Toxic Programs - Name and Shame

[cryolight123]

Lets start a running list of programs that are known to be toxic. I just matched this year and feel blessed to have gotten the inside scoop from alumni at my school. I found it helpful to know which programs have a bad reputation and thought we could come up with a list to help future applicants now that the stakes are low.

I'll start:

Northwell program in NY: one of my friends knows derm residents at this program and there have been issues with attendings treating residents poorly and residents being singled out and retaliated against when raising concerns. there were weekly meetings where the chair would yell at the residents for raising concerns on an acgme accreditation survey. one of the residents dropped out this year because of it

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[ddcg]

Pretty sure your institution, which pays the highest resident salaries in NY, has mechanisms to support your "friend". G is G and you signed up for him and his show when you matched.

 

[Med6941]

Mount Sinai in NY: residents are pressured to publish research and required to attend seasonal clinical conferences run by the dermatology department (which end up being 3 days long, 12+ hours/day) just so it looks like there is high attendance. From friend in the program, the atmosphere is that you're a commodity to publish/boost the department's reputation and research output. Very hierarchical, don't know your attendings, and speak when spoken to environment. Also heard that you're shamed if you don't contribute to research or refer enough patients to clinical trials.

 

[guytakingboards]

Mount Sinai in NY: residents are pressured to publish research and required to attend seasonal clinical conferences run by the dermatology department (which end up being 3 days long, 12+ hours/day) just so it looks like there is high attendance. From friend in the program, the atmosphere is that you're a commodity to publish/boost the department's reputation and research output. Very hierarchical, don't know your attendings, and speak when spoken to environment. Also heard that you're shamed if you don't contribute to research or refer enough patients to clinical trials.

If the seasonal clinical conferences don't come out of residents leave time and doesn't leave the clinical services woefully under-covered, then that seems like at least like a semi-win. It does sound like long days and is probably redudant if you have to go to several per year or over the course of residency but it's time off from clinical service. Assuming it's material outside dermatologists pay to attend, it's gotta have some value to the trainees.

The research pressure and hierarchy... that's definitely unpleasant.

 

[anesussy]

Pretty sure your institution, which pays the highest resident salaries in NY, has mechanisms to support your "friend". G is G and you signed up for him and his show when you matched.

"You deserve to be abused. You brought this on yourself."

You sound like a freaking psycho, dude.

 

[Dral]

If the seasonal clinical conferences don't come out of residents leave time and doesn't leave the clinical services woefully under-covered, then that seems like at least like a semi-win. It does sound like long days and is probably redudant if you have to go to several per year or over the course of residency but it's time off from clinical service. Assuming it's material outside dermatologists pay to attend, it's gotta have some value to the trainees.

Unless they overlap with or are only on the weekend.

 

[magictouch]

So real question - what does everyone's schedule look like through the year? How many of you are doing 9 (ten??) gen derm clinics a week without academic time, or lack a Mohs surgeon, or dermpath, or peds derm etc? Does it matter in the end?

More meaningfully, what things do you think would make your program better?

 

[Med6941]

It's not time off clinical service if these conferences are consistently on the weekend. Takes time off of weekends for studying or personal matters. Now, when I've been on call during these conferences on the occasion, I'm in/out of the hospital and then back at the conference.

I found this on the derm spreadsheet regarding a research fellow this past year. This should give you a sense of Sinai's culture. I know this to be true since I know of this fellow.

"One of the fellows was contacted by a derm program to sign a contract outside the match, but MS (chairman, PD, and head of research) reassured that she would match at MS and shouldn't accept the offer from another program. this was 1 month before rank list was due. She didn't match anywhere."

 

[Med6941]

 

[Slack3r]

All this aside, Mt. Sinai (or any other “malignant” program) will have absolutely no problem filling their spots.

 

[Med6941]

That's true. The point of this is to just shed light on what the departments are like. It doesn't mean it'll necessarily accomplish anything @Slack3r

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Mount Sinai in NY: residents are pressured to publish research and required to attend seasonal clinical conferences run by the dermatology department (which end up being 3 days long, 12+ hours/day) just so it looks like there is high attendance. From friend in the program, the atmosphere is that you're a commodity to publish/boost the department's reputation and research output. Very hierarchical, don't know your attendings, and speak when spoken to environment. Also heard that you're shamed if you don't contribute to research or refer enough patients to clinical trials.

Genuine question, but what does a Derm resident do on other weekends outside of these conferences? Do you guys get a lot of inpatient consults and have to cover hospital services?

 

[Med6941]

Depends, if I'm working at the main hospital on the UES then call tends to be busier than at satellite sites. Mostly study and network tbh.

 

[asmallchild]

Genuine question, but what does a Derm resident do on other weekends outside of these conferences? Do you guys get a lot of inpatient consults and have to cover hospital services?

Read. Incredible amount of knowledge to read and review. Many derm residents are smart enough to kick it into a different gear and cram when it comes time to study for the ITE or the actual board exam.

For those of us who aren't quite as bright (hello!), we are better served with a steady dose of heavy reading throughout residency.

 

[PhillyMed777]

Genuine question, but what does a Derm resident do on other weekends outside of these conferences? Do you guys get a lot of inpatient consults and have to cover hospital services?

-lots of reading
-research
-first year was very, very busy. Much busier than my medicine internship. Academic centers funnel in all tough cases, and you are often covering clinic call overnight, mohs complications, in baskets, urgent add ons, consults at multiple hospitals at the same time.
-my last year (particularly after my last CORE exam was done) was much more chill- maybe 40 hours of patient interfacing work, 4 hours of chief duties, 5 hours of reading, and 3 hours of inbox work a week. I am a go getter so I ended up doing a lot of other things on my own volition, but I won't count that here. I got away with 5 hours of reading a week my last year, because I read about 12 hours a week my first year.

 

[MayoGrad]

surprised Mayo Clinic derm residency in Rochester hasn’t been mentioned yet; but at the same time Mayo culture is a cult-like and it’s hard to find people willing to spill the beans.

 

[username456789]

surprised Mayo Clinic derm residency in Rochester hasn’t been mentioned yet; but at the same time Mayo culture is a cult-like and it’s hard to find people willing to spill the beans.

Spill ‘em.

 

[Med6941]

@MayoGrad can you shed light on their residency program?

 

[zanzizic]

Sinai? I thought that's just how New York was in general?

 

[eponymous_anonymous]

Can’t believe no one has mentioned Columbia Dermatology. The stories I’ve heard are legitimately illegal and should be investigated - “women shouldn’t get pregnant during residency”, lots of racism and sexism.

 

[TexasMed22]

surprised Mayo Clinic derm residency in Rochester hasn’t been mentioned yet; but at the same time Mayo culture is a cult-like and it’s hard to find people willing to spill the beans.

Not derm, but isn't mayo IM notorious for being one of the chillest medicine programs around? Other than being a little cult-y, seems like a nice place to be

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Not derm, but isn't mayo IM notorious for being one of the chillest medicine programs around? Other than being a little cult-y, seems like a nice place to be

I have no personal experience with Mayo but in my mind the type of people that end up there have different definitions of the world "chill" than the rest of us might...

 

[TexasMed22]

I have no personal experience with Mayo but in my mind the type of people that end up there have different definitions of the world "chill" than the rest of us might...

Ha, fair. Just meant from an objective perspective (4+4 schedule, no 24/28s, reasonable time off, low patient caps, etc)

 

[Deecee2DO]

Not derm, but isn't mayo IM notorious for being one of the chillest medicine programs around? Other than being a little cult-y, seems like a nice place to be

Mayo IM is insanely chill. Reportedly have their own scribes or something and have that coveted 4+4 schedule, no 24s, doesnt get better than that for IM

 

[TexasMed22]

Mayo IM is insanely chill. Reportedly have their own scribes or something and have that coveted 4+4 schedule, no 24s, doesnt get better than that for IM

I wonder how competitive it is given the chillness + the prestige of the Mayo brand. Idk if the location scares folks away, plus not being "big 4".

 

[Deecee2DO]

I wonder how competitive it is given the chillness + the prestige of the Mayo brand. Idk if the location scares folks away, plus not being "big 4".

Mayo is definitely very competitive T20 for sure. Not everyone can tap into the big 4 i mean were talking 26x/27x high IF pubs T10 med school types who match Big 4 aka the types of applicants who could have matched derm/plastics etc