who are talented clinicians but either couldn't get into a doctorate program or couldn't complete their doctorate program due to research skill/competency-related barriers.

Even the least research-oriented PsyD program will require at a minimum, a completed dissertation, to graduate. And the inability to produce an independent dissertation project that passes committee review will prevent somebody from graduating.

A question to ask yourself is why do you want a doctorate? The vast majority of clinicians working in mental health do not have a doctorate so those who pursue one (whether or PhD or PsyD) should have some level of interest and commitment towards the science that drives our work. And the best way to demonstrate that interest/commitment is involvement in research-related activities before grad school. I'm in a 100% clinical role now but remain engaged in consuming literature to inform my clinical work.

Wright admits 60+ every year so it's possible that somebody without any research experience could get in (again, I have zero direct info on their criteria). But after getting in, that student will likely be at a disadvantage and need to 'catch up'. At a bare minimum, it will require more effort. But it could also eventually mean spending longer enrolled (and paying more tuition) or in a worst case scenario, not graduating due to being able to meet research-related requirements.

MA in Counseling Psychology: Santa Clara University, Variety of online programs - are there any which are considered credible?

Stay as far away as possible from any online degree. Period. A former professor of mine is now at Santa Clara. I thought they were competent so that probably bodes well for that program. But spending private school tuition $$$ for a mid-level clinical degree (as well as taking massive loans for a PsyD) is quite likely a poor financial choice, unless you're already fantastically wealthy.

 

[WisNeuro]

Research experience: None. I don't know how important this is for a PsyD program as it isn't as research-focused as a PhD?

Reputable PsyDs have similar research requirements to balanced and clinically focused PhDs. The PsyD = clinical, PhD = research idea is a myth.

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

I have like 12 programs for PhD in clinical psych (1 PsyD) and my head is already spinning....

 

[Dazen]

I have like 12 programs for PhD in clinical psych (1 PsyD) and my head is already spinning....

That’s a very reasonable number to start with, and you could potentially even look for a few more! That number will likely go down based on what professors are accepting students next year, so it depends on the total number you want to apply to.

 

[Mason_Ost]

Hello everyone. I am considering applying to Ph.D/Psy.D programs in Clinical Psychology. I applied for the 2020-2021 application cycle and received two offers (Oklahoma University PsyD and Augsburg University -formerly Minnesota School of Professional Psychology) and was waitlisted by both of Midwestern's PsyD programs. I only applied to one PhD program and was rejected. I am very likely not going to accept either of those offers, but may consider Midwestern if they offer it.

I am more interested now in pursuing a PhD over a PsyD if possible though for next years cycle.

Education:
B.A. in Psychology with a cum GPA of 3.402 and Psych GPA of 3.687 (A's in all research courses/stats and clinical such as Abnormal Psych and Behavioral Neuropsychology

Research Experience:
Was a TA for one year for our research lab, oversaw 30+ individual's research work and progress. Did one group research project (unpublish) for a semester and am currently working on a manuscript set for potential publication (first author) that should be completing within a couple months at most.

Clinical Experience:
I work currently as a Community Based Rehabilitative Service worker (CBRS) formerly known as PST, so I have some exposure in the mental health field and also am a certified Pharmacy Technician (so I have a pretty solid understanding of the use of SSRIs SSNRIs) which I believe is important to know extensively about in any field of psychology.

GRE:
Took it once last year, did not study AT ALL. V(58th) Q(46th) AW(82nd) percentile(s). Plan on studying hard and taking it at least twice for the upcoming 2021-2022 cycle

Letters of Rec:
I have three solid letters of recommendation. 1 from a prestigious faculty member in my undergraduate who is a clinical psychologist, 1 from a highly respected I/O psychologist at my university, and one from the head Pharmacist that I work for (professional career, not sure if this is a good letter or not).

Statement of Purpose:
Really solid in my estimation, but will brush up significantly for the next application cycle.



What do you guys think I need to improve/ what do you think realistically my chances of getting into a PhD program next year? Should I consider applying to MA programs as well just in case? I am also open to the idea of Counseling Psych PhDs and anticipate applying to at minimum 10-15 programs.

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

That’s a very reasonable number to start with, and you could potentially even look for a few more! That number will likely go down based on what professors are accepting students next year, so it depends on the total number you want to apply to.

Yeah my list can easily go up to 15 schools so far.... I already did an initial screening of the faculty and programs that fit me...maybe it will narrow down once I get to know who is taking in students and who is not...


Does anyone know if listing more faculty members jots a higher chance of getting admitted? or does listing just one will be more advantageous to chances? - just a question popped in my head!

 

[Mason_Ost]

Does anyone know if listing more faculty members jots a higher chance of getting admitted? or does listing just one will be more advantageous to chances? - just a question popped in my head!

I'm also curious about this.

 

[Dazen]

Yeah my list can easily go up to 15 schools so far.... I already did an initial screening of the faculty and programs that fit me...maybe it will narrow down once I get to know who is taking in students and who is not...


Does anyone know if listing more faculty members jots a higher chance of getting admitted? or does listing just one will be more advantageous to chances? - just a question popped in my head!

If there are multiple faculty members who you are legitimately interested in working with and do similar enough research that applying to both doesn’t make you look unfocused, then it’s fine. I don’t think listing one or multiple in itself will significantly change your chances as long as you’re applying to each prof and school based on research fit.

 

[jdawg2017]

If there are multiple faculty members who you are legitimately interested in working with and do similar enough research that applying to both doesn’t make you look unfocused, then it’s fine. I don’t think listing one or multiple in itself will significantly change your chances as long as you’re applying to each prof and school based on research fit.

I agree with this point. As long as it's relevant to your line of interests and not random, I think that is fine.

Hello everyone. I am considering applying to Ph.D/Psy.D programs in Clinical Psychology. I applied for the 2020-2021 application cycle and received two offers (Oklahoma University PsyD and Augsburg University -formerly Minnesota School of Professional Psychology) and was waitlisted by both of Midwestern's PsyD programs. I only applied to one PhD program and was rejected. I am very likely not going to accept either of those offers, but may consider Midwestern if they offer it.

I am more interested now in pursuing a PhD over a PsyD if possible though for next years cycle.

Education:
B.A. in Psychology with a cum GPA of 3.402 and Psych GPA of 3.687 (A's in all research courses/stats and clinical such as Abnormal Psych and Behavioral Neuropsychology

Research Experience:
Was a TA for one year for our research lab, oversaw 30+ individual's research work and progress. Did one group research project (unpublish) for a semester and am currently working on a manuscript set for potential publication (first author) that should be completing within a couple months at most.

Clinical Experience:
I work currently as a Community Based Rehabilitative Service worker (CBRS) formerly known as PST, so I have some exposure in the mental health field and also am a certified Pharmacy Technician (so I have a pretty solid understanding of the use of SSRIs SSNRIs) which I believe is important to know extensively about in any field of psychology.

GRE:
Took it once last year, did not study AT ALL. V(58th) Q(46th) AW(82nd) percentile(s). Plan on studying hard and taking it at least twice for the upcoming 2021-2022 cycle

Letters of Rec:
I have three solid letters of recommendation. 1 from a prestigious faculty member in my undergraduate who is a clinical psychologist, 1 from a highly respected I/O psychologist at my university, and one from the head Pharmacist that I work for (professional career, not sure if this is a good letter or not).

Statement of Purpose:
Really solid in my estimation, but will brush up significantly for the next application cycle.



What do you guys think I need to improve/ what do you think realistically my chances of getting into a PhD program next year? Should I consider applying to MA programs as well just in case? I am also open to the idea of Counseling Psych PhDs and anticipate applying to at minimum 10-15 programs.

My two cents on this are as follows.

(1) Improve your GRE score if you are applying to programs which require it; a generally safe bet is getting a score close to 160 V/160 Q. The GRE is used really only as a screening measure to get your application to be further considered.

(2) Get that manuscript that you are first author on published, ideally in a respectable journal in your field. Is this study relevant to the work you want to do in the future? You want to spin it as connected in your statement of purpose.

(3) I would maybe see if you can get a strong letter from another clinical psych faculty member, if any come to mind. The pharmacist is probably not as relevant of a writer, but if they are telling you they are writing a strong letter for you vs. another faculty member who doesn't really know you, I would stay with the strong letter of reference from the psychologist.

 

[Mason_Ost]

My two cents on this are as follows.

(1) Improve your GRE score if you are applying to programs which require it; a generally safe bet is getting a score close to 160 V/160 Q. The GRE is used really only as a screening measure to get your application to be further considered.

(2) Get that manuscript that you are first author on published, ideally in a respectable journal in your field. Is this study relevant to the work you want to do in the future? You want to spin it as connected in your statement of purpose.

(3) I would maybe see if you can get a strong letter from another clinical psych faculty member, if any come to mind. The pharmacist is probably not as relevant of a writer, but if they are telling you they are writing a strong letter for you vs. another faculty member who doesn't really know you, I would stay with the strong letter of reference from the psychologist.

Thank you. I am hoping that if I purchase MAGOOSH's 3-6 month program, I could increase my score enough to be considered competitive.

Hopefully I can get the manuscript published somewhere. The study is mildly relevant to my research interests (which frankly I am trying remain open-minded with), in that it is focused on cognitive fallacies in decision making.

Did you mean to say, "stay with the strong letter of reference from the pharmacist?" - I am not fully confident that I would be able to receive a letter from another psych faculty member, but I could try.

 

[jdawg2017]

Thank you. I am hoping that if I purchase MAGOOSH's 3-6 month program, I could increase my score enough to be considered competitive.

Hopefully I can get the manuscript published somewhere. The study is mildly relevant to my research interests (which frankly I am trying remain open-minded with), in that it is focused on cognitive fallacies in decision making.

Did you mean to say, "stay with the strong letter of reference from the pharmacist?" - I am not fully confident that I would be able to receive a letter from another psych faculty member, but I could try.

Yes - I meant to say a strong letter from the pharmacist is better than a no strong or neutral letter from a psych prof. It's relevance, though, to clinical psychology may be a bit tangential, so you may want to discuss with them how to make their connection to you relevant for future clinical psych training work.

 

[Mason_Ost]

Hello everyone. I am considering applying to Ph.D/Psy.D programs in Clinical Psychology. I applied for the 2020-2021 application cycle and received two offers (Oklahoma University PsyD and Augsburg University -formerly Minnesota School of Professional Psychology) and was waitlisted by both of Midwestern's PsyD programs. I only applied to one PhD program and was rejected. I am very likely not going to accept either of those offers, but may consider Midwestern if they offer it.

I am more interested now in pursuing a PhD over a PsyD if possible though for next years cycle.

Education:
B.A. in Psychology with a cum GPA of 3.402 and Psych GPA of 3.687 (A's in all research courses/stats and clinical such as Abnormal Psych and Behavioral Neuropsychology

Research Experience:
Was a TA for one year for our research lab, oversaw 30+ individual's research work and progress. Did one group research project (unpublish) for a semester and am currently working on a manuscript set for potential publication (first author) that should be completing within a couple months at most.

Clinical Experience:
I work currently as a Community Based Rehabilitative Service worker (CBRS) formerly known as PST, so I have some exposure in the mental health field and also am a certified Pharmacy Technician (so I have a pretty solid understanding of the use of SSRIs SSNRIs) which I believe is important to know extensively about in any field of psychology.

GRE:
Took it once last year, did not study AT ALL. V(58th) Q(46th) AW(82nd) percentile(s). Plan on studying hard and taking it at least twice for the upcoming 2021-2022 cycle

Letters of Rec:
I have three solid letters of recommendation. 1 from a prestigious faculty member in my undergraduate who is a clinical psychologist, 1 from a highly respected I/O psychologist at my university, and one from the head Pharmacist that I work for (professional career, not sure if this is a good letter or not).

Statement of Purpose:
Really solid in my estimation, but will brush up significantly for the next application cycle.



What do you guys think I need to improve/ what do you think realistically my chances of getting into a PhD program next year? Should I consider applying to MA programs as well just in case? I am also open to the idea of Counseling Psych PhDs and anticipate applying to at minimum 10-15 programs.

Hoping to get a few more replies on this. Could someone speak to how they perceive my GPA to effect my chances as well?

Thank you all!!

 

[Dazen]

Hoping to get a few more replies on this. Could someone speak to how they perceive my GPA to effect my chances as well?

Thank you all!!

Answering your GPA question here since it’s about your chances. IMO your GPA is high enough for most potential advisors to consider the strength of your full application (mine was in a similar range). I’d work to get your GRE up or to apply to schools that aren’t requiring the GRE - unsure what that’s going to look like next year. Shoot for 160+ on both if possible, especially considering your (comparatively) lower GPA. The biggest concern I’d have is your research experience. Having a first author publication in a reputable journal would significantly strengthen your application. I don’t think your current experience without that publication is enough at funded programs.

 

[Mason_Ost]

Answering your GPA question here since it’s about your chances. IMO your GPA is high enough for most potential advisors to consider the strength of your full application (mine was in a similar range). I’d work to get your GRE up or to apply to schools that aren’t requiring the GRE - unsure what that’s going to look like next year. Shoot for 160+ on both if possible, especially considering your (comparatively) lower GPA. The biggest concern I’d have is your research experience. Having a first author publication in a reputable journal would significantly strengthen your application. I don’t think your current experience without that publication is enough at funded programs.

Would working as a TA for my research course be considered a form of RA experience? I was helping the professor gather/analyze data, coordinate research topics, edit student projects, etc... Would spinning my TAing experience in this manner help my research experience competence?

Thank you for your comments about my GPA. That does make me feel better. I will have 5 months of studying for the GRE to hopefully attain at least that score.

 

[Jadestar]

GRE:
V-158 (79th percentile)
Q-153 (48th percentile)
Analytical-4.5 (80th percentile)

Undergrad GPA:
B.S. Earth Science
2.9

Post-Bacc GPA:
B.S. Psychology w/ neuro emphasis
3.8

Graduate GPA:
M.S. Healthcare Administration
4.0

Volunteer experience:
4 years, Crisis Lines
4 years, NW Noggin Neuroscience Outreach
2 years, Trauma Intervention Program (TIP)
2 years, Neuropsychology Teaching Assistant

Work experience:
2 years, Assistant Director of Crisis Lines Prevention Programs Department... mostly systems work
- Applied Suicide Intervention Skills (ASIST) Trainer
- Question, Persuade, Refer (QPR) Trainer
- interim postvention response coordinator (state contract)
- lead coordinator for the 2019 statewide Veteran & Military Suicide Prevention Conference
- strategic planning and logistical support for the Construction Industry Suicide Prevention Task Force/Partnership
- strategic planning to reduce substance abuse in four counties (state contract)
- project manager for Military Cultural Awareness and Suicide Prevention Training for providers (state contract)
- Etc: grant writing, project management, logistical support, training nexus, DEI initiatives, staff wellness initiatives

Memberships:
Society for Neuroscience
Project Management Institute
Filipino-American Association

I'd like to pursue a doctorate. I've worked mostly in crisis, so would like to widen my skillset to include trauma, grief, moral injury, racial inequity, DV, and kiddos. No research background here.

I'm down to go anywhere in the US.

Where should I apply?

Thank you!

 

[Dazen]

Would working as a TA for my research course be considered a form of RA experience? I was helping the professor gather/analyze data, coordinate research topics, edit student projects, etc... Would spinning my TAing experience in this manner help my research experience competence?

Thank you for your comments about my GPA. That does make me feel better. I will have 5 months of studying for the GRE to hopefully attain at least that score.

It could help, especially if you focus on learning about research topic development and data analysis, but I doubt the majority of professors will strongly consider it. I would recommend getting more experience as an RA in a lab, either as a job or as a volunteer if that's feasible for you. Because of COVID, many labs are still open to remote RAs, which could expand your possibilities. Let the labs know that you are interested in applying for doctoral programs and discuss up front with them what you would like to gain from your experience (e.g. study design, analyzing data). You'll still need to help the lab with their most relevant needs, but are more likely to also get your goals met.

For the GRE, take as many prior tests as you can. The format is incredibly consistent, so once you become familiar with what has been asked and how to answer, it will likely significantly increase your score.

 

[Dazen]

GRE:
V-158 (79th percentile)
Q-153 (48th percentile)
Analytical-4.5 (80th percentile)

Undergrad GPA:
B.S. Earth Science
2.9

Post-Bacc GPA:
B.S. Psychology w/ neuro emphasis
3.8

Graduate GPA:
M.S. Healthcare Administration
4.0

Volunteer experience:
4 years, Crisis Lines
4 years, NW Noggin Neuroscience Outreach
2 years, Trauma Intervention Program (TIP)
2 years, Neuropsychology Teaching Assistant

Work experience:
2 years, Assistant Director of Crisis Lines Prevention Programs Department... mostly systems work
- Applied Suicide Intervention Skills (ASIST) Trainer
- Question, Persuade, Refer (QPR) Trainer
- interim postvention response coordinator (state contract)
- lead coordinator for the 2019 statewide Veteran & Military Suicide Prevention Conference
- strategic planning and logistical support for the Construction Industry Suicide Prevention Task Force/Partnership
- strategic planning to reduce substance abuse in four counties (state contract)
- project manager for Military Cultural Awareness and Suicide Prevention Training for providers (state contract)
- Etc: grant writing, project management, logistical support, training nexus, DEI initiatives, staff wellness initiatives

Memberships:
Society for Neuroscience
Project Management Institute
Filipino-American Association

I'd like to pursue a doctorate. I've worked mostly in crisis, so would like to widen my skillset to include trauma, grief, moral injury, racial inequity, DV, and kiddos. No research background here.

I'm down to go anywhere in the US.

Where should I apply?

Thank you!

What are you hoping to do as a career long term? What makes you interested in pursuing a doctoral degree? You won't be competitive for funded doctoral programs without any research experience. Research is also a main component of these programs, so I'd caution against deciding to pursue a doctorate without first knowing from first-hand experience whether you enjoy research.

 

[summerbabe]

I'd like to pursue a doctorate. I've worked mostly in crisis, so would like to widen my skillset to include trauma, grief, moral injury, racial inequity, DV, and kiddos. No research background here.

Seems like you've been putting in work and gained some cool experiences!

Without any research experience, you'll be limited to self-pay PsyDs and potentially not the ones with the best track record for professional success (e.g., ability to pass the EPPP/licensure, receiving quality training/supervision).

Have you flushed out the full financial commitment of a PsyD? Lots of recent threads and plenty more in the archives. I personally wouldn't do it but I would hope that those who pursue this path know what they are getting into and how this financial decision will have enormous long-standing consequences.

There are also plenty of ways to gain these types of clinical experiences without a doctorate since you seem very clinically focused, including much cheaper programs such as the MSW degree.

What would you like your day-to-day look like in your future career? Seems like you've done a lot of administrative stuff in the past. Do you want that to continue? Or move into a part admin/part clinical role? Or see patients in direct clinical care for 22-30 hours weekly?

 

[Jadestar]

Seems like you've been putting in work and gained some cool experiences!

Without any research experience, you'll be limited to self-pay PsyDs and potentially not the ones with the best track record for professional success (e.g., ability to pass the EPPP/licensure, receiving quality training/supervision).

Have you flushed out the full financial commitment of a PsyD? Lots of recent threads and plenty more in the archives. I personally wouldn't do it but I would hope that those who pursue this path know what they are getting into and how this financial decision will have enormous long-standing consequences.

There are also plenty of ways to gain these types of clinical experiences without a doctorate since you seem very clinically focused, including much cheaper programs such as the MSW degree.

What would you like your day-to-day look like in your future career? Seems like you've done a lot of administrative stuff in the past. Do you want that to continue? Or move into a part admin/part clinical role? Or see patients in direct clinical care for 22-30 hours weekly?

What are you hoping to do as a career long term? What makes you interested in pursuing a doctoral degree? You won't be competitive for funded doctoral programs without any research experience. Research is also a main component of these programs, so I'd caution against deciding to pursue a doctorate without first knowing from first-hand experience whether you enjoy research.

Thank you both for your replies. One of my friends with a PsyD is the suicide prevention coordinator for a large hospital and university in our state (18k staff + 5k students), but she sees clients one-on-one at the institution as well. Ideally, I would like to do a combination of systems-level work and direct service clinical work whether I am working at one organization doing both, or at the director level and seeing clients in private practice on the side. It has also been one of my dreams to work on a mobile crisis team, which I hear in California, requires a doctorate. Also interested in neuro assessment as ancillary financial sustainability. In my current role, I find that it's doing one without the other burns me out more easily. Doing direct service on the crisis lines while also engaging in systems work seems to be a good balance for me.

I figured, with my non-existent research background, I would be turning to PsyD programs and understand that I will have to fork over the money. I respect and acknowledge the importance of leveraging best-practice research and possible viable solutions for evidence-based treatment, and I enjoy attending the Society for Neuroscience conference to reflect on how upcoming research can apply to systems and direct service work, especially at the state level. However, I cannot see myself making research a priority. While looking over the forums, I've also seen others highlight that having a research background for a clinical psych PhD isn't necessarily true, so was not sure if I should consider PhD programs as an option for myself.

I have considered an MSW (quite a few of my coworkers- and my own therapist- are MSWs); my personal key points to having the doctorate are the assessment piece, teaching, and as a turnkey for more opportunities and upward mobility through the director/C-level.

 

[Dazen]

Thank you both for your replies. One of my friends with a PsyD is the suicide prevention coordinator for a large hospital and university in our state (18k staff + 5k students), but she sees clients one-on-one at the institution as well. Ideally, I would like to do a combination of systems-level work and direct service clinical work whether I am working at one organization doing both, or at the director level and seeing clients in private practice on the side. It has also been one of my dreams to work on a mobile crisis team, which I hear in California, requires a doctorate. Also interested in neuro assessment as ancillary financial sustainability. In my current role, I find that it's doing one without the other burns me out more easily. Doing direct service on the crisis lines while also engaging in systems work seems to be a good balance for me.

I figured, with my non-existent research background, I would be turning to PsyD programs and understand that I will have to fork over the money. I respect and acknowledge the importance of leveraging best-practice research and possible viable solutions for evidence-based treatment, and I enjoy attending the Society for Neuroscience conference to reflect on how upcoming research can apply to systems and direct service work, especially at the state level. However, I cannot see myself making research a priority. While looking over the forums, I've also seen others highlight that having a research background for a clinical psych PhD isn't necessarily true, so was not sure if I should consider PhD programs as an option for myself.

I have considered an MSW (quite a few of my coworkers- and my own therapist- are MSWs); my personal key points to having the doctorate are the assessment piece, teaching, and as a turnkey for more opportunities and upward mobility through the director/C-level.

I'm going to let others who are more knowledgeable chime in about your goals (I'm an incoming doctoral student), but it sounds like you have some great direction and ideas! I'd also suggest looking at a DSW to pursue a combination of therapy and systems-level work. Good luck!!

 

[HopefulPsych21]

Hey everyone - applying to Clinical PhD (one PsyD) this fall and would love advice to see if I‘m competitive. I’m really working hard to ensure that I get in somewhere this cycle. I’m going to keep this as vague as possible.

Education:
B.S. in Psychology
GPA: 3.82
Psych GPA: 3.92
Upward trend GPA; 4.0 my entire last year.

Research Experience:
- Undergrad RA in a lab under a clinical psychologist. 3 posters accepted and presented at good conferences. Working on a publication from our data to be published hopefully later this year (second author). I am still actively volunteering in the lab, been in this lab for 2.5 years.
- Current full time Research Coordinator at a well known children’s hospital (not under psychologists but working on psychologically based projects). No idea if I’ll get a publication or presentation before the application cycle begins but I’ve gotten really good experience with everything else research related. Started April 2021.
- Shadowed Pediatric Neuropsychologists at a children’s hospital for 6 months, stopped because of COVID (didn’t really do research, more test data collection and interpretation, but it is relevant because I want to practice neuropsychology).

GRE:
Bad. Can’t afford to retake. Hoping most schools do away with the requirement moving forward.

Letters of Rec:
One from clinical psychologist, one from pediatric neuropsychologist, one up in the air... not sure if I want to ask the MD that I work under for a letter of rec. If not, I’d have another from the department chair of my undergrad psychology department.

Research Interests:
My research Interests are really specific but I would like to integrate pediatric health psychology with neuropsychology (I want to work with & study children in the medical population).

Other Info:
Not sure if this is really relevant? Tutored for a semester, was in Psi Chi, deans list, departmental awards, etc.

What should I improve? Is my chance of getting into a program with a neuropsychology focus hopeless? I’m aiming to apply to programs that are scientist-practitioner programs, rather than clinical science.

Thanks in advance everyone.

 

[summerbabe]

One of my friends with a PsyD is the suicide prevention coordinator for a large hospital and university in our state (18k staff + 5k students), but she sees clients one-on-one at the institution as well. Ideally, I would like to do a combination of systems-level work and direct service clinical work whether I am working at one organization doing both, or at the director level and seeing clients in private practice on the side.

I have trained/worked in 4 VA systems and besides 1 psychologist, everybody else I knew in these roles were LCSWs. There's nothing inherently more specialized about a psychologist's training when it comes to suicide/risk IMO.

It has also been one of my dreams to work on a mobile crisis team, which I hear in California, requires a doctorate.

Since you work/worked in the crisis field, I'd recommend reaching out to confirm whether this is indeed true (my suspicion is that this isn't the case but CA does indeed have a lot of rules/regs). And then figuring out typical salaries as you could very well be looking at $1500-2000/mo in student loans (to pay off aggressively in 15-20 years) or payments that could reach into retirement years.

Also interested in neuro assessment as ancillary financial sustainability.

There are definitely psychologists who offer assessment heavy/only practices but if you aren't a board certified neuropsychologist with a minimum of 2 more dedicated years of training, I'd be wary of what you're able to offer, especially since you'd likely be getting referrals from neurologists and such.

Every psychologist is trained to administer tests but I've definitely seen people who appeared to be practicing outside the scope of their competence when it came to interpretation/synthesis, especially when it comes to really important quality of life stuff (e.g., can somebody with cognitive impairment live independently with a reasonable degree of success?).

Additionally, this probably isn't the best financial venture due to upfront costs in securing the appropriate testing materials/licensing fees. It's a different equation if you want to run a psychodiagnostic-based assessment practice but I'm sure that has its own challenges as well. Generally speaking, the folks I know who do stuff outside their 9-5 tend to do therapy.

Doing direct service on the crisis lines while also engaging in systems work seems to be a good balance for me.

Every area/organization is different but generally speaking, psychologists are often utilized in direct service roles that aren't well-suited for non-PhDs (e.g., providing evidence-based therapy protocols) or move into organizational management roles, sometimes with some direct care and sometimes not. And the general trend is that if something can be done by an MS or BS, it will be.

While looking over the forums, I've also seen others highlight that having a research background for a clinical psych PhD isn't necessarily true, so was not sure if I should consider PhD programs as an option for myself.

For funded clinical psych PhDs, research experience is 100% necessary. I think there are a handful self-pay clinical psych PhD program so maybe their requirements are different.

However, I cannot see myself making research a priority.

I have a PhD. I haven't done an ounce of original research since I graduated but that research foundation majorly informs my work, especially when I'm doing something new. From my professional experience, 95%+ of psychologists that I know take a similar view.

I have considered an MSW (quite a few of my coworkers- and my own therapist- are MSWs); my personal key points to having the doctorate are the assessment piece, teaching, and as a turnkey for more opportunities and upward mobility through the director/C-level.

My general thoughts are that a PhD can help but doesn't necessarily provide upward mobility. I know plenty of LCSWs who hold advanced managerial roles. One thing to potentially consider is that the additional time spent in grad school is time not spent working within (and hopefully impressing) an organization and becoming involved in admin stuff. Good luck!

 

[summerbabe]

Research Experience:

Looks like you'll be able to put together a competitive research CV so I'd really focus on fit with programs/PIs that you'll apply to.

not sure if I want to ask the MD that I work under for a letter of rec. If not, I’d have another from the department chair of my undergrad psychology department.

Some MDs write terrible letters of rec and some write good ones. If they know you well and will take the time to draft something professional and can speak to qualities that make you a good PhD student, that could be a good letter. Perhaps you and the MD can have a conversation about their lec letter style and what they might be able to speak to?

Is my chance of getting into a program with a neuropsychology focus hopeless?

Are you speaking to programs with productive academic neuropsychologists on staff or places that market a neuropsych track? To widen your scope, you can look for larger metros with multiple local hospitals (flagship academic medical centers, VA hospitals) that have neuropsych internship and postdoc programs as they will likely have programs for practicum students and possible research databases for use on future projects. Good luck!

 

[Jadestar]

I have trained/worked in 4 VA systems and besides 1 psychologist, everybody else I knew in these roles were LCSWs. There's nothing inherently more specialized about a psychologist's training when it comes to suicide/risk IMO.

Yes, for the Suicide Prevention Coordinator position at VAs, I agree. I've worked with quite a few SPCs across the state and appreciate the work they do. There is also a SPC under me in our department who is currently working on an MFT degree, so I understand what you're saying about the level of education and training needed for an SPC position. I should have added that my friend is the sole SPC at the hospital-university and engages in more systems-level work in comparison to the VA SPCs.

I'm grateful for your insightful and thorough response. It's certainly given me more to reflect on.

 

[HopefulPsych21]

Looks like you'll be able to put together a competitive research CV so I'd really focus on fit with programs/PIs that you'll apply to.

Some MDs write terrible letters of rec and some write good ones. If they know you well and will take the time to draft something professional and can speak to qualities that make you a good PhD student, that could be a good letter. Perhaps you and the MD can have a conversation about their lec letter style and what they might be able to speak to?

Are you speaking to programs with productive academic neuropsychologists on staff or places that market a neuropsych track? To widen your scope, you can look for larger metros with multiple local hospitals (flagship academic medical centers, VA hospitals) that have neuropsych internship and postdoc programs as they will likely have programs for practicum students and possible research databases for use on future projects. Good luck!

Thanks so much for the info! The MD that I work with is a clinician researcher and we have a good relationship but that’s good to know. I would definitely have a conversation with them if I decide to ask them for a letter of recommendation.
I have been advised that neuropsych “tracks“ are a bit of a gimmick, mainly for marketing purposes. I’m looking for a PI who actively practices neuropsychology and does neuropsychology research. I’m also looking for programs that have neuropsychology externships/practicums and have faculty that are neuropsychologists. I have it narrowed down to a few... however, I think my biggest downfall is that I don’t have direct neuropsychology research experience. Thanks so much for your answer!

 

[summerbabe]

I’m also looking for programs that have neuropsychology externships/practicums

This is really key because while some programs have department-run training clinics (even then, many are therapy-focused or provide a limited selection of assessment offerings), the majority/entirety of your clinical training will occur outside of your program.

However, programs that have successfully produced board certified neuropsychologists likely have good pre-existing relationships with local neuropsychs who enjoy working with trainees. It's not impossible to 'create' your own practicum experience but it's a lot more effort to identify/vet local neuropsychs not already involved in training who will provide a good training experience and orient them to your program's expectations for practicum.

Having a neuropsychologist on faculty is ideal and will likely allow you to more easily do a neuro-related dissertation, which is great for internship/postdoc but given disparities between academic pay and clinical pay (as well as job responsibilities like teaching that may not appeal to some), if you can't find that, it's far from the end of the world.

But if that's the case, going to a program with good relationships with the local neuropsych community si really important and something you should ask during interview day and reaching out to current/former students. I know multiple people who have gone this route and were able to do neuro training and research through their local VA/AMC/private practice.

Additionally, my program was rural-ish and it would be pretty much impossible to get these types of experiences.

I think my biggest downfall is that I don’t have direct neuropsychology research experience.

I'm not a neuro person but I honestly don't know how many people go into PhD programs with this already under their belt, partially because a not insignificant number of people develop neuropsych interest while in their PhD programs. If your current RC and former RA roles were even somewhat related to broad topics of neuropsych interest, I think you can probably find a way to spin that into relevant experience/future directions.