Salary Survey

[DocMom1]

Here's my recent situation (recent residency graduate from mid-tier program, not fellowship trained, recently changed positions after a competing hospital recruited me)

Base $435,000 [ 7 on 7 off, Central Florida]; no night call; no outpatient clinic.
4 weeks vacation
Productivity bonus can be worth $50-100,000 depending on RVUs generated, I am on target to earn a 75K bonus.
Benefits include malpractice insurance, medical & dental insurance, $2000 CME; 2.5% 401k match


On target with paying off my medical school loans by 2/2021

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[Punydoc]

Threads like these are so informative! Thank you for getting this started OP! Hope more people can contribute. I’m just an interested OMS3, so don’t mind me 🙂

 

[Telamir]

Take this with a pinch of salt, as I think this thread might self-select some "higher earners"

Graduated from name brand place, neurophys fellowship, epilepsy boarded.

Neuro-Hospitalist 7 on 7 off alternating week of days and nights. Week of nights can be done partly from home, week of days is rougher/high volume.
Pay: 373,000 w/ usual benefits (healthcare, malpractice, dental, 401k etc, 5k CME). 15k bonus per year if the whole group hits some target. I'm salaried. Consult only service, census typically 10-15/day (as high as 18-20) w/ 1 NP +/- 1 medicine resident.

1 week vacation (really 3 weeks since it's flanked by 2 weeks off). I can pick up extra shifts/make more if needed.

I've done some weeks of locums here and there which were pretty lucrative as well.

Sounds like I need to go back to Florida!

Also hopefully this thread doesn't generate the wrong kind of attention...

 

[Postictal Raiden]

There isn't a lot of transparency regarding salary/benefits for those on the neurology job search. This allows employers unfair advantages in contract negotiations due to information asymmetries (see Ramachandran, Gowri. "Pay transparency." Penn St. L. Rev.116 (2011): 1043; Estlund, Cynthia. "Extending the case for workplace transparency to information about pay and benefits." UC Irvine L. Rev. 4 (2014): 781]. I saw this style survey in another thread and thought it could help shed light on norms for those entering the job search

Anyone on the job search or currently working, please post salary info and job setup.

Here's my recent situation (recent residency graduate from mid-tier program, not fellowship trained, recently changed positions after a competing hospital recruited me)

Base $435,000 [neurohospitalist 7 on 7 off, Central Florida]; no night call; no outpatient clinic.
4 weeks vacation
Productivity bonus can be worth $50-100,000 depending on RVUs generated, I am on target to earn a 75K bonus.
Benefits include malpractice insurance, medical & dental insurance, $2000 CME; 2.5% 401k match

Earlier in the year I did 2 weeks of locums neurohospitalist work in a neighboring state that was exceptionally lucrative, generating $38,000 over the two weeks of inpatient call.

On target with paying off my medical school loans by 2/2021

So you only work 22 weeks a year given than you have 4 weeks vacation?

 

[sharkbaitwhohaha]

My future employment
-Large metropolitan city (not LA, SF, Boston, NY, as those cities are likely different markets)
-outpatient only, no hospital call
-mix of procedures (EMG/EEG, botox)
-4 weeks PTO, plus all holidays all
-medical, malpractice, 3% match 401K, <$10K sign on bonus, $2500 CME
-straight salary 300K with bonus for RVU collections

very happy.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

My future employment
-Large metropolitan city (not LA, SF, Boston, NY, as those cities are likely different markets)
-outpatient only, no hospital call
-mix of procedures (EMG/EEG, botox)
-4 weeks PTO, plus all holidays all
-medical, malpractice, 3% match 401K, <$10K sign on bonus, $2500 CME
-straight salary 300K with bonus for RVU collections

very happy.

M-F 8-5? Expected patient load and new:f/u ratio?

 

[sharkbaitwhohaha]

yes. 30min new and 30min fu. Typically about 16-20 patients depending the the day and other procedures.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

yes. 30min new and 30min fu. Typically about 16-20 patients depending the the day and other procedures.

I hope your RVU collection bonus be 50K+ because with EEGs/EMGs/botox, you'll be brining 700K+ in gross revenue.

 

[Splenda88]

There isn't a lot of transparency regarding salary/benefits for those on the neurology job search. This allows employers unfair advantages in contract negotiations due to information asymmetries (see Ramachandran, Gowri. "Pay transparency." Penn St. L. Rev.116 (2011): 1043; Estlund, Cynthia. "Extending the case for workplace transparency to information about pay and benefits." UC Irvine L. Rev. 4 (2014): 781]. I saw this style survey in another thread and thought it could help shed light on norms for those entering the job search

Anyone on the job search or currently working, please post salary info and job setup.

Here's my recent situation (recent residency graduate from mid-tier program, not fellowship trained, recently changed positions after a competing hospital recruited me)

Base $435,000 [neurohospitalist 7 on 7 off, Central Florida]; no night call; no outpatient clinic.
4 weeks vacation
Productivity bonus can be worth $50-100,000 depending on RVUs generated, I am on target to earn a 75K bonus.
Benefits include malpractice insurance, medical & dental insurance, $2000 CME; 2.5% 401k match

Earlier in the year I did 2 weeks of locums neurohospitalist work in a neighboring state that was exceptionally lucrative, generating $38,000 over the two weeks of inpatient call.

On target with paying off my medical school loans by 2/2021

Wow...

You are on target to make over 500k this year. Great job!

 

[Punydoc]

Take this with a pinch of salt, as I think this thread might self-select some "higher earners"

Graduated from name brand place, neurophys fellowship, epilepsy boarded.

Neuro-Hospitalist 7 on 7 off alternating week of days and nights. Week of nights can be done partly from home, week of days is rougher/high volume.
Pay: 373,000 w/ usual benefits (healthcare, malpractice, dental, 401k etc, 5k CME). 15k bonus per year if the whole group hits some target. I'm salaried. Consult only service, census typically 10-15/day (as high as 18-20) w/ 1 NP +/- 1 medicine resident.

1 week vacation (really 3 weeks since it's flanked by 2 weeks off). I can pick up extra shifts/make more if needed.

I've done some weeks of locums here and there which were pretty lucrative as well.

Sounds like I need to go back to Florida!

Also hopefully this thread doesn't generate the wrong kind of attention...

Just out curiosity, are these the average numbers for a neurohospitalist around your neck of the woods? Or is this due to some negotiation skills? I only ask because these numbers sound substantially higher than what I’m used to hearing. Regardless, more power to you 🙂

 

[Telamir]

It's not a major metropolitan area, if that's what you mean. It's a decent sized city.

For this area it might be more common, I'm not sure. I know plenty of docs here (even internists) who make more than that so...who knows.

That being said, I'm hearing of most outpatient gigs starting at 300, and a friend of mine got an academic outpatient gig at 330.

 

[johnwandering]

Neurohospitalist position in LA

Annual 275,000 of 7 on/7 off consult only day time shifts (no night responsibilities), volume around 6-8 new consults a day with similar number of follow ups.
There are 2 neurologists in the hospital: stroke attending attending to all the stroke and the neurohospitalist.
Option to cover night time home tele-stroke call for extra 800 a night (covering just 3-4 a month, easily brings me above 300; if ambitious could cover a lot more).

 

[Cone774411]

Just another perspective but I feel like many of these numbers being thrown around are in the +90 percentile. I think MGMA and AAN data would support this (I know for a fact MGMA does). As someone who went through the process only 2 years ago and applied to a MCOL suburban area with multiple well-funded desperate groups "bidding" the numbers were high but well north of 400K. This is also consistent with my peers.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Just another perspective but I feel like many of these numbers being thrown around are in the +90 percentile. I think MGMA and AAN data would support this (I know for a fact MGMA does). As someone who went through the process only 2 years ago and applied to a MCOL suburban area with multiple well-funded desperate groups "bidding" the numbers were high but well north of 400K. This is also consistent with my peers.

Is that for inpatient or outpatient? Average case load?

Thanks

 

[Punydoc]

Just another perspective but I feel like many of these numbers being thrown around are in the +90 percentile. I think MGMA and AAN data would support this (I know for a fact MGMA does). As someone who went through the process only 2 years ago and applied to a MCOL suburban area with multiple well-funded desperate groups "bidding" the numbers were high but well north of 400K. This is also consistent with my peers.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly. Are you saying that even though MGMA and AAN numbers indicate that $400K+ earners are +90th percentile, but in reality neurologists/neurohospitalists in your area are earning that much on average?
Also, may I ask what region of the country are you based in?

 

[Cone774411]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly. Are you saying that even though MGMA and AAN numbers indicate that $400K+ earners are +90th percentile, but in reality neurologists/neurohospitalists in your area are earning that much on average?
Also, may I ask what region of the country are you based in?

What I'm saying is that if one were to read this thread they might get the incorrect assumption that a 400k+ salary is normal or the average. In the northeast (caveat being this is the lowest area of salary) the median salary for an established neurologist is around 320k and for a new physician 260k.

 

[Cone774411]

Is that for inpatient or outpatient? Average case load?

Thanks

A mixture of both but primarily outpatient. I see around 15 patients a day on average.

 

[Telamir]

What I'm saying is that if one were to read this thread they might get the incorrect assumption that a 400k+ salary is normal or the average. In the northeast (caveat being this is the lowest area of salary) the median salary for an established neurologist is around 320k and for a new physician 260k.

Like I said, I believed the thread would’ve been skewed towards the higher side, and to take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Neurogeneral]

I work in a Midwest city for a large health system. Non-academic position. I do pretty much everything (outpatient, inpatient, EMG, and EEG) on a daily basis. Hospital call is q2. I make about $330,000/yr (excluding benefits, CME, etc).

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I work in a Midwest city for a large health system. Non-academic position. I do pretty much everything (outpatient, inpatient, EMG, and EEG) on a daily basis. Hospital call is q2. I make about $330,000/yr (excluding benefits, CME, etc).

Thanks for sharing. How many pts do you see per day? Do you work M-F? Is the Q2 call from home or do you have to go in?

 

[Atlas1496]

I’ve been on the hunt in the south east and have seen 300k being a pretty routine base salary w the offer of productivity bonus. I’ve also seen some productivity based pay w people earning upwards of 700k (but with drastically different lifestyles as you might assume)

 

[xenotype]

I work in a Midwest city for a large health system. Non-academic position. I do pretty much everything (outpatient, inpatient, EMG, and EEG) on a daily basis. Hospital call is q2. I make about $330,000/yr (excluding benefits, CME, etc).

Average to a little above average pay with awful call. Many of the posted jobs have q4-6 call posted which is uncompensated. Unacceptable to me- the hospitals should be forced to pay for teleneurology coverage rather than their outpatient groups being forced to provide it for free. Any tips from those more experienced on avoiding these arrangements? I don't want to not be a team player but getting woken up by the ED for every dizzy patient all night and not getting paid for it would be very frustrating.

 

[DocMom1]

Average to a little above average pay with awful call. Many of the posted jobs have q4-6 call posted which is uncompensated. Unacceptable to me- the hospitals should be forced to pay for teleneurology coverage rather than their outpatient groups being forced to provide it for free. Any tips from those more experienced on avoiding these arrangements? I don't want to not be a team player but getting woken up by the ED for every dizzy patient all night and not getting paid for it would be very frustrating.

The terms of your contract are not fixed and can (should) be negotiated. If you're unhappy with what they're offering, tell them why it doesn't work for you and what arrangement you would prefer. Many doctors unfortunately have a hard time learning that they are not indentured servants.

 

[cerebral edema]

Average to a little above average pay with awful call. Many of the posted jobs have q4-6 call posted which is uncompensated. Unacceptable to me- the hospitals should be forced to pay for teleneurology coverage rather than their outpatient groups being forced to provide it for free. Any tips from those more experienced on avoiding these arrangements? I don't want to not be a team player but getting woken up by the ED for every dizzy patient all night and not getting paid for it would be very frustrating.

IMO, 330k$ is unacceptable for q2 inpatient/outpatient coverage unless the service is perpetually dead. Or maybe it’s a very desirable location?

I’m interviewing for jobs now and most of the hospital systems seem to be involving tele-neurology coverage for nights moreso then when I interviewed a few years ago. Neurology has one of the highest burn out rates and stroke call has a lot to do with it. For physician retention & career longevity there needs to be respite at night for practitioners who work the day. That has been my experience, at least.

 

[DocMom1]

IMO, 330k$ is unacceptable for q2 inpatient/outpatient coverage unless the service is perpetually dead. Or maybe it’s a very desirable location?

I’m interviewing for jobs now and most of the hospital systems seem to be involving tele-neurology coverage for nights moreso then when I interviewed a few years ago. Neurology has one of the highest burn out rates and stroke call has a lot to do with it. For physician retention & career longevity there needs to be respite at night for practitioners who work the day. That has been my experience, at least.

Agreed

 

[neurologist]

Hospital call is q2.

You gotta be kidding.
If anyone told me that would be my call schedule, I'd laugh in their face and walk out no matter how much they were gonna pay me.

 

[DocMom1]

You gotta be kidding.
If anyone told me that would be my call schedule, I'd laugh in their face and walk out no matter how much they were gonna pay me.

Agreed. Know your worth and don't let yourself be taken advantage of.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

As a resident, I really don't have a good point of reference.

What is considered an appropriate (busy but not overwhelming) patient load for an outpatient job? What about hospital calls, how frequent is considered appropriate?

 

[chocomorsel]

There isn't a lot of transparency regarding salary/benefits for those on the neurology job search. This allows employers unfair advantages in contract negotiations due to information asymmetries (see Ramachandran, Gowri. "Pay transparency." Penn St. L. Rev.116 (2011): 1043; Estlund, Cynthia. "Extending the case for workplace transparency to information about pay and benefits." UC Irvine L. Rev. 4 (2014): 781]. I saw this style survey in another thread and thought it could help shed light on norms for those entering the job search

Anyone on the job search or currently working, please post salary info and job setup.

Here's my recent situation (recent residency graduate from mid-tier program, not fellowship trained, recently changed positions after a competing hospital recruited me)

Base $435,000 [neurohospitalist 7 on 7 off, Central Florida]; no night call; no outpatient clinic.
4 weeks vacation
Productivity bonus can be worth $50-100,000 depending on RVUs generated, I am on target to earn a 75K bonus.
Benefits include malpractice insurance, medical & dental insurance, $2000 CME; 2.5% 401k match

Earlier in the year I did 2 weeks of locums neurohospitalist work in a neighboring state that was exceptionally lucrative, generating $38,000 over the two weeks of inpatient call.

On target with paying off my medical school loans by 2/2021

What are they paying CCM docs? And what was their initial offer to you?
Asking for a friend

 

[Splenda88]

Agreed. Know your worth and don't let yourself be taken advantage of.

People and physicians in particular are notorious on not sharing their compensation or salary... Almost everyone after residency is entering the market with blind eyes, so it makes prefect sense for some employers to take advantage of some of us.

Being on call Q2 in IM would be quick trip to the burnout land. My guess it's even worse for neuro since most physicians are quick to consult/call neuro for everything.

 

[Neurogeneral]

Thanks for sharing. How many pts do you see per day? Do you work M-F? Is the Q2 call from home or do you have to go in?

I see about 5-6 inpatients (mix of new and follow ups), 5-6 scheduled outpatients, and 4 EMGs per day. As well as some routine EEGs and an occasional long term. I work Monday to Friday and see patients in the hospital every other weekend.

ER and practice call is every other week. Call is taken from home at night.

I think that the total number of patients I see and calls from the ER are not excessive from a quantity standpoint but I feel that I do a lot of things every day. This means changing gears frequently and going back and forth between sites. And only getting 4 days off in a month doesn’t help.

It’s my first job out of fellowship. They were disingenuous about the call schedule when I was interviewing (was told that it was going to be q5 instead of q2). Maybe I was naive. Suffice to say, my three year contract will be up this year and I am looking for another job.

I wouldn’t say that I live in a desirable city.

 

[Neurogeneral]

My advice for those fresh out of training:

Always ask very specific and direct questions during the recruitment process for aspects of the job that are important to you. For instance, all places will say call is q4 or whatever but that may or may not mean you are working every fourth weekend or rounding on inpatients every fourth week. Try to get an idea of your possible future colleagues. If you can, try to spend time with them in their clinic or doing rounds to see how they practice neurology.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I see about 5-6 inpatients (mix of new and follow ups), 5-6 scheduled outpatients, and 4 EMGs per day. As well as some routine EEGs and an occasional long term. I work Monday to Friday and see patients in the hospital every other weekend

ER and practice call is every other week. Call is taken from home at night.

I think that the total number of patients I see and calls from the ER are not excessive from a quantity standpoint but I feel that I do a lot of things every day. This means changing gears frequently and going back and forth between sites. And only getting 4 days off in a month doesn’t help.

It’s my first job out of fellowship. They were disingenuous about the call schedule when I was interviewing (was told that it was going to be q5 instead of q2). Maybe I was naive. Suffice to say, my three year contract will be up this year and I am looking for another job.

I wouldn’t say that I live in a desirable city.

Thank you for the clarification.

I assume you are neurophys trained?

The patient load is not too bad compared to what some of the PP neurologists tell me (though your encounters seem to be dense in RVUs given the number of procedures you are doing). However, like you said, it does look like you’re constantly changing switching hats. Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing.

I still feel you’re being under compensated for committing yourself every other week. Hopefully, they are paying you a generous bonus on top of your base.

 

[Neurogeneral]

Thank you for the clarification.

I assume you are neurophys trained?

The patient load is not too bad compared to what some of the PP neurologists tell me (though your encounters seem to be dense in RVUs given the number of procedures you are doing). However, like you said, it does look like you’re constantly changing switching hats. Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing.

I still feel you’re being under compensated for committing yourself every other week. Hopefully, they are paying you a generous bonus on top of your base.

yes neurophys trained.

 

[NeuroAP86]

My previous job (out of fellowship) was inpatient/outpatient private practice with Q5 week call between 2 hospitals (no stroke call, census was 10-15 with average of 5 new consults per day) with clinic patients/EMG for a couple hours in the afternoon. Location is suburbs of large Midwest city.

RVU target was ~500 per month/6000 per year and starting salary was 250k per year with partner in the group after 2 years with base + RVU bonus. I quickly learned that I was underpaid compared to people around my area and found a different job. My current job is in academic medicine so lower salary but better work life balance for the most part.

 

[BoneWizard]

My previous job (out of fellowship) was inpatient/outpatient private practice with Q5 week call between 2 hospitals (no stroke call, census was 10-15 with average of 5 new consults per day) with clinic patients/EMG for a couple hours in the afternoon. Location is suburbs of large Midwest city.

RVU target was ~500 per month/6000 per year and starting salary was 250k per year with partner in the group after 2 years with base + RVU bonus. I quickly learned that I was underpaid compared to people around my area and found a different job. My current job is in academic medicine so lower salary but better work life balance for the most part.

Isn't the starting pay low as a "buy-in" for partnership though?

 

[sharkbaitwhohaha]

sometimes. Sometimes not and theres a larger buy at at the entry to partnership

 

[NeuroAP86]

Isn't the starting pay low as a "buy-in" for partnership though?

It can be but after talking to others who were nearing the 2 year period and being offered partner deals, it was not very good. By this I mean a lower base and higher targets. This specific group has lost a lot of physicians in multiple specialties over the last several years due comp going down.

 

[Epic786]

OP setting with no call. 285K. 12 patients/day.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

OP setting with no call. 285K. 12 patients/day.

That’s actually a pretty good deal. The more I advance in my training, the more I realize that it’s not about the absolute number you make. It’s about the amount you earn per quanta of work.

 

[Splenda88]

OP setting with no call. 285K. 12 patients/day.

I just don't understand the discrepancies in physicians' job offers. I have people in my program who signed hospitalist contract that require them to have 20-25 encounters daily for ~300K/year while there are few who have offers that also pay them ~300k for 12-15 encounters.

 

[9732doc]

For academic compensation, this might be helpful

https://jfr.uams.edu/help_docs/46.xlsx

MGMA 2017 Academic Total Compensation

 

[DocMom1]

I just don't understand the discrepancies in physicians' job offers. I have people in my program who signed hospitalist contract that require them to have 20-25 encounters daily for ~300K/year while there are few who have offers that also pay them ~300k for 12-15 encounters.

There is wide variation depending on practice location and style, and needs/frugality of the department; however, over the past couple years salaries have been rising at a meteoric rate from what I have seen outside of big-city academic centers (which will soon catch up due to increased attrition of skilled faculty to more generous and lifestyle friendly job opportunities in clinical and biopharma spaces).

 

[DocMom1]

For academic compensation, this might be helpful

https://jfr.uams.edu/help_docs/46.xlsx

MGMA 2017 Academic Total Compensation

Helpful but outdated (salaries have blossomed over the past couple years)

 

[Epic786]

There is wide variation depending on practice location and style, and needs/frugality of the department; however, over the past couple years salaries have been rising at a meteoric rate from what I have seen outside of big-city academic centers (which will soon catch up due to increased attrition of skilled faculty to more generous and lifestyle friendly job opportunities in clinical and biopharma spaces).

Also it depends if you have residents or mid levels that help you out and clinic support staff. If you are seeing 18-25 patients a day by your self, you will not find anytime for your self.
I think neurology is also getting saturated in stroke and epilepsy.

 

[Epic786]

Another friend mentioned that NC outpatient job with q4 call— 18-20 patients a day.. above 450k.

 

[Epic786]

Can we create a poll?

 

[DocMom1]

Can we create a poll?

Good idea

 

[drdecaf]

Just want to add that residents greatly appreciate fresh attendings sharing this info! <3

 

[DocMom1]

In 2019, the average neurologist generated $2,052,884 in revenue for hospital, more than justifying recent increases seen in salaries, according to this MH survey https://www.merritthawkins.com/uploadedFiles/MerrittHawkins_RevenueSurvey_2019.pdf