Step 2 CS January 2020 Score Release

[RHL ONE]

Anyone else waiting for score release on January 29th 2020? 7.5 weeks is a long time especially when you made dumb mistakes on the exam and you begin doubting if you truly passed or not. This wait is a killer.

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[shtumpa]

Didn’t get score, computer probably failed me again...

There’s always unlicensed plumbing work.

 

[hopefulbumblebe]

Didn’t get score, computer probably failed me again...

There’s always unlicensed plumbing work.

Are you an AMG? Did your Print Permit disappear? And when did you take the exam?

 

[pbrocks15]

Didn’t get score, computer probably failed me again...

There’s always unlicensed plumbing work.

When did you take your exam?

I took mine on 11/18 and also didnt get my score. Is this a bad sign?

 

[scrub2scrubs]

I also took mine on 11/18 (PM time) and didn't get my score. Permit is still there. Hopefully next Wednesday..

 

[pbrocks15]

I also took mine on 11/18 (PM time) and didn't get my score. Permit is still there. Hopefully next Wednesday..

How did you feel the exam went overall?

 

[hopefulbumblebe]

I also took mine on 11/18 (PM time) and didn't get my score. Permit is still there. Hopefully next Wednesday..

Hope you guys hear soon. That's a long time to wait..

 

[scrub2scrubs]

How did you feel the exam went overall?

It's hard to say especially because it was almost 10 weeks ago and my memory of the test is fading. I think overall I felt ok, I definitely forgot a lot of things in the physical exam and was rushed for time on a few of them, but felt that I did enough to pass.

 

[shtumpa]

Are you an AMG? Did your Print Permit disappear? And when did you take the exam?

12/30 doubt it matters anymore, computer grading should be instantaneous. Unless it failed me and humans will grade it which means unlikely I passed, as they average scores.

 

[shtumpa]

I don’t know why they don’t send passing scores within days

 

[hopefulbumblebe]

12/30 doubt it matters anymore, computer grading should be instantaneous. Unless it failed me and humans will grade it which means unlikely I passed, as they average scores.

I took my test the week of 12/24 - 12/27. But still have my Print Permit. Did your Print Permit disappear?

 

[shtumpa]

No

 

[hopefulbumblebe]

No

We're probably getting our scores after our Print Permit option disappears, based on what everyone has said in previous posts.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

12/30 doubt it matters anymore, computer grading should be instantaneous. Unless it failed me and humans will grade it which means unlikely I passed, as they average scores.

I wouldn’t say this is necessarily the case. A human grades the note if the computer graded you in the bottom 50%, so it doesn’t mean you failed if this is even the cause for the delay.

 

[hopefulbumblebe]

I wouldn’t say this is necessarily the case. A human grades the note if the computer graded you in the bottom 50%, so it doesn’t mean you failed if this is even the cause for the delay.

I don't think ALL the grading has been supplanted by a computer. I find it hard to believe that all 12 cases would be solely computer graded, and that only those in the bottom 50% would be checked by an actual human.

 

[frozenbananas]

I also took mine on 11/18 (PM time) and didn't get my score. Permit is still there. Hopefully next Wednesday..

anyone know if this is a good or bad sign?

 

[scrub2scrubs]

This is from the USMLE CS website:

United States Medical Licensing Examination | Step 2 CS (Clinical Skills)

For each "Testing Period" in the above schedule, Step 2 CS scores are released every Wednesday over a corresponding four-to five-week "Reporting Period." It is expected that results for the vast majority of examinees who take the exam during the testing period will be reported on the first Wednesday of the Reporting Period. Results for 98%-99% of examinees who take the exam during the testing period are reported by the third Wednesday in a Reporting Period. For a small percentage of examinees (1%-2%), scoring and quality assurance may be not completed in time for these examinees to be reported by the first three reporting dates; these will typically be examinees who took the exam in the latter part of the testing period. Results for these examinees will be reported each week throughout the reporting period, and should be reported no later than the last day of the score reporting period.

This schedule allows USMLE staff to enhance the quality assurance and data collection/scoring procedures performed prior to score reporting. Additionally, it provides examinees, as well as others who rely on Step 2 CS results, with guidelines regarding when a result will be reported for a given exam date. These guidelines allow examinees to plan their exam registration and scheduling in order to have their results in time to meet specific deadlines, such as those related to graduation or participation in the National Resident Matching Program (NRMP), or "the Match."


So we should definitely hear something either next Wednesday or the one after.

 

[Zollingerelli]

When did you take your exam?

I took mine on 11/18 and also didnt get my score. Is this a bad sign?

It is not a bad sign at all. I got my score on third Wednesday of the reporting period and it was all good. I had a couple of my friends who took the exam 4 weeks after me and they got their score 1st Wednesday of the score reporting.

 

[shtumpa]

Ok hopefully I’m wrong sorry for scaring people

 

[Prguy]

Took exam 12/3 and did not receive score today. I think it may be due to the fact that I had to do one of the patient notes on a sheet of paper due to a random error on the computer. I am wondering if anyone else experience the same thing on test day? And did you receive your score back or no?

 

[hopefulbumblebe]

I'm an AMG and the FCVS trick worked for my STEP 2 CK. Strange how it doesn't work for AMG's anymore

 

[pbrocks15]

It is not a bad sign at all. I got my score on third Wednesday of the reporting period and it was all good. I had a couple of my friends who took the exam 4 weeks after me and they got their score 1st Wednesday of the score reporting.

Alright this is great news to me because with all this talk about the person grading after a computer makes me feel like I failed and then the actual person had to grade my test. It seems like that isnt the case though.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

I don't think ALL the grading has been supplanted by a computer. I find it hard to believe that all 12 cases would be solely computer graded, and that only those in the bottom 50% would be checked by an actual human.

You appear to be right on this. It appears that only some cases are computer graded. I also like how they say: don’t worry, this won’t change the price of the exam. That’s the NBME giving us the middle finger because you know they’re saving money on this.

The United States Medical Licensing Examination® (USMLE®) program is committed to applying the best available technology and the most current assessment practices to ensure accuracy and validity for all its examination programs. Beginning October 2019, computer-assisted scoring technology will be used to score patient notes created by examinees for the USMLE Step 2 Clinical Skills (CS) examination.

The use of computer-assisted scoring will not change the cost of the exam, nor the timing with which examinees receive their scores. The computer-assisted scoring program is based on the scoring rubrics developed by experienced physician note raters. For cases in which computer-assisted scoring is used, notes with machine scores below the 50th percentile in performance will also be scored by physician patient note raters. The machine scores and physician scores will then be averaged to produce the examinee’s score on the patient note portion of the Step 2 CS exam.

Much consideration has gone into the implementation of computer-assisted scoring. Most importantly, the crucial role of clinical judgment in the evaluation of Step 2 CS performances will be preserved. Second, the examinee experience will not be adversely affected. The expert judgment of physicians will be used on an ongoing basis for the development of patient note scoring guidelines and in the training of the computer-based scoring system.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

We should be able to write off our CS expenses on our taxes as a charitable contribution, because that’s what it really is.

 

[swiftaspirations]

PASSED! I'm very thankful. There were two #1 diagnoses that I know I missed. I put one #3 diagnosis that was out of left field and just 100% wrong. Missed some physical exam findings because I had convinced myself that I couldn't possibly be witnessing real pathology in a standardized patient. I did not go bottom to top on the note as many people have suggested. Honestly, the cases were more challenging than I expected, and not as straightforward as the cases in First Aid. The standardized patients don't really give a lot of information with open-ended questions, so you need to have a good ROS to catch everything. I would say you have to support each diagnosis with at least three things. The pertinent negatives are very important. I did not counsel on smoking cessation in every patient, so I don't really know how much that counted against me. I did a closure for each encounter and took the full 15 minutes, so the note writing portion was rushed. I didn't sleep at all the night before, so I had to drink a ton of caffeine.

 

[pbrocks15]

You appear to be right on this. It appears that only some cases are computer graded. I also like how they say: don’t worry, this won’t change the price of the exam. That’s the NBME giving us the middle finger because you know they’re saving money on this.

The United States Medical Licensing Examination® (USMLE®) program is committed to applying the best available technology and the most current assessment practices to ensure accuracy and validity for all its examination programs. Beginning October 2019, computer-assisted scoring technology will be used to score patient notes created by examinees for the USMLE Step 2 Clinical Skills (CS) examination.

The use of computer-assisted scoring will not change the cost of the exam, nor the timing with which examinees receive their scores. The computer-assisted scoring program is based on the scoring rubrics developed by experienced physician note raters. For cases in which computer-assisted scoring is used, notes with machine scores below the 50th percentile in performance will also be scored by physician patient note raters. The machine scores and physician scores will then be averaged to produce the examinee’s score on the patient note portion of the Step 2 CS exam.

Much consideration has gone into the implementation of computer-assisted scoring. Most importantly, the crucial role of clinical judgment in the evaluation of Step 2 CS performances will be preserved. Second, the examinee experience will not be adversely affected. The expert judgment of physicians will be used on an ongoing basis for the development of patient note scoring guidelines and in the training of the computer-based scoring system.

This sucks. Why is a computer grading it?? I feel like I probably missed the key words.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

This sucks. Why is a computer grading it?? I feel like I probably missed the key words.

The computer is grading it so the USMLE people can save money and profit even more.

 

[shtumpa]

NBME Executive Board | NBME

Print it out and pee on it, therapeutic.

 

[Lilyhopeless]

NBME Executive Board | NBME

Print it out and pee on it, therapeutic.

I actually did it in a very similar sense; I burned it... You can do it as often as necessary. It is therapeutic; much better than the school-provided psychotherapist for me!

It actually has a synergistic effect with cussing it too...

 

[pbrocks15]

I just hope the fact that it's taking my exam longer to grade that it doesn't mean anything bad.

I can imagine that if the computer score needs to be double checked then it's likely to cause a delay and having taken the exam on 11/18 I feel like this might be possible.


I'm trying not to stress it but its killing me. Hopefully I get the score next week and get this pain over with. Why is this worse than step 1 and ck??

 

[StrangeDoctorIM]

Passed - but thats not the point. The point is: we need to end ppl suffering from the agony of this exam: the waiting, the financial burden, and for those who fail, the possibility of losing out on residency/career/graduation for which they worked so hard for.

Sign the Petition — End Step 2 CS

Sign this, pass it on to your friends, whatever you gotta do.

Also, anybody got any lawyer friends? Could medical students file a class action suit against NBME on the grounds of deceptive practices (nontransparency ins grading process) and emotional distress?

 

[Dantrolene FC]

Passed - but thats not the point. The point is: we need to end ppl suffering from the agony of this exam: the waiting, the financial burden, and for those who fail, the possibility of losing out on residency/career/graduation for which they worked so hard for.

Sign the Petition — End Step 2 CS

Sign this, pass it on to your friends, whatever you gotta do.

Also, anybody got any lawyer friends? Could medical students file a class action suit against NBME on the grounds of deceptive practices (nontransparency ins grading process) and emotional distress?

The issue with the NBME/FSMB is they’re a government enforced monopoly with no independent oversight committee. If they wanted to make Step 1 cost $100k, they could and there’s nothing you could do about it. Granted, in this extreme of a case, the states would somehow step in after 2 years of complaints.

Most people don’t know this, but there used to be two medical licensing exams and you could choose which one you wanted, kinda like the ACT vs SAT. There was the NBME and the FSMB. But they merged in the early ‘90s and now the NBME writes Step 1 and 2 CK, the FSMB writes Step 3, and they both co-write Step 2 CS.

 

[shtumpa]

Why is the pass rate still emphasized on this petition LOL

 

[SoYouDontWantaFishSandwch]

Regarding the petition, should it really focus only on US MDs? Can a program not evaluate an applicant’s communication skills in an interview? They already have to pass step 1 and step 2 ck.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

Regarding the petition, should it really focus only on US MDs? Can a program not evaluate an applicant’s communication skills in an interview? They already have to pass step 1 and step 2 ck.

The only argument we need is there hasn’t been better patient outcomes since Step 2 CS came out. I couldn’t imagine a single patient dying because their American educated doctor didn’t pass CS, but still passed all their other exams.

 

[sella.turcica]

The only argument we need is there hasn’t been better patient outcomes since Step 2 CS came out. I couldn’t imagine a single patient dying because their American educated doctor didn’t pass CS, but still passed all their other exams.

The problem with that argument is that there are no doctors who didn't pass CS. There is no negative control here. Everybody has to eventually pass CS to provide patient care so one could argue that even though someone fails CS, the fact that they pass it might make them a better doctor.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

The problem with that argument is that there are no doctors who didn't pass CS. There is no negative control here. Everybody has to eventually pass CS to provide patient care so one could argue that even though someone fails CS, the fact that they pass it might make them a better doctor.

Our control group would be the doctors who graduated before CS was a thing.

 

[Doctor1959]

Yes because you send your USMLE transcript which shows all attempts with all passes/fails/scores. Moreover, if they do not yet have your USMLE transcript with a Step 2CS score they will ask for it as most require a Step 2CS to rank you. I hope that helps.

I appreciate your explanation. Thank you

 

[SoYouDontWantaFishSandwch]

The only argument we need is there hasn’t been better patient outcomes since Step 2 CS came out. I couldn’t imagine a single patient dying because their American educated doctor didn’t pass CS, but still passed all their other exams.

My point was that we don’t have to continue to screw over IMGs either. They also passed the other exams. They still have to pass interview (or in reality, audition). Why rob them as well. They are part of our community.

 

[FMDoge2020]

Passed - but thats not the point. The point is: we need to end ppl suffering from the agony of this exam: the waiting, the financial burden, and for those who fail, the possibility of losing out on residency/career/graduation for which they worked so hard for.

Sign the Petition — End Step 2 CS

Sign this, pass it on to your friends, whatever you gotta do.

Also, anybody got any lawyer friends? Could medical students file a class action suit against NBME on the grounds of deceptive practices (nontransparency ins grading process) and emotional distress?

They have not had any updates since 2017...I wonder if this movement is still active.

Sent from my SM-G965U using SDN mobile

 

[mcat_taker]

I don't think ALL the grading has been supplanted by a computer. I find it hard to believe that all 12 cases would be solely computer graded, and that only those in the bottom 50% would be checked by an actual human.

You can read about it on the official NBME website for CS. The notes are computer graded now and if the computer grades you below the 50th percentile or something your note gets graded by a human grader and the two scores are averaged.

 

[mcat_taker]

This sucks. Why is a computer grading it?? I feel like I probably missed the key words.

The computer grading software was developed by the physician note graders to basically grade the same way they would

 

[mcat_taker]

I also took mine on 11/18 (PM time) and didn't get my score. Permit is still there. Hopefully next Wednesday..

God I feel for everyone who didn't get scores yesterday. I would not be able to handle another week of waiting. I was at my breaking point. Thank god I found out good news yesterday cause I was losing my mind. Hang in there guys.

 

[mcat_taker]

First off, big congratulations to everyone who passed! Putting this horrible exam behind you forever must feel amazing.

So I’m a fourth year AMG and I got my results today. I failed ICE. This was my first attempt. I’ve already been on 15 interviews for this upcoming match cycle and I’m freaking the f*** out. I don’t know if I should order a score recheck, speak with my dean, hit up the programs I applied to, etc.

My school has a policy that you must have a passing step 1, CS, and CK score by February 26th or they remove from the match. At this point it’s too late to retake and get my score in time.

Has anyone ever heard of a score changing from fail to pass after a CS score recheck? i just don’t know where to even begin. Suicide is painless

@Babinski66 Sorry to hear man. I was in the same boat last year failing ICE but thankfully just passed my second attempt. Lots of people fail this exam these days. I know how frustrating it is because of the lack of feedback you get on the score report.

So my understanding is that for IMGs you get withdrawn from the match by ECFMG automatically if they don't have a passing score by the rank list deadline that is why most IMGs don't get many interviews without a passing score because it is too risky for programs to interview those people. For IMGs especially it is important to apply with a complete app in September.

For AMGs many of them take CS in the spring of 4th year and thus can match without CS. I would schedule a retake and not update your USMLE transcript on ERAS until you get a passing score. This way programs will not know you failed until after the match. Programs will still rank you in the meantime. Sure it might hurt you with some programs if they check and don't see a score but there's nothing else you can do at this point.

BUT I would also talk to your dean because I have never heard of an American school withdrawing anyone from the match without a CS score.

I know it sucks to fail this exam. Don't order a recheck it won't make a difference. Just reschedule and study more. Practice cases with people having them be your patient, get through all the FA cases, and mini cases, write out your notes under timed conditions using the software and compare to FA notes. Review physical exams. Practice practice practice. Luckily for me when I retook the exam all my friends had already taken CS so I could play doctor for every case and not have to alternate with anyone to have them practice on me.

If needed get a tutor and Skype practice with them if you don't have any friends to practice with. If you really feel poorly prepared do a live course.

And finally just remember you're not alone and seek help if you're really feeling down. I have a friend who got a 270 on CK and was the nicest most well adjusted normal med student and failed this stupid exam. It's not a reflection of your intelligence.

And stay off SDN when you are studying or waiting on scores. No one knows how this exam is graded and no one can remember all their encounters. Looking at people's bars and mistakes made is just wasting time. I spent way too much time on the internet constantly trying to get more info about this exam. You don't need to be perfect to pass. I definitely wasn't. And just remember you only need 2-3 Xs to the right of borderline to pass.

 

[Babinski66]

@Babinski66 Sorry to hear man. I was in the same boat last year failing ICE but thankfully just passed my second attempt. Lots of people fail this exam these days. I know how frustrating it is because of the lack of feedback you get on the score report.

So my understanding is that for IMGs you get withdrawn from the match by ECFMG automatically if they don't have a passing score by the rank list deadline that is why most IMGs don't get many interviews without a passing score because it is too risky for programs to interview those people. For IMGs especially it is important to apply with a complete app in September.

For AMGs many of them take CS in the spring of 4th year and thus can match without CS. I would schedule a retake and not update your USMLE transcript on ERAS until you get a passing score. This way programs will not know you failed until after the match. Programs will still rank you in the meantime. Sure it might hurt you with some programs if they check and don't see a score but there's nothing else you can do at this point.

BUT I would also talk to your dean because I have never heard of an American school withdrawing anyone from the match without a CS score.

I know it sucks to fail this exam. Don't order a recheck it won't make a difference. Just reschedule and study more. Practice cases with people having them be your patient, get through all the FA cases, and mini cases, write out your notes under timed conditions using the software and compare to FA notes. Review physical exams. Practice practice practice. Luckily for me when I retook the exam all my friends had already taken CS so I could play doctor for every case and not have to alternate with anyone to have them practice on me.

If needed get a tutor and Skype practice with them if you don't have any friends to practice with. If you really feel poorly prepared do a live course.

And finally just remember you're not alone and seek help if you're really feeling down. I have a friend who got a 270 on CK and was the nicest most well adjusted normal med student and failed this stupid exam. It's not a reflection of your intelligence.

And stay off SDN when you are studying or waiting on scores. No one knows how this exam is graded and no one can remember all their encounters. Looking at people's bars and mistakes made is just wasting time. I spent way too much time on the internet constantly trying to get more info about this exam. You don't need to be perfect to pass. I definitely wasn't. And just remember you only need 2-3 Xs to the right of borderline to pass.

Thank you for reaching out and sharing your personal experience. Yesterday was awful but I'm feeling better and more motivated to put this exam behind me forever. I'm gonna study intensely for the next few weeks and take a live course just so I can be sure I've identified all weaknesses.

I spoke with my dean yesterday about the CS policy. They gave me the option of appealing the policy so I can stay in the match, but that in itself is a process with slim chances of success. I'll go through the appeals process but the policy itself makes no sense to me since NRMP allows AMGs to match without CS

 

[shtumpa]

Oh is this the origina

My point was that we don’t have to continue to screw over IMGs either. They also passed the other exams. They still have to pass interview (or in reality, audition). Why rob them as well. They are part of our community.

Thank you for reaching out and sharing your personal experience. Yesterday was awful but I'm feeling better and more motivated to put this exam behind me forever. I'm gonna study intensely for the next few weeks and take a live course just so I can be sure I've identified all weaknesses.

I spoke with my dean yesterday about the CS policy. They gave me the option of appealing the policy so I can stay in the match, but that in itself is a process with slim chances of success. I'll go through the appeals process but the policy itself makes no sense to me since NRMP allows AMGs to match without CS

As a fall back argument if you do release your fail I cant fathom how they can argue it’s fair to withdraw you from the match if a residency program is willing to match you anyway pending a retake - (Last year someone mentioned that they matched to one of the only programs who reached out and he/she let them know about the fail!!)

 

[Lilyhopeless]

Thank you for reaching out and sharing your personal experience. Yesterday was awful but I'm feeling better and more motivated to put this exam behind me forever. I'm gonna study intensely for the next few weeks and take a live course just so I can be sure I've identified all weaknesses.

I spoke with my dean yesterday about the CS policy. They gave me the option of appealing the policy so I can stay in the match, but that in itself is a process with slim chances of success. I'll go through the appeals process but the policy itself makes no sense to me since NRMP allows AMGs to match without CS

What @shtumpa said is very good, try to argue that it is an unfair policy that punishes you twice (borderline on double jeopardy in legal term or unusual and cruel punishment) if they were to refuse to certify you for graduation. The first punishment is that you are in danger of being unranked by programs for having no CS ready for them and if they refuse to certify you, they punish you again for making sure not only you will not match but you will also not able to access the soap. This is really unfair.

The other argument is that the NRMP actually cautions the school to be very careful to withdraw students from the match if there are reasons to believe the students can graduate on-time. It is actually said so in the NRMP manual to medical schools.

Also, this can be a good argument: Research from the all the programs that you have interviewed website whether they will require a CS pass by ROL or not. If they don't need the CS, print them out and bring them with you to the appeal to say that you have reasonable chances for match success. The more schools that don't require the CS, the better. It will be so heartless if your school actively works to throw you out of the match.

Note: Do not call programs to inquire! You don't want to remind them you have a blank on CS period.

Lastly, you should also make this argument too: while it is true that the NRMP requires the school to certify whether senior students will graduate on-time, the NRMP's definition of on-time is before July 1st. From the USMLE website, there are theoretically 2 more reporting periods before July 1st. So, for your school to forced withdraw you is very unseemly.

Also, what is your school doing? It is insane for an American school! Forced withdraw a student for having no CS by Feb 28th?!? My friend, a 4th-year, just did his CS January, his CS result will only come out in March! The school did not even bat an eyelash over it. He, however, is cussing himself for his procrastination. If he failed, he will be in a pickle to try to have the result by July 1st.

 

[shtumpa]

If there are actual clinical faculty on the board you should be able to make a good case, at least enough to swing someone to advocate for you.

Show a slide with all the faculty members who have given you good clinical/OSCE grades and ask them if they trust a secret computer algorithm more than their own clinical staff.

 

[shtumpa]

There’s gotta be someone on that board who hates CS anyway

 

[shtumpa]

Also try to get support ahead of time from faculty. There’s gotta be some faculty members who will be p***ed that they would do that, maybe they can help u with appeal. Look if any of them have publicly commented on CS previously.

 

[shtumpa]

"NRMP recommends students NOT be withdrawn unless it is known CONCLUSIVELY they will not graduate on time to enter training on July 1."

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/For-Schools-Grad-Credentials-Verification.pdf

For graduation you must have MD/DO degree OR ECGME certification (which itself requires step 2 CS, explaining that requirement for IMG) OR another pathway as delineated by ACGME (https://www.acgme.org/Portals/0/PFA...equirements2018.pdf?ver=2018-02-19-132236-600).

The point of verification is to verify that the student will graduate on time and be eligible to practice. Which explains the NRMP statement, as almost no students are eligible already for graduation at the time of the match (i.e. still need to complete required rotations or elective credits)

(basically, your school is acting against the recommendation of the NRMP, another important point to bring up)