Am thinking of applying for a cardiology fellowship..am a US citizen, IMG (from a top 5 UK medical school) with some research (abstracts, 1 manuscript). What should my USMLE scores be to be a competitive applicant and at least get through the initial screening process. Thanks in advance
USMLE scores needed to get interviews/match
- Thread starter docgemini
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It depends on the reputation of your IM program and your letters of recommendation.
To be honest, USMLE scores aren't very important at the fellowship level.
To be honest, USMLE scores aren't very important at the fellowship level.
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most fellowship programs don't even ask for your score report so that tells you that they don't use it for so-called screening '
I have seen a poll sometime ago where fellowship directors said that the number one criterion they used for choosing a candidate was " a letter from a doctor/colleague they know" I think USMLE scores where 6th or 7th something like that
so that tells that the whole fellowship selection process is based on word of mouth and connections. there is no objective way to select candidates on their clinical merits.
the rate at which universities take internal candidates is high .... and the saying that your best chances are at your local university , if they have a fellowship , is true .
I have seen a poll sometime ago where fellowship directors said that the number one criterion they used for choosing a candidate was " a letter from a doctor/colleague they know" I think USMLE scores where 6th or 7th something like that
so that tells that the whole fellowship selection process is based on word of mouth and connections. there is no objective way to select candidates on their clinical merits.
the rate at which universities take internal candidates is high .... and the saying that your best chances are at your local university , if they have a fellowship , is true .
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I agree with all of the above...the numbers aren't as important as they are for residency. But I also think that throughout the process PD's tend to downplay their reliance on the scores in order to personalize the process, while in fact I think that they do use them as a screen a lot more than they say they do. There are always exceptions, and these scores are most definetely less important. But if you want a number I would guess that 220s won't hurt you...
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I think I agree with bonza.
I think that given the OP is a FMG, some of the programs may be more curious about his UMSLE scores. They definitely do NOT play a similar role to the one they play in getting into residency, however.
There are quite a few cards fellowships that do not even ask for your USMLE scores, so that tells you that some programs do not care much. There are programs that do request that you send them, in which case you can assume they are going to be used for screening. If you have a good USMLE score, like 230+, that could be to your advantage.
I agree that connections and LOR's are most important. Cardiology is a "who you know" type of field. We can debate all day whether that is right or not, but it is what it is.
I think that given the OP is a FMG, some of the programs may be more curious about his UMSLE scores. They definitely do NOT play a similar role to the one they play in getting into residency, however.
There are quite a few cards fellowships that do not even ask for your USMLE scores, so that tells you that some programs do not care much. There are programs that do request that you send them, in which case you can assume they are going to be used for screening. If you have a good USMLE score, like 230+, that could be to your advantage.
I agree that connections and LOR's are most important. Cardiology is a "who you know" type of field. We can debate all day whether that is right or not, but it is what it is.
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I think board scores are used by many programs for screening as it is seems to be reflective of the knowledge base of that particular applicants,i.e having low board scores or passing with multiple attempts my rule some applicants out during the initial application screening (Filtering) !
on the other hand ,stellar scores are definitely a plus ,we had a meeting with our Cardiology program director last year as an interns ,and he mentioned clearly that the higher the scores the better the chance of ranking during the Match ,of course besides having strong Letters ,few Publications and Good Personality !!
There is NO Where mentioned that Board scores are required for FMG and not needed for US grads ,if a program ask for them (or don't) it would be for every body !!!
My 2 cents
on the other hand ,stellar scores are definitely a plus ,we had a meeting with our Cardiology program director last year as an interns ,and he mentioned clearly that the higher the scores the better the chance of ranking during the Match ,of course besides having strong Letters ,few Publications and Good Personality !!
There is NO Where mentioned that Board scores are required for FMG and not needed for US grads ,if a program ask for them (or don't) it would be for every body !!!
My 2 cents
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I agree - a program will ask for board scores for all applicants, or for none.
However, realistically the programs can guess/ballpark your board scores by the internal medicine residency that you are in (particularly if you are a US grad). In other words, if an applicant is from Harvard or Johns Hopkins IM program, one can assume the person did well in med school and had high USMLE scores also (definitely above average).
Some cardiology programs do not require that you even send them USMLE scores, because they don't care about them much. I think that a lot of these types of programs would not have people with lower board scores even in their pile of people to possibly interview, so they just don't think it's even important to look at board scores. My opinion is that these programs probably have so many applicants with board scores of 225+, they don't even have a need to try to use board scores to differentiate between applicants. At these programs, the low-board-score types would be filtered out by other initial screening (they won't be at a residency program from which that program takes its interviewees, they probably don't have any publications, and their LOR's are probably not that great).
However, there are programs that do look at board scores. In my experience, this group included some medium-competitive type places and even some less competitive ones. I think some of these programs know that there are "diamonds in the rough", so to speak, particularly among FMG and IMG's. I think one of the ways they look for these is to look for the people with the high board scores. I don't have proof of that, but the fact that some program directors even look at board scores suggests this. I found that PD's at a couple of programs I applied to were FMG's themselves did use the board scores, probably for this reason. We all know there are some very smart FMG's at some little-known IM programs, whereas a lot of US grads at those type programs are there because they weren't competitive for the more prominent or cushy IM programs (grade-wise and USMLE-wise).
I think board scores are just one of those things that you should use to your advantage, if you have good ones. If you don't, then maybe look at programs that don't care about your USMLE scores, and if you have other good things in your application that may balance things out. There are places that would care more how many publications you have, or who your LOR's are from...
However, realistically the programs can guess/ballpark your board scores by the internal medicine residency that you are in (particularly if you are a US grad). In other words, if an applicant is from Harvard or Johns Hopkins IM program, one can assume the person did well in med school and had high USMLE scores also (definitely above average).
Some cardiology programs do not require that you even send them USMLE scores, because they don't care about them much. I think that a lot of these types of programs would not have people with lower board scores even in their pile of people to possibly interview, so they just don't think it's even important to look at board scores. My opinion is that these programs probably have so many applicants with board scores of 225+, they don't even have a need to try to use board scores to differentiate between applicants. At these programs, the low-board-score types would be filtered out by other initial screening (they won't be at a residency program from which that program takes its interviewees, they probably don't have any publications, and their LOR's are probably not that great).
However, there are programs that do look at board scores. In my experience, this group included some medium-competitive type places and even some less competitive ones. I think some of these programs know that there are "diamonds in the rough", so to speak, particularly among FMG and IMG's. I think one of the ways they look for these is to look for the people with the high board scores. I don't have proof of that, but the fact that some program directors even look at board scores suggests this. I found that PD's at a couple of programs I applied to were FMG's themselves did use the board scores, probably for this reason. We all know there are some very smart FMG's at some little-known IM programs, whereas a lot of US grads at those type programs are there because they weren't competitive for the more prominent or cushy IM programs (grade-wise and USMLE-wise).
I think board scores are just one of those things that you should use to your advantage, if you have good ones. If you don't, then maybe look at programs that don't care about your USMLE scores, and if you have other good things in your application that may balance things out. There are places that would care more how many publications you have, or who your LOR's are from...
