Third Time Applicant

[acha9349]

Hello! I applied twice in the 2022 and 2023 cycles, and now I’m planning to apply for the 2025 cycle for the third time. It might probably be the last time I apply, so I really want to give it my best shot. I have one year to prepare, and I hope to hear any suggestions to strengthen my app!!

cGPA: 3.69 sGPA: 3.56
MCAT: 503 (129, 122, 125, 127) on Jan 2022 -> 505 (126, 124, 126, 129) on June 2022 planning to retake

California resident
Asian - Korean
Graduated from the University of California, Davis
Neurobiology, Physiology, and Behavior major

Experiences:
Clinical Job
Behavior Technician (9-year-old boy with ADHD and autism), 8/21 - 9/21, 75 hours
Medication Technician at senior living (passing medications to patients/residents), 11/22 - 5/23, 690 hours

Non-Clinical job
Private AP Biology Tutor (taught 2 high school students), 2/20 - 6/20, 80 hours
Private English Tutor (taught English from age 5 to adults from several visits to South Korea), 5/20 - 8/20 96 hours, 4/21 - 7/21 70 hours, 6/22 - 9/22 72 hours, total 238 hours
Team Leader of Elementary School (planning and educating second-grade class after school activities), 3/22 - 5/23, 950 hours

Clinical Volunteer
Cardiac Rehabilitation (engaged with patients), 9/18 - 12/18, 40 hours
Outpatient Surgery (guided patients in and out of the rooms and measured vitals), 1/20 - 3/20, 100 hours
Hospice (2 patients with Alzheimer’s disease), 2/21 - 6/22, 250 hours

Non-Clinical Volunteer
Korean Teacher at a church, 12/18 - 6/21, 40 hours
Food Bank, 10/20 - 6/22, 300 hours

Research
Research Assistant at MIND Institute of UCD (no publication), 1/19 - 3/20, 470 hours

Shadowing
Orthopedic Surgeon, M.D., 7/20, 50 hours
Geriatrician, D.O., 2/22, 10 hours

Leadership
Peer Mentor of Pre-Health Peer Mentorship at my university, 1/21-6/22, 72 hours
Science and Education Chair of Art and the Oceans at my university (organized and planned for elementary school projects), 11/20 - 6/21, 60 hours
Vice President and Flute Performer for Chamber Music for Charity at my university, 1/19 - 3/23, 156 hours

5 LOR: 2 Science prof, 1 English prof, 1 nurse, 1 research prof

This was my 2024 application and from then I have had additional experiences of:
Clinical volunteer at a hospital
Research Intern at a neurophotonics lab at Seoul National University (will have a pub)
Private English Tutor for adults

I plan to:
Retake MCAT sometime early next year
Look for more shadowing opportunities after taking MCAT
Have a clinical job after finishing the publication of my current research project

I have two big questions.

I’ve been in Korea for a year now. Staying in Korea for a year seems very long when I think of applying to medical school but short when I think of spending time with my parents (they live in Korea and I’ve been living separately since young). I originally didn’t plan to stay this long but got an opportunity to start a research project and happened to stay longer than I planned.
Would staying in a different country for a long time hurt my application since they may question my devotion to practicing medicine in the US? Would having clinical experiences and other experiences in a different country not be as effective as they would be in the US?

Also, I acknowledge that my biggest red flag is my MCAT score. I will be working on it the most for the next cycle, but what other experiences should I do to strengthen my application? I feel like some of these experiences were a while ago..

I appreciate any things or suggestions! Thank you so much for reading my long post.

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[Faha]

As a 3rd time applicant you should be applying broadly to DO schools. You do not need more shadowing hours. Clinical exposure in a foreign country has little value. Post your new MCAT score here when available.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

What were your results from the last two cycles? List schools with decisions made (interviews, reject after interview/waitlist).

DO schools should be included given your current MCAT scores, though let us know once you get a new MCAT. Your MCAT isn't the red flag; I suspect your school list and avoidance of DO schools are.

You should also return to finding US community service experience and build on your food bank work. You're getting close to 2 years since doing community service, and that pause may work against you.

 

[candbgirl]

Did you apply to DO schools in your previous application cycles?
Could you please post you lists from your previous cycles and note if you had any interviews and what the results were( Reject or Waitlist)?

 

[acha9349]

For 2023 cycle,
Albany
California Northstate
California University of Science and Medicine
Central Michigan
Chicago Med school at Rosalind Franklin
Keck School
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Oakland
Toledo
Arizona Tucson
UCD
UCI
UCLA
UCR
UCSD
Washington
Western Michigan

For 2024,
Case Western
Louisiana State
UCR
UMass
Tennessee
Virginia
Augusta

I see that my school lists were the red flags.. what I tried to do was to fist apply to all in-state schools and to find schools that even slightly match my MCAT score. I did not apply to DO schools because I want to be able to practice medicine in other countries in the future. I heard DO license doesn't get qualified for many countries.

I only got one interview from UMass this year and wasn't successful. Would it be really difficult for me to get into a MD school? I might be applying to DO schools for the next cycle, but I want to try my best to be prepared for a MD school.

 

[chilly_md]

Some schools like Tennessee, Augusta (MCG), and LSU take few to no students who aren’t from that state or never had a significant connection to the state. CA schools are very difficult for in-state residents to get into and some of the other schools you applied to have average MCATs far higher than yours as well.

Some of your activities come across as trying to fill all 15 slots on AMCAS. Teaching Korean for 40 hours over 2.5 years means you essentially did this for about 1 hr a month.

You can try retaking but I’d recommend a DO only cycle without a significant boost.

 

[acha9349]

Some schools like Tennessee, Augusta (MCG), and LSU take few to no students who aren’t from that state or never had a significant connection to the state. CA schools are very difficult for in-state residents to get into and some of the other schools you applied to have average MCATs far higher than yours as well.

Some of your activities come across as trying to fill all 15 slots on AMCAS. Teaching Korean for 40 hours over 2.5 years means you essentially did this for about 1 hr a month.

You can try retaking but I’d recommend a DO only cycle without a significant boost.

I see. Thank you for your insight. For the DO only cycle, would it be too late for me to apply for this cycle then? I haven't prepared for the essays or anything yet..

Also, if I retake MCAT and get a better score, would I have a better chance to get into MD or should I just focus on getting into DO schools with my scores and experiences?

 

[candbgirl]

AMCAS rec that schools average multiple MCAT scores. Some schools do, some don’t and we have no way to know what individual schools do.And actually your GPAs are below accepted MD applicants.
At some point you are going to have to decide if you want to be a doctor or if you want to be a MD only. But only you can make that decision. If, you decide to go DO get a letter from the DO you shadowed. But if you had been open to DO you might be well into med school at this time.

 

[acha9349]

Thank you so much! It looks like my best shot is to have a DO only cycle this year. I will try to have a school list soon and ask for more advices. I appreciate it!

 

[Faha]

Thank you so much! It looks like my best shot is to have a DO only cycle this year. I will try to have a school list soon and ask for more advices. I appreciate it!

I suggest these DO schools with your stats:
WESTERN
TUCOM-CA
TUNCOM
AZCOM
UIWSOM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
DMU-COM
CUSOM
MU-COM
CCOM
WVSOM
PCOM
LECOM
NYITCOM
Touro-NY

 

[group_theory]

I did not apply to DO schools because I want to be able to practice medicine in other countries in the future. I heard DO license doesn't get qualified for many countries.

I might be applying to DO schools for the next cycle, but I want to try my best to be prepared for a MD school.

For South Korea, as a US trained DO, in order to gain practice rights, you'll need
1) approval of the applicant’s medical school by the Ministry of Public Health and Welfare, 2) successful completion of a qualifying exam which includes a clinical skills test and written test, and 3) successful completion of the Korean Medical Licensing Exam (KMLE).

Joshua Son, DO (NYITCOM '19) appears to be the first US trained DO on the path to achieved this distinction if he haven't already

Steps taken toward practice rights for DOs in South Korea - The DO

New partnership with South Korea promotes practice rights for DOs, collaborative research and global awareness of manipulative medicine.

thedo.osteopathic.org

DOs go global: What to know about practicing osteopathic medicine abroad

Find out the steps to take if you're interested in practicing internationally. Also, learn why recognition of the profession overseas has advanced in recent years.

thedo.osteopathic.org

With regards to other countries - see map below

https://osteopathic.org/wp-content/uploads/USDO-licensure-map.png

However, make sure you are OK with the fact that you will be trained as a DO, which means learning OMT, taking COMLEX (required) in addition to USMLE (optional), and depending on the states you are licensed, may have AOA CME requirements

 

[acha9349]

I suggest these DO schools with your stats:
WESTERN
TUCOM-CA
TUNCOM
AZCOM
UIWSOM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
DMU-COM
CUSOM
MU-COM
CCOM
WVSOM
PCOM
LECOM
NYITCOM
Touro-NY

Wow Thank you so much!! I will definitely go through this list!

 

[acha9349]

For South Korea, as a US trained DO, in order to gain practice rights, you'll need
1) approval of the applicant’s medical school by the Ministry of Public Health and Welfare, 2) successful completion of a qualifying exam which includes a clinical skills test and written test, and 3) successful completion of the Korean Medical Licensing Exam (KMLE).

Joshua Son, DO (NYITCOM '19) appears to be the first US trained DO on the path to achieved this distinction if he haven't already

Steps taken toward practice rights for DOs in South Korea - The DO

New partnership with South Korea promotes practice rights for DOs, collaborative research and global awareness of manipulative medicine.

thedo.osteopathic.org

DOs go global: What to know about practicing osteopathic medicine abroad

Find out the steps to take if you're interested in practicing internationally. Also, learn why recognition of the profession overseas has advanced in recent years.

thedo.osteopathic.org

With regards to other countries - see map below

https://osteopathic.org/wp-content/uploads/USDO-licensure-map.png

However, make sure you are OK with the fact that you will be trained as a DO, which means learning OMT, taking COMLEX (required) in addition to USMLE (optional), and depending on the states you are licensed, may have AOA CME requirements

I actually like the trainings that DOs go through. I avoided it solely for wanting to practice medicine abroad. I researched more too and found out that more countries are now open to have DO doctors as qualified physicians, which is a good news to me. Your referred articles helped me a lot too, and I appreciate your research into this specific topic. Thanks so much!!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I actually like the trainings that DOs go through. I avoided it solely for wanting to practice medicine abroad. I researched more too and found out that more countries are now open to have DO doctors as qualified physicians, which is a good news to me. Your referred articles helped me a lot too, and I appreciate your research into this specific topic. Thanks so much!!

The key point is to actually do the homework and see what the future is like. The fear that DO's couldn't practice abroad has been around for quite a while, and it is to the credit of the Osteopathic International Alliance that they have made headway over the last decade on this.

International Licensure

Looking to practice medicine abroad? The AOA works to expand practice rights and international licensure for osteopathic physicians across the globe.

osteopathic.org

DOs go global: What to know about practicing osteopathic medicine abroad

Find out the steps to take if you're interested in practicing internationally. Also, learn why recognition of the profession overseas has advanced in recent years.

thedo.osteopathic.org

 

[acha9349]

The key point is to actually do the homework and see what the future is like. The fear that DO's couldn't practice abroad has been around for quite a while, and it is to the credit of the Osteopathic International Alliance that they have made headway over the last decade on this.

International Licensure

Looking to practice medicine abroad? The AOA works to expand practice rights and international licensure for osteopathic physicians across the globe.

osteopathic.org

DOs go global: What to know about practicing osteopathic medicine abroad

Find out the steps to take if you're interested in practicing internationally. Also, learn why recognition of the profession overseas has advanced in recent years.

thedo.osteopathic.org

Yes! I'm very grateful that they've been pushing through this issue and that there are some people who were successful. I will do a lot of research and find out what the life of a DO doctor abroad would be like by the time I can practice medicine Thank you so much!

 

[chilly_md]

I see. Thank you for your insight. For the DO only cycle, would it be too late for me to apply for this cycle then? I haven't prepared for the essays or anything yet..

Also, if I retake MCAT and get a better score, would I have a better chance to get into MD or should I just focus on getting into DO schools with my scores and experiences?

You can apply in July and be fine. The personal statement is often identical. Activity descriptions may need to be modified.

 

[acha9349]

You can apply in July and be fine. The personal statement is often identical. Activity descriptions may need to be modified.

Does DO personal statement have to somewhat describe why we would choose to go to DO instead of MD or just describe why we want to be a physician in general? I'm not sure if I can use the identical one or need to modify it to be specific for DO.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Does DO personal statement have to somewhat describe why we would choose to go to DO instead of MD or just describe why we want to be a physician in general? I'm not sure if I can use the identical one or need to modify it to be specific for DO.

Have you screened or pre-written your secondary essays for the DO schools yet? You will find opportunities to discuss why DO/their school and may have a chance to discuss your understanding of osteopathic medicine.

 

[acha9349]

Have you screened or pre-written your secondary essays for the DO schools yet? You will find opportunities to discuss why DO/their school and may have a chance to discuss your understanding of osteopathic medicine.

Oh I just looked through AACOMAS but not the secondary essays yet. I will start working on them. Thank you so much!

 

[group_theory]

Does DO personal statement have to somewhat describe why we would choose to go to DO instead of MD or just describe why we want to be a physician in general? I'm not sure if I can use the identical one or need to modify it to be specific for DO.

Depends on the school. Some schools are more interested in training physicians, while others put greater emphasis on training "osteopathic" physicians. Also look at the school's mission statement - if it's to improve rural healthcare, then your background may not fit that school's mission

Check through SDN post histories of various schools that you may apply to get a sense of what they are looking for.

If I was interviewing you, seeing the time gap between year of UG graduation and application - I would probably ask why you didn't apply DO the first (or second) round? It's not a deal breaker in any sense but it will give me insight on why you want to be a physician, why DO, your thought process, etc.

 

[chilly_md]

Does DO personal statement have to somewhat describe why we would choose to go to DO instead of MD or just describe why we want to be a physician in general? I'm not sure if I can use the identical one or need to modify it to be specific for DO.

There are multiple avenues this could pop up, including secondaries (as Mr Smile pointed out) as well as interview questions. AACOMAS made the character limit 5300 (same as AMCAS) a while back, so take that how you will. Small modifications can be made as well.

 

[MD_Maker]

It would be helpful to know what schools you applied to previously. Did you hit all the CA DO schools? How broadly did you apply in terms of OOS public and private last cycle?

Also, how is your application significantly different this year and are you well-positioned to be applying at all?

 

[acha9349]

Depends on the school. Some schools are more interested in training physicians, while others put greater emphasis on training "osteopathic" physicians. Also look at the school's mission statement - if it's to improve rural healthcare, then your background may not fit that school's mission

Check through SDN post histories of various schools that you may apply to get a sense of what they are looking for.

If I was interviewing you, seeing the time gap between year of UG graduation and application - I would probably ask why you didn't apply DO the first (or second) round? It's not a deal breaker in any sense but it will give me insight on why you want to be a physician, why DO, your thought process, etc.

Okay, I will look into what each school is looking for through their websites and SDN posts.

Would answering the question why I didn't apply DO the first time with something like I wanted to have a better chance of practicing medicine abroad in the future a bad answer,,.? of course supplementing it with the admiration of ostheopathic approach to medicine.

 

[acha9349]

It would be helpful to know what schools you applied to previously. Did you hit all the CA DO schools? How broadly did you apply in terms of OOS public and private last cycle?

Also, how is your application significantly different this year and are you well-positioned to be applying at all?

I haven't applied to DO schools yet. It would be my first cycle for DO schools!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Would answering the question why I didn't apply DO the first time with something like I wanted to have a better chance of practicing medicine abroad in the future a bad answer,,.? of course supplementing it with the admiration of ostheopathic approach to medicine.

I don't know if DO schools would ask applicants "why didn't you apply DO the first time?" That's like asking, "why didn't you ask me out on a date?" I don't think DO schools behave like this... or is there really an incentive to. Most of us in admissions are happy you applied to us at all.

Second, yes, that's a bad answer. It shows your lack of doing due diligence and letting "rumors" guide your decision-making. Putting the butter on the bread of why you admire the DO philosophy at the end is... like having the free bread be given to you after dessert. I just don't pay attention to that.

 

[candbgirl]

Okay, I will look into what each school is looking for through their websites and SDN posts.

Would answering the question why I didn't apply DO the first time with something like I wanted to have a better chance of practicing medicine abroad in the future a bad answer,,.? of course supplementing it with the admiration of ostheopathic approach to medicine.

Do you plan to leave the US and go back to Korea when you finish your training?

 

[acha9349]

I don't know if DO schools would ask applicants "why didn't you apply DO the first time?" That's like asking, "why didn't you ask me out on a date?" I don't think DO schools behave like this... or is there really an incentive to. Most of us in admissions are happy you applied to us at all.

Second, yes, that's a bad answer. It shows your lack of doing due diligence and letting "rumors" guide your decision-making. Putting the butter on the bread of why you admire the DO philosophy at the end is... like having the free bread be given to you after dessert. I just don't pay attention to that.

Oh haha I see. Thank you

 

[acha9349]

Do you plan to leave the US and go back to Korea when you finish your training?

I'm not sure what I'll decide to do later, but I want to leave it as an option. I might decide to stay in the US or change my mind and go to Korea right after training or after working a bit in the US and then go back. Right now though, my thought is to work in the US for a few years after training and go to Korea. No concrete answer yet :/

Can I ask why you asked the question..? I'm very tentative to answer it to admissions or other people too because I would think that they want us to stay in the US to practice medicine after training us.