To all NRI's thinking of coming to India for their Education

[schandan13]

One question I have for Schandan or whoever else can answer it... suppose i apply for residency and I get it in New york or somewhere else... at the end of that residency I can choose to stay there and practice without taking any other exams correct? Now if I choose to go to say another state like California or sowhere... would I have to take California state boards exams or are state board exams all lumped into one exam which allows practice in all 50 states?

To the best of my knowledge, to start practice in a specific state, you need to file some paperwork to show your board certification, board scores, residency completion proof etc. There are no exams you need to pass once you are through residency. It's largely paperwork.

That said, your school MUST be listed in the list of schools recognized by that specific state's medical board to be eligible to practice there.

I could be wrong with this, as i said, this is to the best of my knowledge.

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[dggopal]

Got a PM from a parent asking about visa's..... particularly what visa should one have to come to med school here and all stuff pertaining to it... Thought I would post the question here too.

As far as I know one should come here on a X visa (don't know the significance of this visa... if anyone does please shed some light) and after getting accepted to the medical college one can convert said X visa into a student visa( don't know the exact process... again if someone can shed some light)

Also Does anyone know about the PIO( person of Indian Origin) card and its benefits? How do you get this card? ( I assume they meant what documents are needed and where to apply?)

Anyone wanna take a shot at answering?

 

[OneoftheGuptas]

The application for a PIO is done at the Indian Embassy, just as you would apply for a visa.

You will need proof of some sort to show that at least one of your parents or grandparents are or were Indian (I say "were", because it is alright if they have changed their country of citizenship). This can be in the form of Indian passports, Indian birth certificates, or school certificates. My father only had one school certificate (I forgot what level of education), and it worked just fine.

I'm not sure of all the legal and political advantages that come with being a PIO, aside from the advantages to students.

As a student studying in India, you need to register yourself at the city's Commissioner's Office, and get a Residential Permit (RP). The process of obtaining the RP takes loads of time and effort, since you will be having to travel back and forth between the city's head police station, your local police station, and your college for documents and signatures. If not done on time, you can be fined, jailed, or even sent back to your home country.
The RP must be repeated after expiration (I think it lasts one year? I can't remember).

With the PIO, it is not necessary to register for an RP, unless your stay is longer than 6 months. Usually, there will be a vacation within 6 months, so I have not yet had to register for an RP, since acquiring my PIO card. It works in place of a visa, and is valid for 15 years, whereas my student visa was only valid for 1 year.

There is the added advantage that holding a PIO card means I get asked less questions at the airport about who I am, what I am doing in India, etc.

On a side note, it has also comes in handy as a form of ID proof when opening accounts and whatnot. It counts as a second ID, when given along with your passport.

About the visas, I am not sure if this is exactly how it should be done, but I came here on a normal visitor's visa. After being accepted into the college, I converted my visa into a student visa, which is mandatory.
In order to convert, you must go to the Indian Embassy along with your passport and documents showing that you have been accepted into the college. This includes a Bonafide certificate, an eligibility certificate, and one or two more things that I cannot remember at the moment. If you live far away, I believe the embassy accepts mailed passports and documents. The embassy will simply cross off your visitor's visa, and put a student's visa on the next page. It costs some amount of money (I forget how much).

As far as I remember, it is easier to get these things done in your home country that in India. So you must come here, finish the admissions process, and either fill an RP or leave within the time specified by your specific visa, go back home, then either obtain a PIO card or have your visa changed to a student visa.
Hope this helps!

 

[suhani50]

This is my situation i am an international student in the united states as a pre-med student. I am stuck in the situation the most medical schools in the usa accept GC or citizen of USA and am neither although there are some private universities here that do accept international students but at a very minimal rate, and the standards are really high alot to go through the bachelors which i have been fighting through and i dont feel i can go any longer since i am not intrested in the music and all general education classes which have been hurting my GPA big time and i know ultimatly the only thing i would like to persue as a carrer would be a cardiologist. As my parents really want me to stay here i wouldnt mind working hard and trying but i feel its a time waster to try with a less than 5% chances since very few international students are accepted( as far as my research). So i have though about going to india and gettig my mbbs and applying for residency in the usa after completion. But i dont know how getting the MBBS degree would affect my choice in the medical field as a cardiologist i have no clue about what i should look forward to after the application of the residency program????? would i need to do PG education??? and also i was wondering what is the right choice to make?? what should i do?? it is reallly hard when life comes to you with 2 diffrent direction and u want to make sure u picked the right one!! do u guys know if there are university over here that can be well worth it!!!



i have been reading so many threads on this website and people here are very friendly and understanding!!!!!

 

[schandan13]

What year of premed are you in ? What is your GPA and have you taken the MCATs yet ?

I would like to know the answer to those questions before being able to tell you what best you can do, given your situation.

While it's true that chances of you getting into a US MD school without a GC or PR are less than 5%, they aren't 0. If not MD, you can most certainly try for a DO. Many new colleges have opened up (LECOM for eg.) that do not require stellar MCAT scores or GPA. You would make life alot easier for yourself if you got into a medical school in the US. I would imagine that since you are already doing premed here, you would be taught with the ultimate goal of getting into med school. Prepare well for the MCAT...take it multiple times if need be, and apply wisely to US schools.

Going to India would certainly hurt your chances of getting a residency. Cardiology fellowships are done once you complete an Internal Medicine residency. Non US graduates are gradually being squeezed out since the US is decreasing it's dependence on foreign trained doctors. I would imagine that 5-6 years from now (unless residency slots are opened up) chances of a non american grad matching even into primary care would be very very difficult.
US-IMGs and Big 4 graduates would face the music too no doubt, but IMHO, the first to get the boot would be non US citizens with minimal clinical experience (the category you would fall into if you go to india at this point in time).

So try everything possible to get into a US MD/DO school. If not, there are a couple of very reputed international medical schools which you can look into. Last option (one could call it safe too, if you think you might end up settling in India) would be to go the MBBS way.

 

[sammy22555]

hi all m an nri.............currently studyin in kenya..........i do the gce a level course here..................my subjcts r physics chem bio maths..........n m gonna finish the course nxt yr........i plan on doin medicine n among other choices, m also considering studying in one of the indian unis.................cud u pls advice me on the enrollment procedures n costs 4 studyin there...........thnx in advance...............pls also tell me the grades i require n possibility of obtaining the seat

 

[confused Naija]

Hi y'all,i stumbled across dis forum and i don't regret it,u guys have been of great help...rily sheddin lite on som impt stuff.So....i'm Nigerian...currently in my third year undergrad studyin Microbiology in Nigeria.I was rily thinking of MBBS in India but after learning that i'd still be spending as much time as a high school leaver..and still more time being a foreigner and all....India doesn't sound so gud again...Or am i wrong?Will i spend less time than usual?Somebody should pls shed som lite on dis 4 me. And wud d fees be d same as the high "donations" 4 NRI's or higher for me?.........Thanks guys

 

[schandan13]

Since you're already getting bachelors in microbiology, even if you join MBBS in india, everyone in your class would 18 year old, fresh out of high school. The entire degree is 5.5 years which includes 1 year of internship after 4.5 of studies.

Now, as for the cost, good colleges charge more than $100,000. Good colleges like Manipal may even be more actually.

Lastly, where do you intend to practice ? If i know that, i can help you better.

 

[confused Naija]

Tanx 4d info Schandan 13,i guess i'd just forget about India then.My second choice was the Carribeans cos it's kinda cheaper and easier to get in than in d US....i see u're in SGU.Am i wrong about the cheaper and easier to get in part?About where i want 2 practice,i think everybody wants 2 get licensed in d US even if they don't plan on staying...cos i don't.

 

[schandan13]

Easier to get into ? Yes as compared to good US MD schools. You will most definitely need an MCAT in high 20s and a GPA of about 3.2-3.5. That is surely higher than some DO schools like LECOM.

Cheaper ? Not even close. SGU is the most expensive caribbean medical school. But the support system they offer is also better than the rest. They also hand out scholarships which can cut upto 1/3rd of the tuition cost. But you are looking at close to $250K by the time you graduate (w/o scholarships).

 

[cdndoc9]

sammy22555 - you need to learn how to write properly before you even consider a career in medicine, or any field for that matter.

 

[relapse]

sammy22555 - you need to learn how to write properly before you even consider a career in medicine, or any field for that matter.

hahahahahahaha, you just made my day

 

[Studentfromsg]

Hi there!
I'm Sham n I took chem bio math n econs at A levels.it's kinda sad that in my country the colleges rarely offer triple sciences these days.so do I still hold a chance?I'm thinking of st john's n ms ramaiah in blore.pls help

 

[NRIswagg]

Hey! I'm also going to apply Ramaiah and St.Johns for next year as well as KIMS. I know the colleges really want to see all 3 sciences, so maybe you could take classes separately online? but what other colleges are you thinking of applying to?

 

[PinkScrubs34]

Hey guys! I live in America. During my research for whether or not I should come to India for med school I stumbled upon this thread. I know it's old, but the wisdom on this page is amazing. Hopefully, I'm going to be starting my first year at SMIMER in Surat this July. Does anyone have a recommended checklist of supplies for medical school to bring from the US? i.e.- stethoscope, lab coat, etc. Look forward to hearing from someone!

 

[whatnonsense]

Hey guys,

I am currently a 12th grade student studying in the US. However, I'd like to settle and work in my home country, India, after my studies. My plan is to go into medicine (specialty undecided at this point). I wanted to stay in the US and earn my MD degree from a medical college but return to India to complete my residency. However, what will this MD degree from the US equal to in India? Will I have to take any exams before my residency? I want to somehow how avoid doing the three extra years for an MS (like MBBS students).

In addition, we all know how expensive it is to study and adjust to a new lifestyle (especially for NRIs going into medicine in India)! I want to find out which medical colleges in southern India accept NRIs (since I'm somewhat familiar with the languages) and require the lowest expenses (though I have a feeling they're all ridiculously expensive...). I am a fairly good student but I like to know my options

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[dggopal]

I don't know if I have understood you completely, but basically you are saying you want to do med school here in the states and then go to india for your PG? I don't even know how that would work. But honestly I think you would do a lot better going to india for the whole thing... especially taking into account the cost of it all. firstly if you do your med school here I doubt( am not sure) if you can apply for competition there and even if you could you would be at a disadvantage.... now that would put you in the position of buying a PG seat in the management quota which runs in the Crores! just to be clear 1crore = 10 mill rupees which translates into more than 200k US dollars! Give yourself a chance at getting a seat in competition and go there for med school, or better yet do everything here and then go there and practice.... but the way you are saying, if I am understanding it correctly, would be round about and extremely expensive... but I haven't really researched how us med grads get post graduate study in India so maybe I am wrong... the price for the PG seats though I am sure of... and that figure is on the low side...

 

[dggopal]

Hey guys! I live in America. During my research for whether or not I should come to India for med school I stumbled upon this thread. I know it's old, but the wisdom on this page is amazing. Hopefully, I'm going to be starting my first year at SMIMER in Surat this July. Does anyone have a recommended checklist of supplies for medical school to bring from the US? i.e.- stethoscope, lab coat, etc. Look forward to hearing from someone!

american food!!!!!. Toilet paper ( if you are a tp snob and like that triple ply and all....). You don't need to buy any lab coat or stethoscope from home... you can get that in india... I would suggest you buy scrubs if your school doesn't give you them.... they are better quality at home... but make sure you get info on color and stuff... as sometimes the institute is specific on what is the appropriate color for students, PG's, and then Staff. bring your usmle books ( a lot of the books that are great you won't find in india and study along during the years... I would buy used as you will not be taking the exam for a few years so buy the new versions when you are revising so that should save money). India doesn't have shoes above size 10 usually... so if you have big feet bring shoes... Indian roads are known to eat shoes alive... so leave the fancy/ white crap at home and bring the solid stuff ( lugz were the only pair that survived for more than a year for me). I am particular about my pillow and comforter... so I would recommend bringing the memory foam pillow and your choic comforter from home... as well as a duvet cover so you can easily wash that .... in india they are expensive if you want to buy like a down comforter and the normal stuff you get is crap...... Bring laptops from home... they are soooo much cheaper in america than India.... I used to bring my stationary but now they have good stuff in india... thats about all i can think of right now... but hopefully it will get you thinking in the right direction.

 

[malvi]

Hello, can anyone tell me the current cost of donation to MS Ramaiah college in Bangalore? Trying to get in through the NRI quota and want an approximation of how much it is going to cost. Thank you!!

 

[lysol]

Hello, can anyone tell me the current cost of donation to MS Ramaiah college in Bangalore? Trying to get in through the NRI quota and want an approximation of how much it is going to cost. Thank you!!

Around $125K for MSR
SRMC is around $155K however

The Cost of Donation really spiked this year.

 

[malvi]

Around $125K for MSR
SRMC is around $155K however

The Cost of Donation really spiked this year.

The admissions for this year is closed (2012-2013)... as classes start Aug 1st
Your trying to get in for next year right?

Yeah,I'm looking to apply for 2013. I heard that it was close to $200 k this year Also, what is the cost of tuition per annum after paying donation??

 

[malvi]

Also, what is MSR and SRMC?

 

[whatnonsense]

Thanks for your input dggopal. I don't really know what to do at this point. Are there any med colleges in India that require less than 100k for MBBS? Just trying to get a degree without spending a fortune

 

[zeldajae]

Thanks for your input dggopal. I don't really know what to do at this point. Are there any med colleges in India that require less than 100k for MBBS? Just trying to get a degree without spending a fortune

Haha, let me tell you one thing: you will have to spend a fortune to get a medical degree, no matter where you do it. Sorry to break the news.

For example: if you want to study in US, your total debt for 4 years of Undergrad and 4 years of Medical School does add up to beyond 100K. Same thing if you want to come to India.

But don't choose your medical college JUST per your money, because it also depends on what college you choose. The better college you choose, the better learning experience you get. And the way you can decide if a INDIAN college is good or not is based on the amount of patients the hospital gets and the amount of rankers the college gets.

 

[lysol]

Also, what is MSR and SRMC?

MSR MS Ramaiah @ $125K
SRMC Sri RamaChandra Medical School @ $155K

After the initial donation, what you pay on a yearly basis depends on living conditions (hostel, apartment, food, books, etc.)

 

[Asmara Ash]

Take admission at a place where you know someone, have fellow nri friends already enrolled and studying.

 

[dggopal]

Thank you Asmara... I think that is an excellent point in terms of just looking at the monetary aspect of getting admission somewhere... it is important to have a good support network as well as avenues to relax and release wherever you study! This cannot be stressed enough.

Now seeing as how the price of donation is almost equaling what it would cost here in the states, one must reassess if it is such a good idea monetarily speaking. You are going to have to pay a lump sum without the prospect of student loans. Manipal offers a yearly tuition schedule but I think it is significantly more more besides the other downsides of manipal....

I think with the growing competition in the US in terms of residencies and the addition of sooo many new D.O schools along with the steep price increase India now stands as a secondary option in terms of medical education for US students wishing to come back to the US to practice.... What's more is that despite paying almost the same amount of money if not more... you spend the same amount of time... and are at a distinct disadvantage when applying for residency... I'm saying this not to discourage someone from going to India for med school but rather because I think TODAY the carribean/British schools would probably be a better idea.

 

[studentcrisis]

I am currently studying in class 12 here in India and am a USA citizen...I was just wondering is it better to do medical here in India or in the Phillipines...I want to go back to the USA for residency...If I study here in India will I be at a loss...? Really looking forward to a reply..

 

[dggopal]

Ya know... I am thinking more and more about the worth of going to Med school in India. As costs skyrocket the decision becomes much more simple. I mean if you are spending 150k on tuition/donation alone the cost of school comes out to about the same after factoring in the lost time( even if you pass the course without failing once you will still take a year for the USMLE's) not to mention the cost of flying back and forth between countries. When I applied to school in India the total donation was about 80k without any repeater fees no matter how long I took. A lot cheaper than America even with the logistical expenses. This gap has diminished considerably since then but what hasn't diminished is the difference in the learning experience.

after having taken a huge chunk of time studying for the USMLE step 1, I must say that the caliber of teachers in western med schools is nothing short of brilliant! I mean I was watching the Kaplan videos and the way they make the subject so enjoyable and extremely easy to understand and retain is amazing. I know the teachers in the videos are probably the best teachers in their field but even if normal teachers across the US are a quarter of what these teachers are it still blows Indian teachers out of the water, at least at private colleges! Indian teachers may know their stuff, but the methodology of teaching and the art of breaking a subject down into easy to digest info has been mastered in the US. I mean embryology, a subject feared and hated by most students in India is an perfect example of this as the teachers here, with their simple and easy to remember diagrams, TEACH the subject such that you can apply it and retain it forever. You learn it once and you will most likely never forget it. This is why students from the west say "don't study for the USMLE more than 2 weeks!" and why we as IMG's spend a year trying to crack the tests.

Again while studying here for the USMLE's I wanted to study with other students. Can't always study at home... hah. Studying in the library of a premier college in California I got a glimpse of what student life in America is like. I remember comparing my experience in India and the struggle it was to succeed there and I must say that though I had a blast in India and it was great in its own way, college in America appears to be incredible. I have noticed that here they make it SOOO SOO easy for you to want to study and learn. You pay for what you get: The libraries are state of the art with ergonomic chairs and tables, blazing wifi, air conditioning, not to mention the best study materials available. Finals week? Okay well the university is open 24 hours including the library, coffee shops, on campus restaraunts! That sort of college environment is simply priceless!

I am not knocking the decision to go to India! That is not the purpose of this post. I am happy as hell I am done with MBBS debt free without the hassle of going through MCAT etc... I am just trying to shed some light on the differences you will face. I had no idea what I missed until I saw the difference first hand... excuse the harry potter reference but it was almost like a muggle getting a day tour of hogwarts! hah It is what it is... Make an Informed decision!

 

[Medstart108]

Ya know... I am thinking more and more about the worth of going to Med school in India. As costs skyrocket the decision becomes much more simple. I mean if you are spending 150k on tuition/donation alone the cost of school comes out to about the same after factoring in the lost time( even if you pass the course without failing once you will still take a year for the USMLE's) not to mention the cost of flying back and forth between countries. When I applied to school in India the total donation was about 80k without any repeater fees no matter how long I took. A lot cheaper than America even with the logistical expenses. This gap has diminished considerably since then but what hasn't diminished is the difference in the learning experience.

after having taken a huge chunk of time studying for the USMLE step 1, I must say that the caliber of teachers in western med schools is nothing short of brilliant! I mean I was watching the Kaplan videos and the way they make the subject so enjoyable and extremely easy to understand and retain is amazing. I know the teachers in the videos are probably the best teachers in their field but even if normal teachers across the US are a quarter of what these teachers are it still blows Indian teachers out of the water, at least at private colleges! Indian teachers may know their stuff, but the methodology of teaching and the art of breaking a subject down into easy to digest info has been mastered in the US. I mean embryology, a subject feared and hated by most students in India is an perfect example of this as the teachers here, with their simple and easy to remember diagrams, TEACH the subject such that you can apply it and retain it forever. You learn it once and you will most likely never forget it. This is why students from the west say "don't study for the USMLE more than 2 weeks!" and why we as IMG's spend a year trying to crack the tests.

Again while studying here for the USMLE's I wanted to study with other students. Can't always study at home... hah. Studying in the library of a premier college in California I got a glimpse of what student life in America is like. I remember comparing my experience in India and the struggle it was to succeed there and I must say that though I had a blast in India and it was great in its own way, college in America appears to be incredible. I have noticed that here they make it SOOO SOO easy for you to want to study and learn. You pay for what you get: The libraries are state of the art with ergonomic chairs and tables, blazing wifi, air conditioning, not to mention the best study materials available. Finals week? Okay well the university is open 24 hours including the library, coffee shops, on campus restaraunts! That sort of college environment is simply priceless!

I am not knocking the decision to go to India! That is not the purpose of this post. I am happy as hell I am done with MBBS debt free without the hassle of going through MCAT etc... I am just trying to shed some light on the differences you will face. I had no idea what I missed until I saw the difference first hand... excuse the harry potter reference but it was almost like a muggle getting a day tour of hogwarts! hah It is what it is... Make an Informed decision!

Hey dggopal. Where are you right now. Are you still in medical school in India or are you in the US now? You said you were studying in UC library. How come?

 

[OneoftheGuptas]

I am currently studying in class 12 here in India and am a USA citizen...I was just wondering is it better to do medical here in India or in the Phillipines...I want to go back to the USA for residency...If I study here in India will I be at a loss...? Really looking forward to a reply..

I'm so sorry to have not gotten back to you all this time! I don't know if you have already made your decision.

Getting into an American residency program will be much easier if you've studied and had US experience. You will, however, have to complete 4 years of Bachelor's beforehand. If you choose to study in India or elsewhere, you will have to complete the USMLEs on your own before applying, which generally takes about 1 year, minimum.

Time and money are something that need to be taken into account, obviously.

If you are used to the Indian system, and see an obvious financial advantage to staying in India, it might not be a bad idea to go to the US after MBBS. If money is not an issue, then the US is much better in regards to education, and options for residency.

 

[rafman]

I hope you guys understand that starting around 2017 (anywhere from 2016 to 2020), it is going to be virtually IMPOSSIBLE for IMGs to get US residencies (even if you score in the 250s). The number of US grads= residency positions. Even the family medicine residencies in middle of Alabama are going to become off limits ( DOs will take those over).The AMA has clearly stated that one it's main reasons to drastically open new MD/DO schools as well as raise the number of seats is to virtually eliminate America's dependence on foreign physicians. ( My med school dean is a board member of the AMA and he told us this). For example in my us school alone, we have raised the number seats from 200 to 250 (incoming class of 2017). It makes NO sense to go to India/ Australia/Carribeans anymore. PS. India has a shortage of about 600,000 physicians, so it might not be a bad idea to use the education you got there and stay in India rather than risk a 1/1,000,000 chance to get a US residency. If you guys want to take the easy way out then I'm sorry you guys don't deserve do be doctors in the US, just suck it up, graduate college in 3-4 years like the rest of us, and be confident that you will get into an US school!

 

[rafman]

.

 

[IlDestriero]

The AMA has clearly stated that one it's main reasons to drastically open new MD/DO schools as well as raise the number of seats is to virtually eliminate America's dependence on foreign physicians. ( My med school dean is a board member of the AMA and he told us this).

While it's interesting that your dean is a board member of the AMA, it's worth noting that the AAMC is the accrediting organization for medical schools in the Us. The AMA is a farce which doesn't represent the interests of the vast majority of practicing physicians. In fact, I don't know a single person who is even a member of the AMA. Though I do throw out their incessant letters asking me to join on a regular basis. Perhaps they have a "do not mail/email list.

 

[rafman]

You make a good point lol! but the AAMC and the AMA have been working together on this ( the AAMC proposed this), if you don't believe me, this topic has been discussed to death on SDN. Whether its the AMA, AAMC, FBI or Disney, the point is that by 2021, America will no longer have a need for foreign physicians. It is everyone's goal here in the US to stop relying on foreign physicians. For example, there was a
bill that was introduced in the senate that wouldve increased residency positions by 15,000 over the next 5 years, however the bill was turned down. The government has SPECIFICALLY stated this desire. Bottom line, very soon the number of US grads
is going to equal residency positions, hence no more foreign grads. However, this will not address the physician shortage, but their first goal is to stop this foreign dependence.

 

[zeldajae]

You make a good point lol! but the AAMC and the AMA have been working together on this ( the AAMC proposed this), if you don't believe me, this topic has been discussed to death on SDN. Whether its the AMA, AAMC, FBI or Disney, the point is that by 2021, America will no longer have a need for foreign physicians. It is everyone's goal here in the US to stop relying on foreign physicians. For example, there was a
bill that was introduced in the senate that wouldve increased residency positions by 15,000 over the next 5 years, however the bill was turned down. The government has SPECIFICALLY stated this desire. Bottom line, very soon the number of US grads
is going to equal residency positions, hence no more foreign grads. However, this will not address the physician shortage, but their first goal is to stop this foreign dependence.

Let me remind you the fact that doctors who did their school in the 3rd world country has more clinical experience than does any US Medical Graduate. Thats a FACT.

And why would they stop accepting IMGs when they have shortage in the health care field? Its not that they'll stop accepting them, they'll require more from you. As in taking the USMLE WHILE you are in college. Doing clinical rotations in US. Having few research publications under your name. Having done personal observe ship in the field that you like to get accepted in residency.

Bottom Line: If you are in US, stay in US. Don't come to India. But if you do come to India, you have to do well in your studies, score amazing well on the USMLEs, do some clinical rotations during your internship in US, and do research. That'll guarantee you a match ANYTIME in the future.

And plus have this logic here: US wants people from outside to come and live in US. But if they stop accepting IMGs, then what will the doctors do when they come and settle in US? So, obviously, thats not gonna happen. The most that will happen is get even more competitive than it already is.

 

[zeldajae]

Oh, for those of you reading this: Do well in your exams in college as well, because transcript will play a role.

 

[rafman]

I am not going to argue with disillusioned wanna-be US docs. America doesn't care what happens when foreign docs come here and don't get residency spots. They dont care if you guys have more clincial experience, their number one factor is WHERE you graduated from. Get your head out of your a** and realize that soon there will be an equal number of us grads for each residency spot. THAT means it doesn't matter how much research or clinical experience IMGs have because no US residency spot is going to take an IMG over a similar well suited USMG. It won't become more competitive, it'll become IMPOSSIBLE. It's simple math! I don't want to squash any hope, but realize the future is dead for IMGs in America, so stop wasting your time and aim for countries or goals that are more realistic. I don't mean to come off as rude, but I hate it when posters like the one above me try to disillusion themselves and other people with false information and hope. I almost died laughing when you said IMGs are GUARANTEED a spot, nothing can be further from the truth! You guys get spots bc of unfilled spots, but soon there will not be any! Just look at relevant posts on SDN and read the news articles, they all convey what i am saying. Best of luck to you guys

 

[OneoftheGuptas]

Rafman, I find it odd that you have posted this same information in several forums, and gotten into disagreements everywhere. Perhaps some people are in denial to a certain extent, but I wonder why you are spending so much time getting into arguments over it? FRIEDA and NRMP give us all the stats we need, and will continue to do so. They are also probably more accurate than an AMA representative's remarks.

 

[DaMan00]

I hope you guys understand that starting around 2017 (anywhere from 2016 to 2020), it is going to be virtually IMPOSSIBLE for IMGs to get US residencies (even if you score in the 250s). The number of US grads= residency positions. Even the family medicine residencies in middle of Alabama are going to become off limits ( DOs will take those over).The AMA has clearly stated that one it's main reasons to drastically open new MD/DO schools as well as raise the number of seats is to virtually eliminate America's dependence on foreign physicians. ( My med school dean is a board member of the AMA and he told us this). For example in my us school alone, we have raised the number seats from 200 to 250 (incoming class of 2017). It makes NO sense to go to India/ Australia/Carribeans anymore. PS. India has a shortage of about 600,000 physicians, so it might not be a bad idea to use the education you got there and stay in India rather than risk a 1/1,000,000 chance to get a US residency. If you guys want to take the easy way out then I'm sorry you guys don't deserve do be doctors in the US, just suck it up, graduate college in 3-4 years like the rest of us, and be confident that you will get into an US school!

In 2013 there were 25,463 who matched. Of those 16,390 were US Seniors. Which means there are approximately 9063 Imgs who matched. Seems like pretty good odds to me. And if you are a US Citizen the odds are even greater.

http://www.nrmp.org/ Under 2013 Match fast facts

 

[DaMan00]

I am not going to argue with disillusioned wanna-be US docs. America doesn't care what happens when foreign docs come here and don't get residency spots. They dont care if you guys have more clincial experience, their number one factor is WHERE you graduated from. Get your head out of your a** and realize that soon there will be an equal number of us grads for each residency spot. THAT means it doesn't matter how much research or clinical experience IMGs have because no US residency spot is going to take an IMG over a similar well suited USMG. It won't become more competitive, it'll become IMPOSSIBLE. It's simple math! I don't want to squash any hope, but realize the future is dead for IMGs in America, so stop wasting your time and aim for countries or goals that are more realistic. I don't mean to come off as rude, but I hate it when posters like the one above me try to disillusion themselves and other people with false information and hope. I almost died laughing when you said IMGs are GUARANTEED a spot, nothing can be further from the truth! You guys get spots bc of unfilled spots, but soon there will not be any! Just look at relevant posts on SDN and read the news articles, they all convey what i am saying. Best of luck to you guys

And by the way although things are getting more competitive unless these new US med schools can produce 9,000 new graduates I think there will still be places for IMGs, although of course the match rate among imgs will always be lower compared to american medical graduates.

 

[OneoftheGuptas]

Thanks for posting the stats!

 

[dggopal]

Just as a quick reply to someone who asked where I was right now.... Sorry haven't gotten back to you until now... sorta been busy... Graduated from KIMS in 2012 and am currently back in Los Angeles studying like crazy for step 1... hopefully that explains why I was studying in a UC library haha... I too agree that America is trying to remove its dependence on foreign medical graduates. In todays environment with Obamacare opening the flood gates to increasing patient loads I was hoping that the rout to residency would be getting easier. Instead it has only been getting tougher and nurse practitioners have been called upon to plug the gap. Hopefully we will see this change in the coming future but I doubt it. The best bet right now is to really study hard throughout ones career and if you do end up going to India, get us rotations, take the USMLE's before you graduate. It's definitely hard but not impossible.

 

[vrsmk]

I am following this post for quite sometime. I would be nice to know, what will happen to "resident physician shortage act 2014" , will it improve the situation for IMGs?
I know many had posted this fear. I am reposting this. what is the percentage of risk not getting into residency spot in US?. I am planning to goto India 2015, possible graduation by 2020 ~ 2021.

Is there programs available for US clicnical rotations during study in India?. will Indian medical schools allow do their internships in US ( 1 year of internships)

Please advise...

 

[drk]

The only program I know of that has US clinical rotations is Manipal. Indian medical schools will not let you do your internship in the US. You can take a break and do some clerkships in the USA though.

All this talk about physician shortage does not matter until residency seats are increased. If they are not, then yes in 2020 you are going to have a very difficult time matching. The match rate last year was approximately 45ish percent for USIMGS? Next year probably 40-45, then 40ish the next year then 35ish by the time your applying. It will become difficult but not impossible.

 

[darklabel]

Rafman, I find it odd that you have posted this same information in several forums, and gotten into disagreements everywhere. Perhaps some people are in denial to a certain extent, but I wonder why you are spending so much time getting into arguments over it? FRIEDA and NRMP give us all the stats we need, and will continue to do so. They are also probably more accurate than an AMA representative's remarks.

Problem is, based on what I'm reading here, going to India to study medicine is a terrible idea. Not all USIMGs are the same and most of the ~50% that match come from the Caribbean or a school that is similar to a US curriculum. Someone said that the main draw of India is to save money and time, but ~160K isn't far off from what you'll be in debt if you got to a state school, graduate in 4 years (or even 3 if you're studious enough), go to Carrib (or try for USMD at the same time) and then match. You'll be in residency in ~8 years after high school (or 7 if you manage your time right and graduate with an undergraduate degree in 3). US state college isn't super competitive to get into and to just get into the carrib medical school requires a mediocre GPA and MCAT. Also, loans from the government have some very favorable programs for US citizens including Income Based Plan and such.

Most US residency programs take into account things like clinical grades, step 1 grades etc. Someone said you can take Step 1 multiple times, but if you have to take it more than once, your chances of matching are basically zero. Also as someone stated, if you just pass the Step, but don't score well, then you're stuck with that score forever.

If you fail to match the first time, your chances of matching the second time are also significantly lower and there's no real way to beef up your application. When you enter the match, you go all in and as an IMG, you make sure you match the first time. Go in thinking that there's no second chance.

Finally, it is highly desirable that you do your clinical years (or the equivalent of clinicals in India) here in the US. I'm not knocking down the Indian education system and I understand they see patients earlier, but residency directors don't care much about when you see patients since they operate on the assumption of their applicants attending a US school or a curriculum very similar to the US.

I personally know many indians that go Caribbean medical schools and succeed. Most of my indian friends either stay in the US or are going to a school with a similar curriculum to the US and one that allows you to do your clinical years in the US and is geared towards the USMLE. It doesn't matter how much time or money you want to save because your end goal is to match into a residency program in the US if you want to practice in the US. While the USMLE is self studying, it is much easier on yourself to go to a school that focuses on the USMLE format. You can save all the time and money you want but if you don't match, you will have an MBBS that will be essentially worthless in the US. Good luck and heavily research this option if your ultimate goal is to practice in the US.

 

[ConfusedDreamer369]

Hello dggopal!! I am in a very tough situation right now and I really need all the help I can get from any external source. I am an Indian Citizen living in The Bahamas for 8 years, now that its time to start college... I am stuck at a crossroad that I cant seem to decide for the love of God! This is my scenario.... and please if anyone else could give me advice, it would be appreciated!

I consider myself as one of the top students as my GPA is 4.23 and I attained 2000 in my SAT and have gotten several nation wide recognitions.... however I am not a hard working student... I dont know how I do it... but I cram a few days before and I ACE the exams. Anyways... I have two options in front of me

1. Study pre-med and med in a caribbean institute (this gives me a chance to stay with my family for 3 more years ) and then take the USMLE and do residency in the states
2. Do MBBS in India... (SDUMC in Kolar or MVJ college in Hoskote) since it is cheaper and it also gives my parents a reason to settle down and then attempt for the USMLE.... my parents dont like Manipal cuz it has a reputation of being a party school

The thing is... my parents are VERY SUPPORTIVE of my decisions and they are not forcing me to do one particular thing... however I am finding it very hard to make a decision because I dont know if I'm cut out for the 'ALL WORK' motto in the US and also Im not sure if I'll be able to adapt to the culture shock in Bangalore... because I like to judge and criticize everything around me (I'm that type of a person). Also, Im not sure if I'm cut out for the teaching pattern and honestly Im the type of person that doesnt like change.. but MAYBE I can adapt but I am uncertain about that fact.

In addition, I tend to look at my family goals rather than just myself... If I do MBBS in India my parents and my sister can return after 2 years and we can finally settle down as a family... however if I choose the Caribbean route, they are forced to stay in The Bahamas as expats (not that there is anything wrong with that)

Please help me somebody... I can't seem to be able to enjoy the daily pleasures of life because this decision is killing me from the inside.

N.B. I planned on not doing my pre-med in the states because even if I do score really HIGH on the MCAT, I am an INDIAN citizen and therefore they will not give me priority and I dont want to have to return to India to do 5 year MBBS programme.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP... I AM BEGGING YOU :'(

 

[Medstart108]

Hello dggopal!! I am in a very tough situation right now and I really need all the help I can get from any external source. I am an Indian Citizen living in The Bahamas for 8 years, now that its time to start college... I am stuck at a crossroad that I cant seem to decide for the love of God! This is my scenario.... and please if anyone else could give me advice, it would be appreciated!

I consider myself as one of the top students as my GPA is 4.23 and I attained 2000 in my SAT and have gotten several nation wide recognitions.... however I am not a hard working student... I dont know how I do it... but I cram a few days before and I ACE the exams. Anyways... I have two options in front of me

1. Study pre-med and med in a caribbean institute (this gives me a chance to stay with my family for 3 more years ) and then take the USMLE and do residency in the states
2. Do MBBS in India... (SDUMC in Kolar or MVJ college in Hoskote) since it is cheaper and it also gives my parents a reason to settle down and then attempt for the USMLE.... my parents dont like Manipal cuz it has a reputation of being a party school

The thing is... my parents are VERY SUPPORTIVE of my decisions and they are not forcing me to do one particular thing... however I am finding it very hard to make a decision because I dont know if I'm cut out for the 'ALL WORK' motto in the US and also Im not sure if I'll be able to adapt to the culture shock in Bangalore... because I like to judge and criticize everything around me (I'm that type of a person). Also, Im not sure if I'm cut out for the teaching pattern and honestly Im the type of person that doesnt like change.. but MAYBE I can adapt but I am uncertain about that fact.

In addition, I tend to look at my family goals rather than just myself... If I do MBBS in India my parents and my sister can return after 2 years and we can finally settle down as a family... however if I choose the Caribbean route, they are forced to stay in The Bahamas as expats (not that there is anything wrong with that)

Please help me somebody... I can't seem to be able to enjoy the daily pleasures of life because this decision is killing me from the inside.

N.B. I planned on not doing my pre-med in the states because even if I do score really HIGH on the MCAT, I am an INDIAN citizen and therefore they will not give me priority and I dont want to have to return to India to do 5 year MBBS programme.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP... I AM BEGGING YOU :'(

Your SAT isn't that amazing but i guess if you didn't study and you got 2000 thats not bad. I think you should just do school in the Caribbean if you want to become a doctor in the US. You have more of a reason to do so since you live there. Going to India complicates things a bit. If you don't mind or prefer India then its better to do your MBBS in India for sure.

 

[anchi18]

@dggopal I know it's been ages since you've posted on here, but I wanted to ask a few questions

1. I have read this thread from the beginning and I see that you have made it clear that it takes 7 years or so for a US student to pass MBBS. I'm from the 2013 batch and I have just failed 1st MBBS for the 2nd year (3rd time I gave the exam via supplement). What do I do to make sure I pass this time? My marks went up by a bit, especially considering the difficulty of the questions in the supplement, but I thin the graders were being lenient because of the tough Qs. I just feel so discouraged at this point, like what am I supposed to do that I haven't done before? I have failed all three subjects in MUHS exam. Please advise me on what I can do, or what others are doing, to pass in this exam as I won't be given another opportunity.

2. At this rate, I will be graduating in 2017 if I pass 1st year this time 2016 (which I think I will if I just focus on memorizing which I did for the supplement, but being from the US I really don't know how to memorize). Plus, I would have to pass every exam in the 1st attempt. Will I even be able to get in through USMLE and practice in the US?

3. What kinds of things should I do to put me ahead of other IMGs? There is 1 other guy from my college who is technically a US citizen but he left the US at the age of 6, he will also be going for USMLE. Also, my best friend will be giving it and he is in final year but he is an Indian citizen, so how do my friend and I put ourselves ahead of this other guy who is a US citizen and make sure we get in via USMLE? What kinds of this should we do to make ourselves better candidates?

Honestly, if anybody can help out with any of these questions that would be great, as I am really in a bind. I have reached a point where having given the exam 3 times now, I am the only one left behind, all the repeaters have passed even the ones from 4 years prior. My parents are very unsupportive and expect me to pass because the other 2 NRIs who failed (both from Indian schools in Dubai) passed this time, and I didn't. Now they are telling me to get a job and just drop out of school altogether or earn the money for the ticket back to the US and pay all my living expenses and exam fees. They want me to get a minimum wage job and earn 1.5 lakh, at that rate it will take 5 months to earn enough and I will have missed the exam. I don't know what to do, and I really need some advice here. Please help.

A

 

[dggopal]

I see that the last post on here was from Nov. last year, so I am not going to address it besides saying you need to study your ass off and aim to surpass not only the IMG but the indian students that are studying day in and day out. I will also say that you should use Kaplan material as your bible and study that first and then you will be able to memorize the crap you need to put on the exam paper to pass the Indian exams.

Moving on. I finally MATCHED into Internal Medicine this year(2016). I started med school in India in 2003 and finished in end of 2011. Failed usmle step 2 once and passed everything else on 1st attempt. 222, 227(2nd attempt)

As advice, if you are an American, stay in America and study here. American does not care if you go unmatched... and there are plenty of indian MBBS holders without a residency to prove it. If you are an Indian/hell bent on going to India for Med school, it is not impossible, but definitely not easy. Study your ass off and pass on time. FINISH USMLE STEP 1 AND 2 BEFORE GRADUATING FROM INDIA, TAKE TIME OFF IF NEEDED. APPLY FOR US ROTATIONS AT TEACHING HOSPITALS AND COMPLETE THESE ROTATIONS BEFORE COMPLETING INTERNSHIP IN INDIA.

I spent $15,000 on residency applications last year applying to over 300 programs and about $14,000 this year. To compare the avg US grad applies to 20-30 programs. I am lucky to have parents who are financially capable to have supported this endeavor and a wife without whom I would have cracked.