Right now I'm completely undecided. I'd like to be in a big city (like New York or L.A.), but I also got a great feeling from Pitt as a school, and I think the opportunities available at Penn are endless. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
USC vs. NYU vs. Pitt vs. Penn
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If it helps, Philly is a pretty big city, and New York is only a 10$ bus ticket away. A lot of my classmates go to NYC regularly on the weekends.
Last year, I had been accepted to Pitt and NYU, waitlisted at Penn. I chose Pitt over NYU because of Pitt's resources, and ended up choosing Penn over Pitt due to curriculum and location. It's a personal choice though. I definitely don't regret my decision to come to Penn though
Last year, I had been accepted to Pitt and NYU, waitlisted at Penn. I chose Pitt over NYU because of Pitt's resources, and ended up choosing Penn over Pitt due to curriculum and location. It's a personal choice though. I definitely don't regret my decision to come to Penn though
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Yeah I agree with Textuality and would say Penn>Pitt>NYU.
I don't know anything about CA schools though, so I don't know where USC would fall into place there.
I don't know anything about CA schools though, so I don't know where USC would fall into place there.
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Penn>Pitt>NYU=USC
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I think Pitt would be the best choice comparatively, even vs. Penn, and this is why:
1) Consider the cities you are choosing between from a cost-of-living point of view. Philly, and especially LA and NY, are the most expensive cities in the US- do you really want that burden, and being stuck in a studio for four years, on top of med school costs? Pitt is MUCH cheaper, but unlike smaller and younger cities, boasts a vibrant city life with enough clubs, restaurants, museums, and points of interest that it won't make a difference to a med student who only has time to party between exams. Sure, Pitt is not as fun to visit for your friends- but is that your criterion for choosing your education? Nightlife might seem like fun for now, but already after almost a year of med school I am far more concerned with the price/availability of groceries and buying my own place than having tourist traps down the street or going to the beach.
2) Consider the cities of the schools you are choosing from a CLINICAL point of view. Philly and NYC especially, along with LA have multiple medical centers and are heavily city-based; thus, you will only see urban-style cases and only a subsection of the city based on your territory. At Pitt, with no other medical center for hundreds of miles, you will see an entire city's worth, as well as states' worth around of suburban and rural areas. This is CRUCIAL if you ever want to practice outside of a city, and at this age variety=opportunity.
3) If you are going off of USNWR rankings (NEVER a good idea), then obviously Penn. But since you are still considering these other schools, obviously you are smarter than that. If Pitt gave you a good feeling, why discount that? You know best for yourself- don't discredit that just because a name is better, or another applicant on SDN says so.
Again, I'm not saying that this decision is easy- I waited til the last minute, because I was agonizing over Pitt vs. bigger name schools at bigger cities. However, Pitt is great (and shooting upwards in rankings and popularity) for important, objective reasons, and I hope that by analyzing the information dispassionately, you will see that Pitt is the best choice.
1) Consider the cities you are choosing between from a cost-of-living point of view. Philly, and especially LA and NY, are the most expensive cities in the US- do you really want that burden, and being stuck in a studio for four years, on top of med school costs? Pitt is MUCH cheaper, but unlike smaller and younger cities, boasts a vibrant city life with enough clubs, restaurants, museums, and points of interest that it won't make a difference to a med student who only has time to party between exams. Sure, Pitt is not as fun to visit for your friends- but is that your criterion for choosing your education? Nightlife might seem like fun for now, but already after almost a year of med school I am far more concerned with the price/availability of groceries and buying my own place than having tourist traps down the street or going to the beach.
2) Consider the cities of the schools you are choosing from a CLINICAL point of view. Philly and NYC especially, along with LA have multiple medical centers and are heavily city-based; thus, you will only see urban-style cases and only a subsection of the city based on your territory. At Pitt, with no other medical center for hundreds of miles, you will see an entire city's worth, as well as states' worth around of suburban and rural areas. This is CRUCIAL if you ever want to practice outside of a city, and at this age variety=opportunity.
3) If you are going off of USNWR rankings (NEVER a good idea), then obviously Penn. But since you are still considering these other schools, obviously you are smarter than that. If Pitt gave you a good feeling, why discount that? You know best for yourself- don't discredit that just because a name is better, or another applicant on SDN says so.
Again, I'm not saying that this decision is easy- I waited til the last minute, because I was agonizing over Pitt vs. bigger name schools at bigger cities. However, Pitt is great (and shooting upwards in rankings and popularity) for important, objective reasons, and I hope that by analyzing the information dispassionately, you will see that Pitt is the best choice.
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Smallville, do you know anything about Philly? Calling it "one of the most expensive cities in the US" is a total joke, and in fact, the total opposite of the truth. Philly is one of the most affordable big cities in the country, nowhere near as expensive as NYC, LA, Boston, DC, etc. In fact, housing costs in Philly are pretty comparable to Pittsburgh, which is remarkable given the relative sizes and locations of the two cities.
So, to the OP, don't let cost of living deter you from choosing Penn - I would say that Pitt v. Penn is a draw in that category.
So, to the OP, don't let cost of living deter you from choosing Penn - I would say that Pitt v. Penn is a draw in that category.
Perhaps I'm the only one who wonders whether you are referring to Penn State or U Penn?
If you felt like a good fit at a top tier school like U Penn, I kind of can't fathom considering Pitt or USC (and notice I'm going to USC). If it's Penn State you're talking about then, consider away...I think there's more of a toss-up on reputation between the 3 of them, and then if you felt like a good fit and like you'd be happy at all of them, you're really not going to be hurt by your choice.
Now, regarding NYU. I work at MSSM, and have worked at Columbia and Einstein's med schools prior to going through this whole process. I've met enough profs and students from all of the NY schools to know that I just wouldn't enjoy myself at NYU b/c it's generally more high strung than USC--they're basically on opposite ends of the high-strungedness spectrum, if you will. The only Manhattan school I don't think is totally high strung is MSSM, and that's b/c of its emphasis on teaching. Some of the profs are type A's but some are cuddly bunnies. I really haven't had a good experience with anything/body from Columbia or NYU--people will argue, and some people won't feel it, and if you felt differently when you visited, more power to you. In general, however, that is something that I do think pervades NYC medicine in general--the fast pace and the high intensity. The physicians I work for are really highly regarded, but so are my parents. My parents practice in LA. The demeanor of my parents and like physicians around whom I was raised is totally different and more relaxed than those in Manhattan. Personally, as a somewhat older applicant, I just don't want to be hazed and suffer extra b/c "that's just the way it's done here." So...I'm headed back West. Med school's going to be stressful either way; I'm not going to add more stress on top of it.
Now, one downside of Pitt that I do see, is the patient population. Pitt is an excellent school, and one of our fellows went there--he's gone on to a highly specialized fellowship at my work and is now going tenure-track at JHU...so he definitely coudln't have been too deprived...but the one thing I think of as the benefit of learning in a big city after working here, are all the crazy medical cases I've seen--we see Tuberculosis and Ricketts, and I don't know if you see that in smaller cities. And then, you see more severe cases of diseases. People travel to experts in NYC and LA to get treatment if they have the most severe form of their disease--so if you're learning at a med school there, your profs will have the greatest scope of experiences to share with you and you will see the most interesting things in rotations, which I think is important (1) to help you pick your specialty and (2) to give you the greatest experience in elective rotations you choose that you think are in your specialty. E.G: if I had "shadowed" a GI in Arkansas, I would have thought the field was confined to routine colonoscopies, but working in Manhattan, I've worked with nationally recognized experts and seen the worst-of-the-worst refractory cases of inflammatory bowel disease...when we go to conferences, I realize that I've already seen more than some practicing GI's in smaller cities, and that's quite amazing. I definitely chose to stay in a big city for my education accordingly. Philly is only a slight scale down from NYC (it would be a big hub if it weren't so close to NYC), but it has its own great medical strengths and a huge # of people who commute there for treatment as well.
If you want to do family or rural medicine, I bet Pitt & Penn state have better stuff set up; Pitt probably offers more individualized attention, just guessing...I just don't know that much about either.
You've got some great choices...you can't go wrong
Consider going to at least one of the 2nd looks if you can afford it!
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions--namely about why I chose USC...although I can speak to NYC in general.
Good Luck!
If you felt like a good fit at a top tier school like U Penn, I kind of can't fathom considering Pitt or USC (and notice I'm going to USC). If it's Penn State you're talking about then, consider away...I think there's more of a toss-up on reputation between the 3 of them, and then if you felt like a good fit and like you'd be happy at all of them, you're really not going to be hurt by your choice.
Now, regarding NYU. I work at MSSM, and have worked at Columbia and Einstein's med schools prior to going through this whole process. I've met enough profs and students from all of the NY schools to know that I just wouldn't enjoy myself at NYU b/c it's generally more high strung than USC--they're basically on opposite ends of the high-strungedness spectrum, if you will. The only Manhattan school I don't think is totally high strung is MSSM, and that's b/c of its emphasis on teaching. Some of the profs are type A's but some are cuddly bunnies. I really haven't had a good experience with anything/body from Columbia or NYU--people will argue, and some people won't feel it, and if you felt differently when you visited, more power to you. In general, however, that is something that I do think pervades NYC medicine in general--the fast pace and the high intensity. The physicians I work for are really highly regarded, but so are my parents. My parents practice in LA. The demeanor of my parents and like physicians around whom I was raised is totally different and more relaxed than those in Manhattan. Personally, as a somewhat older applicant, I just don't want to be hazed and suffer extra b/c "that's just the way it's done here." So...I'm headed back West. Med school's going to be stressful either way; I'm not going to add more stress on top of it.
Now, one downside of Pitt that I do see, is the patient population. Pitt is an excellent school, and one of our fellows went there--he's gone on to a highly specialized fellowship at my work and is now going tenure-track at JHU...so he definitely coudln't have been too deprived
...but the one thing I think of as the benefit of learning in a big city after working here, are all the crazy medical cases I've seen--we see Tuberculosis and Ricketts, and I don't know if you see that in smaller cities. And then, you see more severe cases of diseases. People travel to experts in NYC and LA to get treatment if they have the most severe form of their disease--so if you're learning at a med school there, your profs will have the greatest scope of experiences to share with you and you will see the most interesting things in rotations, which I think is important (1) to help you pick your specialty and (2) to give you the greatest experience in elective rotations you choose that you think are in your specialty. E.G: if I had "shadowed" a GI in Arkansas, I would have thought the field was confined to routine colonoscopies, but working in Manhattan, I've worked with nationally recognized experts and seen the worst-of-the-worst refractory cases of inflammatory bowel disease...when we go to conferences, I realize that I've already seen more than some practicing GI's in smaller cities, and that's quite amazing. I definitely chose to stay in a big city for my education accordingly. Philly is only a slight scale down from NYC (it would be a big hub if it weren't so close to NYC), but it has its own great medical strengths and a huge # of people who commute there for treatment as well.If you want to do family or rural medicine, I bet Pitt & Penn state have better stuff set up; Pitt probably offers more individualized attention, just guessing...I just don't know that much about either.
You've got some great choices...you can't go wrong
Consider going to at least one of the 2nd looks if you can afford it!
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions--namely about why I chose USC...although I can speak to NYC in general.
Good Luck!
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Perhaps I'm the only one who wonders whether you are referring to Penn State or U Penn?
If you felt like a good fit at a top tier school like U Penn, I kind of can't fathom considering Pitt or USC (and notice I'm going to USC). If it's Penn State you're talking about then, consider away...I think there's more of a toss-up on reputation between the 3 of them, and then if you felt like a good fit and like you'd be happy at all of them, you're really not going to be hurt by your choice.
Now, regarding NYU. I work at MSSM, and have worked at Columbia and Einstein's med schools prior to going through this whole process. I've met enough profs and students from all of the NY schools to know that I just wouldn't enjoy myself at NYU b/c it's generally more high strung than USC--they're basically on opposite ends of the high-strungedness spectrum, if you will. The only Manhattan school I don't think is totally high strung is MSSM, and that's b/c of its emphasis on teaching. Some of the profs are type A's but some are cuddly bunnies. I really haven't had a good experience with anything/body from Columbia or NYU--people will argue, and some people won't feel it, and if you felt differently when you visited, more power to you. In general, however, that is something that I do think pervades NYC medicine in general--the fast pace and the high intensity. The physicians I work for are really highly regarded, but so are my parents. My parents practice in LA. The demeanor of my parents and like physicians around whom I was raised is totally different and more relaxed than those in Manhattan. Personally, as a somewhat older applicant, I just don't want to be hazed and suffer extra b/c "that's just the way it's done here." So...I'm headed back West. Med school's going to be stressful either way; I'm not going to add more stress on top of it.
Now, one downside of Pitt that I do see, is the patient population. Pitt is an excellent school, and one of our fellows went there--he's gone on to a highly specialized fellowship at my work and is now going tenure-track at JHU...so he definitely coudln't have been too deprived
If you want to do family or rural medicine, I bet Pitt & Penn state have better stuff set up; Pitt probably offers more individualized attention, just guessing...I just don't know that much about either.
You've got some great choices...you can't go wrong
Consider going to at least one of the 2nd looks if you can afford it!
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions--namely about why I chose USC...although I can speak to NYC in general.
Good Luck!
Just wanted to say that I totally agree with your impression of NYU. I worked at most of the NY hospitals (NYU-Bellevue, the Presbyterians- Columbia and Cornell), and NYU had by far the most intense people and the most gunnerish med students (I had to round with them all day and man, they were intense). 2 out of the VERY few gunners I knew in college ended up at NYU. That school's a little terrifying. Columbia and Cornell had the "why, I am an ivy league institution, pray kiss my feet now" attitude a lot, which bugged me to no end, but it wasn't really as intense as NYU.
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To Philly, yes I have been to Philadelphia, and having friends who go to med school in Philly, they definitely pay more for rent/mortgage than I do in Pittsburgh. Yes, Philly is nowhere near as expensive as NYC or LA, but definitely higher than more interior cities. But I apologize if I gave the impression that Philly housing costs=NYC housing costs; def not true!
In reply to the post about NYC- do not judge Pitt so quickly in terms of cases. UPMC- Pitt's medical center- is def not a podunk country medical center, it just has the advantage over NYC schools in having a greater range of cases geographically, and having a bigger hospital network. I was choosing between MSSM and Pitt, and I chose the latter because at MSSM I would only see urban-style and tertiary cases, whereas at Pitt I would still see those but also see rural stuff too. The major cities have the disadvantage of having the clinical populations divided between the med schools, but Pitt has no competition, so you will see everything, from those rare advanced cases to general strokes/pneumonias to ridiculous things like Amish people rolling up in buggies to the ER with farm injuries.
In reply to the post about NYC- do not judge Pitt so quickly in terms of cases. UPMC- Pitt's medical center- is def not a podunk country medical center, it just has the advantage over NYC schools in having a greater range of cases geographically, and having a bigger hospital network. I was choosing between MSSM and Pitt, and I chose the latter because at MSSM I would only see urban-style and tertiary cases, whereas at Pitt I would still see those but also see rural stuff too. The major cities have the disadvantage of having the clinical populations divided between the med schools, but Pitt has no competition, so you will see everything, from those rare advanced cases to general strokes/pneumonias to ridiculous things like Amish people rolling up in buggies to the ER with farm injuries.
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Agree. 1) one of my good friends is coming to Pitt after living in Philly and she's amazed by how much cheaper things are here. 2) we see patients from all over the place! we see the trauma, the medicine associated with city living, rare diseases, lots of transplant stuff (super cool), and we have quite a few Amish patients. I'm very impressed by the variety of patients we have here.
Assuming the tuitions are similar, I'd pick USC>Penn>NYU>Pitt based on location and the fact that USC will treat you more like a resident and let you do more than the other "richer" programs. As the flagship LA County General Hospital, USC has the most exposure to interesting cases. The brand new hospital will be humming when you start clinical rotations and it is easy to do electives at UCLA/Cedars.
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if you want a bigger city, go to penn. penn is, by the numbers, the most prestigious school on your list, but also the one that seems to have the most plentiful opportunities for med students/respect for its med students, that i can tell. philly isn't that expensive either for a major city. pittsburgh isn't hodunky at all, but the cost of living is a bit cheaper for a reason, if you know what i mean.
i'm not sure which nyu med program you guys have had experience with, but i go to nyu and i can tell you i DEFINITELY don't think that we're all that intense. the pass/fail curriculum at nyu inherently makes our curriculum super laid back, and our professors are so chill that we call many of them by their first name. i actually think my class goes out more than any medical school class i've ever heard of. furthermore, the experience you'll get at bellevue is unparalleled and, lets be serious, none of your options compare to nyc. additionally, if you want to really compare manhattan schools, columbia is supposed to be insanely intense, super old school, and is barely in manhattan its so far north. cornell is a very rich school that has grades and i hear medical students are not supposed to touch anyone. and sinai is a great program, but there's no question that it has a smaller name/rep than NYU, and i would hate to get on a bus to go to queens every day when rotating through elmhurst. furthemore, nyu is easily in the best location of the manhattan schools as you're walking distance from the village, time square, msg, etc.
as for philly, i went to undergrad at penn, and philly is not a big city. people like to pretend it is, but its not. if you go to penn, you'll enjoy about a 15 square block area of philly that is the following: west philly (aka university city) where penn campus is, center city where you'll likely want to live, and old city where you'll likely go out. philly is also a pretty awful city to live in. the people there are pretty miserable and rude and it really takes a toll on you over time. that said, penn is a great school but i would be cautious of letting rankings make the choice for you. you need to find the school that fits you personally, not usnews.
i can't speak for usc or pitt, but i am sure they're both excellent schools. the only reason i'm really even posting is because i wanted to dispel this nonsense about nyu being "really gunnerish" which is total bs, and also give you the real scoop on philly - which is that it sucks. that said, best of luck with your choice and let me know if you want to know anymore about nyu.
as for philly, i went to undergrad at penn, and philly is not a big city. people like to pretend it is, but its not. if you go to penn, you'll enjoy about a 15 square block area of philly that is the following: west philly (aka university city) where penn campus is, center city where you'll likely want to live, and old city where you'll likely go out. philly is also a pretty awful city to live in. the people there are pretty miserable and rude and it really takes a toll on you over time. that said, penn is a great school but i would be cautious of letting rankings make the choice for you. you need to find the school that fits you personally, not usnews.
i can't speak for usc or pitt, but i am sure they're both excellent schools. the only reason i'm really even posting is because i wanted to dispel this nonsense about nyu being "really gunnerish" which is total bs, and also give you the real scoop on philly - which is that it sucks. that said, best of luck with your choice and let me know if you want to know anymore about nyu.
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Fighting generalizations and stereotypes by using generalizations and stereotypes. Thats the way to do it.
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Tangent, but I don't understand the people (usually New Yorkers) who are like, "oh, x is not a big city." Philly is the 6th biggest city in America--of COURSE it's a big city.
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