waiting on disability and life insurance

[rkaz]

Hi all. I recently heard that I should get disability and life insurance prior to graduating from fellowship (as I just started my final year of fellowship, though may consider doing an extra one-year fellowship following this). My concern is that I don't think I will qualify for insurance at this time, as I have extra weight to lose. (My BMI is currently 36, and although I've been exercising 4-5 times weekly for the last 1.5 year, I still need to fix my diet, which I recently started getting help with. I am making changes.) Anyway, I don't really have any other chronic health issues at this time. I have used my health insurance provided in residency to cover dental appointments and for therapy appointments. I've been seeing a physician who provides therapy throughout residency. A few years ago, I was briefly trialed on Bupropion and stimulant for possible ADHD, although I never continued any of these for more than a few months. I hope this won't count against me, as I've rarely been on any medications in my life, and this was over 3 years ago. My doctor has my diagnosis as something very benign like "adjustment disorder", so I am hoping this won't be any huge issue either to get full coverage. I was mostly seeing someone for therapy to get some extra support through residency, and not because I have any major mental health concerns.

I'm in my mid/late 30s, currently single, no kids (although I am dating someone who is a genuinely decent person with potential. So a possibility of a family in a few years. Maybe).

I'm meeting with an insurance salesperson from Northwestern Mutual this week. I'm wondering if I should just hold off at this time, and look into applying for disability and life insurance in spring 2020 (a few months before fellowship graduation), after I've lost 50 pounds to be at a normal weight for my height and hopefully qualify for a good deal. I've also been reading on these forums that many of you prefer Principal, Guardian, etc for specialty-specific coverage. Thank you!

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[anonperson]

Hi all. I recently heard that I should get disability and life insurance prior to graduating from fellowship (as I just started my final year of fellowship, though may consider doing an extra one-year fellowship following this). My concern is that I don't think I will qualify for insurance at this time, as I have extra weight to lose. (My BMI is currently 36, and although I've been exercising 4-5 times weekly for the last 1.5 year, I still need to fix my diet, which I recently started getting help with. I am making changes.) Anyway, I don't really have any other chronic health issues at this time. I have used my health insurance provided in residency to cover dental appointments and for therapy appointments. I've been seeing a physician who provides therapy throughout residency. A few years ago, I was briefly trialed on Bupropion and stimulant for possible ADHD, although I never continued any of these for more than a few months. I hope this won't count against me, as I've rarely been on any medications in my life, and this was over 3 years ago. My doctor has my diagnosis as something very benign like "adjustment disorder", so I am hoping this won't be any huge issue either to get full coverage. I was mostly seeing someone for therapy to get some extra support through residency, and not because I have any major mental health concerns.

I'm in my mid/late 30s, currently single, no kids (although I am dating someone who is a genuinely decent person with potential. So a possibility of a family in a few years. Maybe).

I'm meeting with an insurance salesperson from Northwestern Mutual this week. I'm wondering if I should just hold off at this time, and look into applying for disability and life insurance in spring 2020 (a few months before fellowship graduation), after I've lost 50 pounds to be at a normal weight for my height and hopefully qualify for a good deal. I've also been reading on these forums that many of you prefer Principal, Guardian, etc for specialty-specific coverage. Thank you!

Generally, life and disability insurance will go up in price.

I know you said you will lose 50 lbs but that is not a guarantee.

For term life insurance, it shouldn't be too bad. Plus you can always get underwritten for a new policy and cancel the other.

I got a term $2 million policy in fellowship. After a year or two, I got another term policy due to homeownership etc. My newer policy was a bit more expensive even though I was just as healthy. You're age going up is reason enough to increase the rate.

 

[rkaz]

Thank you! I will certainly ask about term life insurance. Maybe I can get the life insurance now, and try to get the disability insurance in some months, after I call around and see which places may be more flexible about weight cut offs. Do you generally recommend having life insurance and disability insurance from the same company?

Thanks for sharing your experience with term life insurance. It's good to know that I can update in future after I get a home. I'll have to look into this.

 

[Raryn]

Thank you! I will certainly ask about term life insurance. Maybe I can get the life insurance now, and try to get the disability insurance in some months, after I call around and see which places may be more flexible about weight cut offs. Do you generally recommend having life insurance and disability insurance from the same company?

Thanks for sharing your experience with term life insurance. It's good to know that I can update in future after I get a home. I'll have to look into this.

TERM4SALE | Term Life Insurance Quotes - Free & Unbiased - 100 companies lets you search basically every life insurance company putting out term policies. Just input a few different weights and see what numbers you get.

 

[RangerBob]

Unfortunately for disability insurance, everything that can be counted against you will. I had sprained my wrist (very minor sprain) four years prior and Guardian wanted to exclude any future issue with my entire arm-so if I ever got carpal tunnel syndrome, had a traumatic amputation, etc, it would all be excluded. Some of the other policies were more forgiving, but they all found their own issues.

One thing you could do is get a policy now. In a few years, if you do lose weight, you could apply for a new policy to see if you can get better rates. As mentioned above, rates go up with age typically, so that could offset the gains from losing weight. In addition, who knows what other things could happen in the ensuing years (any doctor visit you have could be used again at you, and if you develop a major illness/disease that will send rates up quite a bit)

In encourage you to get quotes from multiple companies. Northwestern agents sell Northwestern policies (and independent agents can’t sell Northwestern policies), so talk with an independent agent as well to get quotes from a few other companies.

 

[Ironspy]

There’s no guarantee that you’ll lose the weight and in the meantime will become older and could become uninsurable. You can’t get disability insurance while pregnant until you return to work for some time. If you are diagnosed with gestational diabetes that’s $$. I was and I’m thin. I saw a therapist for one year and all psych is excluded in my policy. I ditched my NW policy bc it had a worse disability definition and was more expensive. Also, many insurances won’t make you get an exam during training so that’s another reason to get it done ASAP

 

[Groove]

Unfortunately for disability insurance, everything that can be counted against you will. I had sprained my wrist (very minor sprain) four years prior and Guardian wanted to exclude any future issue with my entire arm-so if I ever got carpal tunnel syndrome, had a traumatic amputation, etc, it would all be excluded. Some of the other policies were more forgiving, but they all found their own issues.

One thing you could do is get a policy now. In a few years, if you do lose weight, you could apply for a new policy to see if you can get better rates. As mentioned above, rates go up with age typically, so that could offset the gains from losing weight. In addition, who knows what other things could happen in the ensuing years (any doctor visit you have could be used again at you, and if you develop a major illness/disease that will send rates up quite a bit)

In encourage you to get quotes from multiple companies. Northwestern agents sell Northwestern policies (and independent agents can’t sell Northwestern policies), so talk with an independent agent as well to get quotes from a few other companies.

Haha, I got a similar rider when I took out my disability insurance. I had a hx of cervical ADR and they excluded anything even remotely neck related. I asked my disability insurance guy one time about the most common disability with physicians (imaging CVA or MI, hemiplegia, heinous injuries, etc..) and he said it was actually low back pain.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Is there something magical about the rate that one gets as a July 1st attending vs as a June 30th resident/fellow? I've heard from multiple people "get disability and life insurance before you graduate residency and premiums go up!!". Like are these things in anyway income related?

Sorry to piggy back but figured it was relevant

 

[Ironspy]

Is there something magical about the rate that one gets as a July 1st attending vs as a June 30th resident/fellow? I've heard from multiple people "get disability and life insurance before you graduate residency and premiums go up!!". Like are these things in anyway income related?

Sorry to piggy back but figured it was relevant

There’s no physical exam in training which is the main benefit. Less hassle and lower chance they will find something to justify a higher rate

 

[evilbooyaa]

There’s no physical exam in training which is the main benefit. Less hassle and lower chance they will find something to justify a higher rate

Good to know. I agree that a lack of physical exam will likely help.

 

[rkaz]

Thank you all for your very helpful responses. They have definitely motivated me on the need to actively get his going forward. I'll still talk to the NWM person since I have a phone appointment, although I have also booked a session with an independent agent that other physicians have recommended. I'm hoping the independent agent won't have vested interests (other than wanting to sell me something), and can actually find a plan that fits me best.

 

[mvenus929]

Is there something magical about the rate that one gets as a July 1st attending vs as a June 30th resident/fellow? I've heard from multiple people "get disability and life insurance before you graduate residency and premiums go up!!". Like are these things in anyway income related?

Sorry to piggy back but figured it was relevant

There are often “deals” you can get by still being in training. Things like gender neutral pricing' maybe a deal associated with the institution you work with, etc. But the underwriting process takes months, so this isn’t something that you should put off til June of the year you graduate.

Thank you all for your very helpful responses. They have definitely motivated me on the need to actively get his going forward. I'll still talk to the NWM person since I have a phone appointment, although I have also booked a session with an independent agent that other physicians have recommended. I'm hoping the independent agent won't have vested interests (other than wanting to sell me something), and can actually find a plan that fits me best.

Northwest Mutual is the worst. Their disability insurance is not true own occupation (which may not be relevant if you’re in primary care, but is more important with surgery or radiology or pathology where certain disabilities could mean you can’t do your job, but could still theoretically work as a physician in some capacity). They are also super pushy as agents. Asking for referrals after the first meeting, emailing and or calling forever...

 

[Groove]

Is there something magical about the rate that one gets as a July 1st attending vs as a June 30th resident/fellow? I've heard from multiple people "get disability and life insurance before you graduate residency and premiums go up!!". Like are these things in anyway income related?

Sorry to piggy back but figured it was relevant

I think there was a 30% discount for us in residency that would follow over upon graduation. My advice would be to do your research on the various disability insurance carriers (I'm mass mutual) and find the local agent and see if you quality for any discounts. Take out the smallest amount while you're in residency and you can always increase it upon graduation when you are making more money. Mine is pricier than it was for many of my co-residents (I was older) and I think I pay....let me pull it up and tell you....$693.71/mo (16.5K/mo benefit). Not cheap! But much easier for me to afford as an attending versus a resident.

 

[dpmd]

If you are a member of a specialty society also check into plans they offer. Through mine, for life insurance it only cares if you smoke or not. Disability was very discounted from other policies I looked at.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Good to know @mvenus929 about the underwriting process taking months. Guess I'll start looking after the new year.

 

[shahseh22]

I'm totally new to this but I know my parents had gotten life insurance for us when we were younger. I've been generally healthy and I was wondering what would be cost for disability insurance roughly speaking?

How much more expensive would it be to get it after residency? I'm asking because my future spouse may be able to get a better rate through their employer.

 

[Smurfette]

I'm totally new to this but I know my parents had gotten life insurance for us when we were younger. I've been generally healthy and I was wondering what would be cost for disability insurance roughly speaking?

How much more expensive would it be to get it after residency? I'm asking because my future spouse may be able to get a better rate through their employer.

The rates slowly go up as you age and vary due to perceived risks related to multiple factors.
As far as disability policies, you want a stand alone policy that you can take with you if you change jobs. Most policies through employers don't work that way. Also, as a physician, you would need a specialty-specific policy and not a generic disability policy. For example, if a surgeon has a hand injury and is able to work but can't operate, the disability insurance would kick in since the physician can no longer work in their own field.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Also, as a physician, you would need a specialty-specific policy and not a generic disability policy. For example, if a surgeon has a hand injury and is able to work but can't operate, the disability insurance would kick in since the physician can no longer work in their own field.

This is true, and specialty-specific policies also let you go work elsewhere while collecting as long as it isn’t your specialty. So you could teach at the medical school/college/JC or do urgent care work, for example. These pay much less than a physician job but is a nice way to supplement if you have something like a hand injury, for example.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

This is true, and specialty-specific policies also let you go work elsewhere while collecting as long as it isn’t your specialty.

This is true of the "better" policies...but not universal. It's one of the reasons Northwestern's product should be avoided. At least when I looked a few years back, they pro-rated the benefit based on salary in your new job.

 

[Raryn]

The rates slowly go up as you age and vary due to perceived risks related to multiple factors.
As far as disability policies, you want a stand alone policy that you can take with you if you change jobs. Most policies through employers don't work that way. Also, as a physician, you would need a specialty-specific policy and not a generic disability policy. For example, if a surgeon has a hand injury and is able to work but can't operate, the disability insurance would kick in since the physician can no longer work in their own field.

Specialty specific being important really depends on your specialty. I can't think of too many injuries that would stop me from practicing my specialty that wouldn't also preclude me working at all - I don't do any procedures.

I suppose if I lost my hands and couldn't type progress notes... But then I could always dictate.

 

[MD Financial Services Scott]

Is there something magical about the rate that one gets as a July 1st attending vs as a June 30th resident/fellow? I've heard from multiple people "get disability and life insurance before you graduate residency and premiums go up!!". Like are these things in anyway income related?

Sorry to piggy back but figured it was relevant

We can typically get a resident/fellow discount of an extra 10% for up to 90 or 120 days post the finishing of training but many reps will tell you that it changes July 1 to try and create action on your part sooner.

 

[MD Financial Services Scott]

I'm totally new to this but I know my parents had gotten life insurance for us when we were younger. I've been generally healthy and I was wondering what would be cost for disability insurance roughly speaking?

How much more expensive would it be to get it after residency? I'm asking because my future spouse may be able to get a better rate through their employer.

If you are in residency and between ages of 28-33 most disability can be bought for about $20-25 per month fixed premium per $1,000 of monthly benefit. Of course there are slight variations for medical specialty, gender and the state you live in.

 

[MD Financial Services Scott]

Specialty specific being important really depends on your specialty. I can't think of too many injuries that would stop me from practicing my specialty that wouldn't also preclude me working at all - I don't do any procedures.

I suppose if I lost my hands and couldn't type progress notes... But then I could always dictate.

You are correct and if you lost your hands then that would be a presumptive disability on most contracts so the carrier would assume you are disabled even if you are still in your specialty so you know.